Offenders in the kingdom

[Scott Downey]

Matthew 15:24 takes place prior to the Gentiles being grafted in.

That matters not.
The unbelieving Jews are not the lost sheep of the house of Israel, as Abraham is NOT their father.
Hint, their father is Satan. And they are of the synagogue of Satan as mentioned in Revelation.

John 8

37 “I know that you are Abraham’s descendants, but you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. 38 I speak what I have seen with My Father, and you do what you have [n]seen with your father.”

39 They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.”

Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this. 41 You do the deeds of your father.”

 

[Timtofly]

What kind of a cloud in the heavens departs from earth as a scroll being rolled together?
It accompanies an earthquake.

The cloud they saw when Jesus ascended in Acts 1:9

"And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight."

Was your cloud available in the first century?

The angel said Jesus would return in like manner. Does that include the same cloud they saw when Jesus left?

 

[grafted branch]

That matters not.
The unbelieving Jews are not the lost sheep of the house of Israel, as Abraham is NOT their father.
Hint, their father is Satan. And they are of the synagogue of Satan as mentioned in Revelation.

John 8

37 “I know that you are Abraham’s descendants, but you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. 38 I speak what I have seen with My Father, and you do what you have [n]seen with your father.”

39 They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.”

Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this. 41 You do the deeds of your father.”

Right, the unbelieving Jews were sown by Satan and the believing Jews were sown by Jesus. That all took place prior to the cross and the Gentiles being grafted in.

 

[Scott Downey]

Right, the unbelieving Jews were sown by Satan and the believing Jews were sown by Jesus. That all took place prior to the cross and the Gentiles being grafted in.

The parable of the wheat and tares includes all believers sown both jew-gentile. till the end of the age-world

Where those sown by the devil are gathered and burned in the fire

And the people of God shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father God

37 He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

 

[grafted branch]

The parable of the wheat and tares includes all believers sown both jew-gentile. till the end of the age-world

Where those sown by the devil are gathered and burned in the fire

And the people of God shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father God

37 He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

The parable is about the end of the old covenant age which didn’t vanish until 70AD.

In Acts 15 it seemed good to the Holy Spirit to have different burdens for Gentiles than the Jews. The old covenant wasn’t valid after the cross but it didn’t vanish until that generation ended.

 

[Scott Downey]

The parable is about the end of the old covenant age which didn’t vanish until 70AD.

In Acts 15 it seemed good to the Holy Spirit to have different burdens for Gentiles than the Jews. The old covenant wasn’t valid after the cross but it didn’t vanish until that generation ended.

No the parable specifically refers to the time when all the tares (wicked, unbelievers) are cast into the fire to be destroyed.
Only the wheat, the people of God are left in the field, the world, the kingdom of God has filled the whole earth.

I still see many unbelievers (tares) walking around down here today.

 

[grafted branch]

I still see many unbelievers (tares) walking around down here today.

Ok, let’s take a look at that idea. We would then be commanded to let the tares grow among us, right? Wouldn’t believers who fought against Hitler have been willfully disobedient to God?

 

[Timtofly]

The parable is about the end of the old covenant age which didn’t vanish until 70AD.

In Acts 15 it seemed good to the Holy Spirit to have different burdens for Gentiles than the Jews. The old covenant wasn’t valid after the cross but it didn’t vanish until that generation ended.

Then the kingdom at that point would have been the 4th kingdom and it would be under the authority of Rome. It would not have belonged to God, nor Satan.

But as posted by others, no one would have been left in the entire Roman kingdom. The final harvest means just that - final.

There are only two types of humans at this harvest. There is not a third type who go on to repopulate the earth. Evidently the end was not in the first century. The end will be at the Second Coming.

 

[grafted branch]

Then the kingdom at that point would have been the 4th kingdom and it would be under the authority of Rome. It would not have belonged to God, nor Satan.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

The 4th kingdom at that point was under the authority of Jesus.

 

[Taken]

How do they know they are being watched, if they don't believe or even accept Jesus and God even exist?

How can they know God without seeing Him sitting on the GWT, or how do they know Jesus if they do not see the Lamb?

People are not hiding today, because they are taught there is no God. How do they learn the truth? Do you really think that hiding anywhere is going to prevent a person from being seen by God?

