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Ronald David Bruno

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So everyone who does these generous caring and beneficial works helping the poor and orphans opens the Door to Heaven for us?
I didn't say that. But "by their fruit, you will know them". Love, joy, peace, hope, faith, kindness, goodness, self control, patience. A Christian demonstrates at least some of this fruit and eventually all as he/she matures.
I was just giving examples of their love and works to help people. I did NOT say that "works" get you saved. Salvation is by faith alone. And I know Catholics have a faith plus works belief. But that does not invalidate their faith in Christ. You have to believe in Christ first, then the Holy Spirit works through you, as He has prepared works, then fruit comes in many forms. Spiritual gifts are given and so we see all contribute to the Body and all the good done comes from God.
So as a Protestant, I look at Catholics as brothers and sisters ( had many in my Italian family)..I just disagree with several of their doctrines, positions, church rituals and liturgy etc. etc. I have attended their churches on occasion , masses, marriages, funerals many times. I don't fit in, but don't feel the presense of Satan ... and I do have the gift of discernment of spirits btw Their worship is acceptable, sacraments and if you just listen to the 15 minutes of the sermon _ in English _ it's undeniably Biblical. . I cannot see darkness and Satan leading them or the Pope as the Antichrist, an absurd continuous rant by Amigo de Christo and his alter ego, Marvelloustime.
 
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amigo de christo

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In Genesis He was the only God.
And HOW did GOD create . HE SPOKE and it was . And who did paul say created all things
GOD , CHRIST . THE WORD is the very essence of GOD , it is life and it is truth as GOD is life and is truth .
GOD created all things THROUGH HIS WORD . isnt that lovely . NOW let all that draws breath praise the LORD
and never once heed men who have altered bibles and or twisted doctrines to create another image of they own god
cause that god cannot save and it do DENY THE GOD .
 
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amigo de christo

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Scripture also says the fear of the Lord is the beginning of..................
Wisdom .
The fear of man is a snare to the soul .
Many go after men who warn of and expose and even hate false doctrine .
and often call them judgers and haters .
But lets see what GOD told a church .
BUT THIS YOU HAVE , YOU HATE the doctrine of the nicolations which i also hate . BELIEVE me when i say
GOD HATES INTERFAITH and its LIE . And ME DOES TOO . It Trods Christ under foot and it will save none .
 
J

Johann

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Amen. The JW's seem to use a weak, sickly, watered down translation that was made to support the false doctrines of their cult.
And so are the earlier bible translations-

"a god" (Schulz):
This rendering introduces polytheism and misinterprets the anarthrous Θεὸς.

b. "godlike sort" (Schneider):
The phrase "godlike" diminishes the Word's nature, reducing Him to a creature with divine qualities rather than the uncreated God.

c. "divine" (Moffatt, Goodspeed, others):
While "divine" is closer, it remains imprecise in English. It can imply mere attributes, leaving room for heretical interpretations.

d. McKenzie's "a divine being":
McKenzie's translation reflects a philosophical interpretation rather than the theological intent of the text. It suggests a subordinate being, inconsistent with John's high Christology.

--all in an attempt to diminish the Deity of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ @Lizbeth


Was Jesus God?

The answer of the Bible is an unqualified “Yes!” The Bible teaches that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Spirit are one, and yet they are three. Note these statements from Scripture:

Isaiah 7:14 /Matthew 1:23 = Messiah/Jesus is to be named “Imanuel,” which means, God with us.

Isaiah 9:6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

Mark 2:1-12 “No one can forgive sins but God alone”

Mark 10:18 (also Luke 18:19) “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone?”

Our Lord existed in eternity past. He was the Creator (John 1:1-3; Col 1:15-19). He existed before Abraham (John 8:58). See Micah 5:2. John 10:30-33, 36-28

Jesus claimed to be “one” with the Father. They accused Jesus of blasphemy for making Himself equal with God (see also John 5). Jesus did not deny these charges. It is what He claimed, and what they thought He claimed. Thomas, on seeing the resurrected Christ, proclaimed, “My Lord and My God” (John 20:28).

John 1:51—Angels ascend and descend on the Son of Man (Jesus), which is an image that is found in Jacob’s dream in Genesis 28:12. John 14:9 “He who has seen Me has seen the Father.”

While men and angels refuse worship, since they are not God, Jesus accepts worship as God: See John 9:38; Acts 10:25-26; Matthew 28:9; Matthew 14:33; Matthew 2:11; Revelation 19:9-10; 1:9-20.

Other texts refer to our Lord as both Jesus and God: John 11:4; Titus 2:13; 2 Peter 1:1; 1 John 5:20
Other texts which apply to this issue are: Hebrews 1:1-4; Philippians 2:5ff.; Colossians 2:9; Revelation 1:9-20

As to the possibility that Jesus is somehow a diminished version or representation of God, I would particularly consider: Hebrews 1:1-4; Colossians 1:15-19 (note especially v. 19); Colossians 2:19.


