Scripture is not written to obscure this particular truth, but men have made it so.
THE Trinity can Now be discussed.
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St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
That's not true.
This was probably the first thing we shared with you. Only one of many.
The Word was God. - vs 1
The Word was with God in the beginning. - vs 2
The Word became flesh. - vs 14
God became Jesus, God the Son.
Therefore the Word (which was God) became God the Son. (Jesus)
God the Father remained in heaven.
John 1:1-3, 14
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.
2 He was with God in the beginning.
3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. ...
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.
We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son,
who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
[
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Here is their dilemma, especially @Wrangler
This is what they are refusing - Matthew 3:1-5
At that time the disciples came to Jesus, saying, “Who then is greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”
Then Jesus called a little child to Him, set him in the midst of them, and said, “Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. Whoever receives one little child like this in My name receives Me.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
We are all Yahweh's witenesses.
We are all Yeshua's witenesses.
We are all the Holy Spirit's witenesses.
God is not a name or any perticular god.
You can call Them the Trinity or the Godhead
But there are 3 Gods....no singular.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
Not to my knowledge. And if so, who started it?
Guilty as charged.
[
All in your opinion David.
In deed David..the Holy Spirit.,he’s the living testimony /witness.
The Spirit testifies with our spirit David..the word doesn’t say the Christ testifies with our spirit.
We must be Born Again to see the Kingdom Of God, I have the Holy Spirit residing in my spirit..yet you say you have Jesus indwelling your spirit, sorry I stick with the Living testimony, which is then backed up by the written word.
You do know that you need the Living witness don’t you David?
To say that Jesus is Lord.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Currently you have become a false witness by speaking against the words of God as you just did here.
The Holy Spirit does not say the things you say.
The Spirit testifies with our spirit of the things of Elohim, which you are arguing against.
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
The Holy Spirit witnesses to my spirit..that God is almighty God.
He is also the witness to my spirit of who Jesus was.
He uses me as a vessel to witness to the world that he is a Living Spirit, who is Alive and Active in my spirit / heart.
Prove it David using scripture.
No David, the Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are the children of God...Biblical ..I don’t go by your own spirit as a witness David, you should know that by now.
We are not in Christ Jesus.,not until our spirit is reborn/birthed, David.
We need the Living witness David..so please stop telling me I bear false witness.
Simply believe what is written, this is all that is needful
Then speak as you have believed. Confess Christ before men, and Christ will confess you before the Father as His.
2 Cor 4
13 And since we have the same spirit of faith, according to what is written, “I believed and therefore I spoke,” we also believe and therefore speak, 14 knowing that He who raised up the Lord Jesus will also raise us up with Jesus, and will present us with you. 15 For all things are for your sakes, that grace, having spread through the many, may cause thanksgiving to abound to the glory of God.
Matthew 10:32 “Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
YHWH always speaks the truth.....
Genesis 1:1 - In the beginning, Elohim/Plural created the heavens and the earth.
Genesis 1:2 - The Spirit of Elohim/Plural hovered over the waters
Genesis 1:3 - Elohim Said
SAME 3 - Genesis 1:26 - Let Us make man in Our image according to Our likeness
You can argue all you like = it will never change the TRUTH
BAD place to be residing - "They exchanged the truth about God for a lie......."
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
You just proved, by your own words that you are bearing false witness = "We are not in Christ Jesus"
Who is the authorizes the New Birth = Born Again ???
No it’s not..no one can say Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit..now is that a dead Holy Spirit or a living Holy Spirit?
Lol, David stop evading my questions?
We are in Christ David, so please stop lying.,when we are Born Again.then we are Alive in Christ David and not until.
Ephesians 2:5in Other Translations 5 that even though we were dead because of our sins, he gave us life when he raised Christ from the dead. (It is only by God's grace that you have been saved!) 5 he embraced us. He took our sin-dead lives and made us alive in Christ
we are Alive in Christ...who is not the whole of God.,
He came from the seed of God..he is not the whole of God...he is not the Almighty God!
We are New Testament people not Old Testament people.
We have a greater revelation of God in the New Testament, so simply quoting a lot of OT scriptures is just not the full truth is it.
16 [g]And of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace. 17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
We have a greater revelation of God in the New Testament, so simply quoting a lot of OT scriptures is just not the full truth is it.
16 [g]And of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace. 17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
But who wrote those words?
Who spoke them to men to be written down?
The Holy Spirit.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Hebrews 4
1 Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, [a]not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. 3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said:
“So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest,’ ”
although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; 5 and again in this place: “They shall not enter My rest.”
6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, 7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said:
“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts.”
8 For if [b]Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. 10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.
1 Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, [a]not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. 3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said:
“So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest,’ ”
although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; 5 and again in this place: “They shall not enter My rest.”
6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, 7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said:
“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts.”
8 For if [b]Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. 10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.
The Word Discovers Our Condition
11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience. 12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.
The Holy Spirit did not write those words he inspired those words they were written down by men.
You think the Bible is the Living Holy Spirit do you?
Whose Spirit births our spirit?.
The Living Spirit or the Bible?
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
Wrangler said:
<sigh> Yes, of course I believe in Jesus! The false dilemma of trinitarians is to say if you do not believe in the trinity, then you cannot be a Christ follower. Untrue.
