It is time to give Pretrib a decent burial

[The Light]

Take them one at a time - if you can! Start with Number 1. Is that such a hard ask?

No it's not. In the future, please list the question you want answered as I don't want to look them up. I'll list the first one.
Here is question #1.

1. Show us one Scripture that teaches that "the feasts of God are a picture of the end times"?

Colossians 2
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

 

[WPM]

No it's not. In the future, please list the question you want answered as I don't want to look them up. I'll list the first one.
Here is question #1.

1. Show us one Scripture that teaches that "the feasts of God are a picture of the end times"?

Colossians 2
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Where does Colossians 2:16-17 teach that "the feasts of God are a picture of the end times"? Where?

This is showing us that the OT ceremonial shadow and type pointed us to the substance in Christ. This has nothing to do with Pretrib or end-times.

This text totally negates your claims.

 

[WPM]

Just as I predicted. You never answer anything and yet you will ask a thousand questions and demand an answer. You know I'll take them one at a time, so you go and hide. You are a waste of time.

I ask you one question and you can't answer. Where is your post tribulation rapture in the Bible? LOL you can't find it.

2. Show me New Testament Scripture that teaches that “there are two harvests. The grain harvest and the fruit harvest”?

 

[The Light]

Where does Colossians 2:16-17 teach that "the feasts of God are a picture of the end times"? Where?

This is showing us that the OT ceremonial shadow and type pointed us to the substance in Christ. This has nothing to do with Pretrib or end-times.

This text totally negates your claims.

Maybe a different translation would help.

 

[WPM]

Maybe a different translation would help.

LOL. You have proved nothing apart from you have nothing.

2. Show me New Testament Scripture that teaches that “there are two harvests. The grain harvest and the fruit harvest”?

 

[The Light]

LOL. You have proved nothing apart from you have nothing.

2. Show me New Testament Scripture that teaches that “there are two harvests. The grain harvest and the fruit harvest”?

So what you are saying is that you were unwilling to do any re...........search. I wasn't expecting any level of understanding as you haven't even figured out, He is coming in an hour that you think not even though that is what the scripture says.

 

[WPM]

So what you are saying is that you were unwilling to do any re...........search. I wasn't expecting any level of understanding as you haven't even figured out, He is coming in an hour that you think not even though that is what the scripture says.

We all believe that "He is coming in an hour that you think not even though that is what the scripture says." This does not prove anything! There is nowhere that proves a trib after the rapture. You are yet to show that.

2. Show me New Testament Scripture that teaches that “there are two harvests. The grain harvest and the fruit harvest”?

 

[jeffweeder]

There is a difference between tribulations and The Great Tribulation, which cannot occur until the AOD is set up.

What is the difference? Paul, Peter etc were killed for their steadfast faith, just like many have/will in future tribulations.

The Thessalonians in Paul's day were encouraged to be found worthy and given relief through the Lords return when he appears in a flame of fire dealing out complete vengeance on the ungodly.
Yet you seem to believe you are somehow found worthy to escape such severe persecution. What makes pretribbers so much more special than those first century hero's?

 

[The Light]

We all believe that "He is coming in an hour that you think not even though that is what the scripture says." This does not prove anything! There is nowhere that proves a trib after the rapture. You are yet to show that.

2. Show me New Testament Scripture that teaches that “there are two harvests. The grain harvest and the fruit harvest”?

2 Timothy 3:16

 

[The Light]

What is the difference? Paul, Peter etc were killed for their steadfast faith, just like many have/will in future tribulations.

The Thessalonians in Paul's day were encouraged to be found worthy and given relief through the Lords return when he appears in a flame of fire dealing out complete vengeance on the ungodly.
Yet you seem to believe you are somehow found worthy to escape such severe persecution. What makes pretribbers so much more special than those first century hero's?

God has a plan. We can't change the plan. It is what it is.

Revelation 3
8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

 

[WPM]

2 Timothy 3:16

Lol. We all knew that you had nothing. Why not admit that your doctrine is extra-biblical and enjoys no scriptural support? It is a Jesuit invention.

 

[WPM]

2 Timothy 3:16

That is nought out of two so far Let's try number three. Where is "the grain harvest" mentioned in the New Testament?

 

[The Light]

That is nought out of two so far Let's try number three. Where is "the grain harvest" mentioned in the New Testament?

We are still on number one.

 

[WPM]

We are still on number one.

You have not been able to prove 1, 2 and 3.

 

[jeffweeder]

God has a plan. We can't change the plan. It is what it is.