Stay strong-clothed with the full armor of God.

2Co 10:4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds,
2Co 10:5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ,
2Co 10:6 and being ready to punish all disobedience when your obedience is fulfilled.

Johann.
 

Marvelloustime

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And HOW did GOD create . HE SPOKE and it was . And who did paul say created all things
GOD , CHRIST . THE WORD is the very essence of GOD , it is life and it is truth as GOD is life and is truth .
GOD created all things THROUGH HIS WORD . isnt that lovely . NOW let all that draws breath praise the LORD
and never once heed men who have altered bibles and or twisted doctrines to create another image of they own god
cause that god cannot save and it do DENY THE GOD .
@amigo de christo
save-image.png
 

Marvelloustime

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Wisdom .
The fear of man is a snare to the soul .
Many go after men who warn of and expose and even hate false doctrine .
and often call them judgers and haters .
But lets see what GOD told a church .
BUT THIS YOU HAVE , YOU HATE the doctrine of the nicolations which i also hate . BELIEVE me when i say
GOD HATES INTERFAITH and its LIE . And ME DOES TOO . It Trods Christ under foot and it will save none .
@amigo de christo
save-image.pngsave-image.png
 
J

Johann

Guest
Tit 2:13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,
Tit 2:14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.
Tit 2:15 Speak these things, exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no one despise you.

great God and. FS93A, +Gen_1:26, A. T. Robertson notes that as early as 1798 Granville Sharp laid down a rule which has not since been successfully discredited, that when two nouns (either substantive or adjective, or participle) of the same case are connected by "and" (kai, in Greek), nouns of personal description (respecting office, dignity, affinity, or connection, and attributes, properties, or qualities, good or ill), if the article "the" in any of its cases precedes the first of the said nouns or participles, and is not repeated before the second noun or participle, the second noun always relates to the same person that is expressed or described by the first noun or participle: i.e. it denotes a farther description of the first named person.

This principle is not claimed, however, for proper names or to the plural number. Thus "the apostle and high priest of our confession" is one person, Jesus (Heb_3:1). John is referred to as "your brother, and companion" in Rev_1:9, a reference to just one person. Such expressions as "the God and Father" (Rom_15:6, 1Co_15:24, 2Co_1:3; 2Co_11:31, Gal_1:4, Eph_5:20, Php_4:20, 1Th_1:3; 1Th_3:11; 1Th_3:13, Rev_1:6) and "the Lord and Father" (Jas_1:27; Jas_3:9) are all used of one person, not two.

So likewise "the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ" (2Pe_2:20; 2Pe_3:2) is a reference to one person.

The introduction of the word "our" in 2Pe_1:11; 2Pe_3:18 does not affect the idiom. Following the same principle for the identical construction in Greek for 2Pe_1:1, "our God and Saviour Jesus Christ" is a reference to a single person, not two. So here at Tit_2:13, the same construction is correctly rendered "our God and Saviour Jesus Christ," and the reference is to one person, not two. Attention to this construction thus yields two texts in support of the Deity of Christ that were not evident in some English translations (see Robertson,

The Minister and His Greek New Testament, "The Greek Article and the Deity of Christ," pp. 61-68). When the Greek article occurs before both nouns, two persons are meant, as "let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican," two separate persons are implied (Mat_18:17, cited by William Hendrickson, Comm. on 1-2 Timothy and Titus, p. 374).

Those who deny the validity of this grammatical principle are faced with the problem that if two persons are meant, then Paul is predicting the simultaneous glorious advent of both the Father and the Son at Christ’s second coming.

Although the advent of the Father is supportable from other prophecies (%Dan_7:22, **Zec_14:5, *Eph_1:10), the simultaneous advent of the Father and the Son is not usually incorporated into the prophetic system of those who understand this passage to refer to two persons. +Gen_1:26, Neh_1:5; +Neh_8:6; Neh_9:32, +*Isa_9:6; Isa_19:20, Dan_2:45; Dan_9:4, *Luk_9:26, *Jhn_1:1; Jhn_10:30; +*Jhn_20:28, +*Act_20:28, +*Rom_9:5, *Php_2:6, Col_1:15-20; *Col_2:9, 2Th_1:12 g. +*Heb_1:8, **2Pe_1:1 g. **1Jn_5:20.

Johann.
 
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Grailhunter

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And HOW did GOD create . HE SPOKE and it was . And who did paul say created all things
GOD , CHRIST . THE WORD is the very essence of GOD , it is life and it is truth as GOD is life and is truth .
GOD created all things THROUGH HIS WORD . isnt that lovely . NOW let all that draws breath praise the LORD
and never once heed men who have altered bibles and or twisted doctrines to create another image of they own god
cause that god cannot save and it do DENY THE GOD .

