Freed : From Calvinism and HyperCalvinism )Tulip<>5 Pont.

[GodsGrace]

None so blind as those who refuse to see.

By rejecting the five biblical points of Calvinism, you by default make your self an acolyte of Jacob Arminius!

But here is a favorite from the Apostle Paul under teh inspiration of the Holy spirit:

Romans 9:14-24​

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King James Version​

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14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

In this divinely Inspired passage Paul wrote, He clearly and plainly declares three of the five points we call Calvinism oh benighted acolyte of Jacob Arminius.

You know Ronald Nolette....
Romans 9 is all you have.
Unfortunately for you and those that believe as you do, Romans 9 is speaking of corporate salvation.
It's speaking about ISRAEL and not about individual salvation.

I'm always willing to discuss Romans 9,,,which I also did with another member...but then I get no reply.
Why?
Because it's not as easy as you MIGHT THINK it is and it takes time to discuss.

Here's what Romans 9 is stating:

God will have mercy on whom He will have mercy just means that He chose the Israelites for the purpose of revealing Himself...
Paul had asked if God's word had failed because Israel was unfaithful. The entire chapters, 9, 10 and 11 are about ISRAEL.

God raised Pharaoh in order to show His power during the escape of the Israelites from Egypt.
God hardened P's heart -after he had hardened his own heart - so that the first Passover would happen.

Paul is comparing the hardened hearts of Pharaoh to the hardened hearts of the Israelites of his own time.
God showed mercy to the Israelites in the OT in order to accomplish His promise through them..the promise of the Messiah...
and NOW God is h ardening the hearts of the Israelites in the NT in order to accomplish His promise through them.

These Jews were not hard-hearted at birth but after years of rebellion.
Acts 28:27-28
26saying,
‘GO TO THIS PEOPLE AND SAY,
“YOU WILL KEEP ON HEARING, BUT WILL NOT UNDERSTAND;
AND YOU WILL KEEP ON SEEING, BUT WILL NOT PERCEIVE;

27FOR THE HEART OF THIS PEOPLE HAS BECOME DULL,
AND WITH THEIR EARS THEY SCARCELY HEAR,
AND THEY HAVE CLOSED THEIR EYES;
OTHERWISE THEY MIGHT SEE WITH THEIR EYES,
AND HEAR WITH THEIR EARS,
AND UNDERSTAND WITH THEIR HEART AND RETURN,
AND I WOULD HEAL THEM.”’

28“Therefore let it be known to you that this salvation of God has been sent to the Gentiles; they will also listen.” 29[When he had spoken these words, the Jews departed, having a great dispute among themselves.

In order to fulfill His promise of salvation to all nations...
God will show mercy to the unfaithful when necessary and will harden the unfaithful when necessary.
In this case....ISRAEL is being spoken of....not any individual person.

Romans 11:20 shows that it is God's wish that they be grafted back in. The unfaithful....Israel.

If you'd like to reply to the above,,,,I'll be happy to continue.

 

[Ritajanice]

The Holy Spirit is the divine revelation of Gods truth, he is the witness to Jesus...only he can say Jesus is Lord...man can’t do that,....we must be birthed in our spirit to know who Jesus said he was in the Bible, it comes by divine heart revelation.by his messenger the Holy Spirit.

It’s because of the death and resurrection of Jesus, that we can become Born Of The Spirit..I never heard no gospel message, I became Born Again by divine heart revelation.

Just like Gods word says, it confirms Gods truth,.

 

[Ritajanice]

10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Amen.

 

[Ritajanice]

The Born Again have spiritual eyes to see and spiritual ears to hear...they grow and develop in the power of the Spirit...we were once in the flesh, we are now in the spirit, we learn spiritual matters , not worldly matters that has no substance.

1 Corinthians 2:13-15​

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King James Version​

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13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.


Another commentary / opinion/ interpretation of said scriptures




Stephen addresses the Sanhedrin as "uncircumcised in heart and ears". This means they are spiritually deaf and blind. They cannot understand spiritual truth. The natural man cannot receive spiritual truth. He lacks the spiritual faculty to understand it

 

[amigo de christo]

The Holy Spirit is the divine revelation of Gods truth, he is the witness to Jesus...only he can say Jesus is Lord...man can’t do that,....we must be birthed in our spirit to know who Jesus said he was in the Bible, it comes by divine heart revelation.by his messenger the Holy Spirit.

It’s because of the death and resurrection of Jesus, that we can become Born Of The Spirit..I never heard no gospel message, I became Born Again by divine heart revelation.

Just like Gods word says, it confirms Gods truth,.

