Freed : From Calvinism and HyperCalvinism )Tulip<>5 Pont.

[Ronald Nolette]

Is it possible to stick to one verse?

Not really. To prove a doctrine we need to look at many verses.

 

[GodsGrace]

First to reply to verse 41.

There is no "corporate salvation" as you call it. there is only individual salvation. He uses the examples of Jacob and Esau as individuals as well as Pharoah.

Romans 9 is Paul explaining why God chose to have mercy on the Israelites.
It's about corporate salvation....and you don't have to put it in quotation marks because it's a REAL theological system that is believed by every single denomination except for the reformed.

I can't spend my time posting about Romans 9 since you will not care about anything I post since you don't even accept the concept which is truth.

The Promise was kept through Jacob,,,not Esau......It should have been kept by the OLDER brother, not the younger.
But, enough of that.

Verses 1-5 is Israel as a nation. 6-8 transitions to individuals. all the pronouns from that point are are singular. If they were "corporate" they would be plural.

He then poses a rhetorical question from a hypothetical individual.

Paul delcared god will have mercy on whom he will and hardens (all singular) whom he will!

The people worshipping the golden calf were a GROUP of persons which were all individual but comprised A GROUP...
this is what CORPORATE means.

9 is very relevant. verses 18-24 are climatic! For he is speaking of individuals both of Jews and gentiles and not nations .

And I did not say that the verse supports YOUR theology. I said if it was the only verse on how people get saved it would lend some support. but I then told you we have to look at all verses on how people come or not come to god.

Great. I said Romans 9 was the best you had but it did not fit Christian theology as Paul taught it.
But, yes, let's go forward.

and of course the verses I posted support the biblical doctrine of election.

We will soon see.

1 cor. 2, romans 8 and JOhn 6 verses all show the natural or unsaved man cannot come to God on trheir own, nor do they even want to!

But as you dismiss Romans 9 due to poor grammar, then take these three verses and try to defend free will from them. From

Romans 9 is not dismissed due to poor grammar....if you're going to be demeaning...this conversation will soon end, as it does in most cases involving the reformed.

JOhn 6.

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Easy RN. Every verse is easily exegeted because the NT is one entire and complete thought and every verse is reconcilable to every other verse.

John 6:37
When a person becomes saved by faith in God.......
The Father gives that person over to Jesus because Jesus is the Savior who was sent to save the whole world.

See John 12:44
44And Jesus cried out and said, “He who believes in Me, does not believe in Me but in Him who sent Me.

FIRST, we need to believe that God exists...
Hebrews 11:6
6And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.

Please note that Hebrews states that we are to believe that God exists...
AND
that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.

YOUR theology teaches that it's impossible to seek God.
There are tens of verses that state that we are to seek God.


So, we seek God first...
we become born again through faith....Ephesians 2:8-9

Then God gives us to His Son for guidance and salvation and a personal relationship with His Son.

And who does the Father draw?
EVERYONE

John 3:16
16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

the problem with your lone verse is that it is a simple statement of fact or a declaratory statement. what it does not do is explain how or why they resist the Spirit (not grace). the fact your verse declares, as far as the hows and whys have tro be determined in other verses, lijke I showed you.

You haven't shown me anything yet....but you could try again.
Acts speaks about the WILL.
If we have a WILL it means we have a free will....
in your theology MAN HAS NO WILL but his every move is determined by God.

Please post some verses that support your idea that God determines every move that God makes....

Here's another verse on man having a free will:

Philemon 1:14
14but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion but of your own free will.

The bible refers to man's free will because man has A FREE WILL.

An unsaved man can do nothing to please god. turning to Jesus of ones own unsaved human nature is something that pleases God and God said an unsaved person cannot do that.

Also in 1 Cor. 2 the unsaved does not even want to turn to God for the natural mind thinks it is foolishness.

