THE Trinity can Now be discussed.

[David in NJ]

Did you see posts 3 through 8 full posts full of proof

i went back just now took a look at your FULL Pages which, no matter who it is from, i rarely read.

i prefer Scripture followed by a short answer/explanation/declaration = K.I.S.S.

Keep
It
Simple
Saints

 

[Grailhunter]

i went back just now took a look at your FULL Pages which, no matter who it is from, i rarely read.

i prefer Scripture followed by a short answer/explanation/declaration = K.I.S.S.

Keep
It
Simple
Saints

Long list of proofs and I am not going post them one at a time.

 

[David in NJ]

It says God did, but can we really assume that it was the Creator himself who walked in the garden. Isn’t a representative the way God always communicated with humankind?

Think back to Moses’ request to see God, only to be told that “no man may see me and yet live”.....If the Creator of the Universe and all that fills it, as well as the inhabitants of the spiritual realm, of which we can only get glimpses from visions given to God’s prophets (like Ezekiel) how can we categorically say that God himself walked on this tiny speck of a planet with creatures that David described as “grasshoppers”? (Isa 40:22)

What did A&E lose when they sinned? They were made painfully aware once they were evicted from the garden....

It says the LORD walked and spoke with them

Does God tell us to NOT believe His word???

Is there ANY scripture that would say it was NOT the Lord who walked with Adam & Eve???

 

[David in NJ]

Long list of proofs and I am not going post them one at a time.

Why not?

TRUTH is very simple and straightforward.

As a matter of fact, full page explanations are usually a way interjecting human intellect upon "It is written".

Since God established faith in His word is required for understanding, why do we seek understanding to have faith in His word?

 

[Grailhunter]

Why not?

TRUTH is very simple and straightforward.

As a matter of fact, full page explanations are usually a way interjecting human intellect upon "It is written".

Since God established faith in His word is required for understanding, why do we seek understanding to have faith in His wo

You are right about truth being simple and straightforward......you just cannot ignore it.

 

[David in NJ]

You are right about truth being simple and straightforward......you just cannot ignore it.

you just cannot ignore it

Most people do, and this thread has ample evidence of such!!!

 

[RLT63]

The Bible tells us that often it was angelic messengers who communicated with humans. Noah most likely heard the voice of God’s angel.....as Moses heard a voice in a burning bush. That was an angel. (Ex 3:2)

Abraham was visited by three angels in materialised form...one of whom spoke for Jehovah....in all probability, “the Word” in his pre-human form as his Father’s spokesman.

Tools

Gen 32:30 - And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen Godface to face, and my life is preserved.
Tools

Exo 33:11 - And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend.And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.
Tools

Num 14:14 - And they will tell it to the inhabitants of this land: for they have heard that thou LORD art among this people, that thou LORD art seen face to face, and that thy clouds standeth over them, and that thou goest before them, by day time in a pillar of a cloud, and in a pillar of fire by night.
Tools

Deu 5:4 - The LORD talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midstof the fire,
Tools

Deu 34:10 - And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses,whom the LORD knew face-to face,

 

[David in NJ]

Tools

Gen 32:30 - And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen Godface to face, and my life is preserved.
Tools

Exo 33:11 - And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend.And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.
Tools

Num 14:14 - And they will tell it to the inhabitants of this land: for they have heard that thou LORD art among this people, that thou LORD art seen face to face, and that thy clouds standeth over them, and that thou goest before them, by day time in a pillar of a cloud, and in a pillar of fire by night.
Tools

Deu 5:4 - The LORD talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midstof the fire,
Tools

Deu 34:10 - And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses,whom the LORD knew face-to face,

Big 'UH-OH' for jw

 

[Grailhunter]

you just cannot ignore it

Most people do, and this thread has ample evidence of such!!!

You are right.

 

[Scott Downey]

Jesus did not reject worship!
Many such examples. and we know the commandment.

Exodus 34:14
(for you shall worship no other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God),

As a babe

Wise Men from the East​

1 Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, [a]wise men from the East came to Jerusalem, 2 saying, “Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we have seen His star in the East and have come to worship Him.”

3 When Herod the king heard this, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him.

From the disciples
*******************************************************************************
Matthew 14

Jesus Walks on the Sea​

22 Immediately Jesus [a]made His disciples get into the boat and go before Him to the other side, while He sent the multitudes away. 23 And when He had sent the multitudes away, He went up on the mountain by Himself to pray. Now when evening came, He was alone there. 24 But the boat was now [b]in the middle of the sea, tossed by the waves, for the wind was contrary.

25 Now in the fourth watch of the night Jesus went to them, walking on the sea. 26 And when the disciples saw Him walking on the sea, they were troubled, saying, “It is a ghost!” And they cried out for fear.

27 But immediately Jesus spoke to them, saying, [c]“Be of good cheer! [d]It is I; do not be afraid.”

28 And Peter answered Him and said, “Lord, if it is You, command me to come to You on the water.”

29 So He said, “Come.” And when Peter had come down out of the boat, he walked on the water to go to Jesus. 30 But when he saw [e]that the wind was boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink he cried out, saying, “Lord, save me!”

31 And immediately Jesus stretched out His hand and caught him, and said to him, “O you of little faith, why did you doubt?” 32 And when they got into the boat, the wind ceased.

33 Then those who were in the boat [f]came and worshiped Him, saying, “Truly You are the Son of God.”
*********************************************************************************
From others

Matthew 15
24 But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

25 Then she came and worshiped Him, saying, “Lord, help me!”

26 But He answered and said, “It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the little dogs.”

 

[David in NJ]

You are right.

Of course i am right - lol

 

[Grailhunter]

Jesus did not reject worship!
Many such examples. and we know the commandment.