Only by the SPIRIT can one call HIM LORD . and by the SAME SPIRIT would no man seperate HIM OUT .
which means all religoins are false and are not and have not been born again .
Now of course we do have lip only within christendom too . these too are not born again , they use HIS name
but their fruits are twice dead as they slumber and love sin .

 

[amigo de christo]

The Born Again have spiritual eyes to see and spiritual ears to hear...they grow and develop in the power of the Spirit...we were once in the flesh, we are now in the spirit, we learn spiritual matters , not worldly matters that has no substance.

1 Corinthians 2:13-15​

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King James Version​

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13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.


Another commentary / opinion/ interpretation of said scriptures




Stephen addresses the Sanhedrin as "uncircumcised in heart and ears". This means they are spiritually deaf and blind. They cannot understand spiritual truth. The natural man cannot receive spiritual truth. He lacks the spiritual faculty to understand it

ask any other religion or athiest etc if they BELIEVE JESUS IS THE CHRIST and that one must BELIEVE ON HIM .
THEY all DENY HIM sister . if a man denies JESUS is the Christ that man be a liar and an anti christ .
If any believes not the testimony that GOD ALL MIGHTY , the ONE TRUE GOD and FATHER OF CHRIST JESUS , gave
of JESUS the CHRIST , they call GOD a liar .
IF a man call GOD a liar , tell me is the man the liar or GOD the liar . EXACTLY . THE MAN BE A LIAR not GOD .
There is good reason i continually keep reminding us of these things , EVEN though some KNOW IT already .
Cause i am watching more and more try to bring OMNIST views and etc
which REFUSE to REMIND OF THE DIRE NEED TO BELEIVE JESUS is the CHRIST
but rather try and preach any kind of reminder on how its not necessary to have to have had to BELIEVE ON HIM .
IN other words i am watching a spirit of anti christ doing all it can to pump out and to give fALSE HOPE
to the world. Satan loveth not mankind , so He gonna do all he can to take them down with him .

 

[Marvelloustime]

Only by the SPIRIT can one call HIM LORD . and by the SAME SPIRIT would no man seperate HIM OUT .
which means all religoins are false and are not and have not been born again .
Now of course we do have lip only within christendom too . these too are not born again , they use HIS name
but their fruits are twice dead as they slumber and love sin .

@amigo de christo

 

[Marvelloustime]

ask any other religion or athiest etc if they BELIEVE JESUS IS THE CHRIST and that one must BELIEVE ON HIM .
THEY all DENY HIM sister . if a man denies JESUS is the Christ that man be a liar and an anti christ .
If any believes not the testimony that GOD ALL MIGHTY , the ONE TRUE GOD and FATHER OF CHRIST JESUS , gave
of JESUS the CHRIST , they call GOD a liar .
IF a man call GOD a liar , tell me is the man the liar or GOD the liar . EXACTLY . THE MAN BE A LIAR not GOD .
There is good reason i continually keep reminding us of these things , EVEN though some KNOW IT already .
Cause i am watching more and more try to bring OMNIST views and etc
which REFUSE to REMIND OF THE DIRE NEED TO BELEIVE JESUS is the CHRIST
but rather try and preach any kind of reminder on how its not necessary to have to have had to BELIEVE ON HIM .
IN other words i am watching a spirit of anti christ doing all it can to pump out and to give fALSE HOPE
to the world. Satan loveth not mankind , so He gonna do all he can to take them down with him .

@amigo de christo

 

[Behold]

When the Holy Spirit penetrates the spirit of the forgiven child of God, they then have the faith to believe in Christ i

The HS never gives faith to anyone.
The HS never causes anyone to believe in Jesus.

What the HS does is reveal the Truth, so that a person can Believe it.

 

[Behold]

Acts 7:51
51“You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did.

You posted verse has correlation verses.

One is Hebrews 10.....>>"sinning willfully" and there remains no more sacrifice for sin"..

What is that? That is a Christ Rejector, willfully refusing to trust in Christ, when they know its TRUE.

Then the verse says......"and there remains no more sacrifice for your sin"......... and that is because you WILLFULLY rejected JESUS who is the only "sacrifice" for sin.

Then we can read Acts 28:28, as its the same...... and you have Jews who are willfully refusing to believe........and Paul tells them..>"ok then, i'll take my Gospel to the GENTILES and they will BELIEVE IT"

So, notice that Paul never told those Jews...>>"well, its ok that you didn't believe, .. you were not PRE-DESTINTED to believe".

See that? So, Calvin Twists Paul's verses, and yet Paul doesn't because Paul knows they are WILLFULLY sinning... by FREE WILL.