Agreed. The natural man cannot understand God.
This is why Jesus stated that a man must be born AGAIN.
He said this to Nicodemus so that N might teach that man needs to be born again spiritually besides physically.

Why would Jesus say this to N IF it's always God that forces a man to become born again because, according to the reformed, man has no free will?

Please explain.

Then one also has to consider the fact that when Stephen said that it was the time of transition from Israel to the church.

This from a person that will not accept Romans 9???
Please explain further since I have no idea what you're speaking of.

I thought you didn't believe in corporate salvation?
So why mention Israel ??

and your argument for Romans 9 has no merit. Israels hearts were always hardened as Judges through Malachi shows. there was ans always be a remnant.

Sure there was always a remnant. what does that have anything to do with anything?

Paul made it clear in romans 3 that no one seeks God! Unless you believe he was in error.

Jesus told th ePharisees:

John 5:39-40​

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King James Version​

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39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Ooops. You posted verse 39 and 40.
In verse 40 Jesus states that THEY WILL NOT GO TO HIM.

Again...this denotes free will.
Free will is all over the NT....can't get away from it RN.

Jesus is saying TO GO TO HIM to have life.
Ye will not come to me......sounds like free will.

Why will they not come? John 6:37&39&44. Not some mysterious free will that they decided on their own to not come. John 10:25-27 also bears that out!

YOu complain I write many verses. well I will make my case from Scripture and not philosophy or some kind of reasoining and improper use of a passage.

I commented on John 6:37, 39 and 44.

Now please reply and exegete the verses I've posted.
Thanks.

 

[GodsGrace]

Not really. To prove a doctrine we need to look at many verses.

I agree.

So reply to my post to you just now....in the same way that I replied to yours.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Romans 9 is Paul explaining why God chose to have mercy on the Israelites.
It's about corporate salvation....and you don't have to put it in quotation marks because it's a REAL theological system that is believed by every single denomination except for the reformed.

I can't spend my time posting about Romans 9 since you will not care about anything I post since you don't even accept the concept which is truth.

The Promise was kept through Jacob,,,not Esau......It should have been kept by the OLDER brother, not the younger.
But, enough of that.

Sorry but that is not true!

He gave the example of Israel and Abraham and the fact that God gave them the promises and covenants. But He also said that not all Israel is of Israel.

Remember Paul is writing to the church in rome which is Jews and Gentiles.

He shows how Gods call is by election and not works verse11

then 14- 24 is Paul showing god does what He wills based on His own decisions and He closes that part in verse 24:

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Sorry but Paul lets them know that 14-24 is both for Jews and Gentiles.

The people worshipping the golden calf were a GROUP of persons which were all individual but comprised A GROUP...
this is what CORPORATE means.

So, they were condemned as individuals, not as a group. the fact they all were condemned was still an individual thing. the only "group thing" in the OT was that all Gentiles were without god and without hope in the Word as Paul said in ephesians 2.

Romans 9 is not dismissed due to poor grammar....if you're going to be demeaning...this conversation will soon end, as it does in most cases involving the reformed.

I am not reformed.

John 6:37
When a person becomes saved by faith in God.......
The Father gives that person over to Jesus because Jesus is the Savior who was sent to save the whole world.

It does not say that and you know that. You are adding opinion to the verse.

Also it says a person cannot come to Jesus (by faith as you said) until god compels themn to go to Jesus. Your opinion is shot down.

Philemon 1:14
14but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion but of your own free will.

The bible refers to man's free will because man has A FREE WILL.

This is not the free will that you argue for. Men can make choices here and we can choose or reject things here on earth. I call that volition to differentiate it from free will which is an unsaved mans ability to choose God of His natural nature. Which the bible says He can't.

Ooops. You posted verse 39 and 40.
In verse 40 Jesus states that THEY WILL NOT GO TO HIM.

