THE Trinity can Now be discussed.

[David in NJ]

He manifested the name his Father gave him. In fact the saints will be given knew names, names which will reveal Gods Glory in the same way Christ revealed in his walk.

HE manifested the Same Name that was given to Moses

24 “Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.

25 “Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. 26 I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them.”

 

[Verily]

Well that's a shame...

Wow that many? I have no clue about that. The first one must have taken a closer oversight because it was great back in the day, even the layout (and the old "on vacation" lightbulbs) so you can know if one of your brothers or sisters got in trouble (their light would go out). You were made aware (and did not have to ask) and you could count the days when you would soon be seeing them again. Whereas now brothers and sisters would just disappear under cover never to be seen again. It just used to be more transparent and freindly that way. I think I can count on one hand over the course of 18 years how many warnings I ever recieved, and even a couple of those were reversed simply because the person who did the reporting did not know it was a scripture. The same as the most recent, it started over a verse that answers in the resurection of Jesus Christ, for goodness sake, that is the one that nailed me. First it was how I underlined the verses, then inquisition for somehow causing trouble in the mind of someone who had some higher attachment to the actual Nicene creed "chicken scratch" part. That was along sentence without a breath. I honestly dont get how you can spend "almost" 20 years of your life somewhere and can be met with such blatant disregard like that, and that be somehow normal in Jesus Christ. I could understand more if the place was secular and/or athiestic (although a its been openly accused of being a den for athiests/trolls to mess with christians) but I dont know if that accusation is truth. That is just what is reported online (which is not a secret thing). And sure, could be easier to disregard as a few bitter folks. Some of the specifics just rang true with my own experience is all.

 

[David in NJ]

@face2face and @Grailhunter

Post 261 has been edited because i did not clarify(was on the phone as i was typing).

 

[Wrangler]

Hiding now?

Again. The God of Israel said he was sent by the father and spirit. So who is the Gid of Isreal?

I don’t understand what you are saying in terms of Scripture verses but the trinity is not in the Bible.

 

[Brakelite]

@RLT63 and @Aunty Jane

Aunty Jane says: Jesus role as mediator is to facilitate communication between the two parties….God cannot have direct communication with sinful humans…..that is why we need a mediator in the first place.

@RLT63 says: If he was in the beginning with God when did he "become " the Logos?
AND - What better of a mediator if He is Both?

You are BOTH Correct

So @Aunty Jane & @RLT63 and special guest @Ritajanice = How are you BOTH CORRECT???

“1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; ”
Hebrews 1:1-3 KJV
Unfeigned Bible

Ready for a UPdate on this???

Ummm, ookaayyy? I think.

 

[Grailhunter]

@face2face and @Grailhunter

Post 261 has been edited because i did not clarify(was on the phone as i was typing).

What is your point?

 

[RLT63]

@Matthias , I was expecting to see you in this thread

 

[face2face]

HE manifested the Same Name that was given to Moses

Your point?

 

[face2face]

Jesus isn't saying He is the Father.

Correct

He is saying that He and the Father are so alike, that for all intents and purposes, when you have seen one, you have seen both.

In Character correct but not nature - his change from mortal to immortality happened at his resurrection, as it will for all the faithful.

Like identical twins. Only in this case, Jesus of the Son of His Father, a perfect reproduction. Which is why we call Him God.

The same will happen when the Saints are glorified in Christ.

Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2

Now this does not mean we will be Christ, just as Christ cannot be God - though it will be said we are a reflection of Christ, as Christ is a reflection of God.

God manifestation is God's primary focus, not human salvation!

F2F

 

[face2face]

This is the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. (Matthew 1:1)

How can the very first verse of the New Testament be misunderstood by those who hold to Trinitarian beliefs?

Why was it essential Christ be the son of David & Abraham after the flesh? Not just the promises!
What was achieved in God raising up a son from this sinful line?
How does the Trinity fail to build upon this core foundation?
And if the Trinity was true, why does Christ not fully reveal himself as God but rather the offspring of David?

“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star! Rev 22:16.

The Lord attributes his existence to being a descendant of David....which means he could not have pre-existed!

This would however qualify Christ as the firstborn and first begotten of God. It would also qualify him for being a High Priest as one taken from among men.

The Trinity removes all these Gospel foundation points and makes the whole revelation nothing more than a party trick.

F2F

 

[RLT63]

This is the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. (Matthew 1:1)

How can the very first verse of the New Testament be misunderstood by those who hold to Trinitarian beliefs?

Why was it essential Christ be the son of David & Abraham after the flesh? Not just the promises!
What was achieved in God raising up a son from this sinful line?
How does the Trinity fail to build upon this core foundation?
And if the Trinity was true, why does Christ not fully reveal himself as God but rather the offspring of David?

“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star! Rev 22:16.

The Lord attributes his existence to being a descendant of David....which means he could not have pre-existed!

This would however qualify Christ as the firstborn and first begotten of God. It would also qualify him for being a High Priest as one taken from among men.