And notice that Paul does not say...>>."and i will take my Gospel to the Gentiles, because some of them are pre-destined to believe".

So, ..
The issue with Calvinism is that its a LIE.. Its a "doctrine of Devils", and Calvin was one... He was under the influence of the demonic, and that is why His Theology is a CROSS DENYING Heresy.

 

[amigo de christo]

The HS never gives faith to anyone.
The HS never causes anyone to believe in Jesus.

What the HS does is reveal the Truth, so that a person can Believe it.

and WHO IS THE TRUTH . JESUS IS . the HOLY SPIRIT draws one to CHRIST
who REVEALS THE FATHER unto them . but many heed not the HOLY SPIRIT
though it has called many . the fault lies on man , NOT GOD .
GOD did EVERYTHING necessary for salvation THROUGH CHRIST JESUS THE SON .
Many choose to beleive and to love a lie rather than THE TRUTH . they do so unto their own destruction .
and worse , much worse is that many within christendom itself
USE the name of JESUS to promote an abomination , a lie . WELL I AM GONNA EXPOSE EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM
and they false interfaith doctrine , false love , big ol broad path sin accepting lie . and no MAN , i repeat NO MAN
can stop me . And if even i am killed , no worries nor weeping for me , GOD HAS OTHERS who already
are at work and will continue to work .
THIS WORK . what must be do to do the works of GOD , BELIEVE YE IN JESUS THE CHRIST . that WORK
shall be the WORK I PREACH . and no one can stop me till my GOD decides my time is up .

 

[Ritajanice]

God brings us to repentance he brings us to believe in Jesus, just as his word says, those who deny Gods word do so at their own peril,.....he then birthed me in the Spirit and gave me the faith to believe in my heart, the Holy Spirit is Gods Witness, he witnesses Gods truth to our heart when we have been Born Of The Spirit ....Faith is a supernatural gift from God, those who preach this as a lie are in error,...God via His Spirit gifts us the faith to believe in our spirit, those who preach this as a lie, have no understanding of supernatural faith..their faith is limited it can’t go into the realm of Gods supernatural power, I take no heed of their preaching and just continue to post what I believe the Holy Spirit is witnessing to my spirit and will continue to do so in Jesus Name..Amen!

Faith is a supernatural gift from God and the Holy Spirit will not allow me to deny that truth.
Short commentary.
What are the two types of faith in the Bible?
According to James, there are two different kinds of faith, mere faith and saving faith, and saving faith always involves deeds, always acts on what it believes, and the failure to act shows it is not saving faith. Faith without deeds is useless, for it is the deeds which “complete” it , which make it real faith.

 

[amigo de christo]

God brings us to repentance he brings us to believe in Jesus,he then birthed me in the Spirit and gave me the faith to believe in my heart, the Holy Spirit is Gods Witness, he witnesses Gods truth to our heart when we have been Born Of The Spirit ....Faith is a supernatural gift from God, those who preach this as a lie are in error,...God via His Spirit gifts us the faith to believe in our spirit, those who preach this as a lie, have no understanding of supernatural faith..their faith is limited it can’t go into the realm of Gods supernatural power, I take no heed of their preaching and just continue to post what I believe the Holy Spirit is witnessing to my spirit and will continue to do so in Jesus Name..Amen!

always remember NO LIE , no matter how loving , kind and caring it seems , IS OF THE TRUTH .
No LIE is of THE TRUTH .
so heed none who try and make anyone believe there is no need to BELEIVE JESUS IS THE CHRIST . Heed not a word
outta they lips .
GARDEN TIME . GOD said In the day ye eat of the tree ye shall surely die . DID HE LIE or DID THE SERPENT LIE .
Forward to the days of JESUS . JESUS said , AND IF HE SAID IT GOD SAID IT, IF ye believe not that i am HE you will DIE in your sins .
That he who believes shall be saved but that he who beleives not shall be damned .
NOW Do we think JESUS LIED or is it men lying who try and say OH NO surely they wont be damned . A hint . ITS MEN LYING NOT GOD .

 

[amigo de christo]

No lie is of the truth .
WHO is a liar , ANYONE who denies JESUS IS THE CHRIST he is anti christ .
ANYONE who believes not the testimony that GOD gave of the SON is calling GOD ALL MIGHTY a LIAR .
HE who hears us is OF GOD and he who hears not us is NOT of GOD .
THEM WORDS can BE FOUND IN THE BIBLE .

