Strength and Honor: Triumphing over Feminism

[VictoryinJesus]

I didn't forget anything but it seems you did. Nowhere in your reply does it address the only 2 questions asked:

1. Nowhere does Scripture say the husband is under his wife's authority.
2. Nowhere does Scripture say the wife is free from iniquity.

You invoke a verse that states all die in Adam. True enough. Yet, it does not exclude the wife or women, generally, from that iniquity. These are all examples of Biblical and divine inequality.

I don’t have to prove it to you. Believe what you want. I’ve tried to share with you what I see is there. To me it is good news. In the end only God knows if men and women are included in the wife. To me it’s evident in there is many members yet One body. We could argue and debate all day. I’ll be honest … reading through every one’s replies here who all agree with you …it makes me want to shrink away and crawl in the bed, cover my head with the covers and bash myself for being as you say ..a liar. As my being greatly in a misunderstanding and not knowing God. As one who has been overcome by feminism. I do read what you say. But the more you speak…the more it’s solidified that I don’t desire to share your perspective. Instead I desire to get away from it because I do think it’s the same perspective of slaves and masters the world has. I’ve known people who are not in the Bible that spread the same Word through the lens of carnality. Which to me is the very thing that blinds people being the god of this world. Stay the course you desire then…only time will tell what fruit it produces. The fruit won’t lie. What is terrifying is all you’ll lead with you, that join in the same. I see a day you’ll regret it this conversation(in the world). Not today, but I do truly believe there will be a day of mourning..it does hurt that you laugh.

 

[Wrangler]

I don’t have to prove it to you. Believe what you want.

It’s not about belief but facts. Desperation to attempt to change word meanings to “support” your world view.

 

[Waiting on him]

 

[Wrangler]

In the end only God knows if men and women are included in the wife.

Appeal to Ignorance. Wrong. Words have meaning.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

It’s not about belief but facts. Desperation to attempt to change word meanings to “support” your world view.

To me it is about Hearing His Voice. If I can’t hear His Voice by now and be able to distinguish between Voice…then I’m truly miserable. To me we all decide and discern what voice to follow. As you suggest I follow the wrong voice. I’m responsible to choose which voice to follow the Voice of the Lord, the One true Shepherd or the voice of a hireling which flees and cares not for the sheep. It’s pretty obvious when it’s His Voice (Imo).

John 10:2-16 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. [3] To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. [4] And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. [5] And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers. [6] This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them. [7] Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. [8] All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. [9] I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. [10] The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. [11] I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. [12] But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep. [13] The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep. [14] I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. [15] As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. [16] And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

 

[Wrangler]

To me it is about Hearing His Voice.

Appeal to Subjectivism. The Voice of God was heard to speak of wives in unequal ways to husbands.

You are hearing ‘wife’ but reading into it both husband and wife - as the only means to support your unbiblical world view. The French have a great saying, Viva La Difference!

Having said that, how have you triumphed over feminism again?

 

[Mink57]

So what's so hard for the feminists to understand that on earth, the man rules over her. I agree that women got the short end of the stick in life. Bearing children must be terrible.

For the same reason why it would be hard for men to understand and accept it if women ruled over them! No one likes to be told what to do -- male or female -- especially by someone who doesn't know what they're talking about. How would you like to be told that instead of being a plumber, you can ONLY push papers across a desk? Or otherwise do a repetitive job, simply because of your gender...and that because of your gender, you're not smart enough to do anything else?

You wouldn't like it. And, you wouldn't accept it.

Why should women?

so the feminists should just accelt life and the station that they have in earthly life, and go with the flow instead of starting wars with the men, lol.

Well, since Patriarchy was only established about 8000 years ago, why didn't MEN simply accept their own station in life and go with the flow before that? The bible wasn't even written then, and yet...Patriarchy took hold LONG before that.

There was no one single event that established Patriarchy, although some theories have been submitted. ONE, is that Patriarchy took root once paternity was realized. And from that point forward, men wanted control over a woman's reproductive capacity. Makes sense, to a point. But ONLY to a point.

It's not Man's rules, it is the Word of God.

Not everyone believes in a God, let alone YOUR God, let alone again, YOUR God the way YOU believe. Patriarchy was established long before the first letter of the Christian Bible was even written, by thousands of years. Where was the "Word of God" then?

Patriarchy was largely cultural. You've referenced the Choctaw and I've referenced the Iroquois. While Christians tried to bring their religion to those tribes (and along with it, Patriarchy), those tribes... didn't buy it. Those tribal men and women DO have their roles, but the tribal women's roles weren't regulated to ONLY activities inside the home, nor did only men decide what those roles would be. Both men and women recognized their contribution to family, community and their society as equally important. Some men in those tribes have wanted to go to war, and the women stepped in and negotiated a peaceful settlement, where the men before them couldn't..., therby saving men from warring and being killed.