I am assuming that you are referring to the One God Formula.
The pre-existing Christ and that Christ created all things.

I disagree.

I can give you a bunch of Old Testament scriptures where Yahweh makes it absolutely clear He is the only God and there is no other.

In the New Testament there are three Gods and there are scriptures that indicate Christ is either the Creator God or involved with it.
I have nothing against Christ being active in the Old Testament if there were scriptures that clearly stated that fact.

I notice people referencing Old Testament scriptures and say they are proof of Christ's pre-existance but It is more like dreamazoid and with that type of interpretation you could make the scriptures mean anything….who knows what the rest of their religion is like.

So Yahweh indicates that He created all things.
And Apostles say that Christ created all things.

Since the Old Testament scriptures give no clear indication that Yeshua was present or active in the Old Testament I go with Yahweh is the creator God and what is said in the New Testament leaves part of the story out or there is more to the story.

Like the verses that say you have to hate your mother and father to be a disciple of Christ….there has to be more to the story.
 

Taken

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Does the Holy Spirit help you enough to explain tho the rest of us why apparent contradictions are not really contradictions?

Contradictions Seemingly appear in such fashion to those who do not Understand ….

All Scripture IS True…
However All Scripture does NOT Apply the Same to Every individual.

Examples…

What applied to an ancient man does not apply to a modern man.

What applies to a female does not always apply to male and vise versa.

What applies to Jews Under Law does not always apply to Gentiles or Jews not under the Law.

What applies to Believers does not always apply to converted believers.

Individual’s beliefs, doings, works are individually assessed (by God) Recorded, (Evidenced) and their blessings, gifts, rewards, individually given, according to Gods Order and Way.

Glory to God,
Taken
 
J

Johann

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I disagree.
I don't.
Christology: Jesus Christ
The term “christology” (from Greek christos meaning “anointed one” or “Christ”) refers to the study of Christ. It often includes such topics as the preexistence and eternality of Christ, OT prophecies about Christ, Christ’s humanity, deity, and incarnation, as well as the issue of his temptations and sinlessness, his death, resurrection, ascension and exaltation, return, three-fold office, and states.

The Preexistence of Christ
There are several texts in the NT that speak in one way or another to the preexistence of Christ. John says the “word” became flesh which implies that he had existed previous to his incarnation (John 1:1, 14). Jesus himself suggests his preexistence in a number of texts. He said he had glory with the father before the world was (John 17:5) and that he had come from the father (John 5:43; 6:38). These imply preexistence. Paul also, in referring to Christ as the last Adam, implies his preexistence since Jews often held that both Adam and Moses were preexistent. So also when he says that Christ was “rich,” but then became “poor,” that he was “in the form of God,” but “humbled himself,” that he was “before all things” (Col 1:17). Both these references refer to the humiliation of the incarnation and therefore suggest that Christ existed previous to his coming to earth (see 1 Cor 15:45; and Phil 2:6).

Prophecies About Christ
Taken in the light of the entire canon, the historical fact of the resurrection, and with a view to Jewish hermeneutics, there are many prophecies about Christ in the Old Testament. Some of the familiar ones include: his birth (Gen 3;15; Gal 4:4); his lineage (Gen 49:10; Luke 3:33); his place of birth (Micah 5:2; Luke 2:4-7); his Galilean ministry of compassion and judgment (Isa 9:1-2; Matt 4:14-16); that he was the prophet to come (Deut 18:15, 18-19; Acts 3:20, 22); that he would function as a priest (Psalm 110:4; Heb 5:5-6); his betrayal (Psalm 41:9; Luke 22:47-48); his being sold for thirty pieces of silver (Zech 11:11-12; Matt 26:15; 27:1-10); his violent death (Zech 12:10; John 20:27); his resurrection (Psalm 16:10; Luke 24:7; Acts 2:25-28); his exaltation to God’s right hand (Psalm 110:1; Acts 2:33-34), his eternal reign in fulfillment of Davidic promise (2 Sam 7:12-16; Psalm 110:1; Isa 55:3; Acts 2:33-34; 13:22-23, 32-34).

The Humanity of Christ
There are several lines of evidence in the Scripture which converge to prove that from a Biblical point of view Jesus was truly and thoroughly human. Jesus had human names (i.e., Jesus, Son of David), was experienced by others as a human being (John 9:16), had a body (1 John 1:1), spoke normal human language(s), referred to himself as a man (John 8:40); others referred to him as a man (Acts 3:22); experienced life as a human being (Luke 2:52), including such limitations as hunger (Matt 4:2), thirst (John 19:28), tiredness (John 4:6), intense sorrow and distress (John 11:35; Luke 13:34-35), and ignorance (Mark 13:32); he had a human soul (Luke 23:46), and died (Hebrews 2:14-15).

