Not ALL the physically dead are raised at the same time, the dead in Christ rise FIRST.

[Davidpt]

He specified two groups in Revelation 20:4.
(Maybe I can color code them)

Revelation 20:4
And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

I have noticed that myself. And IMO, what you have in red are meaning the martyrs under the altar during the 5th seal, and the ones you have in blue are meaning their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, after the beast ascends out of the pit. IOW, involving the 42 month reign of the beast, the little season meant. Not to be confused with the little season in Revelation 20, though.

 

[Davidpt]

Address my point and the text in question instead of your usual diversion.

You go first. First explain how there can be 2 sets of last days, one before Christ was born, the other after He was born. Meaning the last days recorded in both Isaiah 2 and Ezekiel 38. BTW, when was the last day of the last days pertaining to Ezekiel 38? When did that occur? You argue that there can't be no more days after a last day, then contradict that by insisting that there are more days that follow the last day of the last days pertaining to Ezekiel 38. After all, it's only logical that last days have to have a last day eventually. Which means if Ezekiel 38 was fulfilled before Christ was born, those last days eventually had a last day, otherwise they can't be last days if they don't even have a last day involving them.

 

[WPM]

You go first. First explain how there can be 2 sets of last days, one before Christ was born, the other after He was born. Meaning the last days recorded in both Isaiah 2 and Ezekiel 38. BTW, when was the last day of the last days pertaining to Ezekiel 38? When did that occur? You argue that there can't be no more days after a last day, then contradict that by insisting that there are more days that follow the last day of the last days pertaining to Ezekiel 38. After all, it's only logical that last days have to have a last day eventually. Which means if Ezekiel 38 was fulfilled before Christ was born, those last days eventually had a last day, otherwise they can't be last days if they don't even have a last day involving them.

I have told you before: there can be (in context) the last days of Israel's ascendency as a theocracy, which crumbled with apostasy. Now you.

 

[Davidpt]

Can you NOT understand, they refused the mark of the beast during this time when they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years, and were then martyred for their faith?

Can you not understand that Amil has the beast in the pit the entire thousand years? As if it makes sense that while it is in the pit this is when one can be martyred for their faith by refusing to worship it.

Here's an idea.

Revelation 9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

While these locusts are locked up in the pit, prove that while they are locked up in the pit they are doing what verses 3-6 are involving. The point being, when the beast is in the pit it is no different than when the locusts are in the pit. The pit prevents these locusts from fulfilling verses 3-6 while in the pit. In the same way, when the beast is in the pit it prevents it from fulfilling it's 42 month reign until it is released first. It is during it's 42 month reign when one can worship it or not worship it. Except Amil doesn't have the beast ascending out of the pit until after the thousand years have expired. Yet, you are claiming they are being martyred for refusing to worship it during when they are reigning a thousand years, though Amil has the beast in the pit the entire thousand years.

 

[ewq1938]

Can you not understand that Amil has the beast in the pit the entire thousand years?

Amill also has all of us, saved and not saved and even Jesus being born into and living in the pit which is the whole world to them.

 

[Timtofly]

Ok, since they are martyred before the literal one thousand years, when have they lived and reigned with Christ one thousand years?



Yes, they were martyred for their faith because they kept the faith unto death. John tells us they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. This is why they were martyred. That means they lived and reigned with Christ during this time John writes "a thousand years". Since none lived and reigned with Christ for a or one thousand years how can they be resurrected to mortal life to have lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years? Can you NOT understand, they refused the mark of the beast during this time when they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years, and were then martyred for their faith?

But you have them resurrected to life again to live and reign with Christ for one thousand years after Christ comes again. How does that make any sense? Because according to John they were martyred during this time, John writes a thousand years. Do you see the problem your doctrine imposes on what is written? According to John there is only ONE "a thousand years" period of time, in which they were martyred for their faith. Why do you continue to insist there will be ONE thousand literal years for them to live and reign with Christ when He comes again, since the reason for them being martyred is because they were faithful unto death when "they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years"?