Once again you mistake simple declaratory statement as an apologetic for unsaVED BEING ABLE TO GO TO GOD OF THEIR FALLEN NATURE. Yes it does say8 they will not come, but it doesn't say why or how they would come. they don't come because jesus said they are not of His sheep, sop they are not given to jesus by the Father nor are they drawn to Jesus by the Father. See the NT explains why this statement is true. they will not because they cannot.

Again...this denotes free will.
Free will is all over the NT....can't get away from it RN.

Well then you should easily flood me with verses that prove your hypotheses above.

1. John 10:26
   But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
   John 10:27
   My sheep hear myvoice, and I know them, and they follow me:
   See those who don't believe were not given to Jesus by the Father. That is mans natural state- lost lost lost! Natural man cannot understand the things of God and cannot please God! How can a person who doesn't wan to please God choose christ in his singful nature?
   
   

2. I agree.
   
   So reply to my post to you just now....in the same way that I replied to yours.

   
   I di dpost many verses and you complained! Have you now changed your mind.
   

   I commented on John 6:37, 39 and 44.
   
   Now please reply and exegete the verses I've posted.
   Thanks.

   
   37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
   
   Very simple. every person the Father gives to Jesus will come to Him. and those that come to Him He won't cast out. Because Jesus will not cast out anyone who comes to Him, then there are people who do not come to Him, which means they were not given to jesus by the Father.
   

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

simple again! a reiteration of verse 37! Everyone the Father gives to Jesus, Jesus will not lose one of them, just as it says.

You need to prove you add on of a person saved by faith- then they are given to Jesus.

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Once again a simple exegesis. No one can go to Jesus unless teh Father draws them to jesus. IN ordeer to be drawn, they have to be given to Jesus. Every one that god the Father gives to jesus will come and Jesus will not cast them out.

Remember the parables of the wheat and tares and teh sheep and goats.

The saved are sheep, not goats turned to sheep (chosen before the foundation of the world in Ephesians 1)

we are also wheat, not tares turned to wheatr.

 

[amigo de christo]

I agree.

So reply to my post to you just now....in the same way that I replied to yours.

i hate to be the bringer of sad and heavy news
but it seems to not matter what any denomination one now sits under
the one thing they finding common ground on is THE LIE of interfaith and all that is unholy .
I pray you do not take one step into its web of deciet . many prostestants have as well as many catholics
I see errors in both camps but none will listen , sorry i mean few will listen .
what i see within the FALSE RELIGOINS like muslim and others as well as christendome
IS they are all finding common ground now , AND IT AINT UNDER GOD either my friend .
The tears fill my eyes even as i typed that . I only desired good for all
but many are now going the way of finding common ground . IT AINT UNDER GOD my friend .
SATAN found a common phrase that all religoins use . THEY all have a mindset to love what they THINK is GOD
and their neighbor . FOLKS will fall for the lie . I cannot stop it . i knew i never could .
YOU SEE satan knows how to quoate scrip . HE can quoate EVEN THE GOLDEN RULE .
but beware him for HE contradicts both it AND HE WHO GAVE USTHAT RULE . watch out his men are very slick .

 

[amigo de christo]

I agree.

So reply to my post to you just now....in the same way that I replied to yours.

quaote the two great commandments . the lovely commandments which would have FULLFILLED it all .
Go on quoate the golden rule .
WHEN i read your quote i will respond and truly prove to you HOW satan can lip it yet CONTRADICTS IT and
only IN CHRIST can this be done . i can prove that too .

 

[Behold]

IN ordeer to be drawn, they have to be given to Jesus.

That is Hyper-Calvinism nonsense.
That is the "pre-destined" John Calvinism, "doctrine of devils:" you feel a compulsion to rant.

The reality is.. Jesus said..>>>"If i be lifted up (on the Cross) I will DRAW.... ALL people to myself".

Lying Calvinists, who are mind owned by Calvinism, deny the "ALL" because they are programmed by a devil, named J. Calvin... to only see the words "elect", and "predestined" as if those are the only 2 words and 2 concepts found in the entire NT.

