The third way (Arminianism v Calvinism)

[Christian Soldier]

Amen!...I am open to correction as long as it’s the Spirit correcting me....pride is what we all battle with at times, I know I still do.
Only those with God's Spirit can understand the truths revealed by God, including Christ crucified for human sinfulness. Those without God's Spirit are limited to what can be observed and worked out with human reason. God's Spirit makes it possible for us to understand and believe spiritual things.


Full context here Brother...Of said scripture .


Romans 5
New International Version
Peace and Hope

5 Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we[a] have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we boast in the hope of the glory of God. 3 Not only so, but we[c] also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4 perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us.

6 You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7 Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! 10 For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! 11 Not only is this so, but we also boast in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

Death Through Adam, Life Through Christ

12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—

13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.

15 But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16 Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. 17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!

18 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

20 The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21 so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Dear Sister,

I hope you don't think that my comment was directed at you, as it wasn't. I was responding to another member who shared their unbiblical interpretation of a text with me and I attempted to correct them but they rejected the correction and held on to their unbiblical view.

I know you're not a proud person who is unwilling to consider other views, to see if they have any merit and if they are supported by other scriptures. So according to the bible, you are wise because you're willing to look into the scriptures to see if these things are so. But the proud person, hold to their view and they are not willing to consider the possibility that their view many not be supported by the bible.

Everything I've read of you tells me that you're a humble person who's heart is in the right place. God gives grace to the humble and He leaves the proud to their folly. God's Holy Spirit will lead you into all truth, and He will keep you from being deceived, by the doctrine of demons which apostate Churches teach.

 

[Christian Soldier]

I don't really know what people mean by "reformed theology". The way I see things, the reformers got some stuff right, and some wrong. And in answer to the above question...or explanation you seem so perturbed over, is really quite simple. People reject the truth of the gospel because they love darkness rather than light, because their deeds are evil. Why they choose to love evil , who knows. I guess that's just the present human condition. It's in our DNA I suppose. And everyone is unique, there can be no pat answer. To counter the human condition, God, in infinite love and mercy, made Christ, who knew no sin, to be sin for us, so that in Him we might be made the righteousness of God. Led by the Holy Spirit we sense our need, acknowledge our sinfulness, repent of our transgressions, and exercise faith in Jesus as Saviour and Lord, Substitute and Example. This saving faith comes through the divine power of the Word and is the gift of God’s grace. Through Christ we are justified, adopted as God’s sons and daughters, and delivered from the lordship of sin. Through the Spirit we are born again and sanctified; the Spirit renews our minds, writes God’s law of love in our hearts, and we are given the power to live a holy life. Abiding in Him we become partakers of the divine nature and have the assurance of salvation now and in the judgment. (Gen. 3:15; Isa. 45:22; Isa. 53; Jer. 31:31-34; Ezek. 33:11; 36:25-27; Hab. 2:4; Mark 9:23, 24; John 3:3-8, 16; 16:8; Rom. 3:21-26; 8:1-4, 14-17; 5:6-10; 10:17; 12:2; 2 Cor. 5:17-21; Gal. 1:4; 3:13, 14, 26; 4:4-7; Eph. 2:4-10; Col. 1:13, 14; Titus 3:3-7; Heb. 8:7-12; 1 Peter 1:23; 2:21, 22; 2 Peter 1:3, 4; Rev. 13:8.)

Reformed Theology, hold to a different interpretation of the gospel, than all the denominations do. So Reformed Theology is on it's own, todays Reformed Church has nothing in common with the denominations.

The difference between the Reformed Church and the rest, is irreconcilable, because the Reformed Gospel version is radically different to all the rest. I'll try to outline the main differences.

The Reformed gospel interpretation, holds to "Monergistic" gospel view, where "Salvation is wholly the work of the Holy Spirit in regeneration. Mankind possesses no inclination towards the Gospel in his natural state, and needs Divine Grace to be enabled to believe.

All the other Churches and denominations hold to the "Synergistic" gospel view, where; salvation is accomplished as man and God cooperate. Divine Grace and the human will work together for salvation to happen.
This gospel version teaches that, although human nature was seriously effected by the fall, man still has the ability to choose so he is not in a state of total helplessness.

The Reformed Church believes that man is born totally depraved, because of the fall and he is unable of himself to savingly believe the gospel. We believe that our will is in bondage to our evil nature, so we're not free to choose good over evil in the spiritual realm.

