THE Trinity can Now be discussed.

[Ritajanice]

Look at this verse.,I’m staying focused on genesis.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

I’m Him was life ,see, whose life came into the world?

 

[Scott Downey]

You need to take up your disagreement of the scriptures with the LORD.


For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. Colossians 1:16

And that also proves Christ has been there pre-existant with the Father in glory.
Some have been saying he had no pre-existance.

 

[RLT63]

Those verses are not saying that Jesus was fully God, because he was Born from God’s seed..

Jesus could not fully be God...there is only one God His Name is Father God...we are to only worship him.

.we thank him, as he did his Father’s will while on earth...the more I think about your understanding of Jesus the more bizarre it becomes.

We worship the Lord through Jesus...is there any scripture that specifically says that we are to worship JESUS

You're not reading what it says. Read verse 1.

 

[RLT63]

Ok ,well I believe that God is the word as the word was there in the beginning , the word God sent forth out of his mouth a seed, that seed which was a Living seed..impregnated Mary womb, where it started to grow...that’s my understanding of it at the moment..my mind is 100% open to change...but, only by the power of the Holy Spirit..not anyone’s opinion that comes from man/ woman.

The Word was with God, so God was with himself?

 

[RLT63]

No, I ‘made my case’ based on Jesus’ response / rebuttal to them.

No you were defining what God meant, it was the Jews who said Jesus made himself God

 

[RLT63]

No. Verses 14 and 15 confirms Jesus is the prophet Moses told them about, where God's words would be put in the mouth of one of the people he choose. See v 45.

The Word became flesh and he was the one John the Baptist prepared the way for.
The Word is Jesus. Jesus is the Word

 

[Ritajanice]

The Word was with God, so God was with himself?

I just posted what it meant...the word was God, Jesus was predestined to become the word in the flesh.

Flesh is not God...Jesus was not in God from the beginning..he was Born Of God’s seed..the seed is not God ,plus his Living seed had to germinate / penetrate Mary egg and grow in Mary womb

 

[Ritajanice]

You're not reading what it says. Read verse 1.

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The word was with God, because Jesus was predestined / chosen by God to come forth out of his mouth a seed, a Living seed, that seed was Jesus...

The word was God in the flesh, his word came down as a seed and grew in Mary’s womb..Jesus proclaimed the word of God...the word ( God) spoke through Jesus...

He was Born Of God’s seed...Jesus that was..anyway I’m asking the Lord to keep my mind open and wait on him for more spiritual understanding on the matter.

 

[Ritajanice]

God formed the heavens etc, he also formed Jesus in the womb as he was growing ..like I said, I may contradict myself, as my mind is open and I’m getting all sorts of thoughts entering my mind..then I type them out...I refuse to keep a closed mind on the matter.

 

[Brakelite]

You are deliberately confusing generic types of life forms with a specific, Supreme Being, whose name is YHWH - not Jesus.

Wasn't it God Himself Who designed the entire paradigm after His own likeness? Begetting your own kind? If God begets a child, what kind of species/ type/ form do you expect? Either Jesus is God's only begotten Son or He isn't. Jane denies that outright, trying to claim begetting can mean creating. Despite her stating that every... single... time begetting, when used elsewhere, is in relation to a literal child born.
Is the real issue your struggle with accepting the pre- existence of Christ? I'm not sure.

 

[Scott Downey]

If the Word was God, and the Word was made flesh, then worshipping Jesus is fine and right as you are worshipping God.
And the apostles did worship Christ.


1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not [a]comprehend it.

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

According to scripture, this is true. For us, anytime we see the word God used, you can often view this as Father, Son, Spirit together. When scripture says the Father, then that is more specific. When you read Son, Spirit also more specific distinction is being made.

 

[Brakelite]

I was given a KJV when I was 10 years old….I couldn’t understand it at all. No one I knew spoke like that. “Readily understood by a child”?….it’s not readily understood by many adults.

There is a difference between “divinity” and “deity”….”theos” is used of angels, human judges, false gods and Jesus Christ.
Strongs defines “theos” as….

1. a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities

It can also mean….

1. spoken of the only and true God
   1. refers to the things of God
   2. his counsels, interests, things due to him
2. whatever can in any respect be likened unto God, or resemble him in any way
   1. God's representative or viceregent
      1. of magistrates and judges

So an interesting variety of meaning attached to the one word that trinitarians believe cannot mean anything but “God” with a capital “G”. Read in Greek it is a different story.

The use of the definite article (ho) in John 1:1, refers to Yahweh as the one the Word was “with”….but absence of the definite article in the second mention of “theos” demonstrates that this “theos” was not God…but divine, or divinely appointed. John 1:1 is a poor proof text, badly translated.


