Ah, that’s interesting , thank you...what Bible would you recommend to read?
THE Trinity can Now be discussed.
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Well said, I agree..I take no notice of the fear mongers, I feel sorry they have to use that emotional tactic...thank God it don’t penetrate my heart/ spirit...I’m sure I’m in error at times...I have no fear of being in error, the Spirit will correct me, if it’s Of me..,he doesn’t force me like some men/ woman do...to believe what they say is truth..
He will correct me his way, even if I’m ignorant to his truth, only he can reveal it to me.imo.
God is very patient with all of us...never have I ever experienced such patience...
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Nobody is hating you, but there are some on here that will not come to the LIGHT - make sure you go to the LIGHT
The lies are what God hates - Romans 12:9
Don’t just pretend to love others. Really love them. Hate what is wrong. Hold tightly to what is good.
Anyone who does not come to the LIGHT does not love God
Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the Light of the world."
I will.
Don't know where to start but allow me to begin here, the part I colored red.
1. The OT had many prophets who spoke the words directly given by God, they had the indwelling Holy Spirit, else it's impossible to predict future events, like speaking about Jesus to come. Suggestion, read Isa 53.
2. DAVID -
Ps 51:9 Hide your face from my sins, and blot out all my iniquities.
Ps 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me.
Ps 51:11 Cast me not away from your presence, and take not your Holy Spirit from me.
Ps 51:12 Restore to me the joy of your salvation, and uphold me with a willing spirit.
David (living 1000BC) through the Holy Spirit prophesied on many occasions about Jesus life, look it up.
As you can see the Holy Spirit is not something of the NT only.
3. JESUS - telling Nicodemus (a religious leader) he must be born again
Joh 3:9 Nicodemus said to him, “How can these things be?”
Joh 3:10 Jesus answered him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things?
Jesus blaming Nicodemus for not knowing the Holy Spirit.
God speaking directly to these prophets, does not mean that they were permanently indwelled, I believe that they were filled, which means that his Spirit could leave them at any time.
| Audio Crossref Comm Hebrew Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version The LORD would speak to Moses face to face, as one speaks to a friend. Then Moses would return to the camp, but his young aide Joshua son of Nun did not leave the tent |
Tell me how God can create in us a clean heart @ProDeo ?
Thanks for the rest of your information that you posted, interesting read.
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David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Every one of the OT saints who believed the Word of God were born-again
"In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God"
The same Word of God that spoke Living words to Able, Enoch, Noah, Abraham , Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, etc
Jesus said: "These words I speak to you they are Spirit and they are Life."
Read the whole Psalm 51, it states -
A Psalm of David, when Nathan the prophet went to him, after he had gone in to Bathsheba.
David committed a terrible crime and Psalm 51 is his confession, repentance and a supplication for restoration. He was well aware God could take His Holy Spirit from him. Like God can do with us if we willingly sin again without repentance.
You are most welcome dear sis.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Personally, I like to read a variety of translations along with a Jewish Tanakh so that I can check how the Jews translate their own language…….as well, I like to use a good Concordance….Strongs gives me the best definitions, as well as all the verses where we find a particular word…it’s original meaning, and how it is used elsewhere is very revealing.
Sometimes it reveals where translation is altered from the original and allows me to research further. I spend a lot of time researching as there is much to know among all the religious confusion.
As you said and know, God alone opens up the heart to receive his truth. People can quote all the Scriptures all they like, but unless they know what they are talking about it’s absolutely meaningless. The meaning attached by the church system is way off.….nothing fits.
The NWT, published by JW’s was released because of the many errors we found in modern translations that were slanted towards the trinity….we researched everything thoroughly, and you might like to read how we arrived at our current translation. (Click on the link below)
As the study of linguistics advances we have revised previous editions to keep the truth current in the language of the day. The KJV loses a lot of people with its archaic English….I don’t think God wants us to use a translation if we have learn a language other than the one we speak daily, before we can comprehend what it is teaching…..do you?
Principles of Bible Translation
A Born Again can’t willingly sin, they are Born Of God His seed remains in them.
If I do wrong I never repent, I just ask him to help me in my weaknesses and he does..a Born Again conscience is heightened ...
He speaks to my conscience in a way that this world doesn't understand because it doesn't have a relationship with Him. The Holy Spirit makes our conscience sensitive to His leading.
No, there is no way that God can un-birth my spirit..plus it’s biblical.we have been Born Again of imperishable seed that liveth and abideth forever...A Born Again cannot go on sinning as they have been Born Of God His seed remains in them...permanently.
The Spirit has reassured me for the past 33 yrs that I can never lose my salvation..as a new bade, the enemy would whisper in my ear, do as your told or God will take his Spirit away from you,Gods Living testimony witnessed to my spirit that it wasn’t true..I believe him 100%...
Thank you.
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You know when I look at this I see something a little different, but not excluding what you have pointed out.
