Not ALL the physically dead are raised at the same time, the dead in Christ rise FIRST.

[rwb]

The LORD is made this very CLEAR in Revelation = they are martyred BEFORE the literal 1,000 Years

Ok, since they are martyred before the literal one thousand years, when have they lived and reigned with Christ one thousand years?

Scripture is specific on this in Revelation = those who refused the Mark of the Beast were martyred

Yes, they were martyred for their faith because they kept the faith unto death. John tells us they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. This is why they were martyred. That means they lived and reigned with Christ during this time John writes "a thousand years". Since none lived and reigned with Christ for a or one thousand years how can they be resurrected to mortal life to have lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years? Can you NOT understand, they refused the mark of the beast during this time when they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years, and were then martyred for their faith?

But you have them resurrected to life again to live and reign with Christ for one thousand years after Christ comes again. How does that make any sense? Because according to John they were martyred during this time, John writes a thousand years. Do you see the problem your doctrine imposes on what is written? According to John there is only ONE "a thousand years" period of time, in which they were martyred for their faith. Why do you continue to insist there will be ONE thousand literal years for them to live and reign with Christ when He comes again, since the reason for them being martyred is because they were faithful unto death when "they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years"?

When we look at vs 6 we find more confirmation that "a thousand years" is symbolizing TIME that extends from the first advent of Christ to the sounding of the seventh trumpet. Because John writes of others he calls blessed and holy, have part in the first resurrection, overcome the second death who shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. This proves "a thousand years" is not literally one thousand years to come but equates symbolically to TIME from the first advent of Christ to the last trumpet. It cannot be literally ONE thousand years if those martyred for the faith lived and reigned and died during this period of time, AND there shall be other after them who also "shall reign with him a thousand years."

Take off your darkened lenses of premillennialism and THINK about what John has written. He does NOT write these martyred saints shall be resurrected AGAIN! It says only that after they lived and died with Christ a thousand years, they ARE ALIVE (living souls). John is showing us that death of our body is not death for all who live and reign with Christ before they die. Death of our body cannot take our eternal spiritual life we have through Christ's Spirit in us.

 

[rwb]

100% FALSE - adding to God's words what HE never said = Read Proverbs 30:5-6

If my words are false, then John is false. For it is he who writes, "they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years." You have admitted they are martyred BEFORE a thousand years. How can they have lived and reigned a thousand years and been martyred, then resurrected to live and reign with Christ one thousand years?

Proverbs 30:5-6 (KJV) Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

Why do you add your unbiblical opinion to the text, teaching these martyred saints shall be resurrected AGAIN, when in vs 4 John makes no mention of a RESURRECTION nor does he write AGAIN. You add both of these to force your unbiblical doctrine into the text.

Here is the verse, please point out where John writes these beheaded souls were RESURRECTED AGAIN to physical immortal life, then they will live and reign with Christ for ONE thousand years???

Revelation 20:4 (KJV) And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

 

[WPM]

Genesis , Daniel , Revelation

You were given the scriptures many times - why are you diverting away from the TRUTH???

NON-Corroborating scripture = "beast reigns with 10 kings for 1 hour"

1. Where in Genesis does it teach that "God had originally intended for Adam to live" for "1,000 LITERAL Years"?
2. Where in Daniel does it teach that "God had originally intended for Adam to live" for "1,000 LITERAL Years"?
3. Where in Revelation does it teach that "God had originally intended for Adam to live" for "1,000 LITERAL Years"?

 

[David in NJ]

If my words are false, then John is false. For it is he who writes, "they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years." You have admitted they are martyred BEFORE a thousand years. How can they have lived and reigned a thousand years and been martyred, then resurrected to live and reign with Christ one thousand years?

Proverbs 30:5-6 (KJV) Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

Why do you add your unbiblical opinion to the text, teaching these martyred saints shall be resurrected AGAIN, when in vs 4 John makes no mention of a RESURRECTION nor does he write AGAIN. You add both of these to force your unbiblical doctrine into the text.