That is their OBSESSION, that is caused by John Calvin's "doctrine of devils".

Its a MIND Trap, and they are LOCKED UP.............The NT refers to this mind blindness as a "strong hold".

Paul says they are "Bewitched" by a "MAN"., and that is why they are obsessed with CALVINISM.

 

[amigo de christo]

That is Hyper-Calvinism nonsense.
That is the "pre-destined" John Calvinism, "doctrine of devils:" you feel a compulsion to rant.

The reality is.. Jesus said..>>>"If i be lifted up (on the Cross) I will DRAW.... ALL people to myself".

Lying Calvinists, who are mind owned by Calvinism, deny the "ALL" because they are programmed by a devil, named J. Calvin... to only see the words "elect", and "predestined" as if those are the only 2 words and 2 concepts found in the entire NT.

That is their OBSESSION, that is caused by John Calvin's "doctrine of devils".

Its a MIND Trap, and they are LOCKED UP.............The NT refers to this mind blindness as a "strong hold".

Paul says they are "Bewitched" by a "MAN"., and that is why they are obsessed with CALVINISM.

take note one and all , GOD draws one TO CHRIST , not to budda allah and any other dung pile religon
If a man BELEIVES NOT JESUS IS THE CHRIST , THAT MAN HAS NOT THE TRUTH IN HIM . HE FOLLOWS NOT GOD
but walks in darkness and gropes wildly and blindly for any and for all to guide him and the blind lead that man RIGHT TO THE DITCH .
So what i have reminded all so now i remind us again . INTEFAITH IS OF ANTI CHRIST
for it bodly says the christain truth is no better than any other religoins truth .
ONLY the last time i checked , ITS JESUS WHO IS THE TRUTH , I MEAN THE ACTUAL TRUTH ITSELF
the way and the LIFE . and JESUS NEVER said , BELIEVE AS THOU WILT there are many paths just hug and love .
Satan says that lie . cause satan LIES . end of transmission .

 

[Ronald Nolette]

That is Hyper-Calvinism nonsense.
That is the "pre-destined" John Calvinism, "doctrine of devils:" you feel a compulsion to rant.

The reality is.. Jesus said..>>>"If i be lifted up (on the Cross) I will DRAW.... ALL people to myself".

Lying Calvinists, who are mind owned by Calvinism, deny the "ALL" because they are programmed by a devil, named J. Calvin... to only see the words "elect", and "predestined" as if those are the only 2 words and 2 concepts found in the entire NT.

That is their OBSESSION, that is caused by John Calvin's "doctrine of devils".

Its a MIND Trap, and they are LOCKED UP.............The NT refers to this mind blindness as a "strong hold".

Paul says they are "Bewitched" by a "MAN"., and that is why they are obsessed with CALVINISM.

No it is what the bible says as written!

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Romans 8:8

King James Version

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8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Being bereft of teaching Scripture, you have been reduced to just accusations, slander and ad-hominems.

In over a dozen threads, you have failed to prove one of your false accusations with Scripture. You just use Scripture to try to falsely accuse teh brethren.

 

[GodsGrace]

No it is what the bible says as written!

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Romans 8:8​

​

King James Version​

​

​

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Being bereft of teaching Scripture, you have been reduced to just accusations, slander and ad-hominems.

In over a dozen threads, you have failed to prove one of your false accusations with Scripture. You just use Scripture to try to falsely accuse teh brethren.

The above is all very true RN.
So you're not a Calvinist?
Or you can't find any verses that SPECIFICALLY state what calvinists believe??

It might be no. 2 because the NT does NOT teach Calvinism.

Will get to your long post ASAP.

PS
This is something all calvinists do.
They quote scripture that ALL Christians believe THINKING that it somehow supports their theology....
but that's only because they come to scripture with a set of beliefs that are nowhere to be found in scripture.

