What sort of death did A&E die in the day they ate thereof?

[St. SteVen]

While posting on this topic I had the thought (revelation?) that the consequence of physical death for eating thereof
made no sense if A&E were going to die physically eventually anyway. I would like to return to that thought. ???

The other thing was all the OTHER previously unspecified consequences that were revealed afterward.
I'll re-post the parody from page two that seemed to address most of it. The idea being that the
previously unspecified consequences would be revealed up front.


--- PARODY ---

One day in the garden. (orchard)

God: On the day that you eat thereof, you will surely die.
Adam: Say what?
God: And you will be put out of the garden.
Adam: For eating from a tree?
God: The ground will produce thorns and thistles for you.
Adam: What's that?
God: By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food.
Adam: Not sure why any of this matters, I will be dead, right?
God: No. Basically, you will work yourself to death.
Adam: These consequences are spiraling out of control.
God: You don't know the half of it.
Adam: There's more?
God: There will be consequences for your wife too.
Adam: Who's that?
God: You will meet her soon. You will think she is awesome at first.
Adam: Awesome at first?
God: She will suffer greatly in childbirth.
Adam: Why?
God: Because she gave you fruit from the tree and you ate it.
Adam: Why would she do that?
God: She was deceived by the serpent.
Adam: Say what? I would never let that happen.
God: You'll stand by and watch, speechless.
Adam: Is that it?
God: No. Once you eat, you will be out of your mind.
Adam: Out of my mind?
God: You'll be sewing leaves together to cover your nakedness.
Adam: Nakedness? That's never been a problem before.
God: Needless to say, eating from the tree is a terrible idea.
Adam: Agreed. Let's get rid of it.
God: Time for your nap. I have someone I want you to meet.


[

 

[St. SteVen]

While posting on this topic I had the thought (revelation?) that the consequence of physical death for eating thereof
made no sense if A&E were going to die physically eventually anyway. I would like to return to that thought. ???

Perhaps this is a back way in to my position that A&E died spiritually that day.
The threat of physical death was meaningless unless they were immortal beings.

However, if the consequences were spiritual death (separation from God) then that fits the plan of salvation better.
Is not our redemption intended to undo the consequences of the Fall? How does that work if the consequence was physical death?

[

 

[Deborah_]

Nonsense. You have absolutely no evidence to suggest such a thing. God, the life-giver, created creatures to die? A system of creation that relies on death in order to survive?

If there was no death, then there was no need for creatures to reproduce. Yet God not only created them with the ability to reproduce, but commanded them to do so. Without death, the earth would very quickly have been overpopulated.

 

[Deborah_]

Where does this idea come from that A&E were eating from the Tree of Life?
Indications are they they were put out of the garden to PREVENT them from eating.

They were allowed to eat from every tree (except for one). So the Tree of life was included in their diet.
There's no indication, anywhere in Scripture, that one only needs to eat from the Tree of Life once in order to live. In the new earth, the tree of life will produce fruit regularly (Revelation 22:2).

 

[St. SteVen]

They were allowed to eat from every tree (except for one). So the Tree of life was included in their diet.
There's no indication, anywhere in Scripture, that one only needs to eat from the Tree of Life once in order to live. In the new earth, the tree of life will produce fruit regularly (Revelation 22:2).

Sounds like proof from the absence of evidence.

[

 

[Deborah_]

Sounds like proof from the absence of evidence.

Not proof, maybe, but pointing out that you can't make an assumption to the contrary.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I posit that they died spiritually that day. They were not immortal/eternal beings that became mortal in that day.
On the other hand, we are immortal beings. An afterlife awaits us all. Many aspects to explore on this.

Genesis 3:22 NIV
And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil.
He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”

Luke 20:37-38 NIV
But in the account of the burning bush, even Moses showed that the dead rise,
for he calls the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’[a]
38 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.”

John 5:24 NIV
“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life
and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

Ephesians 2:1, 4-5 NIV
As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, ...
4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy,
5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—
it is by grace you have been saved.

--- ADDENDUM ---


Perhaps this is a back way in to my position that A&E died spiritually that day.
The threat of physical death was meaningless unless they were immortal beings.

However, if the consequences were spiritual death (separation from God) then that fits the plan of salvation better.
Is not our redemption intended to undo the consequences of the Fall? How does that work if the consequence was physical death?

[

In your concluding remarks you sum up my position, you are filled with Ruah!

 

[Aunty Jane]

Death among the animals is part of the cycle of life that God gave them

Nonsense. You have absolutely no evidence to suggest such a thing. God, the life-giver, created creatures to die? A system of creation that relies on death in order to survive?

Please show us in the Bible where God offered everlasting life to creatures other than human beings? Are animals made in God’s image? Did they sin? Does Jesus sacrifice cover them so that they are redeemed out of their sins and given a resurrection to overcome their death?

On what basis do you make such an assumption that is never mentioned in the Bible?

Animals operate by instinct, so nothing they do is the result of conscious planning….when they are hungry, they kill prey for food. When a female is in season, they mate to reproduce their species. Do you see anything in the behavior of animals that requires them to make a decision based on forethought or conscious and deliberate planning?