It would take too long to go through all points which separate the Reformed Church from the rest. There's a shot summary in the table listed below. It outlines the main points and it presents a very useful overview of the two gospel versions which caused the Church to divide into two separate camps.

http://heavenslight.org/wp-content/...vinism_and_Arminianism_TULIP_Chart_1_2007.pdf

 

[Christian Soldier]

Your male nature is to not be monogamous. So have you been unfaithful to your wife (if you are married). Also the male nature is to be sexually active with a variety of females, married or not. So is that the case with you, are you sinful in that? Or is that a nature that you decide whether to act on? You seem to think that having the tendency to sin, means that you sin. that is not true.

And by the way, Adam was created with a sin nature. That is, he was created with the ability to obey God or not. He chose to disobey. He was not a sinner until he disobeyed. That was true for Adam, that is true for us.

Of course it is true. Adam's sin nature was given him in creation. He was given the ability to choose to obey or not to obey. Thus even though he had a sin nature, he was not a sinner until he disobeyed God. That was a sin and he became a sinner. That is the same with all of us. If that is not true, then it means that God has imputed someone else's trespasses and sins to us. God would not do that. If you think He would, then you have no real understanding of who and what God is.

Not at all. Honestly, I don't know what an Arminian gospel interpretation is. But I am almost positive that it doesn't teach that you can save yourself. And I doubt that it teaches that you can force God to do anything. That sounds like a strawman approach for a terrible rebuttal.

The problem with your view is that you, apparently, do not have a clue about what it means to be dead in trespasses and sin.

Now that is a really silly statement. If you have no trespasses and sins, then how can you be dead in trespasses and sin?

That is speaking about David's mother's sin, not his. And besides if you want to take Psalms 51:5 to be literally a statement of your condition at birth, then you must also take Psalms 51:7 to be literally true as well.

Psa 51:7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean; wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.

A little purging with hyssop and it's all taken care of. But I seriously doubt that you do that. You hold a strict observance to verse 5 and totally ignore verse 7. Really bad hermeneutics and exegesis.

Ecc 12:7 and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

Do you think God gave you a dead spirit?

Again, taking that to be a literal statement is really bad exegesis. I have never heard of any child speaking lies as soon as he was born. But perhaps your children are far advanced of all other's children.

Yes, Adam was the first and he became dead in that sin. And death passed upon you, because you sinned. Your death in trespasses and sins is because you sinned.

1Jn_3:4 Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. If you understood what that means, then you wouldn't think a newborn could sin.


The same many that were made sinners are the same many that will be made righteous. So who are the many made sinners. All agree they are the newborn babies. So then it is the newborn babies that will be made righteous. What they become later is not even being considered in Romans 5:15-19. Paul begins to address that in Romans 5:20 and beyond.

That is true of everyone. If it was true of the king of Tyre, then it is certainly true of everyone else.


Has a newborn baby ever said he had not sinned? Clearly not. So what has that to do with a newborn baby?

Strange that you would bring that one up. You are the guys who claim that Jesus was born righteous because sin is passed through the father. But Job seems to suggest that being born of a woman is the cause. Clearly you are confused.

Your theology has let you down again, and you have failed to interpret the scriptures I quoted.

I don't know who told you that Adam was created with a sin nature, but I do know they were lying to you. Because the bible clearly states that Adam did not have a sin nature at all.

God only made two covenants with mankind, the first was the "covenant of law" and Adam was subject to it. The second "covenant of grace" was made for everyone after Adam. Adam didn't need grace, because there was no sin in him until he sinned, then all of mankind inherited his fallen sin nature. That is evidenced by the fact that everyone is born enslaved to sin and to do only evil continuously.

It's foolish to say, that a baby is not wicked, just because it cant jump up and rip your throat out. You don't realize that it would if it could, why do you think babies drive you mad when they scream at you. They do it because they hate you. They inherited your heart, and you will agree that your heart is wicked above all things, right?. If you don't agree then you don't believe in God, because that's what His inspired Word tells us.

Adam didn't choose to fall and became a slave to sin and Satan, if I remember correctly, he was seduced by his wife, who in turn was seduced by that old Serpent Satan. But don't be fooled, it was all predestined and ordained by God. He knew exactly what Lucifer would do, and He knew what Eve and Adam would do.
Every creature of God's is created with a certain nature, and God knows what each creature would do, before He created them. But that's obviously too deep for your theology at this time, so I won't elaborate any further.

You don't know what your Arminian gospel actually teaches, because if you did, you would repent of it. You can't see that it teaches, the false man centered gospel, which actually teaches that man saves himself apart from God. Again I don't have the time to walk you through all the smoke and mirrors of Arminian theology, sufficed to say that I can expose every one of it's heretical doctrines which you blindly hold to.