Seems to me, they are hiding so they do not have to see the face of God. Not that God is unable to see them.

God IS Invisible…Period….matters not if a Person is a believer or not.

There are MANY people, who DOUBT, who REJECT belief….
HOWEVER…I would “guesstimate” the MAJORITY of the world “NOW” has “heard” About God, About Jesus, About Gods INTENTIONS….and certainly “presume” by the time the LAST Tribulations sent from Heaven….the SAME WILL APPLY with increase of People of the World “having Heard”.

The People “Speaking” in Revelation “hoping” to be “HIDDEN, NOT SEEN BY God”….Are also Displaying…oh, oh, oh, that stuff they HEARD about God Destroying the Earth is Happening….

And IF you pay attention …. Historically random men have “thought” extreme weather or earth eruptions …. MIGHT BE…the beginning of Revelations.
AND….if it were….THEY MISSED THE RAPTURE!

(And on a civil note…IF you are playing hide and seek….do you WANT the one who will be “seeking you”….to SEE you…? SEE where you are hiding? )

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Timtofly]

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

The 4th kingdom at that point was under the authority of Jesus.

No, that would have been a 5th kingdom, and Rome would no longer have had any authority.

Jesus also said:

"Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not? And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's."

Why did Jesus recognize the authority of Rome, if Jesus was currently sitting on a throne over all the earth as King?

The context of your verse does not mean Jesus would take over human government. It meant that He had the authority to do so, but the time to do so was not at that point. Jesus has always maintained that power and authority even as the Word from the very beginning in Genesis 1. Jesus is the alpha and omega, the beginning and the end.

Your quoted passage goes on to say:

"Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen."

Did Jesus stop being with us in 70AD, at the end of your "world", the OT Covenant?

Would not the "end of the world" be consistent throughout the book of Matthew?

 

[Timtofly]

God IS Invisible…Period….matters not if a Person is a believer or not.

There are MANY people, who DOUBT, who REJECT belief….
HOWEVER…I would “guesstimate” the MAJORITY of the world “NOW” has “heard” About God, About Jesus, About Gods INTENTIONS….and certainly “presume” by the time the LAST Tribulations sent from Heaven….the SAME WILL APPLY with increase of People of the World “having Heard”.

The People “Speaking” in Revelation “hoping” to be “HIDDEN, NOT SEEN BY God”….Are also Displaying…oh, oh, oh, that stuff they HEARD about God Destroying the Earth is Happening….

And IF you pay attention …. Historically random men have “thought” extreme weather or earth eruptions …. MIGHT BE…the beginning of Revelations.
AND….if it were….THEY MISSED THE RAPTURE!

(And on a civil note…IF you are playing hide and seek….do you WANT the one who will be “seeking you”….to SEE you…? SEE where you are hiding? )

Glory to God,
Taken

Is the GWT also invisible? Is the face that people can look upon and die invisible?

How can invisible cause a person harm, if they cannot see God? Who is looking upon whom?

 

[tailgator]

2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Who do you suppose the god of this world is?

There is only one God.

How many God's do you believe in?

 

[tailgator]

The cloud they saw when Jesus ascended in Acts 1:9

"And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight."

Was your cloud available in the first century?

The angel said Jesus would return in like manner. Does that include the same cloud they saw when Jesus left?

No
The cloud which received Jesus out of their sight was not described as departing as a scroll being rolled together.

The cloud John describes in revelation 6 was not available in the first century.
Both it and the earthquake caused by man were not available.

Have you ever seen a cloud depart from earth as a scroll being rolled together?

 

[grafted branch]

Why did Jesus recognize the authority of Rome, if Jesus was currently sitting on a throne over all the earth as King?

Jesus got the Matthew 28:18 power after the cross, not before the cross.

Jesus has always maintained that power and authority even as the Word from the very beginning in Genesis 1. Jesus is the alpha and omega, the beginning and the end.

1 Chronicles 29:11 Thine, O LORD, is the greatness, and the power, and the glory, and the victory, and the majesty: for all that is in the heaven and in the earth is thine; thine is the kingdom, O LORD, and thou art exalted as head above all.

Daniel 2:36 This is the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king. 37 Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory. 38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.

If Jesus has always maintained that power and authority then how could Nebuchadnezzar have been given that power?