Your church's divine plan of evolution and death is no less satanic than Darwin's weak excuse of an explanation for the beginning of life.

Since my brotherhood has no such “divine plan”…….who on earth are you talking about?
Darwin and evolution have nothing to do with what we believe. Don’t assume that because we believe in an old earth, that we accept evolution. The Bible itself does not argue with an old earth….in fact it supports it.

This is nothing but pure ignorance…..at least you could inform yourself about what we believe before you put your foot in your mouth….?

 

[face2face]

Animals operate by instinct, so nothing they do is the result of conscious planning….when they are hungry, they kill prey for food. When a female is in season, they mate to reproduce their species. Do you see anything in the behavior of animals that requires them to make a decision based on forethought or conscious and deliberate planning?

Looks like you are coming to understand God's plan with the Serpent (Carnal Mind).

You are either animal (seed of the serpent) or spiritual (seed of the woman)!

That is the basis for the covenant in Eden.

F2F

 

[Lambano]

In your concluding remarks you sum up my position, you are filled with Ruah!

@St. SteVen, that's probably the nicest thing anyone will say you're full of this week.

("Ruah" or "Ruach" is Hebrew for "spirit".)

 

[St. SteVen]

Not proof, maybe, but pointing out that you can't make an assumption to the contrary.

On the contrary.
It's obvious to me that they did not.
I see evidence that they did not, and none that they did.
That is why I was curious about the basis of your conclusion. Thanks.

Genesis 3:22 NIV
And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil.
He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”

[

 

[St. SteVen]

@St. SteVen, that's probably the nicest thing anyone will say you're full of this week.

("Ruah" or "Ruach" is Hebrew for "spirit".)

Indeed - LOL
Thanks. I had to look it up.
I thought it was an insult at first.

My week is of to a great start.

[

 

[St. SteVen]

Speaking of being "filled with Ruah!"

I woke up in the middle of the night with this scripture in mind.
What sort of life does Christ give to our mortal bodies?
Physical, or spiritual?

Romans 8:11 NIV
And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you,
he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies
because of[a] his Spirit who lives in you.

[

 

[St. SteVen]

Romans 8:11 NIV
And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you,
he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies
because of[a] his Spirit who lives in you.

Here's the context.
Lest I be properly accused of "cherry-picking".

We are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit. (since the Spirit lives in us)
AND... even though our body is subject to death, the Spirit gives life.

Romans 8:9-11 NIV
You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit,
if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ,
they do not belong to Christ.
10 But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin,
the Spirit gives life[a] because of righteousness.
11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you,
he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies
because of[b] his Spirit who lives in you.

[ cc: @Ritajanice

 

[St. SteVen]

Here's an article from GotQuestions.org

What is spiritual death?​

Death is separation. A physical death is the separation of the soul from the body. Spiritual death, which is of greater significance, is the separation of the soul from God. In Genesis 2:17, God tells Adam that in the day he eats of the forbidden fruit he will “surely die.” Adam does fall, but his physical death does not occur immediately; God must have had another type of death in mind—spiritual death. This separation from God is exactly what we see in Genesis 3:8. When Adam and Eve heard the voice of the Lord, they “hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God.” The fellowship had been broken. They were spiritually dead.

A man without Christ is spiritually dead. Paul describes it as “being alienated from the life of God” in Ephesians 4:18. (To be separated from life is the same as being dead.) The natural man, like Adam hiding in the garden, is isolated from God. When we are born again, the spiritual death is reversed. Before salvation, we are dead (spiritually), but Jesus gives us life. “And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,” (Ephesians 2:1 NKJV). “When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins” (Colossians 2:13).

To illustrate, think of Jesus’ raising of Lazarus in John 11. The physically dead Lazarus could do nothing for himself. He was unresponsive to all stimuli, oblivious to all life around him, beyond all help or hope—except for the help of Christ who is “the Resurrection and the Life” (John 11:25). At Christ’s call, Lazarus was filled with life, and he responded accordingly. In the same way, we were spiritually dead, unable to save ourselves, powerless to perceive the life of God—until Jesus called us to Himself. He “quickened” us; “not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy” (Titus 3:5).

The book of Revelation speaks of a “second death,” which is a final (and eternal) separation from God. Only those who have never experienced new life in Christ will partake of the second death (Revelation 2:11; 20:6, 14; 21:8).

Source

[

 

[St. SteVen]

Here's an article from GotQuestions.org

For some strange reason, finding this article makes me feel like I regained my sanity. - LOL

[

 

[Ritajanice]

For some strange reason, finding this article makes me feel like I regained my sanity. - LOL

[

Remember Brother, you are on a path with Christ, he imo, loves the fact that you are seeking his truth out.

 

[St. SteVen]

Remember Brother, you are on a path with Christ, he imo, loves the fact that you are seeking his truth out.

Thanks. That is very encouraging to me.

[

 

[Ritajanice]

Thanks. That is very encouraging to me.

[

I believe those word I spoke to you..were placed on my heart, by God, to speak to you..that’s my opinion.

 

[St. SteVen]

I believe those word I spoke to you..were placed on my heart, by God, to speak to you..that’s my opinion.

I can confirm the effectiveness. It resonated with me. Thanks again.

[