If I don't know what it means to be dead in trespasses and sin, just because I believe what the bible says about it. Then why don't you share your version of it. I know you like to put big red crosses over what God said and correct Him with your Arminian opinion, but I would interested to hear about you partially dead state and how a partially dead person can make themselves fully alive, this will be good....

The act of copulating for procreation purposes is not sin, so how did arrive at the conclusion that David mother was sinning while obeying God and multiplying. The bible never said anything about his mother sinning, because there's no need to state the obvious that David inherited his parents sin nature at the point of conception. Just the same as every other person has, since Adam.

God didn't give me a dead spirit, I inherited death from my parents and everyone going back to Adam inherited the same dead spirit. Let me assure you, a dead man can do nothing but stink. I don't know how you have come to believe that spiritually dead men can receive spiritual things. God said we can't but you say we can, so my choice is simple. Jesus said, "without Me, you can do nothing", that little word "NOTHING" means NOTHING!!!!..... but you're trying to suggest that it means you can do the big thing and manufacture faith as a dead man and force God to accept you based on the faith you created yourself.

The King of Tyre is symbolic of Lucifer, he was not a fallen man so there is no coloration between Him and fallen man. So please don't try to force him into your narrative.

I'm sorry I won't be able to address all of your responses to those scriptures I listed, due to time restraints. But I'll just say that Job's parents were both human, so you can't compare his birth to that of Jesus who only had one earthly parent. His incarnation was unique in all of human history, nobody before or since was conceived by one earthly parent.

 

[Bruce-Leiter]

@Christian Soldier wrote on another thread:

"Every Christian hold to one of the two views. The fact that you reject Reformed theology, means that you hold to Arminian theology.

I would be interested to hear about a third option, but I won't hold my breath as nobody has ever found it thus far. The worlds greatest theologians and bible scholars have been searching for this illusive third view for the past 500 years and they haven't found it, but let me guess you have "

I know of a third way, which was described by the Quaker founder George Fox though I do not know who else taught it. I agree with Fox who said based on John 1:9:

9There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. 10He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. 12But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

As every man is enlightened, Calvinism is false (not purely depending on this verse) and God comes to each man at His chosen time, and the man has the chance of not quenching the Holy Spirit and open up the way for more truth to be reveled and that man is saved if he continues seeking the Light.

I have been struck how many people have said that there was a day when they may have become Christian but did not.

Enlightenment in that verse does not mean salvation in all of those people's lives, as the context shows. In verses 16-18, the passage says that people who reject Jesus are going to "perish," a way of saying that they will, sadly, be separated from God forever. Thus, Calvinism is biblical, since it takes into consideration the contexts of passages the best I've seen. God has his plans for the human race but isn't responsible for their sinful self-centered rejection of the Light of the world, while everyone is fully responsible for our whole lives, a biblical mystery that is embraced by Calvinists like me.

 

[marks]

Enlightenment in that verse does not mean salvation in all of those people's lives, as the context shows. In verses 16-18, the passage says that people who reject Jesus are going to "perish," a way of saying that they will, sadly, be separated from God forever. Thus, Calvinism is biblical, since it takes into consideration the contexts of passages the best I've seen. God has his plans for the human race but isn't responsible for their sinful self-centered rejection of the Light of the world, while everyone is fully responsible for our whole lives, a biblical mystery that is embraced by Calvinists like me.

For Calvin type predestination to be true, it makes God's open invitations to come to Him to be disengenuous, which would contradict His holiness. Let God be true and every man a liar.

Much love!

 

[Scott Downey]

For Calvin type predestination to be true, it makes God's open invitations to come to Him to be disengenuous, which would contradict His holiness. Let God be true and every man a liar.

Much love!

I don't think so, God does not prevent people from believing in Christ, devil does that.

Out of all the nations God chooses to save some by His mercy and grace.
He grants them their belief as Philippians says.
If a man refuses to come to Christ, that is because they are following Satan by nature.
All they experience is the lusts of their flesh, unless God makes Himself know to them personally.

1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the [a]course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

 

[Scott Downey]

If God did not save people by mercy and grace for the sake of Christ, then nobody would believe in Christ.

Your belief God granted to you personally which is why you believe.

27 Only let your conduct be worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or am absent, I may hear of your affairs, that you stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel, 28 and not in any way terrified by your adversaries, which is to them a proof of perdition, but [f]to you of salvation, and that from God. 29 For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake, 30 having the same conflict which you saw in me and now hear is in me.

 

[marks]

I don't think so, God does not prevent people from believing in Christ, devil does that.