The Deity of Christ
There are also several lines of evidence in Scripture which converge to prove that the Biblical writers regarded Jesus as human, but as more than human as well. They considered him divine. John says he was divine or God (John 1:1). Paul says he is the “very form of God” (morphe theou; Phil 2:6) as well as our great God and savior (Titus 2:13).

He is referred to as Lord (Matt 2:43-45), Yahweh (cf. Rom 10:9, 13 and Joel 2:32) as well as the King of Kings (a designation a Jew such as John would only give God himself—Rev 19:16). He does the works of God, including creating (John 1:3; Col. 1:15-20), sustaining (Heb 1:3-4), saving (Matt 1:23), raising the dead (John 5:25); judging (John 5:27), sending the Spirit (a work assigned to the father as well; see John 14:26; 15:26), and building his church (Matt 16:18). He accepts, as God himself does, worship from all men (Matt 14:33) and angels (Heb 1:6) and some day all men will bow to him (something only God accepts; Phil 2:10, Isa 45:23).

So we see that the doctrine of the simultaneous deity and humanity of Christ is not the invention of some fourth or fifth century church council (e.g., Nicaea [AD325] or Chaledeon [451]), but is clearly taught in Scripture.

The precise formulation (i.e., a working model) of how this could be so may have had to await a response to the Arian heresy and other Christological developments (and a borrowing of Greek metaphysical language), but the essential features of the doctrine are found in apostolic and early church confessions.

The Incarnation & Kenosis

Jesus Christ was born of the virgin Mary (Matt 1:23; Gal 4:4) in fulfillment of Isaiah’s prediction (Isa 7:14). From a more theological point of view, John says that the eternal and divine Word became flesh and that God thus “tabernacled” among us (John 1:1, 14; Exodus 40:34-35). The doctrine of the incarnation means that the second person of the Trinity took on human flesh. Jesus Christ is both undiminished deity united with perfect humanity forever and without confusion of attributes. One person, two natures (divine/human).

God became a man in order to redeem his creation and rule over it. Thus he came to fulfill the Davidic covenant as the promised King (Luke 1:31-33). In his role as Lord and King he reveals God to men (John 1:18); saves sinners (Gal 1:4), destroys the works of the devil (1 John 3:8), judges men (Acts 17:31) and brings all things in creation back in submission to God (1 Cor 15:20-28; Ephesians 1:10-11).

There have been many errors regarding the dual nature of Christ.

We will briefly mention some here. The Ebionites denied Christ’s divine nature (he only received the Spirit at Baptism) as also the Arians (cf. present day Jehovah’s witnesses who claim likewise that Jesus is the first and highest created being). The Gnostics (i.e., docetism), affirming that Jesus only appeared human, denied that he had a truly human nature.

Nestorius denied the union of the divine and human natures in one person (the divine completely controlled the human) and Eutychianism denied any real distinction in Christ’s natures at all (the human nature was engulfed in the divine resulting in a new third nature).

Finally, Appolinarius denied a facet of Jesus’ humanity, namely, that he had a human spirit (the divine Logos took the place of Jesus’ human spirit). These are all errors in light of the Biblical data and were rightly rejected at various church councils.

Finally, there have been many attempts to explain the meaning of the term kenosis in Philippians 2:7, especially since the mid to late 1800’s and the rise of psychology. It has been argued that the term kenosis refers to Christ willingly laying aside certain essential attributes such as omniscience, omnipresence, and omnipotence in order to redeem man. This theology in its various forms has come to be known as Kenotic Theology.11 But is this what Paul is saying in Philippians 2:6, that Jesus gave up the use of or the possession of certain divine attributes?

This is not likely. In fact, the apostle explains what he means when he says that Christ emptied himself by taking on the nature of a servant. Thus it is not the setting aside of any divine attributes that is being sung12 about here in Phil 2, but rather the humiliation of the Son of God taking on human form and that “of a servant.” This, of course, is the point Paul is trying to make with those in the Philippian church. They too are to live the humble lives of servants, following Christ’s example.13


Read the full article.

J.
 
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Wrangler

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People without the Holy Spirit helping them, see contradictions.........I don't.
Contradictions are not a matter of perception but conception. Are there or are there not contradictions in the Bible? The question requires an absolute answer.
Does the Holy Spirit help you enough to explain tho the rest of us why apparent contradictions are not really contradictions?
I think too few grasp the significance of a contradiction. I know you have a legal background. How would a court handle even an apparent contradiction?

I hold the Bible is not inherently contradictory but trinitarianism is inherently contradictory.
 
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J

Johann

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How does Rev 3:14 support the idea that Jesus had a beginning?
The beginning of the creation of God - This expression is a very important one in regard to the rank and dignity of the Saviour, and, like all similar expressions respecting him, its meaning has been much controverted.

