THE Trinity can Now be discussed.

[keithr]

The Hebrew word for "one" in the Shema is 'echad'

Echad is used when 'one' is a plurality that acts as ONE UNIT

The Shema is more evidence of the Plurality of Elohim that includes the Son who is LORD

JESUS said this over and over again in His Gospel = "I and My Father are One"

Right , like in this verse - Song of Solomon 6:9 (KJV):

(9) My dove, my undefiled is but one [echad]; she is the only one [echad] of her mother, she is the choice one of her that bare her. The daughters saw her, and blessed her; yea, the queens and the concubines, and they praised her.​

The word echad is translated as 'one' 687 times in the KJV. It means "one"!

 

[Brakelite]

It says what it says….why question a clear unequivocal statement?

Perhaps we need to explore the word “begotten” to clear up this misinterpretation?
The word is “monogenes” and as it indicates, “mono” means singular.

Strongs defines “monogenes” as….

1. single of its kind, only
   1. used of only sons or daughters (viewed in relation to their parents)
   2. used of Christ, denotes the only begotten son of God”

So the son of God is a singular being….one of a kind.…unique as a first and only direct creation of his Father.

This word is not unique to Christ however, but is used elsewhere in Scripture to identify “an only child”.
If you recall two of the resurrections performed by Jesus personally, both involved children who were described as “only begotten” (monogenes). On another occasion, a man with a demon possessed son said he was his “only begotten“. (Luke7:11-12; 8:41-42; 9:38)
Abraham referred to Isaac as his “only begotten son”. (Heb 11:17)
Claiming that it means something else to support a false belief, is without foundation.

All of those “begotten“ had fathers who “begat” them and who necessarily existed before them.

Perhaps the most interesting observation to help us understand the meaning of the entire suffix “-genes” (“-γενής”) in “monogenes” is to see other Greek words where this suffix exists. Notice how, when added to the prefix, in each case and without a single exception, “-genes” results in the meaning of “born, begotten”. All of the following are adjectives, just like “monogenes”:
homogenes (ὁμογενής): someone who was born together (“homo-”) with others: “of the same race or family”. Today, this word is used to mean those Greeks who were born outside of Greece (e.g., in the USA, Australia, Russia, or wherever else in the world) but belong to the Greek nation due to their Greek ancestry.

heterogenes (ἑτερογενής): the opposite of homogenes: born of a different (“hetero-”) race or family.

eugenes (εὐγενής): born of noble ancestry, hence: noble, an aristocrat. This is the root of the word “eugenics”, the study of hereditary improvement of the human race by controlled selective breeding.

endogenes (ἐνδογενής): someone or something that has been generated from within (“endo-”) some greater whole; endogenous, inherent, intrinsic. A common use is in endogenes aitia = “intrinsic cause”.

engenes (ἐγγενής): similar to endogenes, it means “intrinsic”. Again, we can talk of an engenes aitia = intrinsic cause

thnisigenes (θνησιγενής): someone or something destined to die (“thnisi-”) no sooner than he/she/it is born. A thnisigenes child is one that is born but has such serious medical problems that the child cannot hope to avoid death. More often, this word is used metaphorically, for, e.g., an agreement: a thnisigenes symphonía (θνησιγενής συμφωνία) is an agreement destined to collapse soon after it is made.

diogenes (διογενής): born/sprung from Zeus. The true root of the word “Zeus” is “Dio-” (e.g., in the genitive case: Dios = of Zeus; a cognate of Theos = God, and of Latin Deus). This adjective was used as a flattering title for kings and princes. This was the origin of the name “Diogenes” (Διογένης, stressed on the penult).

protogenes (πρωτογενής): born originally, the initially born entity or cause.  gegenes (γηγενής): born in the land (ge-, γῆ = gaea), a native of the land.

Adding to the above list, we could write: monogenes (μονογενής): born as a single son or daughter, lacking siblings.”

 

[Ritajanice]

Jesus made reference to his Father in heaven. That would be God the Father.
God the Father made reference to his Son, Jesus. That would be God the Son.
The Holy Spirit testifies with our spirit. That would be God the Holy Spirit

Yes, they both came from the seed of God..they are not God...Jesus was Born to the Virgin Mary,she conceived Jesus through God’s seed ,he sent his seed from out of his mouth.into Mary’s womb, the seed fertilised her egg, Jesus started growing as a fetus in her womb...

Once again my opinion.,
We are Born Of God, His seed ( Holy Spirit) remains in us.

 

[Brakelite]

NO!

No what? That Jesus is the fountain of life,?
“For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water. ”
Jeremiah 2:13 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

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“10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water. 11 The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water? 12 Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle? 13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: 14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life. ”
John 4:10-14 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

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No I did not inherit my mother’s or father’s nature.