Here are the ABC's and 123's. NOTE: In blue is the specific answer to your question. These ABC’s (OT) and 123’s (NT) will easily demonstrate the monotheist text of Scripture, the perspective through which one ought to view trinitarians vain attempt to impose their tri-une eisegesis interpretation.
Consider the emphatic way God communicated to Moses, by putting his commands in stone. This represents the ultimate way of clear communication in all of human history. By contrast, trinitarian’s sad attempt to read contradictory doctrine into monotheist text ridiculous and cannot hold up to scrutiny. This is why they disregard what follows.
ABC’s (OT)
St. SteVen says:
Since YHWY is Elohim, he is NOT the only god. Define Elohim. (all the gods)
YHWY is one of many gods. Israel was to have no other gods but YHWY.
Therefore, there were other gods to have.
The Trinity means one God in three persons, NOT three gods.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wrangler said:
123’s (NT)
St. SteVen says:
Jesus being God's anointed does not negate his deity as God the Son.
The word YHWH (Yahweh) is nowhere to be found in the NT. Not sure what that proves.
The NT doesn't even call God the Father YHWY.
God made Jesus?
The Word was God. The Word was with God in the beginning.
The Word became flesh, God the Son, conceived by God the Holy Spirit.
There is a hierarchy of authority in the godhead.
God the Father, then God the Son, then God the Holy Spirit.
God the Father can be God to God the Son without negating the deity of either one.
Jesus, God the Son, sitting at the right hand of God the Father does not negate His deity.
In fact God the Father handed over all authority to God the Son when he was enthroned.
Matthew 28:17-18 NIV
When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.
18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
[ cc: @Wrangler
<sigh> Yes, of course I believe in Jesus! The false dilemma of trinitarians is to say if you do not believe in the trinity, then you cannot be a Christ follower. Untrue.
Here are the ABC's and 123's. NOTE: In blue is the specific answer to your question. These ABC’s (OT) and 123’s (NT) will easily demonstrate the monotheist text of Scripture, the perspective through which one ought to view trinitarians vain attempt to impose their tri-une eisegesis interpretation.
Consider the emphatic way God communicated to Moses, by putting his commands in stone. This represents the ultimate way of clear communication in all of human history. By contrast, trinitarian’s sad attempt to read contradictory doctrine into monotheist text ridiculous and cannot hold up to scrutiny. This is why they disregard what follows.
ABC’s (OT)
- Only YHWH is God.
- Deut 6:4 (NOG). Listen, Israel: Yahweh is our Elohim. Yahweh is the only God.
- YHWH is God’s only and eternal name – for all generations.
- Ex 3:15 (NLT). Yahweh, the God of your ancestors—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob—has sent me to you. This is my eternal name,
- my name to remember for all generations.
- 1C, You shall have no other gods but YHWH – including the trinity god.
- Ex 20:3 (NLT) You must not have any other god but me.
St. SteVen says:
Since YHWY is Elohim, he is NOT the only god. Define Elohim. (all the gods)
YHWY is one of many gods. Israel was to have no other gods but YHWY.
Therefore, there were other gods to have.
The Trinity means one God in three persons, NOT three gods.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wrangler said:
123’s (NT)
- All the Gospels proclaim Jesus is God’s Anointed. None claim Jesus is YHWH incarnate.
- Matthew 1:1 (VOICE) This is the family history, the genealogy, of Jesus the Anointed, the coming King.
- Mark 1:1 (VOICE). This is the beginning of the good news of Jesus, the Anointed One, the Liberating King, the Son of God.
- Luke 1:4 I want you to know that you can fully rely on the things you have been taught about Jesus, God’s Anointed One.
- John 20:31 (VOICE). These accounts are recorded so that you, too, might believe that Jesus is the Anointed, the Liberating King, the Son of God, because believing grants you the life He came to share.
- God made Jesus and gave Jesus authority – but not over God, Himself.
- Acts 2:36 (CEV). God has made Jesus both Lord and Christ
- 1 Corinthians 15:27 “God has put all things under his authority.”[a] (Of course, when it says “all things are under his authority,” that does not include God himself, who gave Christ his authority.
- Jesus has a God, who we relate to as Father, who is the only true God.
- John 17:1-3 (NLT) Father … And this is the way to have eternal life—to know you, the only true God.
- John 20:17 ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”
- The resurrected Jesus, sitting on God’s throne in heaven is STILL not God.
- Rev 1:1 (NLT). This is a revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him.
- Rev 3:12. Jesus invokes his God 4 times in 1 sentence.
St. SteVen says:
Jesus being God's anointed does not negate his deity as God the Son.
The word YHWH (Yahweh) is nowhere to be found in the NT. Not sure what that proves.
The NT doesn't even call God the Father YHWY.
God made Jesus?
The Word was God. The Word was with God in the beginning.
The Word became flesh, God the Son, conceived by God the Holy Spirit.
There is a hierarchy of authority in the godhead.
God the Father, then God the Son, then God the Holy Spirit.
God the Father can be God to God the Son without negating the deity of either one.
Jesus, God the Son, sitting at the right hand of God the Father does not negate His deity.
In fact God the Father handed over all authority to God the Son when he was enthroned.
Matthew 28:17-18 NIV
When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.
18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
[ cc: @Wrangler
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