THE Trinity can Now be discussed.

[face2face]

see what I mean

Utterly unaware of what we believe

The point here is clear, Eternally – if Jesus is truly God, then the temptations He faced could not have any real potential for sin. It would be impossible! At best, it would be a mere display.

F2F

 

[St. SteVen]

God[j] was manifested in the flesh,

This "in the flesh" phrase is significant. Why state the obvious about a human?
Of course a human is in the flesh. The significance is God in the flesh.

1 Timothy 3:16 NKJV
And without controversy great is the [a]mystery of godliness:
God[b] was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.

--- COMPARE ---

1 Timothy 3:16 NIV
Beyond all question, the mystery from which true godliness springs is great:
He appeared in the flesh,
was vindicated by the Spirit,[a]
was seen by angels,
was preached among the nations,
was believed on in the world,
was taken up in glory.

[

 

[lforrest]

Yeah its pre-eminence not pre-existence - well done!

Not what I got from these scriptures.

If he claimed himself more important than Abraham would his statement have drawn the same ire from the Jews? Claiming the same name that God gave Moses for himself was clearly blasphemy in their eyes, earning the response he got.

 

[St. SteVen]

This "in the flesh" phrase is significant. Why state the obvious about a human?
Of course a human is in the flesh. The significance is God in the flesh.

A couple more good examples. Sobering actually.
The spirit of antichrist denies that Jesus came in the flesh. (from where?)

1 John 4:2
This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God:
Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,

2 John 1:7
I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh,
have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

[

 

[face2face]

Not what I got from these scriptures.

If he claimed himself more important than Abraham would his statement have drawn the same ire from the Jews? Claiming the same name that God gave Moses for himself was clearly blasphemy in their eyes, earning the response he got.

Context is king here Iforrest

The Jews had just claimed that Abraham was their father (vs. 39), and in response, Christ affirms His preeminence in God's divine plan by stating, "before Abraham was, I am." He did not say "before Abraham was, I was," as is often misinterpreted. Like modern-day Trinitarians, the Jews misunderstood Jesus’ statement. He was not claiming to be literally older than Abraham in years. This is clarified by His earlier statement: "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad" (vs. 56). Abraham, to whom the gospel was preached (Gal. 3:8), "saw" Christ’s day through the eyes of faith. Christ was "foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was made manifest in these last times" (1 Peter 1:20). He was established in God's divine plan, but not physically present. Similarly, in God’s purpose, He was the "Lamb slain from the foundation of the world" (Rev. 13:8), but He was not literally crucified until the time of Pilate.

If you approach the text with the eye of faith, I'm confident you'll see what the Lord is doing here. This is another instance where dogma is influencing your interpretation.

F2F

 

[face2face]

A couple more good examples. Sobering actually.
The spirit of antichrist denies that Jesus came in the flesh. (from where?)

1 John 4:2
This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God:
Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,

2 John 1:7
I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh,
have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

[

This is not typically a focus for Trinitarians because they don't believe Christ truly came in sinful flesh, a truth clearly taught by the Apostles, since God cannot dwell in what is unclean.

Should you give this theme the time it deserves you will eventually draw to truth.

F2F

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Amen!..Plus how can Jesus be God if....

​

◄ Matthew 24:36 ►

​

Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. New Living Translation “However, no one knows the day or hour when these things will happen, not even the angels in heaven or the Son himself. Only the Father knows. English Standard Version “But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only. Berean Standard Bible No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father

remember,

1. God can not die. So God had to enter a human body to taste death
2. God can not sin, So God had to be fully human able to sin.
3. God can not feel physical pain. So God had to enter a human body to suffer pain
4. God can not be tempted. so God had to enter a human body to be tempted all ways as we are. yet be without sin.

Phil 2: 5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it [b]robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Certainly. Jesus stated & implied that, several times. John 17:5; John 8:58; John 3:13; etc.

But Jesus existing before he came to Earth, in no way equates to him being God.

then who (what) was he?

 

[RLT63]

The Bible is clear that the attributes of God prevent Him from engaging in certain behaviors or being subject to specific conditions. For example:

• God cannot die, because He is eternal (Psalm 90:2, "Even before the mountains came into existence, or You brought the world into being, You were the eternal God"; see also 1 Timothy 1:17).
• God cannot lie (Titus 1:2, "...in hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the ages began"; see also Hebrews 10:23).
• God cannot invoke a higher authority than Himself (Hebrews 6:13, "Now when God made His promise to Abraham, since He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself").
• God cannot sin or be tempted by evil (James 1:13, "Let no one say when he is tempted, ‘I am tempted by God,’ for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself tempts no one").

Thus, the Christian God can do anything that is consistent with His character and nature. Conversely, God cannot do anything that contradicts His character and nature. Ultimately, this means it is impossible for God to cease being God or to be both "God" and "not-God" simultaneously. God is not self-contradictory.

God can do whatever he chooses to do.

 

[RLT63]

It's merely a resource and not the only one I have.

Yes, your other resource is copy and paste without giving credit to the source

 

[face2face]

remember,

1. God can not die. So God had to enter a human body to taste death
2. God can not sin, So God had to be fully human able to sin.
3. God can not feel physical pain. So God had to enter a human body to suffer pain
4. God can not be tempted. so God had to enter a human body to be tempted all ways as we are. yet be without sin.

Phil 2: 5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it [b]robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross

This is astonishing – I can't fathom how you could even write such things.

It reveals you know not the Holiness or Righteousness of God.