When we look at vs 6 we find more confirmation that "a thousand years" is symbolizing TIME that extends from the first advent of Christ to the sounding of the seventh trumpet. Because John writes of others he calls blessed and holy, have part in the first resurrection, overcome the second death who shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. This proves "a thousand years" is not literally one thousand years to come but equates symbolically to TIME from the first advent of Christ to the last trumpet. It cannot be literally ONE thousand years if those martyred for the faith lived and reigned and died during this period of time, AND there shall be other after them who also "shall reign with him a thousand years."

Take off your darkened lenses of premillennialism and THINK about what John has written. He does NOT write these martyred saints shall be resurrected AGAIN! It says only that after they lived and died with Christ a thousand years, they ARE ALIVE (living souls). John is showing us that death of our body is not death for all who live and reign with Christ before they die. Death of our body cannot take our eternal spiritual life we have through Christ's Spirit in us.

Those in Revelation 20 have not even been beheaded yet. They are not random martyrs from the last 2 a thousand years. These are not the church beheaded for their beliefs. These are not those of Israel beheaded by the church for heresy.

These people are beheaded after the Second Coming has already happened. These people are beheaded after the 7th Trumpet has already started to sound. These people are beheaded instead of receiving the mark. This mark is only a part of the last 42 months leading up to the battle of Armageddon. At Armageddon the only people left on the earth have the mark and have been removed from the Lamb's book of life. Those beheaded did not receive the mark and their names are still in the Lamb's book of life, as those names were placed there, before the foundation of the earth.

The Lamb's book of life cannot even be opened until the 7th Seal is opened. The mark and the opening of the Lamb's book of life both occur after Jesus and the angels are already on the earth. It is impossible to be beheaded until after the 7th Trumpet has sounded.

This mark and the subsequent beheading to avoid the mark can only happen after the final harvest. The final harvest is declared over, at the 7th Trumpet.

There will be no natural death during the millennium. That is why you change Revelation 20 to say what you want it to say. They don't live and die, during those thousand years. They were beheaded in Satan's mystery Babylon prior to Satan himself being bound for a thousand years. And all that happens after the 7th Trumpet started to sound. The third woe is not Jesus being declared King over every nation. That would be the blessing of earth during the Millennium. The third woe is the 42 months Satan is allowed to set up his one world empire called mystery Babylon, by sitting on the glorious throne of Jesus in Jerusalem. When Satan is allowed by God to cause the AOD to appear in the Temple, those beheaded are told to flee the area, so they can make an informed decision to either recieve the mark or become beheaded souls as a testimony of their redemption. Their redemption happens after they are judged and given eternal life. Then they live and reign on current earth for the last millennium called the Day of the Lord. Then after that, they will live on the new earth in the NHNE. They will live outside of the New Jerusalem, because they were never part of the NT church.

Amil will deny these are a specific type of redeemed human. That is why you have to have them spread out over the last 2 millennia. They were not promised to rule and reign for thousands of years, nor a figurative amount of time. They are the only reason Satan gets his 42 months, the third woe. Even though there is a woe placed at the 7th Trumpet, it is to ensure that all have come to repentance, even those who will choose to chop of their heads as a testimony to Jesus as King of the earth.

The AoD only allows for 2 choices: Receive the mark and enjoy the benefits of mystery Babylon, Or forsake one's own rotten flesh for a promise of the fist resurrection into eternal life with a permanent incorruptible physical body, to enjoy the Day of the Lord as the earth's Sabbath after 6,000 years of Adam's punishment of sin and death.

 

[rwb]

Can you not understand that Amil has the beast in the pit the entire thousand years? As if it makes sense that while it is in the pit this is when one can be martyred for their faith by refusing to worship it.

Here's an idea.