It says Nicodemus was a man of the Pharisees (John 3:1). That he is the same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. And before Nicodemus could go any further John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. I thought that was odd at first that no question had yet been asked and in John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. But it turns out the Pharisees reject Gods counsel against themselves when rejecting Johns baptism. For example, John says, in Mark 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost (There you go, we have water and Spirit) But in Luke 7:30 it says," But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him. So Nicodemus (being a Pharisee) was of those who rejected the counsel of God against themselves concerning the baptism of John. Whereas to the contrary in Luke 7:29 It says, And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John. And what this means is told us in Mat 21:31-32 as Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you. For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him. So when Nicodemus came to Jesus by night as one who rejects the counsel of God against himself concerning the baptism of John (which was of water) its no wonder the first thing Jesus says to him is Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Especially when in contrast to them there are those who justified God by being baptized by John when he said That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you. For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him Mat 21:32
In Acts 19:2 These had no idea there was even a Holy Ghost, though they
Acts 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
Even though they were baptized unto John's baptism
Acts 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Which is sort of strange because John himself had the Holy Ghost from conception and also spoke of the Holy Ghost when baptizing, for example
Mark 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
The message seemed simple enough, so how these could be so clueless about that has sort of baffled me. On the otherhand the importance placed on Johns baptism and how a rejection of it by the Pharisees seems to be the bigger issue for them.
Just something I noticed, I saw your post and thought, maybe I could just add this to your post to squeeze it in here somewhere. I just wanted to mention it if it could be helpful to anyone else.
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I only understand what I believe the Spirit brings me to understand in my conscience., he fills my head with his knowledge..that’s the only way that I can explain it Aunty.
He speaks to my conscience in a way that this world doesn't understand because it doesn't have a relationship with Him. The Holy Spirit makes our conscience sensitive to His leading...imo.
So who then is this Jesus according to you?
1. He existed before the creation of human kind, He came down from heaven (leaving the glory that He had with the Father John 17:5) to live the human life, die for the sins of the world as the blameless lamb without sin, is given all power in heaven and earth, etc. etc.
2. In the OT only God forgave sin, Jesus while on earth forgave sins too, how could He do that, if He isn't God in the human flesh.
So who is Jesus according to you, His origin is not human, He already was before creation with the Father.
3. And when among us He said -
Joh 14:8 Philip said to him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.”
Joh 14:9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
Please can members stop sitting in judgement of one another, this thread moves on so fast and it’s difficult to keep up. In between the accusations there is good debate but if the accusations continue then action will be taken. Also if a member has publicly asked you not to tag them, can you respect that request.
This is so true Aunty, I can see a lot imo of Gods truth coming out of your mouth ,especially when you told me how much Jesus loved his Father, it made me cry in a happy way..any more questions I have, I will get back to you.
Amen to that
And as for additions, in the OT only specific persons received the Holy Spirit, the prophets, David, Moses etc.
In the NT -- by the Grace of God and the work of Christ -- the Holy Spirit is for everyone who wants to believe.
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Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
The same Jesus that the Bible speaks of…not the one invented by the Catholic Church…
Yes…that is what the Bible says….Matthew 28:18 even says that “all authority” was “given” to Jesus….which if he was God, makes no sense at all. God already has all authority. He also gave Jesus authority to forgive sins on earth. (Matt 9:6) In order for God to give these things to his son, it means that he did not have them before.
In the OT sins were forgiven by means of the blood sacrifices offered at the Temple…with that sacrifice came the temporary forgiveness of sins, offered on their behalf by the High Priest.
The sin offerings were regular because atonement with animal blood was not enough, but it was sufficient to allow Israel to understand that without blood (the very symbol of life) being poured out, no forgiveness was possible. (Heb 9:22) The permanent blood sacrifice was to come, and with Christ’s death, Adam’s debt was paid in full, permanently.
Who sent Christ to die for us….? It was his Father who offered his son’s sinless life for ours.
How can an immortal God become a mere mortal and die? How can wicked humans kill God?
Nowhere does the Bible say that “Jesus is Yahweh” as some here have claimed.
The meaning of his designation as God’s “only begotten son” means that he is the first and only direct creation of his God and Father. He existed “before all things” but not before the one who created him.
He is “the beginning of God’s creation”. (Rev 3:14) He called his Father “my God”, even after his return to heaven. (Rev 3:12) Can God have a God? Perhaps you can tell me how that is possible if Jesus is God?
If Jesus said that “I and the Father are one” what did he mean? Did he mean one entity with three heads, who can all think and act independently? One part of God knows things that the other doesn’t? One part of God has a different will to the other? One part of God prays to the other but that is never reversed.
The Holy Spirit is barely mentioned in company with the other two, who are all supposedly, equally God?
If we look at John 17:21-22, Jesus prayed regarding his followers: “That they may all be one,” and he added, “that they may be one even as we are one.” Were the disciples part of the godhead too? This is talking about unity of spirit and purpose. Just like a married couple are said to be “one flesh”…they never become the same person.
Paul describes the Father and son in Col 1:15-17…..he is clearly describing the son as “the image” of his father…note that Jesus is a visible human being whilst his Father is invisible….so how can a visible human be the image of someone who is invisible?