You are human. Humans beget humans. Dogs beget dogs. Cats beget cats. God begot a Son. What else could He be except God? God sent His Son to become human. God begotten. Fully God, fully human. Two natures blended. Forever. That was the greater sacrifice of the Father and Son, the Son losing forever God's divine infinite body and taking on the limited finite body of men.

 

[Ritajanice]

No what? That Jesus is the fountain of life,?

By whose witness, do you know that Jesus is the foundation of life?

“For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water. ”
Jeremiah 2:13 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

“10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water. 11 The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water? 12 Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle? 13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: 14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life. ”
John 4:10-14 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

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No idea what you are trying to say using this scripture?

You are human. Humans beget humans. Dogs beget dogs. Cats beget cats. God begot a Son. What else could He be except God? God sent His Son to become human. God begotten. Fully God, fully human. Two natures blended. Forever

Not biblical that Jesus had 2 natures.,my nature was not that of my father’s, it grew independently of his in my mothers womb...I was Born Of my father’s seed.


I am now a partaker Of the divine nature, how would I know that?

. That was the greater sacrifice of the Father and Son, the Son losing forever God's divine infinite body and taking on the limited finite body of men.

Don’t agree.plus non biblical.

 

[Ritajanice]

“For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water. ”
Jeremiah 2:13 KJV

How do you know that this scripture came from God..no point posting scripture verses..if you don’t know who the Living witness of Gods truth is.?

The Bible ain’t the Living witness you know.

 

[Scott Downey]

Right , like in this verse - Song of Solomon 6:9 (KJV):

(9) My dove, my undefiled is but one [echad]; she is the only one [echad] of her mother, she is the choice one of her that bare her. The daughters saw her, and blessed her; yea, the queens and the concubines, and they praised her.​

The word echad is translated as 'one' 687 times in the KJV. It means "one"!

I and My Father are One

Proves the One God, in this case one plus one equals one and it is the mystery of godliness.

There is also ONE body of Christ composed of many millions of persons.

 

[keithr]

17 Therefore do not be unwise, but understand what the will of the Lord is. 18 And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit, 19 speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord, 20 giving thanks always for all things to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, 21 submitting to one another in the fear of [f]God.

v17, whose will, Father or Son? I say both.

I say God, the Father. The NT Peshitta translates it as:

17. Therefore do not be stupid, but understanding what the will of God is.​

18. Neither be drunk with wine in which is debauchery, but be filled with The Spirit.​

19. But speak to yourselves in Psalms and hymns and songs of The Spirit; be singing in your hearts to THE LORD JEHOVAH.​

20. Be giving thanks always for the sake of every person in the name of Our Lord Yeshua The Messiah to God The Father.​

Since we don't define God as the Father only, I can say God is both the Father and the Son. So v21 is reference to both Father and Son, not just Father.
and v20 includes them both as Father and Son

I do define God as the Father only (His name is YHVH, and YHVH is one, not three - Deuteronomy 6:4), like Jesus and Paul said:

John 17 (WEB):

(1) Jesus said these things, and lifting up his eyes to heaven, he said, “Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may also glorify you;​

(3) This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.​

1 Corinthians 8:6 (WEB):

(6) yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we live through him.​

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
Jesus made reference to his Father in heaven. That would be God the Father.
God the Father made reference to his Son, Jesus. That would be God the Son.
The Holy Spirit testifies with our spirit. That would be God the Holy Spirit

Yes, they both came from the seed of God..they are not God...Jesus was Born to the Virgin Mary,she conceived Jesus through God’s seed ,he sent his seed from out of his mouth.into Mary’s womb, the seed fertilised her egg, Jesus started growing as a fetus in her womb...

Once again my opinion.,
We are Born Of God, His seed ( Holy Spirit) remains in us.

It's interesting how much agreement there is in all the seeming disagreement on this subject.

It seems that we can all agree that:
- There is one God in heaven above all other gods.
- His Son is Jesus Christ.
- The Holy Spirit ministers on behalf of the Father and of Jesus.

The differences arise in the mechanics of how that all works.

Does that resonate with you? Or what seems bothersome?

