To the only God our Savior

[Matthias]

I don't want to go into this but to show @Matthias he might want to reread the Sages and scholars-Jewish scholars and what THEY are saying since most of this information is concealed from the average Christian.

Not only this, I have my own Jewish Bible and know the difference between yachid and echad.

God bless.

Johann.

I appreciate that. I’ve read and re-read them. I’m sure I’ll read them again. For the past two years my attention has been primarily focused on reading the Ante-Nicene Church Fathers.

The Messiah’s God is echad; the echad elohim of the Bible.

 

[David in NJ]

Thank you. It never ceases to amaze me when people say that what I say about myself isn’t true. Your comment is refreshing.



Those of them who believed that Jesus is the Messiah whom their God had promised and raised up did. Those who didn’t believe Jesus is the Messiah whom their God promised and raised up didn’t.

As we see, Jewish monotheism alone isn’t enough. Without the belief that a fellow Jewish monotheist (Jesus of Nazareth) is the Messiah, the Jewish monotheist is unbelieving, disobedient, and cut off from the God of Jewish monotheism.



Certainly. John, like Jesus and all of the other apostles, is a believing and obedient Jewish monotheist.

I think it’s more than reasonable to read the writings of Jewish monotheists with the mind of believing Jewish monotheists.

Thank you. It never ceases to amaze me when people say that what I say about myself isn’t true. Your comment is refreshing.

Matthias,
You are so TRUE in this statement and like yourself, it irks me when others twist my words.

How much MORE will our Heavenly FATHER be seriously UPset with those who twist His Words.

Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.
Proverbs 30:5-6

Have a GREAT DAY in the FATHER, the SON and the HOLY SPIRIT Who are ONE

 

[Matthias]

THANK YOU @Matthias for your invitation to speak with you on here


No scripture in the NT says that the Word who became flesh was begotten by Yahweh/Lord

In Jewish monotheism it isn’t the word who became flesh. It is the word which was with Yahweh which became flesh. That occurred in time and place, as described in the birth narratives of Matthew 1 and Luke 1.

The overshadowing of the Father’s spirit is causal.

the Apostle John, a Jew of Elohim, KNEW who the Word was BEFORE HE came to earth, thus John wrote his Gospel in TRUTH
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He was in the beginning with God.

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His Glory,
the Glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of Grace and Truth.

There is no "Lord" that begot the only begotten Son of God here in the Gospel

There are THREE Elohim in the Gospel of TRUTH = FATHER/WORD/HOLY SPIRIT

@Johann will tell you that I recommend reading English translations of the prologue in John’s Gospel produced prior to 1611. They present a Jewish monotheistic understanding - John is speaking in the prologue about only one person, the Father.

You will disagree with that, and that’s fine. My purpose is to have your understanding (trinitarian) placed side by side with my understanding (Jewish monotheism) for comparison.

 

[Johann]

Thank you. It never ceases to amaze me when people say that what I say about myself isn’t true. Your comment is refreshing.



Those of them who believed that Jesus is the Messiah whom their God had promised and raised up did. Those who didn’t believe Jesus is the Messiah whom their God promised and raised up didn’t.

As we see, Jewish monotheism alone isn’t enough. Without the belief that a fellow Jewish monotheist (Jesus of Nazareth) is the Messiah, the Jewish monotheist is unbelieving, disobedient, and cut off from the God of Jewish monotheism.



Certainly. John, like Jesus and all of the other apostles, is a believing and obedient Jewish monotheist.

I think it’s more than reasonable to read the writings of Jewish monotheists with the mind of believing Jewish monotheists.

I appreciate that. I’ve read and re-read them. I’m sure I’ll read them again. For the past two years my attention has been primarily focused on reading the Ante-Nicene Church Fathers.

The Messiah’s God is echad; the echad elohim of the Bible.

