The difference between The Resurrection and the first resurrection.

[Spiritual Israelite]

Concerning the Resurrection of the Dead for BOTH Here/Now/Today and for His Second Coming which HE brings Bodily Resurrection: Everything was addressed in Post 233 and there does not exist any opposing scriptures to those that were quoted.

Dead Once LIVE TWICE
Live once DEAD Twice

SHALOM

Nowhere in post 233 did you even mention John 5:24-25 or John 5:28-29 which is what I was asking you about. So, let me ask you again. Do you believe that John 5:28-29 is about the bodily resurrection of the dead or not? We agree that John 5:24-25 is related to being born again and going from spiritually dead in sins to spiritually alive in Christ. But, what about John 5:28-29? How exactly do you interpret that passage?

 

[David in NJ]

I agree. Revelation 20:6 tells us: "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

This resurrection has to be spiritual in Christ. It is in the present tense, thus supporting the Amil interpretation.

Are not ALL things FIRST Spiritual in CHRIST followed by the Spiritual of Bodily Resurrection

Example:
1st - John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." = SPIRIT
2nd(a) - John 1:14 - And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
2nd(b) - From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day.
2nd(c) - Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.

Lets SEE if this corroborates with Revelation

1st - Rev 1:9 - BORN- AGAIN by the SPIRIT for suffering Righteousness in the Kingdom of CHRIST
"I, John, your brother and companion in the suffering and kingdom and patient endurance that are ours in Jesus, was on the island of Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus."

2nd - Rev 20:4-6 Carnal Body now dead is RESURRECTED unto Immortal Bodies for their FAITH unto death in CHRIST
And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished.
This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection.
Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

Was John SAVED/Born-Again and Part of the Eternal Kingdom of CRIST while yet in his physical body of death? = YES

Will John and the Martyrs be Resurrected in NEW GLORIFIED ETERNAL Bodies NEVER to suffer the Second Death = YES

 

[David in NJ]

Nowhere in post 233 did you even mention John 5:24-25 or John 5:28-29 which is what I was asking you about. So, let me ask you again. Do you believe that John 5:28-29 is about the bodily resurrection of the dead or not? We agree that John 5:24-25 is related to being born again and going from spiritually dead in sins to spiritually alive in Christ. But, what about John 5:28-29? How exactly do you interpret that passage?

SEE Post 242

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

SEE Post 242

Again, I see no mention of John 5:24-25 or John 5:28-29 there just as there wasn't in post 233. So that I don't have to guess, can you please just answer my simple question? Do you believe that John 5:28-29 is about the bodily resurrection of the dead or not?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Are not ALL things FIRST Spiritual in CHRIST followed by the Spiritual of Bodily Resurrection

Example:
1st - John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." = SPIRIT
2nd(a) - John 1:14 - And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
2nd(b) - From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day.
2nd(c) - Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.

Lets SEE if this corroborates with Revelation

1st - Rev 1:9 - BORN- AGAIN by the SPIRIT for suffering Righteousness in the Kingdom of CHRIST
"I, John, your brother and companion in the suffering and kingdom and patient endurance that are ours in Jesus, was on the island of Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus."

2nd - Rev 20:4-6 Carnal Body now dead is RESURRECTED unto Immortal Bodies for their FAITH unto death in CHRIST
And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished.
This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection.
Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

Was John SAVED/Born-Again and Part of the Eternal Kingdom of CRIST while yet in his physical body of death? = YES

Will John and the Martyrs be Resurrected in NEW GLORIFIED ETERNAL Bodies NEVER to suffer the Second Death = YES

At what point does it become true that the second death no longer has power over someone? Wouldn't that be at the point in time that someone has part in the first resurrection since it says "Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power"? I think so. So, when does that happen in your opinion?

 

[David in NJ]

Again, I see no mention of John 5:24-25 or John 5:28-29 there just as there wasn't in post 233. So that I don't have to guess, can you please just answer my simple question? Do you believe that John 5:28-29 is about the bodily resurrection of the dead or not?

