THE Trinity can Now be discussed.

[Wrangler]

The only other choice is non-monotheism.
Which I assume you don't want to discuss.

Huh? Without reading trinitarian doctrine into it. Can’t answer questions otherwise, eh?

 

[ProDeo]

There is truth in this statement, as God is God, and the Holy Spirit is His power, while His only begotten Son is His Son. However, the Holy Spirit, while often personified in Scripture for our benefit, is not a separate person but the power of God at work.

Matt 28:19 - Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Three separate persons.

How clear do you want to have it?

 

[ProDeo]

I would say that the Apostolic view is the one that can be harmonized with the true Gospel as shown by Paul in Romans and the writer to the Hebrews. The Trinity is silent in these two great Gospel works, yet the true nature of Christ stands as the central theme.

Hebr 3:7 - Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says, “Today, if you hear his voice,

It doesn't say - Therefore, as God says
It doesn't say - Therefore, as Christ says

It's the uncreated person the Holy Spirit who speaks.

At least that's what the Trinity teaches, 3 uncreated separate persons Who are One.

 

[David in NJ]

Matt 28:19 - Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Three separate persons.

How clear do you want to have it?

Matt 28:19 - Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Three separate persons.

How clear do you want to have it?

“Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world. O righteous Father! The world has not known You, but I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me. And I have declared to them Your name, and will declare it, that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them.”

@face2face @Aunty Jane @Grailhunter - What is the name that JESUS declared???

 

[Angelina]

This board's owner is the same as CF's so why would there be different weights and measures used on this board as opposed to that board.

@Verily They own the board but do not run it. They are not owners/operators. This forum is run by the admins who have been running it for years and who have seen 5 different owners since it was created 18 years ago.

 

[Verily]

They own the board but do not run it. They are not here often. It is run by the admins.

I figured so much, read online complaints about it and I have to say they were spot on when describing the two problems. But I should leave it at that, too much sunshine.

 

[RLT63]

Matt 28:19 - Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Three separate persons.

How clear do you want to have it?

I'm with you but they will argue that that verse is not in the original manuscripts and was added by the Catholic Church. My father in law was UPC and swore by this

 

[Angelina]

I figured so much, read online complaints about it and I have to say they were spot on when describing the two problems. But I should leave it at that, too much sunshine.

@Verily They own the board but do not run it. They are not owners/operators. This forum is run by the admins who have been running it for years and who have seen 5 different owners since it was created 18 years ago.

@Verily - Well, that's a shame... We can only do what we can do and rely on the lord for the rest.

 

[ProDeo]

Christ, in this prayer, understood that the manifestation of God is not about a separate or distinct being, but about the revelation of God’s presence and power through Christ, the Logos, in and through all believers. This is how Christ fulfills God's purpose—by being the visible manifestation of the invisible God, and by revealing this same glory to those who are one with Him.

I think you are missing an essential part in John 17, namely that Christ (as only person in the Bible and as any person can say) refers and remembers the life He had before He came to Earth.

Joh 17:5 - And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.

 

[Grailhunter]

“Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world. O righteous Father! The world has not known You, but I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me. And I have declared to them Your name, and will declare it, that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them.”

@face2face @Aunty Jane @Grailhunter - What is the name that JESUS declared???

24 “Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.

25 “Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. 26 I have made you[e] known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them.”

 

[RLT63]

Hebrews 1 gives understanding to who Christ is, very descriptive and worshipped by all God's angels.
And God's command is only He is to be worshipped.

the fact is there is a Father and there is a Son, and they are co-creator.
Christ is not an angel of God, which means he was not created.

God’s Supreme Revelation​

1 God, who [a]at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the [b]worlds; 3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had [c]by Himself [d]purged [e]our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

The Son Exalted Above Angels​

5 For to which of the angels did He ever say:

“You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You”?
And again:

“I will be to Him a Father,
And He shall be to Me a Son”?
6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says:

“Let all the angels of God worship Him.”
7 And of the angels He says:

“Who makes His angels spirits
And His ministers a flame of fire.”
8 But to the Son He says:

“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A [f]scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
10 And:

“You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
11 They will perish, but You remain;
And they will all grow old like a garment;
12 Like a cloak You will fold them up,
And they will be changed.
But You are the same,
And Your years will not fail.”
13 But to which of the angels has He ever said:

“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”?
14 Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation?

But to the Son he says your throne oh GOD is forever

 

[David in NJ]

24 “Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.

25 “Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. 26 I have made you[e] known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them.”

AWESOME and Thank You

How do THEY accomplish verses 24-25???

 

[Grailhunter]

AWESOME and Thank You

How do THEY accomplish verses 24-25???

It was easy.....what part do you not understand?

 

[David in NJ]

It was easy.....what part do you not understand?

i understand the part that you do not understand

You said it was "easy"

 

[Grailhunter]

i understand the part that you do not understand

You said it was "easy"

What are you talking about?
As they say in England....You are boring me now!

 

[Wrangler]

Jesus did not reject worship!

This is one of my favorite absurd arguments. David, Daniel and Nebuchadnezzar were also worshipped. Does that make them God 6?

 

[Brakelite]

Not much. Who will give the sign? And do you realize that being given a name does not mean the person is literally that name, right? For instance, Peter is not literally a rock.

The expression "God with us" is common in Scripture. Never does it literally mean it is so.

When someone in scripture was given a name, it didn't change the metaphysical nature of the person, but it did reflect the character and nature of the person. You are right. Peter didn't become a rock, or a pebble. But his character reflected that change of name. The same for Jacob. No longer an identity thief, supplanter, but a conquerer, Israel. Jesus, or Yeshua, had many names effecting His character and spiritual nature. Emmanuel, God with us, reflected His work, His ministry, His purpose. To demonstrate the God of the Bible to mankind. Like Jesus said to Philip.
“9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. 13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. ”
John 14:9-11, 13 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

Jesus isn't saying He is the Father. He is saying that He and the Father are so alike, that for all intents and purposes, when you have seen one, you have seen both. Like identical twins. Only in this case, Jesus of the Son of His Father, a perfect reproduction. Which is why we call Him God.

 

[Wrangler]

Hebrews 1 gives understanding to who Christ is

Unbelievable! Hebrews 1 affirms Jesus is not God for in verse 5 it states change in God will one day be the father and he will one day be his son. Profound.

More profound is the man-is-god thesis does not prove a trinity.

That trinitarians must resort to such tortured rationalizations to ‘support’ their doctrine shows how it goes against what Scrioture explicitly teaches over and over again.

Question. @Scott Downey, why is believing the trinity important?

 

[face2face]

“Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world. O righteous Father! The world has not known You, but I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me. And I have declared to them Your name, and will declare it, that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them.”

@face2face @Aunty Jane @Grailhunter - What is the name that JESUS declared???

He manifested the name his Father gave him. In fact the saints will be given knew names, names which will reveal Gods Glory in the same way Christ revealed in his walk.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Unbelievable! Hebrews 1 affirms Jesus is not God for in verse 5 it states change in God will one day be the father and he will one day be his son. Profound.

More profound is the man-is-god thesis does not prove a trinity.

That trinitarians must resort to such tortured rationalizations to ‘support’ their doctrine shows how it goes against what Scrioture explicitly teaches over and over again.

Question. @Scott Downey, why is believing the trinity important?

Hiding now?

Again. The God of Israel said he was sent by the father and spirit. So who is the Gid of Isreal?