Out of all the nations God chooses to save some by His mercy and grace.
He grants them their belief as Philippians says.
If a man refuses to come to Christ, that is because they are following Satan by nature.
All they experience is the lusts of their flesh, unless God makes Himself know to them personally.

1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the [a]course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

This is what I'm saying. God says, Come to Me and be saved. But this doctrine says, "but you can't so the invitation is meaningless, just, if He chooses you, you will come to Him."

Jesus said, "Come to me, ALL you . . . "

I believe this was a real invitation to all mankind.

Much love!

 

[Hepzibah]

Enlightenment in that verse does not mean salvation in all of those people's lives, as the context shows. In verses 16-18, the passage says that people who reject Jesus are going to "perish," a way of saying that they will, sadly, be separated from God forever. Thus, Calvinism is biblical, since it takes into consideration the contexts of passages the best I've seen. God has his plans for the human race but isn't responsible for their sinful self-centered rejection of the Light of the world, while everyone is fully responsible for our whole lives, a biblical mystery that is embraced by Calvinists like me.

I agree that enlightening in that context, does not mean salvation. I am not an Arminian as I believe the scriptures say that God chooses the time and place for every man when he is faced with the choice of which way he will go.

He can accept the truth that the Holy Spirit has started to reveal or he can reject it which will lead to a hardening of the heart and make him responsible.

Acts 22:26 tells us that Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian. We cannot use human reasoning to find Christ, so he sounds like he has had some revelation which he rejected. I have heard of others say they had a time when they thought about it.

 

[Ritajanice]

I don't think so, God does not prevent people from believing in Christ, devil does that.

Out of all the nations God chooses to save some by His mercy and grace.
He grants them their belief as Philippians says.
If a man refuses to come to Christ, that is because they are following Satan by nature.
All they experience is the lusts of their flesh, unless God makes Himself know to them personally.

I’m still trying to get my head around this, how can one reject God, if they were already chosen and predestined to be conformed into Jesus image and bear fruit that will last.?

My point is.. how can a person reject God.. they don’t even know him, if they aren’t Born Of God’s seed?

So how can anyone reject, who they don’t know in their spirit, hope that makes sense.

If one is to become Born Again by the Spirit Of God..then by his will, they will, they have no choice, imo...as they were chosen and predestined to.
...becoming Born Again , is a natural event ,that God had planned before the foundation of the world.
Just like Jesus was predestined to become the messiah.

God is also a very clever God..he knows 100% those who will do the will of the Father, he will 100% conform his Born Again children into Jesus image.

The self I’m afraid can’t do that...as it’s by Gods power within us, that is making us to become more and more like Jesus, we take on his character and grow in his character, we also should bear the fruit of the Spirit, who indwells our spirit.

It’s all the work of the Spirit within us..we can do nothing without God’s strength enabling us..so now, I came to that understanding , by divine heart revelation,I know my place in Christ, I’m on the back burner so to speak,

Tis Christ who now rules in my heart.imo.

 

[Ritajanice]

The All below means, all those who are already in Christ...how as a non Born Again ,that I once was, how would I know how to do what is said below?
Without being Born Of God’s seed, His Living seed.
My interpretation of said scripture.

Matthew 11:28-29​

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King James Version​

​

​

28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

 

[Scott Downey]

I’m still trying to get my head around this, how can one reject God, if they were already chosen and predestined to be conformed into Jesus image and bear fruit that will last.?

My point is.. how can a person reject God.. they don’t even know him, if they aren’t Born Of God’s seed?

So how can anyone reject, who they don’t know in their spirit, hope that makes sense.

If one is to become Born Again by the Spirit Of God..then by his will, they will, they have no choice, imo...as they were chosen and predestined to.
...becoming Born Again , is a natural event ,that God had planned before the foundation of the world.
Just like Jesus was predestined to become the messiah.

They don't know God as Christ, true.
But they have some small knowledge of God as the Creator of all things, even if they do not keep Him in their heart.

Romans 1
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who [d]suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is [e]manifest [f]in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and [g]Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like [h]corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.

Romans 2
14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

And their thought excusing them, does not make God forgive their sin, they are like Adam and Eve who excused their behavior blaming their failure on others.

And the Jews rejected God's Holy Spirit continually, even though they had a tremendous testimony from God through His prophets to them, even with signs and wonders they did not believe.

Romans 10
20 But Isaiah is very bold and says:

“I was found by those who did not seek Me;
I was made manifest to those who did not ask for Me.”
21 But to Israel he says:

“All day long I have stretched out My hands
To a disobedient and contrary people.”