Please allow for a delay
i MUST replace the rear rotors and pads on my sons car

SHALOM

 

[Davidpt]

No matter if one is pretrib rapture or postrib rapture, the "resurrections" are the same.
1st= the redeemed
2nd= into the Lof.
Jesus is the firstfruits OF THE FIRST RESURRECTION.
Main harvest follows firstfruits EVERY TIME.
Jesus resurrected.
All of paradise went to heaven resurrected.
Then those in christ. ONLY the dead in christ resurrected pretrib.
Then another resurrection DURING THE TRIB.
REV 20 is REFERRING BACK TO all 3 "first resurrections"

IMO, the first resurrection is a type of resurrection. It is a resurrection only involving the saved righteous. The 2nd resurrection is also a type of resurrection. It is a resurrection only involving the unsaved lost. The first resurrection began with Christ's resurrection. Even if there were a thousand resurrection events taking place at different times, involving the saved righteous, it would still be the first resurrection every single time. It certainly wouldn't be the 2nd resurrection involving only the unsaved lost rising during it.

The first resurrection is the first in more ways than just one. It is first because it began first with Christ's resurrection. It is first because no one per the 2nd resurrection rises before all of those per the first resurrection rise first. It is first because the dead in Christ rise first, meaning they rise before anyone pertaining to the 2nd resurrection rise. It is first because there are only two types of resurrection events, the first involving only the saved righteous, the second only involving the unsaved lost. And that 1 always comes before 2.

 

[David in NJ]

At what point does it become true that the second death no longer has power over someone? Wouldn't that be at the point in time that someone has part in the first resurrection since it says "Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power"? I think so. So, when does that happen in your opinion?

BEFORE we can even get to the First Resurrection what MUST take place in a walking/talking dead man?

John 3: 1-6
A.) Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

John 11:25
B.) Jesus said to her, “I am the Resurrection and the Life(Eternal Life)

You MUST FIRST pass thru the DOOR or you will be no more...........

C.) JESUS says: I am the Door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to separate being Born-Again by the Spirit from the First Resurrection in CHRIST

 

[WPM]

“Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.

Exactly. What about the other physical resurrection you keep avoiding?

 

[WPM]

IMO, the first resurrection is a type of resurrection. It is a resurrection only involving the saved righteous. The 2nd resurrection is also a type of resurrection. It is a resurrection only involving the unsaved lost. The first resurrection began with Christ's resurrection. Even if there were a thousand resurrection events taking place at different times, involving the saved righteous, it would still be the first resurrection every single time. It certainly wouldn't be the 2nd resurrection involving only the unsaved lost rising during it.

The first resurrection is the first in more ways than just one. It is first because it began first with Christ's resurrection. It is first because no one per the 2nd resurrection rises before all of those per the first resurrection rise first. It is first because the dead in Christ rise first, meaning they rise before anyone pertaining to the 2nd resurrection rise. It is first because there are only two types of resurrection events, the first involving only the saved righteous, the second only involving the unsaved lost. And that 1 always comes before 2.

When it comes to the meaning of “the second death” most evangelicals are in solid agreement that this is talking about eternal damnation. But what many Premillennialists do not consider is that if believers have not yet had their part in the first resurrection, and if, as Scripture teaches, it is the actual means by which we overcome the second death, and it is still future, then the second death still has power over believers in this life. Spiritual Israelite alluded to this above. They have therefore not already experienced eternal life in which they shall never die, and overcome eternal death, as Jesus and the New Testament writers continually promised us. It negates numerous scriptural passages. This is what Premillennialism produces.

There is another major contradiction in Premillennialism that many fail to consider, and that is, if the first resurrection is the actual means by which we overcome the second death, and if it is yet future, and it relates to the physical resurrection of the dead in Christ, this means that the living in Christ do not partake in the only means by which we conquer the second death at the second coming. After all, they do not die, they are therefore not resurrected. They are changed in a moment and caught up to be with Jesus in the air.