Forgetting-

Bereshis (in the Beginning) was the Dvar Hashem [YESHAYAH 55:11; BERESHIS 1:1], and the Dvar Hashem was agav (along with) Hashem [MISHLE 8:30; 30:4], and the Dvar Hashem was nothing less, by nature, than Elohim! [Psa 56:11(10); Yn 17:5; Rev. 19:13]
Joh 1:2 Bereshis (in the Beginning) this Dvar Hashem was with Hashem [Prov 8:30].
Joh 1:3 All things through him came to be, and without him came to be not one thing which came into being. [Ps 33:6,9; Prov 30:4]

--and echad is not a numerically ONE @Matthias.

Since the last Apostle died Satan has been very busy to eradicate this very important verse-it stares us all in the face and yet we want to deny the truth of it.

Shalom.

J.

 

[Matthias]

Matthias,
You are so TRUE in this statement and like yourself, it irks me when others twist my words.

How much MORE will our Heavenly FATHER be seriously UPset with those who twist His Words.

Some do it intentionally, some do it unintentionally. I extend grace to all. (But it still amazes me - irks me a little, too - when it happens.)

Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.
Proverbs 30:5-6

Amen.

Have a GREAT DAY in the FATHER, the SON and the HOLY SPIRIT Who are ONE

Thank you. I wish you a good day as well.

 

[Matthias]

Forgetting-

Bereshis (in the Beginning) was the Dvar Hashem [YESHAYAH 55:11; BERESHIS 1:1], and the Dvar Hashem was agav (along with) Hashem [MISHLE 8:30; 30:4], and the Dvar Hashem was nothing less, by nature, than Elohim! [Psa 56:11(10); Yn 17:5; Rev. 19:13]
Joh 1:2 Bereshis (in the Beginning) this Dvar Hashem was with Hashem [Prov 8:30].
Joh 1:3 All things through him came to be, and without him came to be not one thing which came into being. [Ps 33:6,9; Prov 30:4]

--and echad is not a numerically ONE @Matthias.

Every Jewish schoolchild knows that echad is numerically one. When that is denied - and that is what trinitarianism does, you’ve just demonstrated it for our readers - then, and only then, can the Messiah’s own creedal belief be altered.

The creed of Jesus, the creed of Judaism, my creed, is unitarian.

Since the last Apostle died Satan has been very busy to eradicate this very important verse-it stares us all in the face and yet we want to deny the truth of it.

Shalom.

J.

 

[Johann]

Every Jewish schoolchild knows that echad is numerically one.

Your argument is falling short @Matthias and I can again refer you to Jewish scholars that would agree with me and not with you-and they are NOT Trinitarians.

So far you don't make a compelling case but steel man my case.

J.

 

[Matthias]

Your argument is falling short @Matthias and I can again refer you to Jewish scholars that would agree with me and not with you-and they are NOT Trinitarians.

I said earlier that Jewish mysticism comes close to trinitarianism but falls short. Some trinitarians point to Jewish mysticism as support for their theology. Jews For Jesus is an example of a group that does it.

So far you don't make a compelling case but steel man my case.

J.

No one should believe anything they aren’t persuaded is true.

My case stands on the Messiah, a Jewish monotheist.

1. The Messiah’s God is only one person, the Father. Why do you not find that compelling?

2. The Messiah’s God is Yahweh. Why do you not find that compelling?

3. The Messiah was begotten by his God and Father, Yahweh, in the womb of the virgin Mary, and the Messiah was born in Bethlehem, circa 4 BC. Why do you not find that compelling?

4. The Messiah, not Yahweh, was executed by the Romans, circa 33 AD. Why do you not find that compelling?

5. The Messiah, the lord of Psalm 110:1, not Yahweh, was resurrected from the dead and ascended to heaven, where he is sitting at the right hand of Yahweh. Why do you not find that compelling?

 

[David in NJ]

Every Jewish schoolchild knows that echad is numerically one. When that is denied - and that is what trinitarianism does, you’ve just demonstrated it for our readers - then, and only then, can the Messiah’s own creedal belief be altered.