Revelation 9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

While these locusts are locked up in the pit, prove that while they are locked up in the pit they are doing what verses 3-6 are involving. The point being, when the beast is in the pit it is no different than when the locusts are in the pit. The pit prevents these locusts from fulfilling verses 3-6 while in the pit. In the same way, when the beast is in the pit it prevents it from fulfilling it's 42 month reign until it is released first. It is during it's 42 month reign when one can worship it or not worship it. Except Amil doesn't have the beast ascending out of the pit until after the thousand years have expired. Yet, you are claiming they are being martyred for refusing to worship it during when they are reigning a thousand years, though Amil has the beast in the pit the entire thousand years.

Who is locked up in the pit? John writes it is Satan, not his demonic hosts, that are MANY! Where does Scripture prove these demonic minions of Satan are also confined to the pit for ONE thousand years? Do you not have understanding of how a spirit being uses the unbelieving MINIONS, upon MINIONS, upon MINIONS to do his bidding? Nowhere in Scripture will you find that the purpose for Satan to be bound is to keep his MINIONS from having power over the unsaved of this earth. Do you also NOTICE how none of the MINIONS of Satan have the power of death? They cannot kill the unsaved they continually torment, rather that can only torment those who have not the seal of God in their foreheads. IOW they no longer have power to hold those who have been saved in fear of bondage to death, because when we are sealed by God, we are set free from fear of death, knowing the life we have through Him is ETERNAL!

We know Satan shall not be loosed until after the thousand years expire. Tell me if you can when was the pit opened for these demonic beings, who received their power from Satan, setting them free to torment mankind only long enough to make man long for death rather than continuing to live in such agony?

Who is the star from heaven, given the key of the bottomless pit and unleashed these demonic minions upon the unsaved of the earth? And why is their power to torment, but not kill limited to such a short amount of time (5 months)?

Revelation 9:1 (KJV) And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

Revelation 1:18 (KJV) I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Revelation 9:11 (KJV) And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

 

[Davidpt]

Who is locked up in the pit? John writes it is Satan, not his demonic hosts, that are MANY! Where does Scripture prove these demonic minions of Satan are also confined to the pit for ONE thousand years?

But we are talking about the beast here not satan. Premils do not agree satan is currently in the pit but do agree the beast is in the pit until it is released. Then once it is released it fulfills it's 42 month reign.

You don't perhaps think satan and the beast are one and the same, do you? Revelation 20:10 alone already proves that can't be case. That verse indicates the beast is already in the LOF before satan too is cast into it.

Obviously, the devil's minions you mentioned above are not bound per these past 2000 years nor do Premils think they are. Remember, Premils do not agree the millennium has been meaning the past 2000 years. Per Premil when the millennium occurs after the 2nd coming, the beast and false prophet are cast into the LOF while satan is cast into the pit. This lines up with what is recorded in Daniel 7:9-12, for one.

Daniel 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.


This is meaning during the 2nd coming after Christ has bodily returned. This is not meaning the Great white throne judgment, for a cpl of reasons. One reason is, not one mention of any humans also being given to the burning flame at the time. In Revelation 20, verses 11-15, there is not one mention of the beast also being at that judgment. He is not there anywhere standing among the dead. That is because he is already in the LOF when verses 11-15 are meaning.

And another reason Daniel 7:9-11 is not involving the GWTJ is because of what verse 12 records---they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

If the GWTJ is meant per verses 9-11, that verse would not be saying their lives are prolonged earlier in history, it would be saying they too were given to the burning flame at the time. That's just common sense, IMO. It would be out of context big time if verses 9-11 are meaning the GWTJ, then we being told that the rest of the beasts , their lives were prolonged thousands of years earlier in history, rather than telling us they too are cast into the LOF at the time. Seriously, if the GWTJ is meant in verses 9-11 who would even care what happened to the rest of the beasts earlier in history? That is relevant to the time of the GWTJ exactly how??????

Obviously then, at least to me anyway, Daniel 7:9-11 is not meaning the GWTJ, it is meaning the beginning of the millennium. Except Amils have the beginning of the millennium meaning 2000 years ago. In order for Daniel 7:9-11 to align with Amil, this means the beast was cast into the LOF 2000 years ago. This means Revelation 19 is meaning 2000 years ago. Obviously, since it can't mean that nor do Amils think it means that, Amils are obviously wrong to place the beginning of the millennium 2000 years ago rather than in the future where it actually fits.

Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Daniel 7:12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

Hmmm...maybe I was wrong after all, lol. Daniel 7:12 indeed makes perfect sense per that context, lol.

Daniel 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

Keeping in mind some interpreters are insisting verses 9-11 are involving verses 11-15 in Revelation 20. Also keeping in mind that verse 12 is undeniably connected with verses 9-11. Therefore, one can't divorce verse 12 from verses 9-11.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Not if we apply 2 Peter 3:8 to the last day. If Christ returns within 2000 years, that would be involving 2 days based on 2 Peter 3:8. And if when He returns it is then the last day of the last days. and that the last day is involving the millennium, I don't see the issue when there is 2 Peter 3:8 we can factor in here.

2 Peter 3:8 has nothing to do with the last day. It has to do with the fact that the Lord exists outside of time and time does not affect Him and no amount of time makes any difference to Him including a day or a thousand years. That's it. That's why it can't be said that He is being slow to return, as 2 Peter 3:9 indicates.

Even a 24 hour day is an era of time, except it doesn't allow enough time for everything that needs to be fulfilled after Christ returns to be fulfilled before 1 Corinthians 15:28 can be fulfilled. Therefore, it seems more reasonable to view the last day of the last days as an era of time involving a thousand years, for one, rather than it only involving an era of time consisting of no more than a literal 24 hours. As if Matthew 19:28, for example, can be fulfilled within a single 24 hour era of time. As if the great white throne judgment can be fulfilled within a single 24 hour era of time.

No, that makes no sense at all. Why do you even think that the judgment will occur within the realm of time? That's ludicrous. That would probably take more than a thousand years to complete. It will occur in the realm of eternity. That's why it says heaven and earth flee from His presence at that point (Rev 20:11). You are wrong in thinking that the judgment takes place during the last day. Instead, it will take place right after Jesus comes on the last day at which point eternity will be ushered in.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Can you not understand that Amil has the beast in the pit the entire thousand years? As if it makes sense that while it is in the pit this is when one can be martyred for their faith by refusing to worship it.

Why do you continually make this argument as if amils would ever give it any credibility? YOU are the one that thinks being in the pit makes whatever is in it incapacitated, not us. You're not going to convince amils of what you're saying when we don't agree that being in the pit makes whatever is in it (the beast, the demonic locusts, Satan) completely incapacitated. We don't take being bound in the pit literally like you do. So, don't try to make an argument from that perspective as if amils could possibly be convinced by such an argument. You're always trying to force your perspective on to amil and then you end up making nothing but straw man arguments instead of addressing what we actually believe and how we see things.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Amill also has all of us, saved and not saved and even Jesus being born into and living in the pit which is the whole world to them.

Nonsense. Why is it that premils misrepresent amils all the time? It's either a case of complete ignorance or a case of purposely doing it because of not having any other way to try to refute amil. Maybe a mix of both. But, it's just ridiculous that we need to put up with this nonsense of being misrepresented all the time by premils. We don't see the pit as being "the whole world" and we do not see the "saved and not saved and even Jesus being born into and living in the pit". What a joke. We don't even see the pit as being literal. Being bound in the bottomless pit is a symbolic representation of something (the beast) or someone (Satan and his angels) being kept from doing certain things, but not literally being kept from doing anything at all.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Can you not understand that Amil has the beast in the pit the entire thousand years? As if it makes sense that while it is in the pit this is when one can be martyred for their faith by refusing to worship it.

We explain Satan being bound in the bottomless pit the same way God explains it. In other words, though Satan was destroyed [katargeo] that he is brought down to IDLENESS or uselessness by the death of Christ that the nations (or Gentiles) can be saved, he is clearly in another sense "not destroyed" FOR THE WORLD and STILL active in the world!

Hebrews 2:14-15

• "Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
• And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage."

