I find it interesting that the Second Council of Constantinople, in the mid-sixth century, referenced a pair of nativities: "If anyone will not confess that the Word of God has two nativities, that which is before all ages from the Father, outside time and without a body, and secondly that nativity of these latter days when the Word of God came down from the heavens and was made flesh of holy and glorious Mary, mother of God and ever-virgin, and was born from her: let him be anathema." Should we read this as proclaiming a pair of begettings?
THE Trinity can Now be discussed.
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David in NJ
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Let's SEE how this plays out
The FATHER could be considered 'liquid'
The SON could be considered 'solid' = the Word became flesh
The HOLY SPIRIT could be considered 'gas'
All from the same Water Supply
Proverbs 30 and the Son as Creator with the Father
1 The words of Agur the son of Jakeh, his utterance. This man declared to Ithiel—to Ithiel and Ucal:
2 Surely I am more stupid than any man,
And do not have the understanding of a man.
3 I neither learned wisdom
Nor have knowledge of the Holy One.
4 Who has ascended into heaven, or descended?
Who has gathered the wind in His fists?
Who has bound the waters in a garment?
Who has established all the ends of the earth?
What is His name, and what is His Son’s name,
If you know?
5 Every word of God is [a]pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
6 Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.
1 The words of Agur the son of Jakeh, his utterance. This man declared to Ithiel—to Ithiel and Ucal:
2 Surely I am more stupid than any man,
And do not have the understanding of a man.
3 I neither learned wisdom
Nor have knowledge of the Holy One.
4 Who has ascended into heaven, or descended?
Who has gathered the wind in His fists?
Who has bound the waters in a garment?
Who has established all the ends of the earth?
What is His name, and what is His Son’s name,
If you know?
5 Every word of God is [a]pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
6 Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Are you sure of this? Would you place your life on that belief?
Have you carefully read, studied and above all prayed and submitted your heart, mind/intellect and soul to HIM in seeking Truth?
Very few do, which is the main reason for all the denominations and confusion.
SEE - John 8:13-18
The Pharisees therefore said to Him, “You bear witness of Yourself; Your witness is not true.”
Jesus answered and said to them, “Even if I bear witness of Myself, My witness is true, for I know where I came from and where I am going; but you do not know where I come from and where I am going. You judge according to the flesh; I judge no one.
And yet if I do judge, My judgment is true; for I am not alone, but I am with the Father who sent Me.
It is also written in your law that the testimony of two men is true.
I am One who bears witness of Myself, and the Father who sent Me bears witness of Me.”
Wrangler
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I’m sure I explained this many times. Nothing about the trinity. And try reading the whole chapter to u understand the verse in context.You have to ignore a number of scriptures like this one to reach that conclusion
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Heb 1:8 - But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness isthe sceptre of thy kingdom.
Long ago God spoke many times and in many ways to our ancestors through the prophets.
2 And now in these final days, he has spoken to us through his Son. God promised everything to the Son as an inheritance, and through the Son he created the universe.
3 The Son radiates God’s own glory and expresses the very character of God, and he sustains everything by the mighty power of his command. When he had cleansed us from our sins, he sat down in the place of honor at the right hand of the majestic God in heaven.
4 This shows that the Son is far greater than the angels, just as the name God gave him is greater than their names.
The Son Is Greater Than the Angels
5 For God never said to any angel what he said to Jesus:“You are my Son.
Today I have become your Father.[a]”
God also said,
“I will be his Father,
and he will be my Son.”[b]
6 And when he brought his supreme[c] Son into the world, God said,[d]
Now, getting to ‘o God,’ it an abbreviation for OF God. In no language is the preposition ‘OF’ synonymous with ‘IS.’
Finally, it is God’s throne no matter who sits in it. This is affirmed in Revelation 1:1. The resurrected Jesus, sitting on God’s throne in heaven is STILL not God! God gave Jesus the revelation.
Brakelite
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I think about that also. I do believe that at some stage in eternity, (surely there are points of time in eternity where part and future are differentiated?) the Son was begotten. I liken it to Daniel 2:45 where the rock, (which is Christ at the second coming) is "cut out of the mountain without hands". The Rock has the substance or nature of the mountain, but has a beginning of its own personality. I know that doesn't fit well with traditional Trinitarian creeds, but seems to fit well with Jesus own repeated word, that He came forth of the Father, came out from God, etc.
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I am dead anyway; should I stake my life on belief or faith, belief with action. I am no more saved than thou is.
Prayer solves nothing. And God generally doesn't speak to the living.
Without his Father's testimony, Jesus would have been just another human being.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
WOW - you need to get out of there FAST and receive Grace from Above
If you allow the Lord to come into your heart, HE will bring you to Life just as HE did for me!!!
Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door,
I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me
His Promise to you - Revelation 3:20
You will need when you are a corpse too. Don't be silly.
[Rev 21:7 KJV] 7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
He won't be your God till your dead. It's called original sin.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
JESUS came to wash away 'original' sin and ALL sins that mankind has committed.
JESUS resurrects our spirit from spiritual death while the physical body remains under the curse of physical death.
Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’
The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes.
So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
Only the Father wakes those who are rotted dead. Spiritual death would be total death, and I don't believe we were created live in eternal punishment. Thus, even the wicked are corrected by God, except Satan and his angels who were unreformable since the day that they were born.
face2face
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Aunty Jane
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The alternative rendering of that verse, which is in agreement with Greek phraseology is…You have to ignore a number of scriptures like this one to reach that conclusion
Tools
Heb 1:8 - But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness isthe sceptre of thy kingdom.
”God is thy throne”….
This is in agreement with Rev 3:21…..
”He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.” (Rev 3:21 NASB)
The verse after Heb 1:8 reveals that the one spoken about has a God who anointed him….
”But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.” (ESV)
This one has companions…..does God have companions? Jesus certainly did.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
When i believed JESUS, HE raised my spirit from death unto eternal Life.
BEST part is that HE will do this for you as well = IF you BELIEVE
Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment.
Indeed, he has crossed over from death to life. - John 5:24
Run to the LORD Jesus Christ Today - don't wait another day or hour or minute!!!
Hey that's a winning proposal.
Honestly that comment stemmed from a couple of responses I received to my posts. I especially love comments like
"
Are you serious? How does a dismembered body function? The body of Christ must be united as Paul said…
Or this one
Calling yourself a Christian doesn’t make you one….any more than calling yourself a doctor makes you a physician.
Or this one
Is there no logic that can counter the indoctrination that goes with this ingrained belief, centuries old….but which was never true?
I have to wonder if you hear yourselves?
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