Exodus 34:14
(for you shall worship no other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God),

As a babe

Wise Men from the East​

1 Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, [a]wise men from the East came to Jerusalem, 2 saying, “Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we have seen His star in the East and have come to worship Him.”

3 When Herod the king heard this, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him.

From the disciples
*******************************************************************************
Matthew 14

Jesus Walks on the Sea​

22 Immediately Jesus [a]made His disciples get into the boat and go before Him to the other side, while He sent the multitudes away. 23 And when He had sent the multitudes away, He went up on the mountain by Himself to pray. Now when evening came, He was alone there. 24 But the boat was now [b]in the middle of the sea, tossed by the waves, for the wind was contrary.

25 Now in the fourth watch of the night Jesus went to them, walking on the sea. 26 And when the disciples saw Him walking on the sea, they were troubled, saying, “It is a ghost!” And they cried out for fear.

27 But immediately Jesus spoke to them, saying, [c]“Be of good cheer! [d]It is I; do not be afraid.”

28 And Peter answered Him and said, “Lord, if it is You, command me to come to You on the water.”

29 So He said, “Come.” And when Peter had come down out of the boat, he walked on the water to go to Jesus. 30 But when he saw [e]that the wind was boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink he cried out, saying, “Lord, save me!”

31 And immediately Jesus stretched out His hand and caught him, and said to him, “O you of little faith, why did you doubt?” 32 And when they got into the boat, the wind ceased.

33 Then those who were in the boat [f]came and worshiped Him, saying, “Truly You are the Son of God.”
*********************************************************************************
From others

Matthew 15
24 But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

25 Then she came and worshiped Him, saying, “Lord, help me!”

26 But He answered and said, “It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the little dogs.”

Who are you talking to and what is your point?

 

[David in NJ]

@RLT63 and @Aunty Jane

Aunty Jane says: Jesus role as mediator is to facilitate communication between the two parties….God cannot have direct communication with sinful humans…..that is why we need a mediator in the first place.

@RLT63 says: If he was in the beginning with God when did he "become " the Logos?
AND - What better of a mediator if He is Both?

You are BOTH Correct

So @Aunty Jane & @RLT63 and special guest @Ritajanice = How are you BOTH CORRECT???

 

[ProDeo]

The Foundation that God/Elohim(Plural) is THREE also begins in Genesis = "Let Us make man in Our image according to Our likeness"

 

[Scott Downey]

Hebrews 1 gives understanding to who Christ is, very descriptive and worshipped by all God's angels.
And God's command is only He is to be worshipped.

the fact is there is a Father and there is a Son, and they are co-creator.
Christ is not an angel of God, which means he was not created.

God’s Supreme Revelation​

1 God, who [a]at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the [b]worlds; 3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had [c]by Himself [d]purged [e]our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

The Son Exalted Above Angels​

5 For to which of the angels did He ever say:

“You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You”?
And again:

“I will be to Him a Father,
And He shall be to Me a Son”?
6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says:

“Let all the angels of God worship Him.”
7 And of the angels He says:

“Who makes His angels spirits
And His ministers a flame of fire.”
8 But to the Son He says:

“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A [f]scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
10 And:

“You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
11 They will perish, but You remain;
And they will all grow old like a garment;
12 Like a cloak You will fold them up,
And they will be changed.
But You are the same,
And Your years will not fail.”
13 But to which of the angels has He ever said:

“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”?
14 Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation?

 

[ProDeo]

@Johann, I see Red is willing to accept the development of dogma and stand by it with honesty and integrity—respect! However, the doctrine of the Trinity is nowhere explicitly taught as a set of beliefs in the Word of God. Its development occurred in the philosophical minds of men who aimed to clarify and define the nature of God, often using concepts and language that were influenced by Greek philosophy.

To accept this is a good foundation from which the Original Gospel can be known.

F2F

Spiritual death is also not mentioned in Scripture, but it is there.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

LOL

If we start comparing scriptures that show there are three God’s in one or that there are three distinct Gods in the Godhead. You can say, but the scriptures say this and I will say the scriptures say this, then… You can say, but the scriptures say this and I will say the scriptures say this then…. You can say, but the scriptures say this and I will say the scriptures say this then….You can say, but the scriptures say this and I will say the scriptures say this etc….

But you will run out of scriptures long before I do. Like I said, I have over a hundred scriptures that show that the one God formula for the Trinity is false. Not only direct scriptures but also all through the Gospels it shows two Gods working together and communicating to each tother and referring to each other.

Yet as I showed earlier. The God of israel was sent by the father and his spirit.

if the father is not the specific God of israel. Then Who is?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You are right about truth being simple and straightforward......you just cannot ignore it.

That goes for everyone.

 

[David in NJ]

Spiritual death is also not mentioned in Scripture, but it is there.

Unbelief suffers from blurred vision which, if not corrected, leads to blindness.

Religion tries to convince everyone to see thru colored lenses.

TRUTH on the other Hand, is simple, straight-forward and child-like which confuses Unbelief and Religion

 

[Scott Downey]

Only God is uncreated. I have thought on the nature of God who is without beginning or ending, being the First and the Last.
And honestly, HE is unfathomable, scripture says no one has known His mind to be His councilor, but we can have the mind of Christ.

Never ending eternal God. God is God, and yet personal, a God we can only know through Christ, whom God sent, who is also God.
The personhood of God is shown in the scriptures, as to His eternal nature, and people may not comprehend that, as really it is unfathomable to our experience. For us time passes, and we are part of time, but scripture says so, and since God cannot lie, He is true and genuine, just as He has said.

“You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
11 They will perish, but You remain;
And they will all grow old like a garment;
12 Like a cloak You will fold them up,
And they will be changed.
But You are the same,
And Your years will not fail.”