Shall we ask God how He says Satan is destroyed, and yet is still active in the world? Yes, we should, and the answer is found by comparing Scripture with Scripture, searching the Bible in the Spirit of obedience. Then we come to understand that Satan was bound and spiritually chained and made idle for the sake of the elect of the nations, but not for the whole world. He cannot harm the elect, but he still goes about seeking whom he may devour of the world which brought tribulation upon the Elect. Selah!

We explain it the same way God explains that iniquity was restrained or "held down" [katecho] that it could not overcome the church, and yet God's word says it was still working, even then in the world. As indeed Paul declared unambiguously in 2nd Thessalonians.

2nd Thessalonians 2:6-7

• "And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
• For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way."

Iniquity in the church was restrained by the victory Christ accomplished in overcoming Satan at the cross, and yet the Apostle Paul under inspiration of God clearly says that Christ was even then letteth (restrained) it, and He would continue to restrain it until He be taken out of the way (midst). So it's not really such a great mystery. Satan was restrained for the sake of the nations, that they not be deceived while Christ built His church with Salvation (Revelation 20).

We explain it the same way God explains how the Beast was, and is not, and yet is (Rev. 17:8 ). None of these things are contradictions! ..they must be Biblically and Spiritually discerned. That is to say, we explain it Biblically by what God has written in His Holy Word. By searching the scriptures to know why God had bound Satan in the first place, and why He will loose him when the reason for his binding has been accomplished.

For example, say...when the testimony of the church is completed. That's it.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

But we are talking about the beast here not satan. Premils do not agree satan is currently in the pit but do agree the beast is in the pit until it is released. Then once it is released it fulfills it's 42 month reign.

You don't perhaps think satan and the beast are one and the same, do you? Revelation 20:10 alone already proves that can't be case. That verse indicates the beast is already in the LOF before satan too is cast into it.

The beast and Satan are not the same, but they do work directly together and rely completely on each other. Satan needs the beast to do what he does and that's why he gives it his power (Revelation 13:4). But, the premil view does not understand that. If the beast is in the pit, as it was when John wrote the book (Revelation 17:8), then so is Satan because the dragon, Satan, needs to use the beast to do what he does.

If you disagree, then tell me of what use is the beast to the dragon, Satan, then? What can Satan do with the beast's help that he can't just do himself without the beast, in your view?

 

[Davidpt]

2 Peter 3:8 has nothing to do with the last day. It has to do with the fact that the Lord exists outside of time and time does not affect Him and no amount of time


No, that makes no sense at all. Why do you even think that the judgment will occur within the realm of time? That's ludicrous. That would probably take more than a thousand years to complete. It will occur in the realm of eternity. That's why it says heaven and earth flee from His presence at that point (Rev 20:11). You are wrong in thinking that the judgment takes place during the last day. Instead, it will take place right after Jesus comes on the last day at which point eternity will be ushered in.

John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

What I have underlined what do you take that to be involving?

As to what the text plainly says, only one of the following options can be correct. Which option do you choose?

A) the same shall judge him in the last day.

B) the same shall not judge him in the last day, He shall judge him outside of the last day, not in the last day, outside the realm of time.


That's a lot of Scripture to manipulate and change in the event one chooses option B) instead.

All I'm trying to do is be honest with the text except you find fault with someone doing that if causes any kind of conflict with your doctrine. Otherwise, you think one should be honest with the text, but not if it causes a conflict with your doctrine, though. In that case, it is not ok to be honest with the text. That's the way you come across anyway. That's the picture it paints.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

What I have underlined what do you take that to be involving?

I see that as being related to the great white throne judgment, which I believe is portrayed in passages like Matthew 25:31-46 as well.

As to what the text plainly says, only one of the following options can be correct. Which option do you choose?

A) the same shall judge him in the last day.

B) the same shall not judge him in the last day, He shall judge him outside of the last day, not in the last day, outside the realm of time.