And besides this John tells us that “no man has ever seen God”….(John 1:18) was he contradicting himself just 17 verses after he said that “the Word was God”? But is that what he really said? Read in the Greek, the answer is….No!
Paul also called Jesus “God’s holy servant” (Acts 4:27, 30) Is God also his own servant? Is he his own High Priest?(Heb 3:1) How much scripture do you need to see how ridiculous this doctrine is…..nowhere does either God or his son mention a triune nature that makes them one God.
If there was one direct statement from either God or his son that they share any kind of equal deity with the holy spirit, then this thread would have died at the beginning…but here we are 161 pages in and the argument is still ongoing….
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Any time….grateful that God has led you to this very important truth.
Oh grief, you can keep those Sardines in the can, I don’t want ‘em!! LOL!
This thread is getting to be just about as useful!
Have a good day, y’all.
John 3:16-18
16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 “For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. 18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
The term "trinity" (or a 3=1 deity) is found nowhere in the Bible. Nor is the concept of the "trinity" found in the Bible.
The two ADDITIONS in the Bible of the terminology "Father, Son (or Word) and Holy Spirit/Ghost" in some translations (Matt. 28:19; 1 John 5:7) are likewise are NOT found in the original Biblical text. How can we be certain of this?
IF Christ-Jesus commanded the disciples to go out and baptize others in the "Father, Son and Holy Spirit" as some translations allege, then 100% of the disciples and all of the apostles in the New Covenant/Testament disobeyed that command. A thorough and truthful study of this may be found at the following link (no personal affiliation with this denomination):
Original text in context should read as follows (where the name/title "Jesus" means "The Saviour"):
Matthew 28:18-20
28:18 And Jesus came and spoke unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
28:19 Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them with the Holy Spirit: in my name (The Saviour),
28:20 Instructing them to observe (and DO) all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, [even] unto the end of the world (age). Amen.
The second use in some translations of trinitarian wording is found in 1 John 5:7 , which similarly didn't appear in the original Greek manuscripts, and has become so infamous that its addition in the 16th century by the Roman Catholic church that found its way into the reformation Bible translations (including the KJV) has been given the name "the Johannine Comma".
en.wikipedia.org
From the KJV 1611 with the inserted text denoted in square brackets and boldfaced:
1 John 5:7-8
7For there are three that beare record [in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.] 8[And there are three that beare witnesse in earth], the Spirit, and the Water, and the Blood, and these three agree in one.
In context, this passage should read as follows (from the original Greek manuscripts):
1 John 5:6-8
5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, [even] Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is Truth.
5:7 For there are three that bear record,
5:8 The Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
There are literally hundreds of verses in the New Covenant/Testament confirming the fact that God (our heavenly Father) created Christ, which is why Christ is NOT equal to God, is subservient to God, was taught everything by God, was given all power by God, is considered to be God's heir as His firstborn/first-created Son/Angel, etc.
The two ADDITIONS in the Bible of the terminology "Father, Son (or Word) and Holy Spirit/Ghost" in some translations (Matt. 28:19; 1 John 5:7) are likewise are NOT found in the original Biblical text. How can we be certain of this?
IF Christ-Jesus commanded the disciples to go out and baptize others in the "Father, Son and Holy Spirit" as some translations allege, then 100% of the disciples and all of the apostles in the New Covenant/Testament disobeyed that command. A thorough and truthful study of this may be found at the following link (no personal affiliation with this denomination):
Was Matthew 28:19 Added To The Bible
Does Matthew 29:19 have added text and do we baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost or into the name of Jesus Christ only?
www.trinitytruth.org
Original text in context should read as follows (where the name/title "Jesus" means "The Saviour"):
Matthew 28:18-20
28:18 And Jesus came and spoke unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
28:19 Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them with the Holy Spirit: in my name (The Saviour),
28:20 Instructing them to observe (and DO) all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, [even] unto the end of the world (age). Amen.
The second use in some translations of trinitarian wording is found in 1 John 5:7 , which similarly didn't appear in the original Greek manuscripts, and has become so infamous that its addition in the 16th century by the Roman Catholic church that found its way into the reformation Bible translations (including the KJV) has been given the name "the Johannine Comma".
Johannine Comma - Wikipedia
From the KJV 1611 with the inserted text denoted in square brackets and boldfaced:
1 John 5:7-8
7For there are three that beare record [in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.] 8[And there are three that beare witnesse in earth], the Spirit, and the Water, and the Blood, and these three agree in one.
In context, this passage should read as follows (from the original Greek manuscripts):
1 John 5:6-8
5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, [even] Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is Truth.
5:7 For there are three that bear record,
5:8 The Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
There are literally hundreds of verses in the New Covenant/Testament confirming the fact that God (our heavenly Father) created Christ, which is why Christ is NOT equal to God, is subservient to God, was taught everything by God, was given all power by God, is considered to be God's heir as His firstborn/first-created Son/Angel, etc.
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