Only the Amillennialist explanation makes sense, fits in with numerous other Scripture, and correlates with the consistent divine record. Only it embraces all the elect. That is us having our part in Christ’s first resurrection. When we get saved, all the redeemed of all times (without exception) partake in this glorious resurrection. This therefore gives them a current victory (as repeatedly taught in Scripture) over eternal punishment.

Basically, this is not simply a future hope, it is a present reality for the redeemed.

 

[Davidpt]

BEFORE we can even get to the First Resurrection what MUST take place in a walking/talking dead man?

John 3: 1-6
A.) Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

John 11:25
B.) Jesus said to her, “I am the Resurrection and the Life(Eternal Life)

You MUST FIRST pass thru the DOOR or you will be no more...........

C.) JESUS says: I am the Door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to separate being Born-Again by the Spirit from the First Resurrection in CHRIST

As to B), though. The context pertains to someone literally dead at the time. And the fact everyone dies, regardless, that means when Jesus said anyone that believes in Him shall never die, He wasn't applying the never die part to the here and now. The believing in Him obviously applies to the here and now. But the never shall die part certainly isn't. He is simply meaning when He raises the saved in the last day, they will never die anymore after that. They will be alive for forever instead. He is basically meaning the following.

Luke 20:35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
36 Neither can they die any more : for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

Shall never die equals neither can they die any more. But not before they are bodily raised first, but after they are bodily raised. In Revelation 20:4 when they begin living and reigning with Christ a thousand years, this is meaning when Luke 20:35-36 is meaning, and is meaning what Luke 20:35-36 is meaning, and not what Amils have Revelation 20:4 meaning instead.

 

[tailgator]

What is the second death and what is the biblical means by which we escape it?

I just posted it.
If your immortal ,you don't die.



Word: aqanasia

Pronounce: ath-an-as-ee'-ah

Strongs Number: G110

Orig: from a compound of 1 (as a negative particle) and 2288; deathlessness:--immortality. G1

Use: TDNT-3:22,312 Noun Feminine

Heb Strong:

1. 1) undying, immortality, everlasting

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

BEFORE we can even get to the First Resurrection what MUST take place in a walking/talking dead man?

John 3: 1-6
A.) Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

John 11:25
B.) Jesus said to her, “I am the Resurrection and the Life(Eternal Life)

You MUST FIRST pass thru the DOOR or you will be no more...........

C.) JESUS says: I am the Door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to separate being Born-Again by the Spirit from the First Resurrection in CHRIST

Why are you telling me this as if I said otherwise or as if I didn't already know this? Why is it that you can't answer simple, straightforward questions with straightforward answers? Again....

At what point does it become true that the second death no longer has power over someone? Wouldn't that be at the point in time that someone has part in the first resurrection since it says "Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power"?

 

[Davidpt]

At what point does it become true that the second death no longer has power over someone? Wouldn't that be at the point in time that someone has part in the first resurrection since it says "Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power"? I think so. So, when does that happen in your opinion?

Why would the 2nd death be relevant in the here and now? The 2nd death involves the LOF and eternal death, regardless how one might interpret eternal death. We can't apply the LOF to the here and now. Therefore, when it has no power over someone and why it has no power over them is because they are bodily alive forever at this point. And the fact you agree NOSAS is Biblical, why would you then argue that when the 2nd death has no power over someone it is meaning in the here and now, when NOSAS would be contradicting that?

 

[WPM]

I just posted it.
If your immortal ,you don't die.



Word: aqanasia

Pronounce: ath-an-as-ee'-ah

Strongs Number: G110

Orig: from a compound of 1 (as a negative particle) and 2288; deathlessness:--immortality. G1

Use: TDNT-3:22,312 Noun Feminine

Heb Strong:

1. 1) undying, immortality, everlasting

When does that kick in?

 

[WPM]

Why would the 2nd death be relevant in the here and now? The 2nd death involves the LOF and eternal death, regardless how one might interpret eternal death. We can't apply the LOF to the here and now. Therefore, when it has no power over someone and why it has no power over them is because they are bodily alive forever at this point. And the fact you agree NOSAS is Biblical, why would you then argue that when the 2nd death has no power over someone it is meaning in the here and now, when NOSAS would be contradicting that?

