What is the basis for the unbeliever's condemnation?

[Ritajanice]

The door stands open to all here. The door will not always stand open. Luke 13:25.

That is your opinion, your post is not inline with Gods Living witness the Holy Spirit..on how we are in Christ.

You need spiritual ears,,..quoting scripture is meaningless, without the a living testimony of the power of God.

If you can’t answer my Spirit questions that I asked .then all you are doing is voicing what you believe scripture is saying, therefore void of Gods truth,

 

[face2face]

That is your opinion, your post is not inline with Gods Living witness the Holy Spirit..on how we are in Christ.

You need spiritual ears,,..quoting scripture is meaningless, without the a living testimony of the power of God.

If you can’t answer my Spirit questions that I asked .then all you are doing is voicing what you believe scripture is saying, therefore void of Gods truth,

Not my opinion but the Lord's teaching...do you pick and choose?

 

[Ritajanice]

The assurance is by promise correct...no different for Christ himself Romans 4:20

Posting scripture proves nothing, you need the living testimony of Gods truth, the Living Holy Spirit who should indwell your heart?

He is the one who can only witness the truth of Gods word to our heart/spirit,

I only see your own interpretation of scripture I’m afraid.

 

[face2face]

Let's refine this assertion-

Your statement about Tertullian raises several valid points but requires some clarification and context for accuracy.

Tertullian's Concern for Heresy: It is true that Tertullian was deeply concerned with defending Christianity, not only against Roman persecution but also against heretical teachings that he believed threatened the purity of the faith. He viewed heresy as a more dangerous threat than Roman oppression because heretical beliefs could lead souls away from salvation. Tertullian is well-known for his vehement opposition to Gnosticism, Marcionism, and other early heresies, and he wrote extensively to counter these movements (e.g., Against Marcion and Prescription Against Heretics). These writings often emphasize the danger of false teachings for the spiritual well-being of Christians.

Tertullian's Views on the Soul: Your claim that Tertullian had already adopted Greek mythology and the doctrine of the immortality of the soul requires more nuance. Tertullian was influenced by Greek philosophy, particularly Platonism, which believed in the immortality of the soul. However, Tertullian did not fully adopt all aspects of Greek mythology. He acknowledged that the soul is immortal, a view he argued in works like On the Soul, where he supported the idea of the soul's immortality and its accountability before God. However, his views on the soul diverged from Platonic thought in certain areas, as he also emphasized the bodily resurrection in contrast to some Greek philosophical teachings that saw the material body as less important than the soul.

The Influence of Greek Thought: While it is true that some elements of Greek thought, including ideas about the soul, had an influence on early Christian theology, it is important to recognize that Tertullian was often critical of over-reliance on Greek philosophy.

In fact, Tertullian famously asked, "What has Athens to do with Jerusalem?"-suggesting that Christian thought should not be overly influenced by Greek philosophy. Nevertheless, the integration of Greek ideas about the soul into early Christian theology, including the immortality of the soul, became a common feature of later Christian thought, though not without criticism from theologians like Tertullian and others in the early Church.

Sources:

Tertullian's Apology and Prescription Against Heretics for his views on defending against heresy.
On the Soul for his thoughts on the immortality of the soul.
The Cambridge History of Christianity and Tertullian: A Historical and Theological Study by Robert E. M. Wyse for deeper context.


If you're not particularly interested in the Early Church Fathers (ECFs) prior to Augustine, I completely understand.

J.

He was a corrupted believer, influenced not by the true Apostles but by the philosophers of his time and those who had come before him.

We have talked about this before J. you need to seek the original Gospel as this is the one which saves.

F2F

 

[face2face]

Posting scripture proves nothing, you need the living testimony of Gods truth, the Living Holy Spirit who should indwell your heart?

He is the one who can only witness the truth of Gods word to our heart/spirit,

I only see your own interpretation of scripture I’m afraid.

Did you undestand Romans 4:20?

 

[Ritajanice]

Not my opinion but the Lord's teaching...do you pick and choose?

You have no understanding of spiritual matters...we are taught by the Living Holy Spirit to understand God’s truth.
.you can’t answer my spirit questions, therefore I rebuke your interpretation of scripture , as it’s your own, you’re not letting the Spirit guide you.