I think it's a good idea to go to the bible and see what it has to teach us.
Not go there thinking we already know what it teaches and post verses that have nothing to do with calvinism.

 

[Behold]

No it is what the bible says as written!

THe bible is spiritually discerned.

So, when you just read it, you get nothing, and that is part of your issue with the scriptures.
THe other part, is that John Calvin has you teaching His Theology, and you believe its "the bible".

That is the deception, that Calvin causes in people, like you.

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

You are taking the verse out of Context.

The context is verse 40., and i'll show you down below....

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that EVERY ONE which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."""

See the EVERY ONE who Believes?

Notice that Jesus didnt say..>>>>"only the pre-destined"?

Why is that?

Because this is JOHN's Gospel.. and John told you, that "WHOSOEVER Believes".... and that means ALL
EVERY One...

= This is John 3:16, that explains, the '"every one".. .in your verse.

King James Version8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.​

Yes, and that means when a religious person, is trying to lead Christians to John Calvin, they cannot please God.

Thats you for over 30 yrs, @Ronald Nolette

You are the SELLER of Calvinism, and that is not Christianity... that is a Disciple of Calvin, obeying His Master. @Ronald Nolette

Listen..

A Christian, leads people to CHRIST.

A Calvinist leads people to CALVIN.. as you try to do.. constantly, because you are owned by this Man who was a Cross Rejecting Heretic.
He is your reason to be on the Forum.
He is your reason to be in your church.
All you do is SELL Calvinism, and that is not of GOD.

 

[amigo de christo]

THe bible is spiritually discerned.

So, when you just read it, you get nothing, and that is part of your issue with the scriptures.
THe other part, is that John Calvin has you teaching His Theology, and you believe its "the bible".

That is the deception, that Calvin causes in people, like you.





You are taking the verse out of Context.

The context is verse 40., and i'll show you down below....





40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that EVERY ONE which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."""

See the EVERY ONE who Believes?

Notice that Jesus didnt say..>>>>"only the pre-destined"?

Why is that?

Because this is JOHN's Gospel.. and John told you, that "WHOSOEVER Believes".... and that means ALL
EVERY One

This is John 3:16, that explains, the '"every one".. .in your verse.




Yes, and that means when a religious person, is trying to lead Christians to John Calvin, they cannot please God.

Thats you.

You are the SELLER of Calvinism, and that is not Christianity... that is a Disciple of Calvin, obeying His Master. @Ronald Nolette

you and this man battle it out like no other . YET i i seeing something you both might be believing .
Not a one of you agrees one bit with my warnings against interfaith . NOW if you do realize its of satan and anti christ
THEN TRY letting me know you realize it . I see folks all over this site warring over pre , mid , osas , non osas
AND YET they seems to have one common thing they all headed right into . INTERFAITH .
Most go after me . I have not seen you go after me for warning against it , but i also dont seem to remember you agreeing either .
SO allow me some parting words . THIS FINDING common ground interfaith abraham peace accords religious tolerance
WHICH BOTH THE POPE , THE LEADERS OF INTERFAITH and YES TRUMP and vance do follow ,
IS OF ANTI CHRIST . if you think them words are too harsh then perhaps i should say ITS OF SATAN . OOPS .

 

[Behold]

Not a one of you agrees one bit with my warnings against interfaith

My Home Church is not a "denomination".

We are a bible believing Autonomous , Local Assembly of born again Believers.

My Church Membership = is a Messianic Congregation .

So, as far as it being "inter-faith"........Well, we allow everyone to come and join us celebrate Jesus and His Free Gift of Salvation.
We have services that are different then what you find in America, , in most "mainline" Denominations..
WE have more the one speaker, who shares a scriptural message.... we have a lot more of praise and worship.. .. we have a "break time" where members can just bond in love with each other, and celebrate Jesus and have some apple pieces and honey, or Milk and Coffee.