 

[amigo de christo]

God brings us to repentance he brings us to believe in Jesus, just as his word says, those who deny Gods word do so at their own peril,.....he then birthed me in the Spirit and gave me the faith to believe in my heart, the Holy Spirit is Gods Witness, he witnesses Gods truth to our heart when we have been Born Of The Spirit ....Faith is a supernatural gift from God, those who preach this as a lie are in error,...God via His Spirit gifts us the faith to believe in our spirit, those who preach this as a lie, have no understanding of supernatural faith..their faith is limited it can’t go into the realm of Gods supernatural power, I take no heed of their preaching and just continue to post what I believe the Holy Spirit is witnessing to my spirit and will continue to do so in Jesus Name..Amen!

Faith is a supernatural gift from God and the Holy Spirit will not allow me to deny that truth.

The GOODNESS of GOD leadeth thee to REPENTANCE . yep .

 

[GodsGrace]

You posted verse has correlation verses.

One is Hebrews 10.....>>"sinning willfully" and there remains no more sacrifice for sin"..

What is that? That is a Christ Rejector, willfully refusing to trust in Christ, when they know its TRUE.

Then the verse says......"and there remains no more sacrifice for your sin"......... and that is because you WILLFULLY rejected JESUS who is the only "sacrifice" for sin.

Then we can read Acts 28:28, as its the same...... and you have Jews who are willfully refusing to believe........and Paul tells them..>"ok then, i'll take my Gospel to the GENTILES and they will BELIEVE IT"

So, notice that Paul never told those Jews...>>"well, its ok that you didn't believe, .. you were not PRE-DESTINTED to believe".

See that? So, Calvin Twists Paul's verses, and yet Paul doesn't because Paul knows they are WILLFULLY sinning... by FREE WILL.

And notice that Paul does not say...>>."and i will take my Gospel to the Gentiles, because some of them are pre-destined to believe".

So, ..
The issue with Calvinism is that its a LIE.. Its a "doctrine of Devils", and Calvin was one... He was under the influence of the demonic, and that is why His Theology is a CROSS DENYING Heresy.

Of course the above is all good.

What I was doing was narrowing it down to ONE VERSE so MAYBE the other member would reply.
But it seems I never get really good replies.

It's usually someone telling me how I misunderstand Calvinism...or how badly I exegete scripture, or how I don't understand the Greek...etc. etc.

I never get a reply explaining the other member's understanding of the verses I post.
This is because it's very difficult to argue AGAINST plain and simple scripture that DOES NOT support reformed theology/calvinism/the 5 points....whatever anyone wants to call it.

But, alas, have I received a reply to my verse that you're quoting here?
No.
And I probably won't.

I was hoping for some replies from @Bruce-Leiter .... but, alas, even he won't reply to my posts and he's a pastor or something and should know his belief system very well.

Will just keep waiting....I liked atpollard, but he's gone forever from the few forums I know about.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Let's have a serious discussion RN.

Reply to this verse:

Acts 7:51
51“You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did.


One of the 5 points is Irrisisteble Grace....IOW,,,,,man cannot resist God's grace. If God wants to save a man...He will and the man has no free will to deny God's grace.

If IG is correct theology, WHY does Stephen make the statement in Acts 7?
Why does he state that some are ALWAYS RESISTING THE HOLY SPIRIT?

Sounds like the Holy Spirit CAN be resisted.
Sounds like IR is a false teaching.

Well if this was just the only verse describing whether or not man has free will, you would have a case! also, these resist the Holy Spirit and not Gods Grace--big difference.

But we must look at the whole counsel of Scripture to form the truth.

1. You are saying that when it comes to a man, mans will is sovereign over Gods Will. god may will a man to be saved but you imply that if the man doesn't want to be saved, God is powerless against mans will.

2. Unsaved man by nature will not and cannot respond to Gods grace.

Romans 8:7-8

King James Version

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7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

1 Corinthians 2:14

King James Version

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14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Ephesians 2

King James Version

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2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

and finally:

Romans 9:15-16

King James Version

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15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

And if you try to say this is for Jews only, Paul closes this argument with this declaration:

Romans 9:24

King James Version

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24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

the natural man in and of themself will resist the Holy Spirit, it is the nature of natural man.

But Jesus showed how people do come to Him:

John 1:12-13

King James Version

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12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. draw here is compel.

John 6:65
And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

John 6:37
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

John 6:39
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

See the strong implication of free will is that mans will when it comes to salvation is sovereign over Gods will and yet these verses show no man can come to Jesus unless compelled and given to Jesus by god.

 

[Ritajanice]

Short commentary.

What is the gift of faith in supernatural?
The ``gift of faith'' refers to a special spiritual ability given by Holy Spirit to an individual to believe in Him, His promises, and His power and His love with unwavering confidence.

RJ says,,Amen!