 

[face2face]

@Ritajanice

Just to be clear, you have disregarded Christs words in Luke 13:25 warning of the closed door, and you ignore the faith of Christ in the promises of God in Romans 4:20.

Can you see how this is concerning?

F2F

 

[Ritajanice]

Did you undestand Romans 4:20?

Do you understand being Born Of God, that his seed remains in us?

If you don’t understand being reborn.which you clearly don’t.

You are just interpretating scripture from your own understanding..which is void of Gods truth.

 

[face2face]

Do you understand being Born Of God, that his seed remains in us?

If you don’t understand being reborn.which you clearly don’t.

You are just interpretating scripture from your own understanding..which is void of Gods truth.

Rita, you've already expressed disdain for the Word of God on two very clear passages, yet you're lecturing me on what it means to be born again? Can you see how that appears?

F2F

 

[Ritajanice]

@Ritajanice

Just to be clear, you have disregarded Christs words in Luke 13:25 warning of the closed door, and you ignore the faith of Christ in the promises of God in Romans 4:20.

Can you see how this is concerning?

F2F

It’s also concerning to me that you have no understanding whatsoever, of what it means to be Born Of The Spirit.

You are teaching in your own knowledge and strength...I see no Spirit guiding you through the word, just your own self.

Let the Holy Spirit speak , instead of you.

 

[Johann]

@Ritajanice

Just to be clear, you have disregarded Christs words in Luke 13:25 warning of the closed door, and you ignore the faith of Christ in the promises of God in Romans 4:20.

Can you see how this is concerning?

F2F

The Scriptures are not the source of her authority.

J.

 

[Ritajanice]

Rita, you've already expressed disdain for the Word of God on two very clear passages, yet you're lecturing me on what it means to be born again? Can you see how that appears?

F2F

Stop pontificating.

Explain the Living rebirth.?

Who testifies Of God’s truth, you or the Living Holy Spirit?

Who leads you through scripture @face2face ?

 

[Ritajanice]

The Scriptures are not the source of her authority.

J.

Correct, the source of my authority, is the Living Holy Spirit..who is the only one who can testify to our spirit, Gods truth.

I check the validity of what I hear always with scripture @Johann

 

[face2face]

The Scriptures are not the source of her authority.

J.

I know this J.

She rejects the very implanted Word that is able to save her (James 1:21).

Can you see the dangers of a false gospel?

In one breath, she cries "Spirit," and in the next, she denies it.

This is what the Lord will address when the door is shut and He sends His Saints into the world to correct these wrongs.

F2F

 

[Ritajanice]

She rejects the very implanted Word which is able to save her. James 1:21

The Living Spirit saves us from eternal damnation , not scripture, scripture confirms , what the Spirit testifies Of how we stay/ are in Christ..you’ve yet to understand that.

I reject your misguided and completely skewed view of scripture...you’re the one who is in danger..

You bear witness of your own spirit.,whose teaching a skewed understanding of being in Christ.

Let the Spirit be your witness..instead of yourself.

 

[Ritajanice]

I know this J.

She rejects the very implanted Word which is able to save her. James 1:21

Can you see the dangers of a false gospel?

In one breathe she crys Spirit in the next she denies it.

This is what the Lord will be dealing with when the door is shut and he sends his Saints into the world to right all these wrongs.

All coming from your own head knowledge.opinions, opinions, never take glory away from God..

You know NOTHING without his Holy Spirit.

Only he has authority and can testify the truth to our spirit of Gods truth, then check what you believe you hear him say / testify with the scriptures,

 

[face2face]

@Johann

Those who would enter the Kingdom of God must first be born of water and Spirit (John 3); and Jesus himself showed the way by a heartfelt commitment, evidenced in his baptism, to set aside his own will, and do the will of God. The beginning points to the end: “nevertheless, not my will, but thine, be done.”

So in answer to the question. Its the Lord Jesus Christ who is the answer. He revealed the way a person can be born again.

Jesus unquestionably saw his baptism as the first and irreversible commitment to a course which took him to the cross. “I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished,” he exclaimed (Luke 12:50). He referred, of course, to his crucifixion.

But the language is that of his baptism. He asked the ambitious sons of Zebedee, “Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?” (Matthew 20:22).