Compare the notes on Col_1:15. The phrase used here is susceptible, properly, of only one of the following significations, namely, either:
(a) That he was the beginning of the creation in the sense that he caused the universe to begin to exist - that is, that he was the author of all things; or.
(b) That he was the first created being; or.
(c) That he holds the primacy over all, and is at the head of the universe.

It is not necessary to examine any other proposed interpretations, for the only other senses supposed to be conveyed by the words, that he is the beginning of the creation in the sense I that he rose from the dead as the first-fruits of them that sleep, or that he is the head of the spiritual creation of God, axe so foreign to the natural meaning of the words as to need no special refutation.

As to the three significations suggested above, it may be observed, that the first one - that he is the author of the creation, and in that sense the beginning - though expressing a scriptural doctrine Joh_1:3; Eph_3:9; Col_1:16, is not in accordance with the proper meaning of the word used here - ἀρχὴ archē.

The word properly refers to the “commencement” of a thing, not its “authorship,” and denotes properly primacy in time, and primacy in rank, but not primacy in the sense of causing anything to exist. The two ideas which run through the word as it is used in the New Testament are those just suggested. For the former - primacy in regard to time - that is properly the commencement of a thing, see the following passages where the word occurs: Mat_19:4, Mat_19:8; Mat_24:8, Mat_24:21; Mar_1:1; Mar_10:6; Mar_13:8, Mar_13:19; Luk_1:2; Joh_1:1-2; Joh_2:11; Joh_6:64; Joh_8:25, Joh_8:44; Joh_15:27; Joh_16:4; Act_11:15; 1Jo_1:1; 1Jo_2:7, 1Jo_2:13-14, 1Jo_2:24; 1Jo_3:8, 1Jo_3:11; 2Jo_1:5-6.

For the latter signification, primacy of rank or authority, see the following places: Luk_12:11; Luk_20:20; Rom_8:38; 1Co_15:24; Eph_1:21; Eph_3:10; Eph_6:12; Col_1:16, Col_1:18; Col_2:10, Col_2:15; Tit_3:1.

The word is not, therefore, found in the sense of authorship, as denoting that one is the beginning of anything in the sense that he caused it to have an existence. As to the second of the significations suggested, that it means that he was the first created being, it may be observed:

(a) that this is not a necessary signification of the phrase, since no one can show that this is the only proper meaning which could be given to the words, and therefore the phrase cannot be adduced to prove that he is himself a created being.

If it were demonstrated from other sources that Christ was, in fact, a created being, and the first that God had made, it cannot be denied that this language would appropriately express that fact.

But it cannot be made out from the mere use of the language here; and as the language is susceptible of other interpretations, it cannot be employed to prove that Christ is a created being.

(b) Such an interpretation would be at variance with all those passages which speak of him as uncreated and eternal; which ascribe divine attributes to him; which speak of him as himself the Creator of all things. Compare Joh_1:1-3; Col_1:16; Heb_1:2, Heb_1:6,Heb_1:8, Heb_1:10-12.

The third signification, therefore, remains, that he is “the beginning of the creation of God,” in the sense that he is the head or prince of the creation; that is, that he presides over it so far as the purposes of redemption are to be accomplished, and so far as is necessary for those purposes. This is:

(1) In accordance with the meaning of the word, Luk_12:11; Luk_20:20, et al. ut supra; and,

(2) In accordance with the uniform statements respecting the Redeemer, that “all power is given unto him in heaven and in earth” Mat_28:18; that God has “given him power over all flesh” Joh_17:2; that all things are “put under his feet” the. Joh_2:8; 1Co_15:27); that he is exalted over all things, Eph_1:20-22. Having this rank, it was proper that he should speak with authority to the church at Laodicea.

Thanks.

J.
 

Taken

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I am assuming that you are referring to the One God Formula.
The pre-existing Christ and that Christ created all things.

I disagree.

I can give you a bunch of Old Testament scriptures where Yahweh makes it absolutely clear He is the only God and there is no other.

Correct ONE Lord God Almighty.

So Yahweh indicates that He created all things.
And Apostles say that Christ created all things.

Creator….God
Maker …God…called On Earth…JESUS.
Word…called in heaven God
Word…called on Earth JESUS
Word…of God Speaks…
Maker…Jesus
Gen. 1: [3]God said…
Gen 2: [3] created AND made…

John 1: [1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[2] The same was in the beginning with God.
[3] All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Since the Old Testament scriptures give no clear indication that Yeshua was present or active in the Old Testament

The OT…describes His works.
The NT…reveals His name, descriptions and Titles…He is the Maker, He is God.


Glory to God,
Taken.
 
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CadyandZoe

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The Bible clearly states that the son is God’s “firstborn”
The apostle Paul, speaking figuratively, asserts that Jesus is the "firstborn of all creation." Here, he is not talking about metaphysics but asserting Jesus' authority. Jesus wasn't born first. Mary was born before Jesus.