The creed of Jesus, the creed of Judaism, my creed, is unitarian.

Echad is used in the Shema to show to Israel that Elohim is Plural but ONE/ECHAD

Echad is used when there is a SINGLE UNIT that is comprised of more then one item in that UNIT

Yachid is purely as 'singular'

Thus, there is at least one Jew in Hell gnashing his teeth in pain for changing the Shema from 'Echad' to 'yachid'

More TRUTH of the TRIUNE Elohim comes directly from the LORD Himself.
In this passage of TRUTH, that came out of the Mouth of God, we CLEARLY see the Echad of the FATHER and the SON
according to Genesis and the Prophets.

Now it was the Feast of Dedication in Jerusalem, and it was winter. And Jesus walked in the temple, in Solomon’s porch.
Then the Jews surrounded Him and said to Him, “How long do You keep us in doubt? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly.”

Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me.
But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.
My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.
I and My Father are one.”

 

[APAK]

The Trinity-or Triune Godhead is biblical and likewise, I like you.


Col_2:9 For in Him the whole fullness of Deity (the Godhead) continues to dwell in bodily form [giving complete expression of the divine nature].

Col_2:10 And you N1are in Him, made full and having come to fullness of life [in Christ you too are filled with the Godhead--Father, Son and Holy Spirit--and reach full spiritual stature]. And He is the Head of all rule and authority [of every angelic principality and power].

Heb_1:9 You have loved righteousness [You have delighted in integrity, virtue, and uprightness in purpose, thought, and action] and You have hated lawlessness (injustice and iniquity). Therefore God, [even] Your God (N1Godhead), has anointed You with the oil of exultant joy and gladness above and beyond Your companions. [Psa_45:6-7]
AMPC


Cognate with Theos , there are three other words to be noted :
1. Theotes , rendered "Deity", and used of Christ. Occurs only in Col_2:9, and has relation to the Godhead personally ; while

2. Theiotes , rendered "Deity" also, is Deity in the abstract . Occurs only in Rom_1:20.

3. Theios , rendered "Divine", and is used of Christ. Occurs only in 2Pe_1:3; 2Pe_1:4; and, with the Article, in Act_17:29, where it is rendered "Godhead". Gr. = that which [is] Divine.

Shalom

J.

The Trinity/Triune 'godhead' is actually not truly Biblical; it came in late to the party.

Godhead (or godhood) refers to the divine nature essence or the one substance (ousia) of the one Father God. This nature cannot be given out to anyone else, only shared. It is an intrinsic feature of himself, just like his word, as it is also shared through/in his Son.

The word Godhead replaced the word divinity in many later translations of the NT because of the Trinity/Triunity bias.

In Col 2:9 Jesus was special in that the divine nature of his Father dwelt within him. This does not mean that the man and human being Jesus was also divine, or somehow infected and became divine because of his Father's influence within his spirit and mind. No, Jesus did however carry his Father's divine characteristics with him in his life.

(Murdock) in whom dwelleth all the fullness of the Divinity corporeally.
(NEV) For in him, in a bodily form, dwells all the fullness of all that God stands for;
(CEV) God lives fully in Christ.
(KJV) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

As a true believer in Christ we also inherit and are filled (with the Father's divine characteristics/attributes) with/by the spirit of Christ, given by the Father, even in this corrupted human state (Col 2:10a). We, just like the man Jesus are not however divine.

(LSV) and you are made full in Him, who is the head of all principality and authority,
(KJV) And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
(CEV) And you are fully grown because you belong to Christ, who is over every power and authority.

 

[Johann]

And the Messiah preexisted with YHWH BEFORE His incarnation, why don't YOU find that compelling?! Right there in Genesis 1.1!