Here is the verse, please point out where John writes these beheaded souls were RESURRECTED AGAIN to physical immortal life, then they will live and reign with Christ for ONE thousand years???

Revelation 20:4 (KJV) And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

How can they have lived and reigned a thousand years and been martyred, then resurrected to live and reign with Christ one thousand years?

God shortened the length of days for a man to 120 literal years = Genesis 6:3
The flesh and blood martyrs on earth never exceeded 120 years.
The martyrs were killed by the Beast/Antichrist for refusing the Mark.
God Resurrected the martyrs as HE Promised and they Lived again for 1,000 Years.

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them.
Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands.
And they lived(Resurrection) and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished.
This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection.
Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years

Genesis - Adam lived for 930 Literal Years but died because of sin.

SHALOM and Good Night Brother - for i am tired

 

[ewq1938]

God shortened the length of days for a man to 120 literal years = Genesis 6:3

Not these men:

People born after the flood

Arphaxad 438 years
Salah 433 years
Eber 464 years
Peleg 239 years
Reu 239 years
Serug 230 years
Nahor 148 years
Terah 205 years
Abraha 175 years
Isaac 180 years
Jacob 147 years

 

[CadyandZoe]

Question of the DAY

Why did the LORD only specify those who were beheaded in Revelation ch20?

He specified two groups in Revelation 20:4.
(Maybe I can color code them)

Revelation 20:4
And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

OK

Do you think God is making groupings of who is part of the first resurrection as opposed to who is in Christ?

The first resurrection will include all of those in Christ. The first subgroup represents those who died preaching the gospel. The other subgroup represents the rest of Christ's followers who maintained loyalty to him.

What are your thoughts?

 

[David in NJ]

Not these men:

People born after the flood

Arphaxad 438 years
Salah 433 years
Eber 464 years
Peleg 239 years
Reu 239 years
Serug 230 years
Nahor 148 years
Terah 205 years
Abraha 175 years
Isaac 180 years
Jacob 147 years

Ah, yes - after the flood
Now, what are we to gathered from this when God said he shortened the days to 120 years?

Where are you with Daniel 9:24 ???

 

[David in NJ]

He specified two groups in Revelation 20:4.
(Maybe I can color code them)

Revelation 20:4
And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

The first resurrection will include all of those in Christ. The first subgroup represents those who died preaching the gospel. The other subgroup represents the rest of Christ's followers who maintained loyalty to him.

What are your thoughts?

The first resurrection will include all of those in Christ.

ABSOLUTE TRUTH

Never let anyone persuade you otherwise, for from there a false doctrine will rise from the depths of hell.

God expresses the Group who BEST represent two things:
Those directly from the time period of the Beast and His Mark and are martyred.
Those who follow JESUS, just as the martrys, and keep His Commandments = SAME as the martyrs

The Martrys are explicitly mentioned for these Two Main Reasons:

No one shows more FAITH then the individual who will not deny the Name of JESUS when facing Death for His Name.
The rise of the Beast/Antichrist is the LAST Great Temptation on this earth.

So Great will be the Temptation and Deception, that we now have pastor John McArthur preaching that a christian or unsaved person can receive the Mark and still be forgiven = this is blaspheming the Holy Spirit.
The Temptation is already here, now and is growing towards the point where God will fulfill what HE never wanted to do.

Let no one deceive you in any way, for it will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness—the son of destruction—is revealed. 4He will oppose and exalt himself above every so-called god or object of worship. So he will seat himself in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.

5Do you not remember that I told you these things while I was still with you? 6And you know what is now restraining him, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but the one who now restrains it will continue until he is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will slay with the breath of His mouth and annihilate by the majesty of His arrival.

9The coming of the lawless one will be accompanied by the working of Satan, with every kind of power, sign, and false wonder, 10and with every wicked deception directed against those who are perishing, because they refused the love of the truth that would have saved them. For this reason God will send them a powerful delusion so that they believe the lie, in order that judgment may come upon all who have disbelieved the truth and delighted in wickedness.

