Exploring Trinitarian Logic

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Taken

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May not fully understand but Jesus said we will see God if pure in heart.
Matthew 5:8
Blessed are the pure in heart, For they shall see God. And that includes seeing Him as He IS. As the I AM. Just like the holy angels do.

We are pure in heart if born of God as we have a new spirit within us that God created according to righteousness and holiness.
And we continue to believe

Hebrews 12:14
Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord:

Correct “with a caveat”.

Some WILL cross the finish Line “without” understanding.

Some WILL be heading to the finish line…but unable to Control their Mouth And Speak forth Things in Direct Contrast to Gods Word.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Ritajanice

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…I also find what you find what you say Laughable (in a pitiful way.)
I need say no more.when you’re ready to speak in the Spirit, I’ll be waiting.LOL.your immaturity in spiritual matters show.LOL.
 
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J

Johann

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So?
No one Said to Reason WITH God!




It…? A man Born Again in the Spirit and you are claiming the man Is Without ANY awareness.
?

:laughing:





I noticed.


Eph 5:

[17] Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.



You already asked that and was answered.
Pass by-the person is stunted @Taken.

J.
 

Ritajanice

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1 Corinthians 2:14

King James Version

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
 

Ritajanice

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Agree.
So tired of the superiority game of the Unitarians.

@Wrangler agree? ...Unitarian Christians affirm the unitary nature of God as the singular and unique creator of the universe, believe that Jesus Christ was inspired by God in his moral teachings and that he is the savior of humankind, but he is not equal to God himself..
 
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Wick Stick

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Thank for responding. I don't see how "one" means "the unity of many in one." The meaning of "One" just does not carry that implication. Whether "God is one" is a numerical declaration or a substantive declaration, or both, either way it doesn't support your "meaning."
Depends on the context....

A statement of "the Lord is One" doesn't seem to carry that implication (at least in English).

But what about "I and My Father are One?" There's something going on in that statement that doesn't match up very well with elementary-school mathematics.
 

St. SteVen

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A statement of "the Lord is One" doesn't seem to carry that implication (at least in English).
What does that even mean?

Deuteronomy 6:4 NIV
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.[a]

Footnote​

Or The Lord our God is one Lord; or The Lord is our God, the Lord is one;
or The Lord is our God, the Lord alone

[
 

Taken

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I need say no more.when you’re ready to speak in the Spirit, I’ll be waiting.LOL.your immaturity in spiritual matters show.LOL.

John 3:
[12] If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
 
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Ritajanice

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John 3:
[12] If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

John 3:3-8​

King James Version​

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

The Enduring Word
(Isaiah 40:6–8)

22Since you have purified your souls by obedience to the truth so that you have a genuine love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from a pure heart.e 23For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. 24For,

“All flesh is like grass,

and all its glory like the flowers of the field;

the grass withers and the flowers fall,

25but the word of the Lord stands forever.”f

And this is the word that was proclaimed to you.

Romans 8​

King James Version​

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
 
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St. SteVen

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Jesus is God inscription found.

1734382741865.jpeg


[ cc: @Scott Downey Is this the correct image?
 

Wick Stick

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What does that even mean?

Deuteronomy 6:4 NIV
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.[a]
I tried to explain this in a topic about a month ago, and people got out their pitchforks and torches. Nonetheless, here goes...
For Reference:
Hebrew: שְׁמַע יִשְׂרָאֵל יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵינוּ יְהוָה אֶחָד׃
Hebrew, transliterated: Shema Israel, YHVH Elohim, YHVH Echad
Traditional translation: Hear O Israel, [the] LORD [our] God, [the] LORD [is] one.
There are a couple... issues... in the verse.

First, Elohim isn't necessarily singular, in spite of the usual translation.

Second, Hebrew grammar demands that the last 4 words form a parallelism - that is, these 2 statements should have the same meaning:
יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵינוּ LORD gods
יְהוָה אֶחָד LORD one

So, it turns out we have another case in which a plural word (gods) is directly equated with the number one.

Last time some people took issue with me for suggesting that it might instead be translated like this:

"Listen [up], Israel. I AM [all your] gods. I AM one."
 
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Wrangler

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So tired of the superiority game of the Unitarians.

What superiority game? Some ideas are simply wrong. None more obvious than the trinity.

I don’t recall you addressing the ABC’s and 123’s. Why is that?

@Wrangler agree? ...Unitarian Christians affirm the unitary nature of God as the singular and unique creator of the universe, believe that Jesus Christ was inspired by God in his moral teachings and that he is the savior of humankind, but he is not equal to God himself..
Yup.
 

St. SteVen

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Last time some people took issue with me for suggesting that it might instead be translated like this:

"Listen [up], Israel. I AM [all your] gods. I AM one."
Thanks.
I wonder if it could loosely mean, Israel, you don't need all those others gods (idols), I am the one for you.

[
 

David in NJ

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What does that even mean?

Deuteronomy 6:4 NIV
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.[a]

Footnote​

Or The Lord our God is one Lord; or The Lord is our God, the Lord is one;
or The Lord is our God, the Lord alone

[
Now look up the Shema in Hebrew - use Strong's on Biblehub - easy
 
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Wick Stick

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Thanks.
I wonder if it could loosely mean, Israel, you don't need all those others gods (idols), I am the one for you.

[
I read it as a gnostic statement. More of...

"Hey guys, you know all those different 'gods' that you worship? Those are all just aspects of ME."
 
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St. SteVen

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I read it as a gnostic statement. More of...

"Hey guys, you know all those different 'gods' that you worship? Those are all just aspects of ME."
Oh... that's curious.
I expected a more critical view of "idolatry". (polytheism)
How did you arrive at that conclusion?
How would the other gods be an aspect of the one supreme God?

Does this call into question the first Commandment of the Ten?

[
 

David in NJ

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I read it as a gnostic statement. More of...

"Hey guys, you know all those different 'gods' that you worship? Those are all just aspects of ME."
What "different gods" ???

the FATHER is Elohim
the SON is Elohim
the HOLY SPIRIT is Elohim

Are we not to worship the True and Living Elohim???

i pray to the Lord Jesus Christ
i pray to my FATHER who is in Heaven
i pray in the Holy Spirit and pray for His Guidance as promised/prophesied by JESUS in the Gospel

Ecclesiastes 4:12 - A person standing alone can be attacked and defeated, but two can stand back-to-back and conquer.
Three are even better, for a triple-braided cord is not easily broken.
 
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