Again--
Jewish recognition of a TrinitySF
BySeth Fitzgerald
General Topics

As an introduction to this paper, let me be very clear. I am by no means an Orthodox Jew, nor do I partake in any sect of Rabbinic Judaism, though I am Jewish. I am a Christian (not a Catholic). But before you read this and are immediately put off by this fact, allow me to take the opportunity to at the very least, show you my thoughts and findings.

It is a common belief among religious Jews alike that the doctrine of the Trinity is merely a Christian invention, and before the rise of Christianity, early Jews never thought of or even considered the idea of a multi-personal G-d, and only thought of G-d as being a completely unified single figure (Deuteronomy 6:4).

Christians either made up the Trinity to explain how Jesus revealed himself, or they stole it from the pagans. This, however, is simply untrue.

And if one took the time to carefully study early Jewish writings you'll find that indeed many Jewish authors struggled with the idea of three powers in the Tanakh who all seemed to be G-d.

I will publish more papers exclusively elaborating on the presence of the Trinity in the Tanakh alone, but I'll continue.
דברים ו׳:ד׳
(ד) שְׁמַ֖ע יִשְׂרָאֵ֑ל יְהֹוָ֥ה אֱלֹהֵ֖ינוּ יְהֹוָ֥ה ׀ אֶחָֽד׃
Deuteronomy 6:4
(4) Hear, O Israel! יהוה is our God, יהוה alone.

Many ancient Jews and Jewish scholars today recognize the fact that there seemed to be multiple powers in heaven. Jewish Scholar and Theologian Dr. Benjamin D. Sommer has stated in a lecture series on one of his published works The Bodies of God And the World of Ancient Israel that the concept of the Trinity isn't at all foreign to the Near East or in Judaism. In that lecture, he states:

"I'm actually rather uncomfortable with my own conclusion here, but as a Scholar, I got to call 'em as I see 'em..."
he goes on to say,

"...one of the conclusions that I came to, to my shock when I finished this book is that we Jews have no theological objection to the doctrine of the Trinity."

He goes on to explain that Kabbalistic texts, specifically Sefer HaBahir explains that the same concept appears in Jewish literature and mysticism. Even in a published paper by Hadar Cohen, simply titled Sefirot which in actuality is a quotation of the works by Rabbi David Seidenberg. He took the time to explain what they actually are, "God emanates ten vessels through which the world is created, called sefirot, which are both parts of God and created by God." Clearly, this concept functions in a monotheistic context, although there are slight differences between the two teachings.
ספר הבהיר קכ״ה
(קכה) ואמאי קרי ליה ספירות, משום דכתיב (תהלים י"ט ב) השמים מספרים כבוד אל:

Sefer HaBahir 125

What are the Sefirot?

The Sefirot – God emanates ten vessels through which the world is created, called sefirot, which are both part of God and created by God. These vessels are channels of light or water, and they also are light. They are God and of God, but they cannot define God or limit God – what is truly God is wholly beyond these descriptions, beyond the first sefirah, called Keter or crown, denoted by the term Ein Sof – without limit, without end.
_______
So as Dr. Benjamin D. Sommer points out, there are plenty of clear passages in the Tanakh where we see different "persons" or "powers" of G-d who are all distinct, yet still one G-d.

Early Jews wrote about this nature of G-d because they recognized it throughout the texts. To be fair, not all of them interpreted (or will interpret) these passages the same way a traditional Christian Trinitarian would.

But the point is that they do recognize the existence of other powers alongside G-d and multiple powers who are all called G-d (by the Divine Name).