The Trinity removes all these Gospel foundation points and makes the whole revelation nothing more than a party trick.

F2F

Wrong.
Jhn 17:5 - And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

 

[face2face]

HE manifested the Same Name that was given to Moses

I understand your inference now David.

I need you to understand a very important principle which currently alludes you.

The name of God declares His purpose to manifest Himself through a multitude of sons and daughters who will be united as one in Him.

(Can you understand this principle?)

In revealing His name to Moses He was showing him these potential sons and daughters must separate themselves from Egypt (whether literal or spiritual) and dedicate themselves to Him, cultivating within their lives the divine qualities revealed in the Son. This forms the foundation for the granting of divine nature in the age to come.

If you don't understand Exodus Chapter 3 how can you understand the New Testement? If you need help in making this section of Scripture live then please ask, happy to show you its depth in a seperate thread.

In revealing His name to Moses and allowing it to be announced to Israel in Egypt, God showed the people that their calling was not merely to escape oppression, but to be separated from Egypt in order to manifest the qualities of Yahweh in their lives. This was the foundation for their ultimate salvation. Salvation would be granted to them if they proved themselves worthy by incorporating these divine characteristics into their lives.

This involves embracing the qualities that delight the Father and are embodied in His Name. Achieving this requires separation from Egypt through sacrifice and baptism, as without these, salvation cannot be attained (Acts 15:14; 2 Corinthians 6:17-18).

F2F

 

[David in NJ]

“1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; ”
Hebrews 1:1-3 KJV
Unfeigned Bible

Ummm, ookaayyy? I think.

@Brakelite says: And second, because I have issues with the accepted theory among Christians that the union between the members of the trinity is indivisible. If that were the case, then Jesus never died, the sacrifice was a farce, and the atonement based on a false premise.

Only the physical Body of Jesus died on the Cross = the physical flesh body
The Word who became flesh never died and never can die.

1 Peter 3:18-20
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.

Hebrews 10:5-7
Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:
“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
6In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
7Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’ ”

 

[David in NJ]

Your point?

What was the eternal name given to Moses?

Clue - "This is My Name FOREVER......."

 

[face2face]

Wrong.
Jhn 17:5 - And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

If God foreknew you in that same glory, did you also pre-exist? (Romans 8:29)

If you were in His mind (Logos), which He had already prepared for glory (note the past tense) (Romans 9:23, cf. 2 Timothy 1:9).

Once again, because you don't grasp His Logos in terms of reason and purpose, you are unable to comprehend how Christ could pray such a thing.

I believe you understand, but in order to uphold your Trinitarian doctrine, you must impose the idea for believing in pre-existence.

If you truly saw the beauty in the Master's words, you would be moved by them! How much faith does this take for Christ to utter?

F2F

 

[David in NJ]

I understand your inference now David.

I need you to understand a very important principle which currently alludes you.

The name of God declares His purpose to manifest Himself through a multitude of sons and daughters who will be united as one in Him.

(Can you understand this principle?)

In revealing His name to Moses He was showing him these potential sons and daughters must separate themselves from Egypt (whether literal or spiritual) and dedicate themselves to Him, cultivating within their lives the divine qualities revealed in the Son. This forms the foundation for the granting of divine nature in the age to come.

If you don't understand Exodus Chapter 3 how can you understand the New Testement? If you need help in making this section of Scripture live then please ask, happy to show you its depth in a seperate thread.

In revealing His name to Moses and allowing it to be announced to Israel in Egypt, God showed the people that their calling was not merely to escape oppression, but to be separated from Egypt in order to manifest the qualities of Yahweh in their lives. This was the foundation for their ultimate salvation. Salvation would be granted to them if they proved themselves worthy by incorporating these divine characteristics into their lives.

This involves embracing the qualities that delight the Father and are embodied in His Name. Achieving this requires separation from Egypt through sacrifice and baptism, as without these, salvation cannot be attained (Acts 15:14; 2 Corinthians 6:17-18).

F2F

Yahweh is not the name given to Moses whereby the LORD said "This is My Name forever......"

 

[David in NJ]

What is your point?

What was the eternal name given to Moses?

Clue - "This is My Name FOREVER......."

 

[face2face]

Only the physical Body of Jesus died on the Cross = the physical flesh body
The Word who became flesh never died and never can die.

1 Peter 3:18-20
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.

Hebrews 10:5-7
Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:
“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
6In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
7Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’ ”

Isaiah 55:11

 

[face2face]

Yahweh is not the name given to Moses whereby the LORD said "This is My Name forever......"

Is it fair to say you are not very good at explaining your point

 

[David in NJ]

Isaiah 55:11

For My thoughts are not your thoughts,

neither are your ways My ways,”

declares the LORD.
9“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,

so My ways are higher than your ways

and My thoughts than your thoughts.

10For just as rain and snow fall from heaven

and do not return without watering the earth,

making it bud and sprout,

and providing seed to sow and food to eat,

11so My word that proceeds from My mouth

will not return to Me empty,

but it will accomplish what I please,

and it will prosper where I send it.