 

[GodsGrace]

Well if this was just the only verse describing whether or not man has free will, you would have a case! also, these resist the Holy Spirit and not Gods Grace--big difference.

But we must look at the whole counsel of Scripture to form the truth.

1. You are saying that when it comes to a man, mans will is sovereign over Gods Will. god may will a man to be saved but you imply that if the man doesn't want to be saved, God is powerless against mans will.

2. Unsaved man by nature will not and cannot respond to Gods grace.

Romans 8:7-8​

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King James Version​

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7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

1 Corinthians 2:14​

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King James Version​

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14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Ephesians 2​

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King James Version​

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2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

and finally:

Romans 9:15-16​

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King James Version​

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15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

And if you try to say this is for Jews only, Paul closes this argument with this declaration:

Romans 9:24​

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King James Version​

​

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24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

the natural man in and of themself will resist the Holy Spirit, it is the nature of natural man.

But Jesus showed how people do come to Him:

John 1:12-13​

​

King James Version​

​

​

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. draw here is compel.

John 6:65
And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

John 6:37
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

John 6:39
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

See the strong implication of free will is that mans will when it comes to salvation is sovereign over Gods will and yet these verses show no man can come to Jesus unless compelled and given to Jesus by god.

Typical.
And tiring.

I give you a verse,,,and you shoot back some back at me.

Is it possible to stick to one verse?

You're admitting that the verse supports my theology.

Fine.

Now could you give me back ONE that I could actually address so the discussion could continue?

Or do you actually expect me to reply to all the verses you've posted...
NONE OF WHICH SUPPORT YOUR THEOLOGY
because you're theology is not found in scripture.

Pick a couple....

AND
If you would be so kind as to reply to my post No. 41 which is addressing Romans 9 so you could quit posting it as if it were just normal verses because, apparently, you don't seem to understand Romans 9, 10 and 11.
Thanks.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Typical.
And tiring.

I give you a verse,,,and you shoot back some back at me.

Is it possible to stick to one verse?

You're admitting that the verse supports my theology.

Fine.

Now could you give me back ONE that I could actually address so the discussion could continue?

Or do you actually expect me to reply to all the verses you've posted...
NONE OF WHICH SUPPORT YOUR THEOLOGY
because you're theology is not found in scripture.

Pick a couple....

AND
If you would be so kind as to reply to my post No. 41 which is addressing Romans 9 so you could quit posting it as if it were just normal verses because, apparently, you don't seem to understand Romans 9, 10 and 11.
Thanks.

First to reply to verse 41.

There is no "corporate salvation" as you call it. there is only individual salvation. He uses the examples of Jacob and Esau as individuals as well as Pharoah.

Verses 1-5 is Israel as a nation. 6-8 transitions to individuals. all the pronouns from that point are are singular. If they were "corporate" they would be plural.

He then poses a rhetorical question from a hypothetical individual.

Paul delcared god will have mercy on whom he will and hardens (all singular) whom he will!

9 is very relevant. verses 18-24 are climatic! For he is speaking of individuals both of Jews and gentiles and not nations .

And I did not say that the verse supports YOUR theology. I said if it was the only verse on how people get saved it would lend some support. but I then told you we have to look at all verses on how people come or not come to god.

and of course the verses I posted support the biblical doctrine of election.

1 cor. 2, romans 8 and JOhn 6 verses all show the natural or unsaved man cannot come to God on trheir own, nor do they even want to!

But as you dismiss Romans 9 due to poor grammar, then take these three verses and try to defend free will from them. From JOhn 6.

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

the problem with your lone verse is that it is a simple statement of fact or a declaratory statement. what it does not do is explain how or why they resist the Spirit (not grace). the fact your verse declares, as far as the hows and whys have tro be determined in other verses, lijke I showed you.

An unsaved man can do nothing to please god. turning to Jesus of ones own unsaved human nature is something that pleases God and God said an unsaved person cannot do that.

Also in 1 Cor. 2 the unsaved does not even want to turn to God for the natural mind thinks it is foolishness.

Then one also has to consider the fact that when Stephen said that it was the time of transition from Israel to the church.

and your argument for Romans 9 has no merit. Israels hearts were always hardened as Judges through Malachi shows. there was ans always be a remnant.

Paul made it clear in romans 3 that no one seeks God! Unless you believe he was in error.

Jesus told th ePharisees:

John 5:39-40

King James Version

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39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Why will they not come? John 6:37&39&44. Not some mysterious free will that they decided on their own to not come. John 10:25-27 also bears that out!

YOu complain I write many verses. well I will make my case from Scripture and not philosophy or some kind of reasoining and improper use of a passage.