This is written about in the Talmud: Sanhedrin 38b:19. The passage describes a debate between a "heretic" and Rav Idit regarding Exodus 24:1. The "heretic" argued that it is odd that G-d said "Come up to YHWH" instead of "Come up to me." Now the Rabbi in response could have simply said that G-d's usage of the third person is not unusual. But the Rabbi instead replies that G-d was actually speaking of a different "power." namely the Metatron, the highest of all angels (keep in mind the word "angel" simply means messenger, and does not by default imply a created being (see Genesis 32:3). The early Rabbis recognized that the Torah taught there were different figures called G-d (by the Divine Name). Then eight verses later in that same chapter in Exodus, the text makes it clear that they were in fact going up to G-d.
סנהדרין ל״ח ב:י״ט
אמר רב נחמן האי מאן דידע לאהדורי למינים כרב אידית ליהדר ואי לא לא ליהדר אמר ההוא מינא לרב אידית כתיב (שמות כד, א) ואל משה אמר עלה אל ה' עלה אלי מיבעי ליה א"ל זהו מטטרון ששמו כשם רבו דכתיב (שמות כג, כא) כי שמי בקרבו
Sanhedrin 38b:19

Rav Naḥman says: This one, i.e., any person, who knows how to respond to the heretics as effectively as Rav Idit should respond to them, but if he does not know, he should not respond to them. The Gemara relates: A certain heretic said to Rav Idit: It is written in the verse concerning God: “And to Moses He said: Come up to the Lord” (Exodus 24:1). The heretic raised a question: It should have stated: Come up to Me. Rav Idit said to him: This term, “the Lord,” in that verse is referring to the angel Metatron, whose name is like the name of his Master, as it is written: “Behold I send an angel before you to keep you in the way and to bring you to the place that I have prepared. Take heed of him and obey his voice; do not defy him; for he will not pardon your transgression, for My name is in him” (Exodus 23:20–21).
שמות כ״ד:א׳
(א) וְאֶל־מֹשֶׁ֨ה אָמַ֜ר עֲלֵ֣ה אֶל־יהוה אַתָּה֙ וְאַהֲרֹן֙ נָדָ֣ב וַאֲבִיה֔וּא וְשִׁבְעִ֖ים מִזִּקְנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵ֑ל וְהִשְׁתַּחֲוִיתֶ֖ם מֵרָחֹֽק׃
Exodus 24:1
(1) Then [God] said to Moses, “Come up to יהוה, with Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy elders of Israel, and bow low from afar.
שמות כ״ד:ט׳-י״ב
(ט) וַיַּ֥עַל מֹשֶׁ֖ה וְאַהֲרֹ֑ן נָדָב֙ וַאֲבִיה֔וּא וְשִׁבְעִ֖ים מִזִּקְנֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵֽל׃ (י) וַיִּרְא֕וּ אֵ֖ת אֱלֹהֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵ֑ל וְתַ֣חַת רַגְלָ֗יו כְּמַעֲשֵׂה֙ לִבְנַ֣ת הַסַּפִּ֔יר וּכְעֶ֥צֶם הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם לָטֹֽהַר׃ (יא) וְאֶל־אֲצִילֵי֙ בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א שָׁלַ֖ח יָד֑וֹ וַֽיֶּחֱזוּ֙ אֶת־הָ֣אֱלֹהִ֔ים וַיֹּאכְל֖וּ וַיִּשְׁתּֽוּ׃ {ס} (יב) וַיֹּ֨אמֶר יהוה אֶל־מֹשֶׁ֗ה עֲלֵ֥ה אֵלַ֛י הָהָ֖רָה וֶהְיֵה־שָׁ֑ם וְאֶתְּנָ֨ה לְךָ֜ אֶת־לֻחֹ֣ת הָאֶ֗בֶן וְהַתּוֹרָה֙ וְהַמִּצְוָ֔ה אֲשֶׁ֥ר כָּתַ֖בְתִּי לְהוֹרֹתָֽם׃