…his “only begotten”…
The apostle John asserts that Jesus is the unique Son of God. To understand John's meaning, we can refer to the Davidic Covenant found in 2 Samuel 7. In this passage, God states that He will refer to Solomon as His "son," and He will also consider all the kings of Israel in the Davidic dynasty as His sons. In that context, God declares that even though his "son" might commit iniquity, he will correct him.

2 Samuel 7:13-17 He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. I will be a father to him and he will be a son to Me; when he commits iniquity, I will correct him with the rod of men and the strokes of the sons of men, but My lovingkindness shall not depart from him, as I took it away from Saul, whom I removed from before you. Your house and your kingdom shall endure before Me forever; your throne shall be established forever.”’” In accordance with all these words and all this vision, so Nathan spoke to David.

Jesus is uniquely qualified to be God's son in that he never needed correction. Jesus lived a sinless life. He is equal to the father in terms of his character, vision, faithfulness, mercy, love, values, and holiness. And he always did God's will. And one more thing, Jesus is uniquely the son in that he will exist forever.
..and that he existed “before all things” and was used in their creation…..the Bible argues with that premise. (Col 1:15-17; John 1:2-3)

(Col 1:15-17; John 1:2-3)

Colossians 1:15-17 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

He is the image of the invisible God
According to Trinitarian doctrine, God is a single essence composed of three persons. How can a single person, Jesus, stand as the image of a tripartite being? This makes no sense. Rather, the Apostle Paul teaches us that Jesus is the fullness of the divine nature in bodily form. (Colossians 2:9) There aren't three persons in the divine nature. There is only one divine nature, and Jesus stands as the image of that divine nature in bodily form.

Bear in mind that the image isn't the thing itself.

by Him all things were created
Here, the translator, assuming a Trinitarian creed, grants Jesus creative agency. The phrase "by him" is one of a few plausible translations. But we know from the gospel of John that God is the creator. So the Trinitarian translation is not likely to be the correct translation. The Apostle meant to say, "IN HIM" all things were created

whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities
This raises another issue with the Greek usage of the phrase "ta panta" translated "all things." In my experience working with the Greek text, the phrase "ta panta" might also refer to people rather than things. Here, we understand that Paul is not talking about things but about people, such as rulers and authorities.

If we remove the Trinitarian bias, what did Paul actually intend to say?

Who was God talking to in Gen 1:26?
He is talking to the animals about his intent to make a creature who will share divine attributes and animal attributes. Mankind is a composite of both.
That is an excellent video and well researched, but there is nothing in scripture about the birthdates of anyone…..the reason being that the Jews of that period did not celebrate birthdays…only pagans did.
Okay, but the account of John's and Jesus' birth was given to establish their pedigree. The point is, Jesus wasn't born in December. :)
 

Ritajanice

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Exposing The Gospel Of Fear: Fearmongering​

  • October 30, 2017
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Ralph Brickley

Ralph Brickley​

I am the father of three, husband of one, and lover of the Gospel message. I simply seek to spread the Word of God unadulterated and in context with a special emphasis on supporting recovery from traumatic and spiritually abusive religion.

Dictators, Cult leaders, and Abusers all use fear to control their victims. Fear of retribution, fear of being alone, or losing self without their presence, fear of the ‘outside’, fear that they are right and all else is wrong. Fear that without them, you are nothing. Fear is the most powerful driving force known to man, right next to love. It is no surprise then, that it’s the best tool of the enemy of your soul.
Knowing it has this power, men, and women who use it are then evil and workers of iniquity either by purpose, or ignorance.

I remember watching the movie First Knight (1995) with Richard Gere playing Lancelot, another take on the Arthurian legend. When he (Lancelot) comes to Camelot, there is an obstacle course that has never been defeated, but King Arthur, played by Sean Connery, who has betrothed princess Guinevere has offered a kiss with her as the prize for beating the course if any man can.
Lancelot of course does, and when asked how he did it, he said, “Perhaps fear caused other men to go back when they should have gone forward.”
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This stuck in my mind all these years, and yet it was after that that I was myself sucked into a fearmongering structure of religion. That is not to say all religions are like this, but I have been hearing from hundreds of people who have like stories.
Someone told me once, ‘You don’t know what will happen to me if I stop going to XYZ church’. That person is completely abused and being controlled by a fearmongering preacher. They have come to believe that they will become wicked without the building, the man and the system. How?
I suggested to this person, ‘Go and try another church’, and the response was, ‘I can’t, none of them are good enough, or teach the same thing.’ My response was, Praise God! That’s a good thing they teach something different. Without seeing it, you’ve been completely duped.
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. – 2 Timothy 1:7
There are many words in the Bible used for spirit, and the common definition of it is a gust of air, a breeze, or a blast, a force. This can be in conjunction with the Holy Spirit, but there is something interesting to note when reading 2 Timothy 1:7, and it is found in the commentary of another verse using the word.
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. – 1 John 4:1
In John Wesley’s commentary of 1 John 4:1, he notates one of the meanings to the spirit which proves very insightful here.
“Believe not every spirit – Whereby any teacher is actuated. But try the spirits”
The actuator is the force that causes something to happen, and in the sense of these two scriptures, it can be thought of as motivation, or purpose. Thus, we could say;
“For God hath not given us the actuator, or motivation of fear;”
or
“Beloved, believe not every motivation, but test their purpose [teachers, preachers] whether they are of God…”
17-Feature-Fearmongering-The-Cheapest-Kind-of-Preaching-0608-300x225