When does that kick in?

 

[tailgator]

When does that kick in?

Come on,I quoted the verse for you that says when it takes place.


"at the last trump: "

1 Corinth 15

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

As to B), though. The context pertains to someone literally dead at the time. And the fact everyone dies, regardless, that means when Jesus said anyone that believes in Him shall never die, He wasn't applying the never die part to the here and now. The believing in Him obviously applies to the here and now. But the never shall die part certainly isn't. He is simply meaning when He raises the saved in the last day, they will never die anymore after that. They will be alive for forever instead. He is basically meaning the following.

Luke 20:35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
36 Neither can they die any more : for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

Shall never die equals neither can they die any more. But not before they are bodily raised first, but after they are bodily raised. In Revelation 20:4 when they begin living and reigning with Christ a thousand years, this is meaning when Luke 20:35-36 is meaning, and is meaning what Luke 20:35-36 is meaning, and not what Amils have Revelation 20:4 meaning instead.

It's strange to me that a premil would try to use Luke 20:35-36 to support their doctrine since it does not. Let's take a closer look at it.

Luke 20:34 Jesus replied, “The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are considered worthy of taking part in the age to come and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, 36 and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection.

Jesus indicated that "the people of this age marry and are given in marriage". But, He said, in contrast to that, "those who are considered worthy of taking part in the age to come and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage". So, I think what you are missing here is that Jesus is contrasting an age during which people get married (this age) with an age during which people do not get married (the age to come). And He also said, in relation to the age to come, that "they can no longer die". That implies during this age people can die, but in the age to come people cannot die just like in this age people get married, but in the age to come people will not get married. You're not seeing that Jesus was comparing this temporal age during which people get married and die to the eternal age during which people will not get married and will not die. And the arrival of the age to come will occur when the resurrection of the dead occurs. But, of course, it's not just those who are resurrected who will be part of the age to come, but those who are alive and remain until the coming of Christ will be part of the age to come as well.

 

[David in NJ]

As to B), though. The context pertains to someone literally dead at the time. And the fact everyone dies, regardless, that means when Jesus said anyone that believes in Him shall never die, He wasn't applying the never die part to the here and now. The believing in Him obviously applies to the here and now. But the never shall die part certainly isn't. He is simply meaning when He raises the saved in the last day, they will never die anymore after that. They will be alive for forever instead. He is basically meaning the following.

Luke 20:35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
36 Neither can they die any more : for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

Shall never die equals neither can they die any more. But not before they are bodily raised first, but after they are bodily raised. In Revelation 20:4 when they begin living and reigning with Christ a thousand years, this is meaning when Luke 20:35-36 is meaning, and is meaning what Luke 20:35-36 is meaning, and not what Amils have Revelation 20:4 meaning instead.

Brother KEEP this in your Heart when reading/studying the Holy Scriptures:

Once GOD establishes a Foundation TRUTH, HE then builds on that TRUTH, which means that Foundation TRUTH does not vacate.

A comes BEFORE B

He wasn't applying the never die part to the here and now.

A comes BEFORE B

No one is part of the First Resurrection unless they were First Resurrected in their spirit = John 3:1-10 and 3:16

Therefore, once CHRIST imparts Eternal LIFE in you by His Spirit, you can never die!!!
Your flesh body will die.
But the REAL You inside that flesh body will never die!

SHALOM

 

[David in NJ]

Why are you telling me this as if I said otherwise or as if I didn't already know this? Why is it that you can't answer simple, straightforward questions with straightforward answers? Again....

At what point does it become true that the second death no longer has power over someone? Wouldn't that be at the point in time that someone has part in the first resurrection since it says "Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power"?

Brother KEEP this in your Heart when reading/studying the Holy Scriptures:

Once GOD establishes a Foundation TRUTH, HE then builds on that TRUTH, which means that Foundation TRUTH does not vacate.

A comes BEFORE B

After A = Born Again = First Resurrection in Christ of our spirit

Comes B = Resurrection of the body out from the Grave at His Second Coming = the First Resurrection unto Glorified Bodies