Exodus 24:9-12
(9) Then Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy elders of Israel ascended; (10) and they saw the God of Israel—under whose feet was the likeness of a pavement of sapphire, like the very sky for purity. (11) Yet [God] did not raise a hand against the leaders of the Israelites; they beheld God, and they ate and drank. (12) יהוה said to Moses, “Come up to Me on the mountain and wait there, and I will give you the stone tablets with the teachings and commandments which I have inscribed to instruct them.”
On top of this, other than the alleged Metatron. Early Jews also knew and recognized the existence of someone known as the "Holy Spirit" interceding between G-d and Israel. Dr. Michael L. Brown (another Jewish Scholar and Theologian) says:
"Lamentations Rabbah 3:60, 9 relates after the Roman emperor Hadrian indiscriminately executed two Jews, the Holy Spirit kept crying out, "You have seen, O LORD, the wrong done to me. Uphold my cause! You have seen the depth of their vengeance, all their plots against me" (Lamentations 3:59-60). This provides an example of the Spirit making intercession. According to Leviticus Rabbah 6:1, the Holy Spirit is a defense counsel who speaks to Israel on behalf of the Lord and then speaks to the Lord on behalf of Israel. In all these citations, which can be easily multiplied (see, e.g., Genesis Rabbah 84:11; Song of Songs Rabbah 8:16; Lamentations Rabbah 1:48), there can be no question that we are dealing with a "who" and not just with a "what," with a personal dimension of God and not just with an impersonal power, with God himself and yet with a "separate" entity who can mediate between God and man. And these citations closely parallel some of the New Testament descriptions of the Holy Spirit, although virtually all the Rabbinic texts cited were written many years later."

Early and modern Jewish scholars have wrestled with the fact that the scriptures teach that there is only one G-d. But there are three distinct figures who all seem to be G-d.

Thus we can see that the doctrine of the Trinity came out of the Jewish scriptures, it was not an idea stolen from pagans or made up by Christians, but revealed from what Jesus taught of himself and what the Jewish scriptures had already established.

Jewish recognition of a Trinity | Sefaria

www.sefaria.org

Deal with this man, don't jump around and echad is NOT a numerical one. Yachid is.

J.

 

[APAK]

You want to focus on just one solitary verse? Fine, I agree-can you agree with this verse? The only one pushing an agenda here is you, @APAK. Instead of letting the Scriptures speak for themselves, you’re trying to reinterpret them through the lens of your own philosophies.


"And Jesus our great God and Savior"
"And"

Conjunction: This connects the phrase to a preceding clause or sentence, implying that "Jesus" is included with something else that has been stated, likely referring to "God" or another subject previously mentioned.
"Jesus"

Proper noun: This is the subject of the phrase, referring specifically to Jesus Christ. It is the name of the person being described or identified.
"our"

Possessive pronoun: This modifies "Jesus" by indicating that He is personally related to the speaker and the listeners. In this case, it shows possession or belonging, making the phrase personal to the audience. It modifies both "great God" and

"Savior."
"great"

Adjective: This modifies "God," emphasizing the greatness of Jesus. It qualifies Jesus as not just a God, but a great God, implying His supreme nature or status.

"God"

Noun: This is the first predicate noun, indicating the divine nature or essence of Jesus. It is describing who Jesus is in terms of His identity, not just a human being but fully God.
In this case, it is part of a double-barreled title that stresses the deity of Jesus.

"and"

Coordinating conjunction: This connects "God" and "Savior," making both titles applicable to Jesus. It emphasizes that Jesus holds both titles simultaneously.

"Savior"

Noun: This is the second predicate noun, further describing Jesus' role and function. It denotes Jesus' role as the one who saves or rescues. Here, "Savior" reinforces the salvific function of Jesus alongside His identity as "God."
Summary of Grammatical Breakdown:
The phrase "And Jesus our great God and Savior" is composed of a subject (Jesus), a possessive pronoun ("our"), and two predicate nouns ("great God" and "Savior") connected by a conjunction ("and").
"Great" serves as an adjective modifying "God," emphasizing the magnitude of Jesus' divinity.
"God and Savior" work together as compound titles describing the full nature and role of Jesus.
The possessive pronoun "our" personalizes the phrase, linking the speaker and audience to Jesus.