Glad to hear you say that.
The Thessalonians knew that all too well didn't they?

Revelation 3


10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Matt 24
9 “Then they will hand you over to [endure] tribulation, and will put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.
10 At that time many will be offended and repelled [by their association with Me] and will fall away [from the One whom they should trust] and will betray one another [handing over believers to their persecutors] and will hate one another. 11 Many false prophets will appear and mislead many.

12 Because lawlessness is increased, the love of most people will grow cold. 13 But the one who endures and bears up [under suffering] to the end will be saved.

14 This good news of the kingdom [the gospel] will be preached throughout the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end [of the age] will come.

2Thess 2
2 Now in regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to meet Him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to be quickly unsettled or alarmed either by a [so-called prophetic revelation of a] spirit or a message or a letter [alleged to be] from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has [already] come.
3 Let no one in any way deceive or entrap you, for that day will not come unless the apostasy comes first [that is, the great rebellion, the abandonment of the faith by professed Christians], and the man of lawlessness is revealed,

 

[The Light]

Glad to hear you say that.
The Thessalonians knew that all too well didn't they?

Actually, Paul had to reassure the Thessalonians that the Day of the Lord hadn't come. The Thessalonians were fearful that they were in the Day of the Lord. Paul said no.

Matt 24
9 “Then they will hand you over to [endure] tribulation, and will put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.
10 At that time many will be offended and repelled [by their association with Me] and will fall away [from the One whom they should trust] and will betray one another [handing over believers to their persecutors] and will hate one another. 11 Many false prophets will appear and mislead many.

12 Because lawlessness is increased, the love of most people will grow cold. 13 But the one who endures and bears up [under suffering] to the end will be saved.

14 This good news of the kingdom [the gospel] will be preached throughout the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end [of the age] will come.

2Thess 2
2 Now in regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to meet Him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to be quickly unsettled or alarmed either by a [so-called prophetic revelation of a] spirit or a message or a letter [alleged to be] from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has [already] come.
3 Let no one in any way deceive or entrap you, for that day will not come unless the apostasy comes first [that is, the great rebellion, the abandonment of the faith by professed Christians], and the man of lawlessness is revealed,

I don't believe you realize that the tribulation in Matthew 24 is about the Jews. The Day of the Lord is the one year seventh seal wrath of God. The great tribulation and the wrath of God are not the same thing.

 

[WPM]

We are still on number one.

OK then: please answer it:

1. Show us one Scripture that teaches that "the feasts of God are a picture of the end times"?

 

[jeffweeder]

Actually, Paul had to reassure the Thessalonians that the Day of the Lord hadn't come. The Thessalonians were fearful that they were in the Day of the Lord. Paul said no.


I don't believe you realize that the tribulation in Matthew 24 is about the Jews. The Day of the Lord is the one year seventh seal wrath of God. The great tribulation and the wrath of God are not the same thing.

 

[WPM]

Your argument has one HUGE problem. You might look at verse 31.

Luke 21
31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.

This verse comes BEFORE the verse about heaven and earth passing away so what you say is as usual incorrect. Heaven and earth passing away is not the things He is referring to. ALL THESE THINGS which come to pass are things that are talked about in the prior verses of Matthew 24.

Really? If (as the text teaches) Christians actually "see these things come to pass" on earth - namely the final redemption of our bodies, the removal of the current heavens and earth with its existing bondage of corruption and the introduction of the kingdom of God, then it is actually you that has "one HUGE problem." It forbids your imaginary future Pretrib rapture teaching. After all, this places the conflagration at the one and only coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Read what Jesus said in Luke 21:25-36, not what you have been taught: “there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.”

 

[Keraz]

Don’t people realize what a joke the rapture to heaven theory is? And Satan is delighted at how Christians argue over whether it going to be pre, mid or post!!!!!!!

For all of our lifetimes, this issue has been discussed, argued over, even fought over. Innumerable books, movies, etc, are made about it and still no consensus about when it could happen. There is no Bible verse that says God will take living people to heaven, but those who promote a rapture say; It is there, you just can't see it! Sorry, I can't see it because it isn't there!

There is a huge deception going on here. People have believed false teachers, Paul said they would. 2 Timothy 4:3-4
And God has allowed those wolves to ravage His flock. So most of the Church is not aware of what God really does plan for our future. They are complacent and careless, which means when the hard times come, they won't have the strength of faith to stand firm. Luke 21:34-36

And don't think ‘escape all these things’, means a rapture, because that idea is pure assumption and conflicts with scriptures as above.
It means protection, as many Prophesies attest.