F2F

 

[Marvelloustime]

to all who ................
to all who OBEY HIM . the sheep of His pasture love His words and by the SPIRIT have the love of GOD shed upon their hearts .
That kinda love PUTS GOD CHRIST FIRST and above and before all others and then it loves its neighbor as itself .
TRUE LOVE LOVETH GOD ABOVE ALL . thus the love of GOD sure does REJOICE IN THE TRUTH .
Charity rejoices in the truth , not in inquity . The love of the world however will put neighbor , wife , husband
humanity BEFORE GOD and it loveth sins and will do all to twist the words of the truth of GOD rather than
those who HAVE THE LOVE OF GOD who Would have loved the TRUTH . The sheep eat on THE GREEN grass of HIS every word .
He has humbled HIS own and has put the love that teaches and has taught them That man does not live
by bread alone but by EVERY WORD OF THE GLORIOUS LORD . ISNT that just lovely my friend .

@amigo de christo

 

[face2face]

Yes, your other resource is copy and paste without giving credit to the source

The wounds will heal RLT! I have the original PDF of that work in my private library of works on the Trinity. It didn't come with an author.

 

[face2face]

@RLT63 if you want more works on the history of the Trinity you only need ask. PM me anytime, as I said I have a lot of works on the Trinity, both for and against.

This one is a good read and happy to share it with the thread.

F2F

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The topic….Yeshua’s preexistence.
I propose that there is a difference between preexistence and awareness.
A lot of people believe in the preexistence of Yeshua and think they see evidence of the activity of the Son of God in the Old Testament. But this is more imaginative interpretations. And really there in nothing clear and precise about Yeshua doing anything in the Old Testament.

you really think this? I disagree whole heartedly

Actually Yahweh makes it clear in the Old Testament the He is the only God and there is no other. That is clear with no buts about it. But could Yeshua be aware of time immemorial?

Yet he said he was sent by the father and the spirit (Is 48)

This explanation comes from something I read about Albert Einstein.
So this explanation starts with us standing on an underground Subway Platform. The train tracks are in front of us. All of this is a representation of time, physical and spiritual.

Now as we stand there, a Subway Train is passing by. The cars that have passed by represent the past….the cars that are coming towards us are the future…and the car that is in front of us is the present.

Now as we stand there Yeshua stroll up and greets us. He is with us in the present. He grins and points at the Subway Train and says, “I am there.”

We look, and as the cars pass we see Yeshua, Yahweh, and the Holy Spirit in the windows of every car, past, present, and future. Illustrating that the Trinity exists fully in the present, but to some degree or extent the Trinity exists in time past and future. This is the natural reality of the Gods and time…so…

Yeshua was born the real Son of God and as such when He was conceived of God, He then perceived time and existed in time, just as Yahweh and the Holy Spirit do.

So to some degree Yeshua was present in the Old Testament but not to the extent that He would be performing miracles or be referenced by name in the Old Testament scriptures. In other words, there is no scriptures in the Old Testament about Yahweh talking to His Son or telling His Son to do something, or that He even had a Son that was a God. Or that Yeshua actually physically did anything in the Old Testament.

He created the heavens and the earth. By him he spreads them out and holds them.

Is 48:
“Listen to Me, O Jacob,
And Israel, My called:
I am He, I am the First,
I am also the Last.
13 Indeed My hand has laid the foundation of the earth,
And My right hand has stretched out the heavens;
When I call to them,
They stand up together.

14 “All of you, assemble yourselves, and hear!
Who among them has declared these things?
The Lord loves him;
He shall do His pleasure on Babylon,
And His arm shall be against the Chaldeans.
15 I, even I, have spoken;
Yes, I have called him,
I have brought him, and his way will prosper.

16 “Come near to Me, hear this:
I have not spoken in secret from the beginning;
From the time that it was, I was there.
And now the Lord God and His Spirit
Have sent Me.”

I do not see how it can be any more clear than in this OT passage. words spoken by the God of Israel himself.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Why do you ask that immediately after the verse that I quoted, weren't you paying attention?! Here it is again - 1 Corinthians 8:6 (ESV):

(6) yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.​

So this passage says that Through Christ we exist.

that Christ is the creator.

Does not the bible say and God (plural) created the heavens and the earth, and in that creation came man?

we need to open pour minds.. this is a complex subject. but to use a verse and say, I GOT YA. well the bibel was not even written in verse form. we have to take it all together.

 

[St. SteVen]

face2face said:
The Bible is clear that the attributes of God prevent Him from engaging in certain behaviors or being subject to specific conditions.

God can do whatever he chooses to do.

Not to get too far off subject, but I think you both have a point here.

On one hand God is not limited in what He can do.
On the other hand he limits Himself in order to be trustworthy.

We can count on Him to behave predictably, within reason.
And he can surprise us with his unpredictability for our good.

[

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yeah its pre-eminence not pre-existence - well done!

Nope

Already proved in the greek you were wrong..

yet you still ignore the facts.

Like I said keep talking. the more you talk. the less respect I have for you.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It's merely a resource and not the only one I have.

thats ok.

like to poster said, all those resources and you still get it wrong.

sad.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The point here is clear, Eternally – if Jesus is truly God, then the temptations He faced could not have any real potential for sin. It would be impossible! At best, it would be a mere display.

F2F

The point is lost on you..

See the post I made to @Ritajanice in post 1287.

How can God prove his love to mankind, and shut the mouth of satan, and ensure there will be no more rebellion for all eternity. if he did not come to earth as a man.

Sorry, God did not send someone else to do his dirty work