But in actuality he didn’t. Christ in his pre human existence was “divine” (no question) but not “deity”….that would have been a breach of the first Commandment.
He was not worshipped by angels or men.
He never once said he was God, but only ever called himself “the son of God”.


That is true, since the word “theos“ in Greek as stated above means….
“a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities”…. It is not a word that pertains exclusively to Yahweh. Even satan is called “theos” in 2 Cor 4:4.

No he did not call Christ our Creator….not one single scripture says that Jesus is the Creator….God is. He did so through his firstborn son, it’s called agency. The judges in Israel were sinful humans and God himself called them “theos”…..(John 10:31-36) What kind of “gods” were they? God’s representatives.
What did Jesus call himself…?

Anyone who thinks the trinity is simple never had to wade through a thread like this…! Theologians don’t even understand it, they can’t explain it, and have no scriptural evidence for it.

I'm not posting in support of the trinity. I thought you'd read enough of my posts by now to understand that. My concern is that people accept the literal Father/ Son relationship between JHWH and Jesus.

 

[Scott Downey]

If Christ's apostles worshipped Jesus Christ, and also did the angels of God, then I don't see what the problem is with someone worshiping Jesus Christ, do you?
What's the objection, there is no basis for such.

You are not smarter or better than them. You are actually in a worse position to make a judgement as you don't have their direct knowledge and experiences. Angels for one thing directly see them in heaven and know.

Satan is one being who will not willingly worship Christ, he demanded Christ worship him, you don't want to be like the devil do you?

 

[Ritajanice]

Jesus is God's only begotten Son

Therefore spiritual ?

 

[Scott Downey]

Christ is the savior
The living God is the savior
Therefore Christ is the Living God

Isaiah 45:21
Tell and bring forth your case; Yes, let them take counsel together. Who has declared this from ancient time? Who has told it from that time? Have not I, the Lord? And there is no other God besides Me, A just God and a Savior; There is none besides Me.

Luke 2:11
For there is born to you this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.

1 Timothy 4

A Good Servant of Jesus Christ​

6 If you instruct the brethren in these things, you will be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished in the words of faith and of the good doctrine which you have carefully followed. 7 But reject profane and old wives’ fables, and exercise yourself toward godliness. 8 For bodily exercise profits a little, but godliness is profitable for all things, having promise of the life that now is and of that which is to come. 9 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance. 10 For to this end [c]we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe. 11 These things command and teach.

Luke 1:47
And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior.

Acts 5:31
Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.

Acts 13
22 And when He had removed him, He raised up for them David as king, to whom also He gave testimony and said, ‘I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after My own heart, who will do all My will.’ 23 From this man’s seed, according to the promise, God raised up for Israel a[a] Savior—Jesus— 24 after John had first preached, before His coming, the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.

2 Timothy 1:10
but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,

Titus 1:4
To Titus, a true son in our common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Savior.

 

[Scott Downey]

Titus 2:10
not pilfering, but showing all good fidelity, that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Savior in all things.

Titus 2:13
looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,

 

[Scott Downey]

2 Peter 1
Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

 

[Brakelite]

Therefore spiritual ?

Several times the scripture says God sent His Son... several times Jesus said, He came out from God... why do people insist that Jesus wasn't a Son until Bethlehem? I don't know what you mean by spiritual. Spirits aren't some formless floating clouds, they have a form...a shape. They are beings, just different from humans. But Jesus, along with God's Father, chose to take upon Himself human flesh, so that He could die in our place. And He will be human forever. Before Jesus had no limitations within His infinite existence, but now, by self sacrifice and love for mankind, He is now forever limited to the human flesh He adopted. Different of course from the flesh we have now, for resurrected flesh is now immortal, can never age, die, feel pain, get sick, or tire. Probably capable of a some pretty clever stuff as well, mummy of which is going to be a surprise. But nevertheless, Jesus is now forever human, but still worthy of worship and adoration and His many titles and names... He is still the I Am.

 

[RLT63]

I just posted what it meant...the word was God, Jesus was predestined to become the word in the flesh.

Flesh is not God...Jesus was not in God from the beginning..he was Born Of God’s seed..the seed is not God ,plus his Living seed had to germinate / penetrate Mary egg and grow in Mary womb

Post the verse that says Jesus was born of God's seed

 

[Ritajanice]

? I don't know what you mean by spiritual. Spirits aren't some formless floating clouds

If Jesus was Born Of God’s seed..then when he reached the time to preach, then how else could he hear from God?

God is Spirit..we are also spirit children..how else can we communicate with God?

The Bible is not God.,I hope you understand this.