[

 

[Scott Downey]

I say God, the Father. The NT Peshitta translates it as:

17. Therefore do not be stupid, but understanding what the will of God is.​

18. Neither be drunk with wine in which is debauchery, but be filled with The Spirit.​

19. But speak to yourselves in Psalms and hymns and songs of The Spirit; be singing in your hearts to THE LORD JEHOVAH.​

20. Be giving thanks always for the sake of every person in the name of Our Lord Yeshua The Messiah to God The Father.​

I do define God as the Father only (His name is YHVH, and YHVH is one, not three - Deuteronomy 6:4), like Jesus and Paul said:

John 17 (WEB):

(1) Jesus said these things, and lifting up his eyes to heaven, he said, “Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may also glorify you;​

(3) This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.​

1 Corinthians 8:6 (WEB):

(6) yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we live through him.​

For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Of the increase of His government and peace
There will be no end,
Upon the throne of David and over His kingdom,
To order it and establish it with judgment and justice
From that time forward, even forever.
The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

 

[keithr]

I and My Father are One

Proves the One God, in this case one plus one equals one and it is the mystery of godliness.

There is also ONE body of Christ composed of many millions of persons.

God and Jesus are not one in the sense of being one God, one person, one in substance, etc.. Jesus meant that they were in one accord, with the same aims and desires, working for the same thing; they were united in purpose. It does not prove that "one plus one equals one", nor that that 'one plus one plus one equals one'! Jesus also said, John 17:22 (WEB):

(22) The glory which you have given me, I have given to them; that they may be one, even as we are one;​

Barness' Notes explains:

May be one, even as we are one - Not in nature, or in the mode of existence - for this was not the subject of discourse, and would be impossible - but in feeling, in principle, in purpose. Evincing, as the Father and the Son had always done, the same great aim and plan; not pursuing different interests, or counteracting each other’s purposes, or forming parties, but seeking the same ends by the same means. This is the union between the Father and the Son. Always, in the creation, preservation, and redemption of the world, the Father and the Son have sought the same object, and this is to be the model on which Christians should act.​

 

[Taken]

you need a living witness to know God

Matt 18: the Lord Jesus Said;
[20] For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Daily in The Lord Jesus is with my body, with my soul, in my spirit, with The Father, in the Father, IS with me, and with whomever else I I am with or not.
My body is alive, my soul is alive, my spirit is supernaturally alive, The Father is alive, His Spirit is alive, His Word is alive….and we Gathered in Jesus’ Name, often with others, sometimes not with others….but none the Less, I and the Father are always gathered together IN the Lord Jesus’ NAME.

Wrong answer

Irrelevant.
I am neither subject to your opinion or understanding.

I don’t believe that you couldn’t possibly know that God is 3 in one

Irrelevant.
I am neither subject to or bound by your beliefs.

you push your 100% belief in the trinity

Yes, I am in 100% agreement with the:
“Holy, Holy, Holy Lord God Almighty” that HE, IS HE:
Lord JESUS
FATHER God
Almighty POWER: CHRIST.

Yes, I believe in 100% agreement HIS works
ARE:
GREAT and MARVELOUS
and
JUST and TRUE are His ways
And
HE IS my KING.

Rev. 4
[8] Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

Rev.15
[3] Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

you deceiver.

“I AM “ is Aware the deceivED DENY HIS ways Are Just and True.

Gods Spirit in my spirit is not biblical

And so also am “I” aware by your own denying Testimony…

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Scott Downey]

God and Jesus are not one in the sense of being one God, one person, one in substance, etc.. Jesus meant that they were in one accord, with the same aims and desires, working for the same thing; they were united in purpose. It does not prove that "one plus one equals one", nor that that 'one plus one plus one equals one'! Jesus also said, John 17:22 (WEB):

(22) The glory which you have given me, I have given to them; that they may be one, even as we are one;​

Barness' Notes explains:

May be one, even as we are one - Not in nature, or in the mode of existence - for this was not the subject of discourse, and would be impossible - but in feeling, in principle, in purpose. Evincing, as the Father and the Son had always done, the same great aim and plan; not pursuing different interests, or counteracting each other’s purposes, or forming parties, but seeking the same ends by the same means. This is the union between the Father and the Son. Always, in the creation, preservation, and redemption of the world, the Father and the Son have sought the same object, and this is to be the model on which Christians should act.​

The issue of divinity of Christ is true
God says of the Son ,He will be called the Mighty God, the Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace
Christ inherits that from the Father as the Son of God is the designated heir and has received His full inheritance

Hebrews 1:2
has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;

21 There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him.

Now we did not call Him that in the Old Covenant, but we do so in the New Covenant. People back then did not know Him and were only vaguely aware of the Son, but now He has been fully revealed as to His nature.

 

[Ritajanice]

Matt 18: the Lord Jesus Said;
[20] For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Daily in The Lord Jesus is with my body, with my soul, in my spirit, with The Father, in the Father, IS with me, and with whomever else I I am with or not.
My body is alive, my soul is alive, my spirit is supernaturally alive, The Father is alive, His Spirit is alive, His Word is alive….and we Gathered in Jesus’ Name, often with others, sometimes not with others….but none the Less, I and the Father are always gathered together IN the Lord Jesus’ NAME.