Anyone home?

J.

So, pushing aside all this clutter of yours once more, what do you think of the verse you agreed to address this time and still did not...

--------------let me refresh your memory of the OP------------------
“to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.”

(Jude 1:25, NASB)

Who is “the only God our Savior” in this verse?

--------------

 

[Matthias]

Echad is used in the Shema to sho wto Israel that Elohim is Plural but ONE/ECHAD

I believe Jesus’ affirmation of the Shema shows us that he is a Jewish monotheist, that his elohim is singular, the one God, his Father.

Echad is used when there is more then unit that is comprised of more then one item in that unit

Echad can modify a collective noun. For example, one team. There is no plurality in “one”, the plurality is found in “team”. Echad is the numeral 1.

Yachid is purely as 'singular'

It is singular but it isn’t ever used in scripture to describe the Messiah’s God.

Thus, there is at least one Jew in Hell gnashing his teeth in pain for changing the Shema from 'Echad' to 'yachid'

I would locate him in the grave. The actual Hebrew word is undeniably echad. Anyone who is able to read Hebrew could confirm this simple fact.

More TRUTH of the TRIUNE Elohim comes directly from the LORD Himself.
In this passage of TRUTH, that came out of the Mouth of God, we CLEARLY see the Echad of the FATHER and the SON
according to Genesis and the Prophets.

Now it was the Feast of Dedication in Jerusalem, and it was winter. And Jesus walked in the temple, in Solomon’s porch.
Then the Jews surrounded Him and said to Him, “How long do You keep us in doubt? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly.”

Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me.
But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.
My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.
I and My Father are one.”

Yahweh and Jesus are one, not in person or being, but in agreement and purpose. Yahweh is the Messiah’s God. He does the will of his God.

Trinitarianism teaches us that Jesus is not a human person. Jewish monotheism teaches us that Jesus is a human person.

 

[Matthias]

Counting to ten in Hebrew.



The print in the chart is small but readable. The numeral 1 is echad.

Listen to her count to 10 in Hebrew. When she pronounces the numeral 1 she clearly says echad, not yachid.

Yahweh alone, by himself, is the 1 true God in the Bible.

 

[David in NJ]

I believe Jesus’ affirmation of the Shema shows us that he is a Jewish monotheist, that his elohim is singular, the one God, his Father.



Echad can modify a collective noun. For example, one team. There is no plurality in “one”, the plurality is in ”team”. Echad is the numeral 1.



It is singular but it isn’t ever used in scripture to describe the Messiah’s God.



I would locate him in the grave. The actual Hebrew word is undeniably echad. Anyone who is able to read Hebrew could confirm this simple fact.



Yahweh and Jesus are one, not in person or being, but in agreement and purpose.

The phrase Lord God is comprised of Two Individuals who are Echad and therefore only Singular Identity is Spoken

This is the Foundation of Truth from Genesis 1:1-3 = Elohim / Spirit / Word
3 verses with the IDENTITY of THREE as Echad

the OT Jew, the Apostle John, was fluent in Hebrew BEYOND any Jew today, in both deciphering of language content/meaning and in Spirit Understanding of such Scriptural content/meaning

Thus the Gospel of John BEGINS as Genesis BEGINS =THREE Who are ECHAD

Genesis chapter 1 declares the THREE and the Gospel VERIFIES, as in a Eternal Court of LAW, Who the THREE Witnesses Are

We who Know the only true God and Jesus Christ whom HE sent were given only One Way, One Truth and One Life to which to Enter into the Kingdom = JESUS/the Word that was God

Can you see the THREE in the statement above???
THEY are mentioned twice in BOLD

 

[David in NJ]

Counting to ten in Hebrew.

View attachment 54818

The print in the chart is small but readable. The numeral 1 is echad.

Listen to her count to 10 in Hebrew. When she pronounces the numeral 1 she clearly says echad, not yachid.