If John McArthur and others do not repent, they may end up on the wrong side of eternity, for God is not to be mocked.

 

[ewq1938]

Ah, yes - after the flood
Now, what are we to gathered from this when God said he shortened the days to 120 years?

It was a reference to when the flood would happen, in 120 years.

Where are you with Daniel 9:24 ???

IMO it has no place within modern (NT) prophecy.

 

[David in NJ]

It was a reference to when the flood would happen, in 120 years.




IMO it has no place within modern (NT) prophecy.

What do you mean by "modern prophecy" ? - ty

 

[David in NJ]

It was a reference to when the flood would happen, in 120 years.




IMO it has no place within modern (NT) prophecy.

OK, i missed the (NT)

Next question: By this i assume you mean it is in the Future or other???

Forgive me, for i just need a little more info lest i jump to conclusions that you did not say.

 

[Gottservant]

I think it is interesting to shift perspective a little: the dead in Christ will always rise first (from now to the end of life).

It is not just a strength to know that the dead in Christ have been blessed, but that they will always be blessed and a blessing because of that.

 

[David in NJ]

I think it is interesting to shift perspective a little: the dead in Christ will always rise first (from now to the end of life).

It is not just a strength to know that the dead in Christ have been blessed, but that they will always be blessed and a blessing because of that.

i like that Perspective

 

[ewq1938]

OK, i missed the (NT)

Next question: By this i assume you mean it is in the Future or other???

Forgive me, for i just need a little more info lest i jump to conclusions that you did not say.

IMO the end of the first covenant affected most of the OT prophecies. There is nothing in the NT about 70 weeks and an end of sin and to bring in everlasting righteousness.

 

[David in NJ]

IMO the end of the first covenant affected most of the OT prophecies. There is nothing in the NT about 70 weeks and an end of sin and to bring in everlasting righteousness.

Take your time

The 70th week is ongoing as the first 3.5 years have been fulfilled in CHRIST's Ministry of Salvation as stated in Daniel 9:24
and CONFIRMED in the Gospel and the many scriptures in the NT writings.

“Seventy weeks are determined = It is impossible for this to be in the Future and the Gospel confirms this.
For your people and for your holy city, = Gospel = HE came to His own = the Jewish people and Jerusalem where HE died & Rose
To finish the transgression, = Gospel = John 19:28-30
To make an end of sins, = Gospel = John 3:10-17 = Luke 22:20 = Hebrews 9:28 , Hebrews 10:16-18 , 2 Corinthians 5:21
To bring in everlasting righteousness, = Gospel = Matt 6:33 , Rom 10:6-13 , 2 Peter 1:1 , Rom 5:21 , 2 Cor 5:21 and More
To seal up vision and prophecy, = Book of Revelation COMPLETES ALL Vision & Prophecy
And to anoint the Most Holy. = FUFILLED when CHRIST Ascended = Hebrews 9:11-15

To finish the transgression = After this, Jesus, knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the Scripture might be fulfilled, said, “I thirst!” Now a vessel full of sour wine was sitting there; and they filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on hyssop, and put it to His mouth. So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.

To make an end of sins, = Romans 8:3
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

To bring in everlasting righteousness, Romans 3:25
But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets(Daniel (9:24) even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
whom God set forth as a atonement by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness,

To seal up vision and prophecy, = Book of Revelation COMPLETES ALL Vision & Prophecy

And to anoint the Most Holy = FUFILLED when CHRIST Ascended = Hebrews 9:11-15
But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation. Not with the blood of goats and calves,
but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.

There is no Holy Place on earth for Daniel 9:24 to be fulfilled anymore in the future.
The earthly temple was only a FORESHADOW of that which is Eternal in HEAVEN = Hebrews

Hebrews chapter 10
And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins.
But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool.
For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified = Daniel 9:24

But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before,

“This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,” then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”
Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.