Did Jesus stop being with us in 70AD, at the end of your "world", the OT Covenant?

No, the new covenant is everlasting. Jesus stopped allowing people to be both believers and zealous for the law after 70AD. That period of time ended, where the new covenant was valid and in force while the old covenant was allowed to continue even though it was described as being obsolete and growing old.

 

[grafted branch]

There is only one God.

How many God's do you believe in?

Come on, seriously? If there are no other gods then why would it be one of the Ten Commandments?

Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

 

[Timtofly]

Jesus got the Matthew 28:18 power after the cross, not before the cross.


1 Chronicles 29:11 Thine, O LORD, is the greatness, and the power, and the glory, and the victory, and the majesty: for all that is in the heaven and in the earth is thine; thine is the kingdom, O LORD, and thou art exalted as head above all.

Daniel 2:36 This is the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king. 37 Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory. 38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.

If Jesus has always maintained that power and authority then how could Nebuchadnezzar have been given that power?


No, the new covenant is everlasting. Jesus stopped allowing people to be both believers and zealous for the law after 70AD. That period of time ended, where the new covenant was valid and in force while the old covenant was allowed to continue even though it was described as being obsolete and growing old.

Your reasoning is limited to a physical point in time. Jesus always had that authority as Jesus is the alpha and omega, the beginning and the end. Jesus is also the Lamb slain from the foundation of the earth.

Jesus has not physically sat on earth in full authority as King over every nation. Do you limit salvation until after the Cross? Why do you limit power and authority until after the Cross? The Cross was physical. So is Jesus sitting on a throne on earth, also physical.

 

[tailgator]

Come on, seriously? If there are no other gods then why would it be one of the Ten Commandments?

Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

So you believe Satan is God.

I don't believe he is


Isaiah 45:5
I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

 

[Taken]

Is the GWT also invisible? Is the face that people can look upon and die invisible?

How can invisible cause a person harm, if they cannot see God? Who is looking upon whom?

God IS invisible…to Human People….doesn’t mean Human People are invisible to God.

God is Almighty…doesn’t matter if a human can SEE His Power in action.
(Would it be necessary for you to see a BULLET or gun or who pulled the trigger….to know something invisible to you, negatively affected you?)

Many(21) judgements shall be sent down from Heaven upon the whole earth.
IN short…called The Tribulation.
IF you are ON the earth, you are subjected to the Tribulation judgements, less you have the VISIBLE mark on your forehead or hand….(and remember….Gods Mark is reserved FOR your NEW body everlasting body….which you do NOT yet Have.

Then is Jesus’ Reign…1,000 years in His Kingdom…(promised land…and throne…King David’s ‘everlasting’ throne God established in Jerusalem)

Then the GWT….Judgement …. By the JUDGE … who was sent humbled, called Jesus, in a body God prepared that human men could SEE, returned to Heaven, shall return to Earth…for men that are living, that were living humans raised up to be JUDGED.

They don’t Rise to Heaven…The Judgement IS OF the authority of the GWT (Heavenly Throne)….and such authority be EXECUTED ON EARTH, by the JUDGE God authorized….that MEN CAN SEE!

God is ALWAYS LOOKING UPON His Creations.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[grafted branch]

Your reasoning is limited to a physical point in time. Jesus always had that authority as Jesus is the alpha and omega, the beginning and the end. Jesus is also the Lamb slain from the foundation of the earth.

Jesus has not physically sat on earth in full authority as King over every nation. Do you limit salvation until after the Cross? Why do you limit power and authority until after the Cross? The Cross was physical. So is Jesus sitting on a throne on earth, also physical.

Hmmm … so if someone were to say Jesus was crucified in 30AD you would toss that out as being limited to a physical point in time?

No doubt Jesus transcends time as the Lamb slain from the foundation of the earth but as far as that event taking place in time as we know it, it happened in 30AD or perhaps 33AD.



Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Daniel 7:14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

All the above verses take place at a point in time that we humans can recognize as date on the calendar. We may not know the exact date but nevertheless these events did or will occur on a date in time.

Do you limit salvation until after the Cross?

Believers were in Sheol until after the cross. God’s promises are as good as if they already happened, that’s how absolutely sure we can be of them. However people couldn’t realize the fullness of salvation until after the cross. Again, a point in time had to occur first even though He was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the earth.