The answer can only be, ‘Yes’: for those who avoid that baptism are not his disciples; and his disciples do not only drink from his cup on Sunday mornings! Again, the reference is forward, to his crucifixion: but the language is that of the choice he had made three years before—to identify with those he came to save.

You understand?

 

[Behold]

For the unbeliever, he goes to the Lake of Fire based on his works

No one goes to Hell because of works..

People went to Hell today, and later today, and tonight, and tomorrow, because they are not born again.
So, they are still this...

Jesus said.>>"YOU are of YOUR FATHER, the DEVIL, and the lusts of YOUR FATHER, you shall do"..

So, that is an unbeliever, never born again.....

And what happens when you are born again?

A.) You change Spiritual Fathers..........and are now become the born again Son/Daughter of : FATHER GOD>

And where is He?
So, that is where you end up..

And because "Hell was created for the Devil and His Angles" before Adam was created, and now that sin has come to the human race... then the Spiritual Father of unbelievers, is not GOD .......its "Your Father the DEVIL"... so, if you die and He is still your Spiritual Father, because you are not BORN AGAIN of God the Father.... as Jesus said..

"You must be born again"........

Then you will go to Your Father, and "Hell" is created for Him, so its where you will go also if you die never having been born again by GOD The Father of Jesus The Christ.

 

[KUWN]

The consistent message is that unbelief, rejection of God's revelation (both general and specific), and sin are the foundations for condemnation.

Nobody is condemned for their personal sins. All sins have been paid for, including the unbelievers'. See 2 Pt 2:1

False Teachers and Their Destruction​

1 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.

 

[Johann]

I know this J.

She rejects the very implanted Word that is able to save her (James 1:21).

Can you see the dangers of a false gospel?

In one breath, she cries "Spirit," and in the next, she denies it.

This is what the Lord will address when the door is shut and He sends His Saints into the world to correct these wrongs.

F2F

We are to respond with an apologetic defense that is grounded in Scripture, and it is essential to emphasize that any experience, belief, or practice that does not align with the revealed Word of God is to be considered as pseudo-manmade or unbiblical. The Scriptures are the ultimate standard of truth, and any deviation from them, whether in doctrine or practice, stands as a distortion of the gospel.

Key Scriptures and Greek Words:
2 Timothy 3:16-17
"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."

Greek: "θεόπνευστος" (theopneustos): "God-breathed" — This indicates that all Scripture is divinely inspired and authoritative. Nothing outside of Scripture can be considered divinely authoritative if it contradicts the Word of God.

Matthew 15:9
"But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."

Greek: "μάταιος" (mataios): "In vain" — Christ warns that any teachings that are man-made (such as traditions or doctrines not rooted in Scripture) are futile and unworthy of the worship of God.

Galatians 1:8-9
"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."

Greek: "ἀνάθεμα" (anathema): "Accursed" - Paul declares that even if a different gospel, or teachings not in line with the original message of Christ, is preached, it should be rejected as condemned.

Acts 17:11
"These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

Greek: "γραφῇ" (graphe): "Scripture" - The Bereans were commended for verifying teachings against Scripture, which is the standard for discerning truth.

Isaiah 8:20
"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."

This verse emphasizes that any teaching not grounded in the law (Torah) and the testimony (prophetic writings) is to be rejected, as it lacks the true light of God.

Apologetic Response:
We must uphold the Scriptures as the ultimate authority in matters of faith and practice. Any experience, revelation, or teaching that does not align with Scripture should be regarded as human invention or distortion. As the Apostle Paul warned in Galatians 1:8-9, even if an angel were to proclaim a gospel contrary to what has been revealed in the Scriptures, it is to be rejected and considered accursed. The Apostle Peter also emphasized in 2 Peter 1:19 that we have "the prophetic word made more sure" in Scripture, and that it is not subject to private interpretation or human innovation (2 Peter 1:20).

Thus, any doctrine or experience that deviates from the clear teachings of Scripture is not of God, but is a manmade construct that should be carefully scrutinized and rejected if it leads believers away from the truth of the gospel. The Scriptures are sufficient for all matters of life and godliness, and we must always be vigilant in ensuring that our beliefs and practices align with the revealed Word of God.

I 100% concur with you right here F2F.

J.