I think the American term is "laid back"... or "Free in Jesus"......is how we allow a service to serve the believer and honor Jesus The Christ.
We dont "watch the clock".. so, when a member or visitor needs to get up and go..then .. its no biggie........come back again soon.

What a church service should feel like is a big happy and holy family reunion, as we are all the Family of God, born again. come together again to give Jesus and The Father our love and devotion.

 

[amigo de christo]

My Home Church is not a "denomination".

We are a bible believing Autonomous , Local Assembly of born again Believers.

My Church Membership = is a Messianic Congregation .

So, as far as it being "inter-faith"........Well, we allow everyone to come and join us celebrate Jesus and His Free Gift of Salvation.
We have services that are different then what you find in America, , in most "mainline" Denominations..
WE have more the one speaker, who shares a scriptural message.... we have a lot more of praise and worship.. .. we have a "break time" where members can just bond in love with each other, and celebrate Jesus and have some apple pieces and honey, or Milk and Coffee.

I think the American term is "laid back"... or "Free in Jesus"......is how we allow a service to serve the believer and honor Jesus The Christ.
We dont "watch the clock".. so, when a member or visitor needs to get up and go..then .. its no biggie........come back again soon.

What a church service should feel like is a big happy and holy family reunion, as we are all the Family of God, born again. come together again to give Jesus and The Father our love and devotion.

interfaith is not about that my friend . That is a trick . i already know that anyone is welcome to come to a church .
INTERFAITH is saying flat out , IF you pay attention to its main leaders , that our truth is no better than the truth of them false religoins .
ITs not at all about Saying JESUS is the only way , its about implying we all , every religoin , is okay
YOU GO and you look and you see what the key leaders of this interfaith teach .
I bet the moment you do , you gonna gasp in shock . we are being lied too friend .

 

[Behold]

INTERFAITH is saying flat out , IF you pay attention to its main leaders , that our truth is no better than the truth of them false religoins .

I never listen to those types of "leaders".

So, any preacher, pastor, minister, bishop, or Pope, who declares that "all truth is relative"... is a disciple of the Devil.

Jesus is THE Truth......not some, or most , or , partly..

John 14:6

See, the first one who stated that "there is no truth, there is just your opinion and mine"... and "who said that bible is true"/.

He is the first Bible Corrector, who uses the "original Greek" : that does not exist.
He is the original one who lived and still lives to cast DOUBT on the Bible using His minions.

He is the one who heard God's word and said...>>>>"Hath God really said that?.. Is that what the verse really means"... "shouldnt we be open to multiple interpretations, so that nothing is clear, nothing is foundational, nothing is TRUTH... and everything is obscured"?

A.) That is The Devil, in the Garden.

He is the Originator of.. "Lets Globalize the world... get rid of all borders, and dumb down the entire world population into one immoral truth rejecting Human Rights Obsessed, MOB.. and then im going to show up and be the Dictator and have them take my MARK if they want to buy and sell and eat and drink.

AA.) See HIM in the Great Trib for that experience, ... if you are not born again when it starts.. Reader, as you will be in it........You'll see HIM.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that EVERY ONE which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."""

See the EVERY ONE who Believes?

Notice that Jesus didnt say..>>>>"only the pre-destined"?

Why is that?

Because this is JOHN's Gospel.. and John told you, that "WHOSOEVER Believes".... and that means ALL
EVERY One...

= This is John 3:16, that explains, the '"every one".. .in your verse.

And it doesn't say those who exercise free will either.

If you knew basic primary grammar, you would know this is a simple declaratory statement making a simply statement.

I believe in these passages 100% but they do not say how or by what means any one believes. YOu rproblem is you have been so indoctrinated in Armenian theology that you see a generic term like "everyone" and have been brain washed into thinking this means free will. It doesn't nor does it point to election or predestination. It is a simple statement of fact.

Any other verses you have misinterpreted you like to bring forward to prove your false hypotheis that the 5 points are wrong?

THe bible is spiritually discerned.