LOL. I love how you think you can tell me what my options are. You always try to dictate the rules of discussion. Neither of those are accurate in the way you understand things. In my view, at some point on the last day of the history of this earth as we know it, Jesus will return unexpectedly and believers will all be changed and caught up to Him in the air and then He will destroy all of His enemies by way of burning up the entire earth (2 Peter 3:10-12). Right after that eternity is ushered in. The judgment will then occur in the realm of eternity.

Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

How can you think that the judgment will occur in the realm of time when it says that the earth and heaven flee away from His presence when it takes place? Do you not even consider these things? What it means for people to be judged at the last day is that they will be judged shortly after Jesus comes on the last day. That doesn't mean that the judgment occurs during the last day, meaning that it has to occur within the realm of time. That's nonsense. The last day is not a description of the time period during which the judgment takes place, as you think. Imagine Jesus having to judge billions of people in the realm of time. Are you serious? Are you even thinking about this closely at all? Can you even imagine how long that would take and what a burden that would be for Jesus? That is complete nonsense and is not what is going to happen.

All I'm trying to do is be honest with the text except you find fault with someone doing that if causes any kind of conflict with your doctrine.

You supposedly being honest with the text results in extreme nonsense such as the idea of Jesus judging billions of people one by one in the realm of time.

Otherwise, you think one should be honest with the text, but not if it causes a conflict with your doctine, though.

If you want to continue talking to me about this then you need to stop talking about being honest with the text. I am always honest with the text. It's ridiculous for you to act as if someone disagreeing with you means they're not being honest with the text.

In that case, it is no ok to be honest with the text. That's the way it comes across anyway. That's the picture it paints.

You have no idea of what you're talking about. At all.

 

[rwb]

But we are talking about the beast here not satan. Premils do not agree satan is currently in the pit but do agree the beast is in the pit until it is released. Then once it is released it fulfills it's 42 month reign.

And you separate them how exactly?

The beast doesn't ascend out of the bottomless pit until AFTER the testimony of God's witnesses has finished.

Revelation 11:7 (KJV) And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Satan is loosed AFTER the thousand years expire. That's when the seventh trumpet begins to sound indicating the mystery of God finished (witnesses finished their testimony) and that time is no longer, (the thousand years).

Revelation 20:7 (KJV) And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Revelation 10:6-7 (KJV) And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Notice how those deceived by the beast have received his MARK. The mark that indicates the NAME of the beast or number of his name. What is THAT name that marks them for ownership?

Revelation 13:16-17 (KJV) And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

What makes you believe the beast, false prophet and the devil are cast into the lake of fire at different times, rather than in particular order?

Revelation 19:20 (KJV) And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Revelation 20:10 (KJV) And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

 

[Davy]

Another false accuser.

You still do not understand who the "dead" of Rev.20:5 are.

Instead, you only follow what you've been told, and not from what God's Word as written shows.

What concept was Lord Jesus revealing with the following metaphor about the blind scribes and Pharisees?:

Matt 23:27
27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
KJV

Why would Lord Jesus refer to those non-believers like they were as whited tombs that appear beautiful outside, but inside are full of DEAD men's bones?

 

[Davy]

The resurrection of damnation is the second resurrection, those who are of the first resurrection shall never die again in the second death, they are called the blessed and holy so you are mistaken.

No need to quote to me Bible Scripture that you haven't fully understood yet. I know the Scriptures already.

You failed to answer my question, which the Biblical answer is found in 1 Corinthians 15...

1 Cor 15:42-49
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, 'The first man Adam was made a living soul'; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
KJV

BIBLE FACTS by Lord Jesus and Apostle Paul:
1. the resurrection is to a "spiritual body", the "image of the heavenly".
2. as we have borned the image of the earthy (ALL of us, the wicked too), we shall also bear the image of the heaveny, a "spiritual body".
3. Lord Jesus showed in John 5:28-29 that the wicked will ALSO be RESURRECTED at His coming, NOT after His "thousand years" reign.


Since you are obviously more interesting in following men's doctrines instead of studying with asking God's help, I'm done trying to help you understand.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

I'm done trying to help you understand.

I don’t need any man’s help.

1 John 2:27
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.