Irrelevant.
I am neither subject to your opinion or understanding.



Irrelevant.
I am neither subject to or bound by your beliefs.



Yes, I am in 100% agreement with the:
“Holy, Holy, Holy Lord God Almighty” that HE, IS HE:
Lord JESUS
FATHER God
Almighty POWER: CHRIST.

You can’t be, without His Living testimony...you need God’s witness His Living Holy Spirit, you won’t find him by quoting scripture ...you just post of your own personal opinions, which don’t line up with scripture on how our spirit is reborn.

Says you who called me a non Born Again/ Saint.,you can’t deceive my spirit.lady.

Yes, I believe in 100% agreement HIS works
ARE:
GREAT and MARVELOUS
and
JUST and TRUE are His ways
And
HE IS my KING.

Rev. 4
[8] Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

Rev.15
[3] Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.



“I AM “ is Aware the deceivED DENY HIS ways Are Just and True.



And so also am “I” aware by your own denying Testimony…

Glory to God,
Taken

There you go as suspected no living testimony.

No one can say Jesus is Lord accept by the Holy Spirit = only he can bear witness with our spirit that we are the children of God.

Personal testimonies have no standing..our spirit must be reborn = Spirit gives birth to spirit.

 

[Scott Downey]

Psalm 2

Why do the [a]nations [b]rage,
And the people plot a [c]vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves,
And the rulers take counsel together,
Against the Lord and against His Anointed,[d] saying,
3 “Let us break Their bonds in pieces
And cast away Their cords from us.”
4 He who sits in the heavens shall laugh;
The Lord shall hold them in derision.
5 Then He shall speak to them in His wrath,
And distress them in His deep displeasure:
6 “Yet I have [e]set My King
[f]On My holy hill of Zion.”
7 “I will declare the [g]decree:
The Lord has said to Me,
‘You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.
8 Ask of Me, and I will give You
The nations for Your inheritance,
And the ends of the earth for Your possession.
9 You shall [h]break them with a rod of iron;
You shall dash them to pieces like a potter’s vessel.’ ”
10 Now therefore, be wise, O kings;
Be instructed, you judges of the earth.
11 Serve the Lord with fear,
And rejoice with trembling.
12 [i]Kiss the Son, lest [j]He be angry,
And you perish in the way,
When His wrath is kindled but a little.
Blessed are all those who put their trust in Him.

 

[CadyandZoe]

We are God’s children.

Angels are also sons of God.


Jesus is the only begotten of the Father and therefore Jesus is God; God the Son.


Why would anyone who is a Christian and has the Holy Spirit in them, think that God would beget something other than God.


Human begets human.

Dog begets dog.

God begets God.




I thought everyone learned this elementary truth in Bible school.

The term "begotten" is understood in the context of Jesus' role as the king of Israel. This wording originates from Psalm 2:7, which is a coronation psalm read during the inauguration of a new king of Israel. The psalm is based on the Davidic covenant recorded in 2 Samuel 7, where God declares that Solomon, along with all the other kings of Israel, will be considered a son to Him, and He will be a father to them. The moment when the heir to the throne is anointed is the same moment when God says, "I have begotten you."

Out of all the kings of Israel, Jesus is very special and unique, which is why he is called the "monogenes" son—the one-of-a-kind son. Israel mistakenly assumed that the term "forever" in the context of the Davidic Covenant referred to the unbroken line of kings down through history, but David figured out that God meant to say that he would have a unique son that would live forever. Psalm 144. Hebrews 2:6

 

[Ritajanice]

Jesus was the only person to be born of a mortal mother, Mary, and an immortal father, God the Father. That is why Jesus is called the Only Begotten Son of God.

He came from the seed of God.

 

[St. SteVen]

It seems that we can all agree that:
- There is one God in heaven above all other gods.
- His Son is Jesus Christ.
- The Holy Spirit ministers on behalf of the Father and of Jesus.

Disagreements happen over the deity of Christ and the person of the Holy Spirit.

If Jesus is deity and the Spirit is a person, the result is a Trinity godhead.
Father, Son, and Spirit. God in three persons.

[

 

[Scott Downey]

And to all I say, He, the Son is God

Hebrews 1
8 But to the Son He says:

“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A [a]scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.

Yield to the Truth in the Word.
And if Christ is God, and the Lord God is God, then they are both God, and yet unique persons.

 

[St. SteVen]

Jesus was the only person to be born of a mortal mother, Mary, and an immortal father, God the Father. That is why Jesus is called the Only Begotten Son of God.

He came from the seed of God.

Would you agree that a person that has a human as a mother and God as father is half-human and half-God?
Or even 100% human and 100% God?

[