Yahweh alone, by himself, is the 1 true God in the Bible.

Jewish montheists are UNCLEAN before the High Priest of God and are darkened in their understanding of Elohim

And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?”

11He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 13Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:

‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;
15For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should heal them.’

 

[Matthias]

The phrase Lord God is comprised of Two Individuals who are Echad and therefore only Singular Identity is Spoken

This is the Foundation of Truth from Genesis 1:1-3 = Elohim / Spirit / Word
3 verses with the IDENTITY of THREE as Echad

the OT Jew, the Apostle John, was fluent in Hebrew BEYOND any Jew today, in both deciphering of language content/meaning and in Spirit Understanding of such Scriptural content/meaning

Thus the Gospel of John BEGINS as Genesis BEGINS =THREE Who are ECHAD

Genesis chapter 1 declares the THREE and the Gospel VERIFIES, as in a Eternal Court of LAW, Who the THREE Witnesses Are

We who Know the only true God and Jesus Christ whom HE sent were given only One Way, One Truth and One Life to which to Enter into the Kingdom = JESUS/the Word that was God

Can you see the THREE in the statement above???
THEY are mentioned twice in BOLD

I’m a primitive Christian now but there was a time when I was a trinitarian. I once offered the same understanding to others that you are now offering to me.

When I see Father, Son and Spirit in close proximity I see a triad, not the Trinity.

 

[APAK]

Post 15 AGAIN directly addresses the OP with TRUTH from the Mouth of God

Ok you didn't address the OP in post 15 David..I guess you think your obsession with 3 parts/persons in the term Elohim suffices then as the truth?

So where did you arrive at 3 parts for Elohim if is can be seen as a plural noun? Why 3, why not 2, 4 or more. And why do they have to be persons. Pluralizing in Hebrew can also mean magnification or exaggeration, or of immense power.

It's because of your Trinity bias I suspect and you are blind to see anything else in scripture today at least.

So what do you think of the verse in the OP.
-----------------------------------
“to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.”

(Jude 1:25, NASB)

Who is “the only God our Savior” in this verse?

 

[Matthias]

Jewish montheists are UNCLEAN before the High Priest of God and are darkened in their understanding of Elohim

The prophets, the Messiah, the apostles, the earliest Christians are all Jewish monotheists.

And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?”

11He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 13Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:

‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;
15For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should heal them.’

Some Jewish monotheists saw, heard, understood, repented and were forgiven. The apostles are prime examples of this. Most Jewish monotheists saw but didn’t see, heard but didn’t hear, didn’t understand and didn’t repent. They weren’t forgiven.

What we see in the earthly ministry of Jesus is almost exclusively a Jewish monotheism affair. Jewish monotheists were on both sides of the argument.

 

[David in NJ]

I’m a primitive Christian now but there was a time when I was a trinitarian. I once offered the same understanding to others that you are now offering to me.

When I see Father, Son and Spirit in close proximity I see a triad, not the Trinity.

What's a 'trinitarian' ???

triad /trī′ăd″, -əd/

noun​

1. A group of three.
2. A chord of three tones, especially one built on a given root tone plus a major or minor third and a perfect fifth.
3. A section of a Pindaric ode consisting of the strophe, antistrophe, and epode.

triune /trī′yoo͞n″/

adjective​

1. Being three in one. Used especially of the Christian Trinity.
2. Being three in one; -- an epithet used to express the unity of a trinity of persons in the Godhead.
3. Threefold, having three components that are both separate and united; said especially of the Trinity of Christian doctrine.

TRIUNE is the ELOHIM of Genesis = "Let Us make man in Our image according to Our likeness"

TRIUNE is 100% TRUTH and here is how you @Matthias can KNOW

Elohim/THREE made man into ONE IMAGE of Elohim/Plural

Therefore, in the Court of Heaven, this TRUTH has already been established for us to believe/trust/obey.