 

[Mink57]

Appeal to Ignorance. Wrong. Words have meaning.

They DO have meaning. Doesn't mean that YOUR meaning is the ORIGINAL meaning.

250 years ago, the word "gay" meant "happy". But TODAY it means "homosexual".

Think of how many OTHER words --especially in the bible--have been convoluted to mean something OTHER THAN the original meaning...

...including the word "submit". ..

 

[MA2444]

For the same reason why it would be hard for men to understand and accept it if women ruled over them! No one likes to be told what to do -- male or female -- especially by someone who doesn't know what they're talking about. How would you like to be told that instead of being a plumber, you can ONLY push papers across a desk? Or otherwise do a repetitive job, simply because of your gender...and that because of your gender, you're not smart enough to do anything else?

You wouldn't like it. And, you wouldn't accept it.

Why should women?


Well, since Patriarchy was only established about 8000 years ago, why didn't MEN simply accept their own station in life and go with the flow before that? The bible wasn't even written then, and yet...Patriarchy took hold LONG before that.

There was no one single event that established Patriarchy, although some theories have been submitted. ONE, is that Patriarchy took root once paternity was realized. And from that point forward, men wanted control over a woman's reproductive capacity. Makes sense, to a point. But ONLY to a point.

Not everyone believes in a God, let alone YOUR God, let alone again, YOUR God the way YOU believe. Patriarchy was established long before the first letter of the Christian Bible was even written, by thousands of years. Where was the "Word of God" then?

Patriarchy was largely cultural. You've referenced the Choctaw and I've referenced the Iroquois. While Christians tried to bring their religion to those tribes (and along with it, Patriarchy), those tribes... didn't buy it. Those tribal men and women DO have their roles, but the tribal women's roles weren't regulated to ONLY activities inside the home, nor did only men decide what those roles would be. Both men and women recognized their contribution to family, community and their society as equally important. Some men in those tribes have wanted to go to war, and the women stepped in and negotiated a peaceful settlement, where the men before them couldn't..., therby saving men from warring and being killed.

I guess you could always go live on an Indian reservation? Sounds like you'd like it, lol.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Appeal to Subjectivism

Why do you keep saying “Appeal to subjectivism”?

The Voice of God was heard to speak of wives in unequal ways to husbands.

This is what you are saying ..God’s Voice was heard to speak to wives in unequal ways to husbands.
You hope…

That is what I’ve heard my entire life. I was schooled on how I was the weaker vessel. Yet consider what God told Paul “My strength is made perfect in weakness”. I’ve heard your perspective in my ears for a long time, it’s the same voice every time, always from the same place, “God says to speak to wives in unequal ways to husbands.”
Again…you hope.

It wasn’t until I heard His Voice that is not the voice of “God says to speak to wives in unequal ways to husbands.” Instead it’s
1 Peter 3:7 Likewise, you husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

You are hearing ‘wife’ but reading into it both husband and wife

The body joined to Christ is One Spirit. You’ll have to remove all the times God refers to the adulterous Woman as a body which included men and women. It’s all the way through the word even in the proverbs of the woman that stands on the street corner painting her face and calling, her way leading to death. Even in the Proverbs 31 Woman …she is a “Woman” not “women” … “A Woman” why do you hate the suggestion the Woman that gives birth to Spirit IS New Jerusalem Above…Christ the first fruit…then the others born of God? What is so offensive about New Jerusalem seen as a Woman who is Free?

as the only means to support your unbiblical world view. The French have a great saying, Viva La Difference!

You are so sure yet … Can you tell me how the Woman is saved through childbirth?

Don’t forget John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Having said that, how have you triumphed over feminism again?

How have you triumphed over feminism? Who is your Mother? Who is your Father? Is the body of Christ divided? why are there no men in the body that belongs to Christ? a toe? A foot? Or are the men the head and women the neck, shoulders and on down to the glorious feet that bring good tidings?? The woman in Revelation that, it has been granted unto her to be clothed in the righteousness of the Saints? Does any of this ring a bell? What the Lord has joined…let no man divided. If any man be in Christ …He is a new creature. Where there is no more Jew nor Greek, bond nor free, neither male nor female…yet “God’s Voice was heard to speak to wives in unequal ways to husbands.”

 

[Wynona]

A point to consider:

A wife's submission to her husband is based on the worthiness of Christ, not her husband's actions.

Wives submit because they are trusting God to ultimately be in control through the husband's leadership. This can be trusted even when the husband is not a believer because God is still in control and it is His plan that wives be submissive.

To submit is to trust the Lord. If a wife can't trust God in all His commands, including the one that says submit, she will succomb to fear and the desire to be in control which is not trusting Christ.