How do we Test the Actuator?​

This is going to take some discernment, knowing your Bible, prayer, and seeking counsel from many. For instance, I probably couldn’t count the times I heard the preacher say, ‘As long as I’m in the Book, you listen to what I have to say. If I get out of the book, then you find yourself another preacher…’ And then that preacher would go on to teach things, not in the Book, and then claim license to expound on the Word…and don’t you dare question him!
 
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Grailhunter

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Christology: Jesus Christ
The term “christology” (from Greek christos meaning “anointed one” or “Christ”) refers to the study of Christ. It often includes such topics as the preexistence and eternality of Christ, OT prophecies about Christ, Christ’s humanity, deity, and incarnation, as well as the issue of his temptations and sinlessness, his death, resurrection, ascension and exaltation, return, three-fold office, and states.

The Preexistence of Christ
There are several texts in the NT that speak in one way or another to the preexistence of Christ. John says the “word” became flesh which implies that he had existed previous to his incarnation (John 1:1, 14). Jesus himself suggests his preexistence in a number of texts. He said he had glory with the father before the world was (John 17:5) and that he had come from the father (John 5:43; 6:38). These imply preexistence. Paul also, in referring to Christ as the last Adam, implies his preexistence since Jews often held that both Adam and Moses were preexistent. So also when he says that Christ was “rich,” but then became “poor,” that he was “in the form of God,” but “humbled himself,” that he was “before all things” (Col 1:17). Both these references refer to the humiliation of the incarnation and therefore suggest that Christ existed previous to his coming to earth (see 1 Cor 15:45; and Phil 2:6).

Prophecies About Christ
Taken in the light of the entire canon, the historical fact of the resurrection, and with a view to Jewish hermeneutics, there are many prophecies about Christ in the Old Testament. Some of the familiar ones include: his birth (Gen 3;15; Gal 4:4); his lineage (Gen 49:10; Luke 3:33); his place of birth (Micah 5:2; Luke 2:4-7); his Galilean ministry of compassion and judgment (Isa 9:1-2; Matt 4:14-16); that he was the prophet to come (Deut 18:15, 18-19; Acts 3:20, 22); that he would function as a priest (Psalm 110:4; Heb 5:5-6); his betrayal (Psalm 41:9; Luke 22:47-48); his being sold for thirty pieces of silver (Zech 11:11-12; Matt 26:15; 27:1-10); his violent death (Zech 12:10; John 20:27); his resurrection (Psalm 16:10; Luke 24:7; Acts 2:25-28); his exaltation to God’s right hand (Psalm 110:1; Acts 2:33-34), his eternal reign in fulfillment of Davidic promise (2 Sam 7:12-16; Psalm 110:1; Isa 55:3; Acts 2:33-34; 13:22-23, 32-34).

The Humanity of Christ
There are several lines of evidence in the Scripture which converge to prove that from a Biblical point of view Jesus was truly and thoroughly human. Jesus had human names (i.e., Jesus, Son of David), was experienced by others as a human being (John 9:16), had a body (1 John 1:1), spoke normal human language(s), referred to himself as a man (John 8:40); others referred to him as a man (Acts 3:22); experienced life as a human being (Luke 2:52), including such limitations as hunger (Matt 4:2), thirst (John 19:28), tiredness (John 4:6), intense sorrow and distress (John 11:35; Luke 13:34-35), and ignorance (Mark 13:32); he had a human soul (Luke 23:46), and died (Hebrews 2:14-15).

The Deity of Christ
There are also several lines of evidence in Scripture which converge to prove that the Biblical writers regarded Jesus as human, but as more than human as well. They considered him divine. John says he was divine or God (John 1:1). Paul says he is the “very form of God” (morphe theou; Phil 2:6) as well as our great God and savior (Titus 2:13).

