The deconstructing of the law in the New Testament

[Brakelite]

To whom were the TCs given?

Does the inclusion of the Sabbath prove that the Ten Commandments were for Israel alone?

- To whom were the Ten Commandments given? Deuteronomy 5:3-4 NIV It was not with our ancestors[a] that the Lord made this covenant, but with us, with all of us who are alive here today. 4 The Lord spoke to you face to face out of the fire on the mountain. - To whom was the Sabbath...

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Cain knew murder was sin. (Gen 4:7)
Noah, a preacher of righteousness, knew his contemporaries were "only evil continually". (Gen6:5).
Abraham knew the law. (Gen 26:5)
Joseph knew adultery was a sin against God. (Gen 39:9)
Yet throughout the history of Jacob's family, there was this intense battle between good and evil. Joseph's brothers knew rape was evil, yet were rather hazy over kidnapping and extortion. Yet even they were deeply repentant even before meeting the resurrected version of Joseph. I think sin was well recognised, and as we all know, "sin is the transgression of the law". So did the patriarchs know what God's Law entailed? Absolutely. Though they had forgotten the sabbath after 400 years of slavery, even though Moses tried to reinstate it, and God Himself reminding them several months before Sinai.
The law of God was however formerly codified at Sinai. That law written on stone was not the law of Moses. It was, and shall always remain, the law of God. The law of Moses was given as the recipe for forgiveness and healing from transgression of the law of God. The law of Moses was what pointed to Calvary and the Lamb of God. That distinction seems to be lost on Christians who search for excuses and reasons to justify sin. Like for example, "the law was nailed to the cross".

 

[St. SteVen]

The law of God was however formerly codified at Sinai.

I would say the law of God was codified at the Fall. Eating of the tree of
the knowledge of good and evil gave humankind their conscience.

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[Jack]

NOBODY obeys the Law of Moses! But some love preaching it!

 

[Fred J]

"For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." - John 1:17 NIV

I see many examples of the deconstruction of the law in the New Testament.

There's no such as, 'deconstruction of the Law in the New Testament'. For the Law is Spiritual and Just, from the same GOD, given and made with the Israelites as the Old Covenant. GOD's given Law is based on HIS holiness and righteousness shared with HIS redeemed people to abide by and be safe. But unfortunately sinful men were incompetent and unable to fulfill them and please GOD. Since the Law only bolts out their sins even more day after day.

The fulfillment of the Law is not obey and comply to the letter of the scripture within and is a done deal. But rather above all, fulfillment is according to the requirement of the Law in whole. That is, 'justice', 'mercy' and 'faithfulness', as well being carried out equally and towards one another evenly as a nation. Jesus said to the leaders of Israel, besides the ones they comply diligently to the letter (and even so ones they've added). That is, to the weightiest part of the Law's requirements they neglect, and have neglected since. Therefore justice, mercy and faithfulness is not served equally and justly among the Israelites.

Rather than the 'deconstruction of the Law', the New Testament dogma is merely the fulfillment to the requirements of the Law in the Old Testament. That's why we're no longer under the Old Testament, since the New Testament in compliance, is in fulfillment of the Law and the Prophets. From GOD's Holiness and Righteousness by the Law to bolt out sins, and to the coming Salvation by the Prophets. Thus finally to the Grace and Truth in redemption and to the righteous requirements fulfillment of the Law.

It began in the Gospel accounts and continued into the writing of the Apostle Paul.

Not quite, also not forgetting the writing of Luke, James, Peter, John and Jude.

In Matthew chapter five, Jesus refers to the law as hearsay and challenges it. There are five "You have heard that it was said... but I tell you..." statements.

It is not also 'hearsay' in general probably misinterpreted by men. But it is said by the Law as well, apparently pertaining to GOD's Holiness and Righteousness and Justice served in the Old.

On the other hand, now since the grace and truth have come to all mankind in the New. Hence forgive and love one another, and proclaim the Gospel until the final judgement. There's none found righteous and holy, even for one to get even with one's neighbor or enemy. For all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of GOD, and since redemption is for the whole world to be saved.

The most obvious examples are Jesus violating the Sabbath law. (I'll probably get lots of push-back on that) I'm not claiming that Jesus sinned.

It's merely accusation of sinful men belonging to the devil, since he lies, they too lie.

Does anyone else see the signs I am seeing here? Let's discuss.

John 9:16 NIV
Some of the Pharisees said, “This man is not from God, for he does not keep the Sabbath.”
But others asked, “How can a sinner perform such signs?” So they were divided.

John 5:18 NIV
For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath,
but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

We're dealing with the Lord of and over the Sabbath here. Jesus' work on the day of Sabbath, is not as the work of man, for six days and on the seventh he rest, as according to the Law. Even the hired masters of the Law, who burden the people with the Law, themselves violate the very Sabbath Law.