 

[MA2444]

A point to consider:

A wife's submission to her husband is based on the worthiness of Christ, not her husband's actions.

Wives submit because they are trusting God to ultimately be in control through the husband's leadership. This can be trusted even when the husband is not a believer because God is still in control and it is His plan that wives be submissive.

To submit is to trust the Lord. If a wife can't trust God in all His commands, including the one that says submit, she will succomb to fear and the desire to be in control which is not trusting Christ.

Apparently, the Choctaw indians dont trust God. Or any Feminist for that matter.

 

[Wynona]

Apparently, the Choctaw indians dont trust God. Or any Feminist for that matter.

Christianity has Lord as master, not self as master. Feminism and Christianity are at odds and don't go together.

 

[Mink57]

Apparently, the Choctaw indians dont trust God. Or any Feminist for that matter.

Oh, they trust God. Just not YOUR God, YOUR way.

Plus, Feminism was inspired by the Native American Indians Matrilineal way of life. Early Colonists tried to use the bible to get the Indian women out of the fields and ONLY into the home. Nope. The Indians didn't buy it.

 

[MA2444]

Christianity has Lord as master, not self as master. Feminism and Christianity are at odds and don't go together.

You have indeed come to the heart of the matter. The feminists are lovers of self, and we do not belong to ourselves! God is doing something and we are a part of it. Constructed for His pleasure. I am a beam in His building that He is building. He was nice enough to give me consciousness, and that came with a free will! Wow! But it doesnt mean that we belong to ourselves.

We're beams and construction materials in His building. We have been delivered to the job site and are stacked waiting to be used. Uh-oh that beam has a knot hole in it we better not use it because it would be visible so pass on that one. Actually, we're prolly only in the tree stage right now. Do you have any knot holes? Better start growing around them to cover them so you might be used in the final construction! We have to grow ourselves up to be an attractive finished part to be very useful to the Lord's construction.

Of course I'm talking about the body of Christ. And He gave us a manual to guide us, the Word of God. She has made herself ready (and repaired her own knot holes!) to be a (profitable servant) to the Lord

 

[MA2444]

Oh, they trust God. Just not YOUR God, YOUR way.

I think I agree with that. My God is not your God, and I'm sorry to hear that.

How can they say they trust God and they dont even trust men? They are liars.

 

[Wynona]

A Word on ownership:

Husband and wife are one flesh according to the Bible. Feminists say without feminism, men would still treat women as owned property. (implying carelessness and self serving abuse)

But taking ownership of a wife's wellbeing, sanctification, and protection is exactly what husband's are commanded to do in Scripture. A husband is a covering.

If men took ownership of their wives lives being apart of them, many women would not be alone because the men would fight for that covenant. The wife belongs to her husband, not as an object of abuse but as the husband's own flesh to be cherished.

I see @MA2444 taking ownership of his ex-wife as a husband ought to. Not because he made her leave him. But because it was his role to guide her and be her covering. Just like Jesus took ownership of humanity's sins and wrongdoings, taking the punishment on Himself.

By attacking patriarchy willy nilly, feminists consistently ruin the beautiful vision of marriage reflecting Christ and the Church.

 

[MA2444]

Oh, they trust God. Just not YOUR God, YOUR way.

That's a huge statement Sister. If you list yourself as a Christian but we have different Gods, then someone is lying, right?

I am a Christian. Trying to be. I believe that Jesus came in the flesh and was killed and that He did rise again on the third day. I also use the word of God as His book of truth for me, to guide me by. The book tells us to, the Lord has has told me to.

You cant not believe the bible is true and find the Lord. I am not going to be the guy who stands in front of Him one day to hear Him ask me, did you read my book to you?
Uh well Lord you see, some people said it wasnt reliable and had many errors in it so I didnt bother...Uhhhh, that would be embarassing. And it was His words about men, women, submission, and life. How to live what to do. What is your station in life?

I'm sorry that you were dealt the short end of the stick in life. But I didnt do it! Men didnt do it! God wrote those words, so your problem is with Him and not me. What would yo say if the Lord asked you those questions one day?
Well Lord men werent being fair to us so I just did what I wanted to and disregarded your word?

That's a chance I wouldnt take. But, to each his own.

 

[Mink57]

I think I agree with that. My God is not your God, and I'm sorry to hear that.

How can they say they trust God and they dont even trust men? They are liars.

Why would they trust men? You think ALL men act according to God? Do you think that ALL "Christian" men behave according to God?

 

[MA2444]

Why would they trust men? You think ALL men act according to God? Do you think that ALL "Christian" men behave according to God?

Wow that's some chip you have on your shoulder there. So what's behind those questions?
Did God make men defective? Does God hate women so he dealt them a bad hand?

What led you to that conclusion? An ephiniy? A series of poor choices on your part? What?

What makes you think women should have no consequences for being stupid?