Deuteronomy 29
Now Moses called all Israel and said to them: “You have seen all that the Lord did before your eyes in the land of Egypt, to Pharaoh and to all his servants and to all his land— 3 the great trials which your eyes have seen, the signs, and those great wonders. 4 Yet the Lord has not given you a heart to [a]perceive and eyes to see and ears to hear, to this very day.

Acts 7

Israel Resists the Holy Spirit​

51 “You stiff-necked[g] and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you. 52 Which of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? And they killed those who foretold the coming of the Just One, of whom you now have become the betrayers and murderers, 53 who have received the law by the direction of angels and have not kept it.”

 

[Ritajanice]

They don't know God as Christ, true.
But they have some small knowledge of God as the Creator of all things, even if they do not keep Him in their heart.

Ah, now that’s making sense, they have head knowledge?

No heart knowledge, is that right?

 

[Scott Downey]

I think the above idea is that unless one is born again of the Spirit of God, people will not believe and follow Christ.

And also this shows the New Covenant as superior to the OC, where everyone knows God, not just a few people.

As God describes it here
Hebrews 8

A New Covenant​

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins [b]and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

 

[Ritajanice]

I think the above idea is that unless one is born again of the Spirit of God, people will not believe and follow Christ.

Would you say that some follow the Bible, yet have no knowledge of Gods Spirit in their heart.?

 

[Scott Downey]

Would you say that some follow the Bible, yet have no knowledge of Gods Spirit in their heart.?

Maybe some do, but it won't save them. No one can follow God's law wholeheartedly without a single failure.
James 2:10
For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

That is why mercy and grace are what saves us, not keeping the law or doing right.
Lots of scriptures speak to that,
1 Timothy 1
12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord who has enabled me, because He counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry, 13 although I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an [a]insolent man; but I obtained mercy because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 14 And the grace of our Lord was exceedingly abundant, with faith and love which are in Christ Jesus.

 

[Ritajanice]

Maybe some do, but it won't save them. No one can follow God's law wholeheartedly without a single failure.

True, this is where only the Spirit can teach us about our self..,when we become his children/ spirit children.

James 2:10
For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

That is why mercy and grace are what saves us, not keeping the law or doing right.
Lots of scriptures speak to that,
1 Timothy 1
12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord who has enabled me, because He counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry, 13 although I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an [a]insolent man; but I obtained mercy because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 14 And the grace of our Lord was exceedingly abundant, with faith and love which are in Christ Jesus.

Thank you.

 

[Scott Downey]

Philippians 3
Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. For me to write the same things to you is not tedious, but for you it is safe.

2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the mutilation! 3 For we are the circumcision, who worship [a]God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh, 4 though I also might have confidence in the flesh. If anyone else thinks he may have confidence in the flesh, I more so: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; concerning the law, a Pharisee; 6 concerning zeal, persecuting the church; concerning the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

7 But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ. 8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith; 10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, 11 if, by any means, I may attain[b] to the resurrection from the dead.

 

[GodsGrace]

This is what I'm saying. God says, Come to Me and be saved. But this doctrine says, "but you can't so the invitation is meaningless, just, if He chooses you, you will come to Him."

Jesus said, "Come to me, ALL you . . . "

I believe this was a real invitation to all mankind.

Much love!

Marks....I do believe that some calvinists don't even know what calvinists believe.
This makes it a problem to discuss anything with any degree of intelligent talk.

 

[GodsGrace]

Enlightenment in that verse does not mean salvation in all of those people's lives, as the context shows. In verses 16-18, the passage says that people who reject Jesus are going to "perish," a way of saying that they will, sadly, be separated from God forever. Thus, Calvinism is biblical, since it takes into consideration the contexts of passages the best I've seen. God has his plans for the human race but isn't responsible for their sinful self-centered rejection of the Light of the world, while everyone is fully responsible for our whole lives, a biblical mystery that is embraced by Calvinists like me.

Excuse me BL....
Are you reformed or not?
Exactly what does the above have to do with calvinist theology?

HOW is God NOT responsible for man's sin when calvinism teaches that EVERYTHING is predestinated by God?

Now, I know that the Confessions state that ALTHOUGH GOD PREDESTINATED EVERYTHING,,,HE IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR MAN'S SIN....
So God created EVERYTHING except man's sin?
So man has NO FREE WILL....
EXCEPT when is comes to sinning...THEN man has free will?

Very illogical.

Could you please explain that to us here in a way that makes sense since God is a being that created sense?

Thanks.