They who at times do lead their priced flocks for drink of water on that very day, like every other six days they do as work. Even the priests work on the day of Sabbath, and so did David who's not a Levite, entered the sacred Temple on that very day. And boldly took the 'show bread' and ate it, then shared with his men, in hunger.

Jesus said, to these not one of them leaders of Israel, did proclaimed as violation of the Sabbath, but alone the Son of man. Furthermore, He did not eat leaven bread on that day, since He even hardly ate. Doing justice and good to another fellowman man on Sabbath day, is a violation to GOD's Law? Is picking grains from wheat in the field and eat in hunger, not yeast filled, is violation to GOD's Law?

These are merely added interpretation of men who are white washed sepulcher, besides the written Law. As since what has even happened in Christendom itself, and till this very day.

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ

 

[Fred J]

Those religious leaders tag Jesus with many names;

1. Wine bibber
2. Friends of sinners, tax collector, prostitute, etc.
3. Blasphemer
4. Sabbath violator
5. Chief of demon power user

1. Wine bibber, basically wine was a customary drink during meal or feast (also not forgetting 'strong drinks' in the menu as well during their pilgrimage to Jerusalem). Probably these leaders or as reported, found Jesus on many occasions sitting with bunch of nobodies Israelite peasants. We have accounts Jesus being invited to or visiting, a house as a guest. Therefore by customary surely meal is prepared for the guest and at the same time wine is served during meal. And there are those who consume a lot of wine till drunk, cum, there are those who drink moderately and limitedly like Jesus. Biblically, to certain man of GOD alcohol is strictly prohibited, but is there anything in the Law in regards?

2. Friends of sinners, apparently in the same setting, furthermore Jesus ministers to these peasants, to what is the Kingdom of GOD is like. Jesus even replied back to these troubling leaders, that, heathy people need not doctors but sick people do. Also saying that, He did not come for the good but for sinners, since He heals, forgive and fully restore them into His FATHER's Kingdom. To these leaders they are known as sinners, unclean or an outcast like the Samaritans. Hence, is there anything by the Law to add?

3. Blasphemer, because being a mere man but make Himself equal to GOD, and this did not sink well on these leaders. The more and more they wanted to kill Him or have Him even executed. Basically the Law condemns if a mere man claim so, but Jesus is man and God. Now is there anything in the Law to add?

4. Sabbath violator, in addition to what has been shared prior, on Sabbath day Jesus restored a lame man back to normal. And instructed him to pick up his mat and walk, apparently ever since being separated from family, he walks back home (after being authorized by religious leader, as fully cured and clean). And also to witness to his family and neighbor what GOD has done for him through the Messiah. Is there any violation to the Sabbath according to the Law?

5. Chief demon power user, apparently there are those man who use or call upon these fallen spirits. And i believe the Law prohibit such practices, whether by an outsider or by an Israelite. But is untrue in the case of the Son of GOD, who uses the Power of GOD the FATHER. Anything to add that is stated in the Law in regards?

Peace be with you in Jesus name

 

[St. SteVen]

Those religious leaders tag Jesus with many names;

1. Wine bibber
2. Friends of sinners, tax collector, prostitute, etc.
3. Blasphemer
4. Sabbath violator
5. Chief of demon power user

Did Jesus deny any of these charges?

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[St. SteVen]

There's no such as, 'deconstruction of the Law in the New Testament'. For the Law is Spiritual and Just, from the same GOD, given and made with the Israelites as the Old Covenant. GOD's given Law is based on HIS holiness and righteousness shared with HIS redeemed people to abide by and be safe. But unfortunately sinful men were incompetent and unable to fulfill them and please GOD. Since the Law only bolts out their sins even more day after day.

Deconstruction is my term to describe what I see happening in the NT.
Here's one detailed example. There are more.

Question: Is work on the Sabbath a violation of Sabbath law?
How does Jesus respond to this accusation? See verse 17.

John 5:16-18 NIV
So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jewish leaders began to persecute him.
17 In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.”
18 For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath,
but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

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[Johann]

Question: Is work on the Sabbath a violation of Sabbath law?

The reason why you ask so many questions.

A Universalist, or someone who holds the belief that all people will ultimately be saved, might often ask questions in response to questions for several reasons:

1. To Encourage Open Dialogue and Avoid Confrontation
Universalists generally advocate for a perspective that emphasizes God's love, mercy, and inclusivity. By asking questions instead of directly stating their position, they might aim to create a more open, non-confrontational discussion. This approach invites others to reflect on their own views rather than immediately challenging them, which can foster a more relaxed dialogue.