He is referred to as Lord (Matt 2:43-45), Yahweh (cf. Rom 10:9, 13 and Joel 2:32) as well as the King of Kings (a designation a Jew such as John would only give God himself—Rev 19:16). He does the works of God, including creating (John 1:3; Col. 1:15-20), sustaining (Heb 1:3-4), saving (Matt 1:23), raising the dead (John 5:25); judging (John 5:27), sending the Spirit (a work assigned to the father as well; see John 14:26; 15:26), and building his church (Matt 16:18). He accepts, as God himself does, worship from all men (Matt 14:33) and angels (Heb 1:6) and some day all men will bow to him (something only God accepts; Phil 2:10, Isa 45:23).

So we see that the doctrine of the simultaneous deity and humanity of Christ is not the invention of some fourth or fifth century church council (e.g., Nicaea [AD325] or Chaledeon [451]), but is clearly taught in Scripture.

The precise formulation (i.e., a working model) of how this could be so may have had to await a response to the Arian heresy and other Christological developments (and a borrowing of Greek metaphysical language), but the essential features of the doctrine are found in apostolic and early church confessions.

The Incarnation & Kenosis

Jesus Christ was born of the virgin Mary (Matt 1:23; Gal 4:4) in fulfillment of Isaiah’s prediction (Isa 7:14). From a more theological point of view, John says that the eternal and divine Word became flesh and that God thus “tabernacled” among us (John 1:1, 14; Exodus 40:34-35). The doctrine of the incarnation means that the second person of the Trinity took on human flesh. Jesus Christ is both undiminished deity united with perfect humanity forever and without confusion of attributes. One person, two natures (divine/human).

God became a man in order to redeem his creation and rule over it. Thus he came to fulfill the Davidic covenant as the promised King (Luke 1:31-33). In his role as Lord and King he reveals God to men (John 1:18); saves sinners (Gal 1:4), destroys the works of the devil (1 John 3:8), judges men (Acts 17:31) and brings all things in creation back in submission to God (1 Cor 15:20-28; Ephesians 1:10-11).

There have been many errors regarding the dual nature of Christ.

We will briefly mention some here. The Ebionites denied Christ’s divine nature (he only received the Spirit at Baptism) as also the Arians (cf. present day Jehovah’s witnesses who claim likewise that Jesus is the first and highest created being). The Gnostics (i.e., docetism), affirming that Jesus only appeared human, denied that he had a truly human nature.

Nestorius denied the union of the divine and human natures in one person (the divine completely controlled the human) and Eutychianism denied any real distinction in Christ’s natures at all (the human nature was engulfed in the divine resulting in a new third nature).

Finally, Appolinarius denied a facet of Jesus’ humanity, namely, that he had a human spirit (the divine Logos took the place of Jesus’ human spirit). These are all errors in light of the Biblical data and were rightly rejected at various church councils.

Finally, there have been many attempts to explain the meaning of the term kenosis in Philippians 2:7, especially since the mid to late 1800’s and the rise of psychology. It has been argued that the term kenosis refers to Christ willingly laying aside certain essential attributes such as omniscience, omnipresence, and omnipotence in order to redeem man. This theology in its various forms has come to be known as Kenotic Theology.11 But is this what Paul is saying in Philippians 2:6, that Jesus gave up the use of or the possession of certain divine attributes?

This is not likely. In fact, the apostle explains what he means when he says that Christ emptied himself by taking on the nature of a servant. Thus it is not the setting aside of any divine attributes that is being sung12 about here in Phil 2, but rather the humiliation of the Son of God taking on human form and that “of a servant.” This, of course, is the point Paul is trying to make with those in the Philippian church. They too are to live the humble lives of servants, following Christ’s example.13


Read the full article.

J.

I did not say that the Messiah was not prophesied.
And I did not say that the New Testament did not indicate the pre-existent Christ as the Creator God.
 

Ritajanice

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Bible Verses about Knowledge, Puffing up​


Playlist:​

playlist

  • 1 Corinthians 8:1-2
    Now concerning things offered to idols: We know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love edifies. And if anyone thinks that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know.
  • Job 15:1-3
    Then Eliphaz the Temanite answered and said: “Should a wise man answer with empty knowledge,
    And fill himself with the east wind? Should he reason with unprofitable talk,
    Or by speeches with which he can do no good?
  • Proverbs 26:12
    Do you see a man wise in his own eyes?
    There is more hope for a fool than for him.

  • Proverbs 26:16
    The lazy man is wiser in his own eyes
    Than seven men who can answer sensibly.

  • Isaiah 5:21
    Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes,
    And prudent in their own sight!

  • 1 Timothy 3:6
    not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil.
  • 2 Timothy 3:7
    always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

  • Proverbs 13:10
    By pride comes nothing but strife,
    But with the well-advised is wisdom.

  • Proverbs 21:4
    A haughty look, a proud heart,
    And the plowing of the wicked are sin.

  • John 13:35
    By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."
  • 1 Corinthians 4:6
    Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.
  • 1 Corinthians 13:8
    Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away.
  • 1 Corinthians 13:2
    And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing
 
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