It is IMPOSSIBLE for a Jew or Gentile to be SAVED had not CHRIST fulfilled Daniel 9:24

Furthermore the OT Prophet Jeremiah CONFIRMED Daniel 9:24

 

[WPM]

If John McArthur and others do not repent, they may end up on the wrong side of eternity, for God is not to be mocked.

What are you talking about?

 

[Davidpt]

Let us take the phrase “a thousand years.” There is a big difference between “a thousand years” (which Scriptures states) and "one thousand years" (as you keep stating). The number 'one' is not included in the narrative, you must insert it in. Rather it is the more general thousand.

With that in mind as an argument, what about the following?

Isaiah 30:17 One thousand shall flee at the rebuke of one; at the rebuke of five shall ye flee: till ye be left as a beacon upon the top of a mountain, and as an ensign on an hill.

Using your logic that must mean this one thousand is a literal thousand since it actually says one thousand rather than a thousand. Even Premils wouldn't take this one thousand here to literally mean 1000, but you apparently must, otherwise your arguments are not remaining consistent throughout, and that you would be contradicting what you are arguing, that, had Revelation 20 said one thousand rather than a thousand, in that case it likely would mean a literal thousand, is what you appear to be implying. Prove it via Isaiah 30:17 then.

 

[Davidpt]

What do you mean if you're wrong? You are wrong on Isaiah 2. You have "the last days" (plural) that are happening now that culminate in "the last day" (singular) and then you invent your own you "last days" after the second coming to support your mistaken idea of a future millennium. That is absurd and ridiculous.

Not if we apply 2 Peter 3:8 to the last day. If Christ returns within 2000 years, that would be involving 2 days based on 2 Peter 3:8. And if when He returns it is then the last day of the last days. and that the last day is involving the millennium, I don't see the issue when there is 2 Peter 3:8 we can factor in here. Even a 24 hour day is an era of time, except it doesn't allow enough time for everything that needs to be fulfilled after Christ returns to be fulfilled before 1 Corinthians 15:28 can be fulfilled. Therefore, it seems more reasonable to view the last day of the last days as an era of time involving a thousand years, for one, rather than it only involving an era of time consisting of no more than a literal 24 hours. As if Matthew 19:28, for example, can be fulfilled within a single 24 hour era of time. As if the great white throne judgment can be fulfilled within a single 24 hour era of time.

 

[WPM]

With that in mind as an argument, what about the following?

Isaiah 30:17 One thousand shall flee at the rebuke of one; at the rebuke of five shall ye flee: till ye be left as a beacon upon the top of a mountain, and as an ensign on an hill.

Using your logic that must mean this one thousand is a literal thousand since it actually says one thousand rather than a thousand. Even Premils wouldn't take this one thousand here to literally mean 1000, but you apparently must, otherwise your arguments are not remaining consistent throughout, and that you would be contradicting what you are arguing, that, had Revelation 20 said one thousand rather than a thousand, in that case it likely would mean a literal thousand, is what you appear to be implying. Prove it via Isaiah 30:17 then.

No. A thousand or one thousand carries a figurative import. I was exposing a fallacy that Premils overlook.

 

[WPM]

Not if we apply 2 Peter 3:8 to the last day. If Christ returns within 2000 years, that would be involving 2 days based on 2 Peter 3:8. And if when He returns it is then the last day of the last days. and that the last day is involving the millennium, I don't see the issue when there is 2 Peter 3:8 we can factor in here. Even a 24 hour day is an era of time, except it doesn't allow enough time for everything that needs to be fulfilled after Christ returns to be fulfilled before 1 Corinthians 15:28 can be fulfilled. Therefore, it seems more reasonable to view the last day of the last days as an era of time involving a thousand years, for one, rather than it only involving an era of time consisting of no more than a literal 24 hours. As if Matthew 19:28, for example, can be fulfilled within a single 24 hour era of time. As if the great white throne judgment can be fulfilled within a single 24 hour era of time.

Address my point and the text in question instead of your usual diversion.