2. To Explore Deeper Underlying Assumptions
Asking questions in return can be a strategy to dig deeper into the underlying assumptions or beliefs of the person they are speaking with. Universalists may feel that others are starting from assumptions about God's justice, salvation, or eternity that they don't share. By questioning, they can guide the conversation to those underlying theological issues rather than simply debating conclusions.

3. To Redirect Focus from Doctrine to Relationship or Experience

1. Some Universalists emphasize personal experience and relational theology (the idea that God's relationship with humanity is paramount) over strict doctrinal definitions. By responding with questions, they might seek to shift the conversation away from theoretical or doctrinal disagreements toward more personal or experiential understandings of faith and God.

4. To Challenge Certainty and Promote Humility
Many Universalists hold that no one can fully understand or predict God’s ways, particularly in regard to final judgment and salvation. Asking questions might serve as a way to challenge rigid or dogmatic positions, encouraging others to embrace uncertainty and humility in theological matters. Universalists often prioritize mystery and the unknowability of God’s ultimate plan, which can lead them to question others' certainties.

5. To Engage in Socratic Dialogue
Much like the Socratic method, asking questions can be a teaching technique used to lead someone to reconsider their position or to realize the limitations of their current understanding. Universalists might employ this tactic to guide someone towards seeing the inconsistencies or gaps in their own theological perspective, especially on topics like hell, judgment, or the nature of salvation.

In essence, asking questions in response to questions can be a deliberate tactic to encourage thoughtful reflection, avoid confrontation, and explore deeper theological nuances, reflecting the Universalist's emphasis on God's love, mystery, and inclusion.

J.

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
Question: Is work on the Sabbath a violation of Sabbath law?

The reason why you ask so many questions.

Great post, thanks.

Question: Is work on the Sabbath a violation of Sabbath law?

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[Spyder]

St. SteVen said:
Question: Is work on the Sabbath a violation of Sabbath law?

Great post, thanks.

Question: Is work on the Sabbath a violation of Sabbath law?

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No, as we are following the words of God's son who established the New Covenant. We are not to seek eternal life by following the Ten Commandments of the old one.

 

[St. SteVen]

In essence, asking questions in response to questions can be a deliberate tactic to encourage thoughtful reflection, avoid confrontation, and explore deeper theological nuances, reflecting the Universalist's emphasis on God's love, mystery, and inclusion.

A "deliberate tactic"?
That infers malice on my part. Is that fair?

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[ElieG12]

...
The religious leaders accused Jesus of working on the Sabbath. How did he respond?

John 5:17 NIV
In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.”

The following information was taken from a magazine article I studied some time ago... I hope it helps you understand why even if the Jewish religious leaders accused Jesus of violating the Sabbath law, in reality he was not violating it as stipulated in the written law:

Meticulous and Burdensome Practices​

Because the Mosaic Law was not very detailed regarding the Sabbath, rabbis over the centuries drew up numerous interdicts, mainly forbidding all forms of work on the Sabbath. According to the Mishnah, the prohibited work was grouped into 39 main categories, such as sewing, writing, and farm work. Many of these regulations are not Bible-based. Citing the Mishnah, the Encyclopædia Judaica acknowledges that they are as “mountains hanging by a hair, for there is little on the subject in the Scriptures yet the rules are many.”
To apply the commandment that a man should not “go out of his place on the seventh day,” a maximum distance was determined, and this was termed the “Sabbath limit.” According to certain sources, it corresponded to two thousand cubits, or about 2,900 feet [900 m]. (Exodus 16:29, King James Version) However, this regulation could be subtly bypassed: The evening before, Sabbath meals could be deposited a distance of two thousand cubits from the house. This location could then be considered an extension of the family home, and another two thousand cubits could be counted from that point.
Many of these man-made restrictions were in force in Jesus’ day. Thus, religious leaders reproached his disciples for having plucked heads of grain to eat as they were passing through grainfields. They were accused of breaking the Sabbath—plucking grain was considered reaping, and rubbing it was viewed as milling or grinding. Jesus denounced their extreme views on several occasions, for they misrepresented the spirit of Jehovah’s law.—Matthew 12:1-8; Luke 13:10-17; 14:1-6; John 5:1-16; 9:1-16.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1993127

 

[Behold]

No, as we are following the words of God's son who established the New Covenant. We are not to seek eternal life by following the Ten Commandments of the old one.

This is very true...

Notice.

The LAW... and that is the 10 Commandments and the other 612 obo Moses's law, all.....= Came by Moses.

Whereas ... "Grace and TRUTH, Came by Jesus The Christ".

Jesus kept the 10 Commandments and all the Law of Moses, so that WE are freed from.."the Curse of the Law", that is a curse to anyone, because the Law demands righteousness of a SINNER WHO = is defined by the law as a Sinner.
So, that is an impossible situation.
Sinners dont have any righteousness, and the LAW demands it, and that is why its a "CURSE".. to us ALL.