So, when you just read it, you get nothing, and that is part of your issue with the scriptures.
THe other part, is that John Calvin has you teaching His Theology, and you believe its "the bible".

That is the deception, that Calvin causes in people, like you.

There are professional doctors who can help with this intense obsessive thinking patterns you have.

Yes, and that means when a religious person, is trying to lead Christians to John Calvin, they cannot please God.

Thats you for over 30 yrs, @Ronald Nolette

Well now you have proven you fail at knowing Scripture.
You fail at understanding basic grammar
and now you fail at basic exegesis and understanding.

Have the last word on this thread if you wish.

I have tired of trying to get you to act with any hint of integrity.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The above is all very true RN.
So you're not a Calvinist?
Or you can't find any verses that SPECIFICALLY state what calvinists believe??

It might be no. 2 because the NT does NOT teach Calvinism.

Will get to your long post ASAP.

PS
This is something all calvinists do.
They quote scripture that ALL Christians believe THINKING that it somehow supports their theology....
but that's only because they come to scripture with a set of beliefs that are nowhere to be found in scripture.

I think it's a good idea to go to the bible and see what it has to teach us.
Not go there thinking we already know what it teaches and post verses that have nothing to do with calvinism.

And it is what all Arminiasts do as well. go to the bible thining they already know.

I am a biblicist. I have learned over 50 years that what we call the five points are solidly establishedin Scripture.

YOu say they are not biblical, so when are you fgoing to sahow me Scripture that refutes the five points?

In stead of ad-hominems and opinions and commentary, why not show where the NT shows the five points of Arminiasm. That is the only alternative in this doctrinal discussion that has any bearing at all.

And if the verses I posted have nothing to do with the 5 points (for the five points are what is being discussed here) then show why they are not.

Making an accusation without evidential support is the tool of Behold. Please do not be like him.

As for you rlast line? Please stop trying to think you know my mind and heart. You really do suck at it.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I think it's a good idea to go to the bible and see what it has to teach us.
Not go there thinking we already know what it teaches and post verses that have nothing to do with calvinism.

So are you saying you have no certain knowledge of anything the bible teaches? Or do yopu go to the bible thinking you have already learned things teh bible teaches and you are just hurling a not subtle ad-hominem?

If you are not sure you know anything with any certainty with whatr the bible teaches please tewll me. for then this is a futile discussion for you can't even be sure you know what you think you know!

 

[Behold]

And it doesn't say those who exercise free will either.

Everyone has free will.

The reason you continue to try to sell Calvinism to real born again believers, is because you are using your free will to do it.
That's why YOU are accountable for your decision to continue to try to deceive people.

I believe in these passages 100% but they do not say how or by what means any one believes.

, """"""according as God hath dealt to > everyone = the measure of faith.""""

YOu rproblem is you have been so indoctrinated in Armenian theology

Pauline Theology.
I only believe it, and Teach it.
See 99% of my Posts and Threads, for that absolute clarification.

Any other verses you have misinterpreted you like to bring forward to prove your false hypotheis that the 5 points are wrong?

Im not the devil led one who feels compelled to try to sell the "5-points" to try to deceive Christians.

Or didnt you notice ?

There are professional doctors who can help with this intense obsessive thinking patterns you have.

Calvin doesnt own my mind, little man.

You are the Calvin Seller, who believes this is Christianity.

Here is an update for you..

God is not a Calvinist, and God never led a Christian to Believe Calvinism, or SELL IT.

 

[amigo de christo]

So are you saying you have no certain knowledge of anything the bible teaches? Or do yopu go to the bible thinking you have already learned things teh bible teaches and you are just hurling a not subtle ad-hominem?

If you are not sure you know anything with any certainty with whatr the bible teaches please tewll me. for then this is a futile discussion for you can't even be sure you know what you think you know!

you have been fat fingering the key board my friend . I do that often myself .
you might be typing fast friend . I do that often myself .