The GOOD NEWS, the GOSPEL, is that Jesus has come to take all that away, and did.

And when we BELIEVE in Jesus, then we are given "Christ's righteousness" as if we lived it all our lives. = Born... AGAIN.

And now being "made Righteous".... we are become "ONE with God"... as 1st Adam had it, because 2nd Adam, who is Jesus has provided THE CROSS as the WAY that God can eternally forgive us, and give us the new birth = to become a "new Creation IN CHRIST">. and in Christ we are "not under the Law, but Under Grace".

 

[Johann]

This is very true...

Notice.

The LAW... and that is the 10 Commandments and the other 612 obo Moses's law, all.....= Came by Moses.

Whereas ... "Grace and TRUTH, Came by Jesus The Christ".

Jesus kept the 10 Commandments and all the Law of Moses, so that WE are freed from.."the Curse of the Law", that is a curse to anyone, because the Law demands righteousness of a SINNER that is defined by the law as a Sinner.
So, that is an impossible situation.
Sinners dont have any righteousness, and the LAW demands it, and that is why its a "CURSE".. to us ALL.

The GOOD NEWS, the GOSPEL, is that Jesus has come to take all that away, and did.

And when we BELIEVE in Jesus, then we are given "Christ's righteousness" as if we lived it all our lives. = Born... AGAIN.

And now being "made Righteous".... we are become "ONE with God"... as 1st Adam had it, because 2nd Adam, who is Jesus has provided THE CROSS as the WAY that God can eternally forgive us, and give us the new birth = to become a "new Creation IN CHRIST">. and in Christ we are "not under the Law, but Under Grace".

Yet we are not lawless-correct @Behold?

J.

 

[Brakelite]

No, as we are following the words of God's son who established the New Covenant. We are not to seek eternal life by following the Ten Commandments of the old one.

Why would you jump to the typical straw man... we are not to seek eternal life by following the ten commandments? The question was, "is work on the sabbath a violation of the Sabbath law?"
The answer to that question, is it depends. If the work in question is secular money making employment type work, then yes. It's a violation. So also is general housework. That doesn't include keeping the house tidy on sabbath like picking up after a meal and making guests comfortable. Gardening can be left for another day. As can many other chores. But what Jesus was doing was sharing the truths of God's kingdom. He was expressing the love of God through healing and miracles. Doing the works of the Father as He said. Those works do not violate the sabbath. Nor does helping a neighbour out in an emergency...like helping to clear snow so he can visit a sick family member in hospitaletc.

 

[Brakelite]

We all know and understand that obeying God's commandments as a means to impress God enough to get us saved, is a futile cause. Everyone knows this. In fact, I have never met or heard anyone claim differently. I'm not sure why people keep mentioning it. Why isn't it a common practise among Christians to obey God's commandments? Not to be saved, but as a fruit of the righteousness imputed to us through Christ? We love God. We obey Him. We call Him Lord. We obey Him. Why is there so much controversy and poking around scripture for excuses to do otherwise?
In other words, why deconstruct the...oh, what law? The ten commandments spoken by the mouth of Jesus Himself from Sinai and written by Him in stone? Surely not.

 

[St. SteVen]

The question was, "is work on the sabbath a violation of the Sabbath law?"

I like your answers in posts #35 and #36. It helps me to understand where you are coming from. Thanks.

Here is the thing that struck me from the scripture in question, Jesus defense.
(why didn't he say what you said in post #35?)
The obvious answer to the question: "Is work on the sabbath a violation of Sabbath law?", is "Yes."

John 5:16-18 NIV
So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jewish leaders began to persecute him.
17 In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.”
18 For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath,
but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

[

 

[Spyder]

I like your answers in posts #35 and #36. It helps me to understand where you are coming from. Thanks.

Here is the thing that struck me from the scripture in question, Jesus defense.
(why didn't he say what you said in post #35?)
The obvious answer to the question: "Is work on the sabbath a violation of Sabbath law?", is "Yes."

John 5:16-18 NIV
So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jewish leaders began to persecute him.
17 In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.”
18 For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath,
but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

[

It is not the obvious answer unless one believes that Yeshua was born under "the law."

 

[St. SteVen]

It is not the obvious answer unless one believes that Yeshua was born under "the law."

Yes, what does that mean?

Galatians 4:4 NIV
But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law,

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[Brakelite]

The answer is simple. Doing good on the sabbath is not a violation of the law. What's the alternative? Doing good on the sabbath is a sin? You agree with the pharisees? You think Jesus and the Father are evil because they are working and violating the sabbath by doing good?
“11 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out? 12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days. ”
Matthew 12:11-12 KJV

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