Proof of Rapture before Tribulation

[Spiritual Israelite]

Revelation 11:3-4 KJV
3) And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4) These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

Personally I more associate this passage with the following,

Zechariah 4:11-14 KJV
11) Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?
12) And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?
13) And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
14) Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.

Much love!

I disagree with relating those two passages and believe it makes more sense to relate Revelation 11:3-4 to Romans 11 where it talks about the wild olive tree (Gentiles) being grafted in with the natural olive tree (Israelites). There's only one candlestick in the Zechariah 4 passage, not two.

 

[David in NJ]

I've expressed incredulity, and you've replaced that with "offended", and then you yourself express your incredulity. Does that mean you've become offended?

I think this goes towards proving my point that there is a vocabulary problem, not just in Scripture, but in reading other people's posts.

Much love!

'Much love' will examine Post 855 and fully embrace and rejoice in the Truth.

Much love for you marks is at the Feet of JESUS when you believe all that HE has for you to believe.

Much love!!!

 

[dad]

Revelation 11:3-4 KJV
3) And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4) These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

Personally I more associate this passage with the following,

Zechariah 4:11-14 KJV
11) Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?
12) And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?
13) And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
14) Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.

Much love!

Yes. Like Christians that bring light to the world, these guys are olive trees that pipe oil from God to a candlestick for the world. So the word candlestick in itself does not have to mean church

 

[David in NJ]

Much love for you David in NJ is at the Feet of JESUS when you believe all that HE has for you to believe.

SEE how easy it is to fellowship without being biased by the doctrines of men.

Matt 4:4 "man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the Mouth of God"

Are we going to get together for coffee, prayer and fellowship before we see each other in Heaven?

Much love!!!

 

[marks]

SEE how easy it is to fellowship without being biased by the doctrines of men.

Matt 4:4 "man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the Mouth of God"

Are we going to get together for coffee, prayer and fellowship before we see each other in Heaven?

Much love!!!

So I can get a bigger dose of your bad manners and condescension in person? Why would I want that? Show me something different, and we can revisit the question.

Much love!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yes. Like Christians that bring light to the world, these guys are olive trees that pipe oil from God to a candlestick for the world. So the word candlestick in itself does not have to mean church

In the book of Revelation, a candlestick symbolically represents a church.

Revelation 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

 

[marks]

I'm not going to waste my time arguing about this kind of thing.

I'm not surprised that you would not want to address this. Why would you?

Much love!

 

[David in NJ]

So I can get a bigger dose of your bad manners and condescension in person? Why would I want that? Show me something different, and we can revisit the question.

Much love!

So I can get a bigger dose of your bad manners and condescension in person?

lol x100

My 'bad manners' is showing you from the very words of Christ and the Apostles where you are doing the works of the enemy in opposing Scripture and even worse = rewriting scripture to support the lies of the enemy.

the LORD JESUS and the Apostles had really BAD manners as well:
a.) Matthew ch23
b.) John chapter 8
c.) Stephen was REAL BAD = Acts chapter 7
d.) Paul called out Peter's hypocrisy(take note that is was a nasty BLESSING to Peter)
e.) Moses = good thing you weren't under his leadership

Much love!!!

 

[David in NJ]

You quoted my post but you didn't respond to it. I was talking about how we use the same words but mean completely different things by them. I'm starting to notice quite a number of my posts are being treated the same way, as though I'm saying things that I'm not saying.

And that has no interest to me, and does not seem a fruitful discussion. I hope you understand these words, and can realize what I'm expressing to you.

I've been accused of being a poor communicator, so I don't want that to happen again.

Much love!

Well then, just say what you want to say and then compare what you are thinking /saying to Scripture = word for word

Internet chat can be very misleading in that it lacks face to face conversation which enables more accurate dialogue.

EXAMPLE: What is the "One New Man" according to the Apostle Paul?
How would you explain this to someone who asked you?

Much love!!!

 

[marks]

My 'bad manners' is showing you from the very words of Christ and the Apostles where you are doing the works of the enemy in opposing Scripture and even worse = rewriting scripture to support the lies of the enemy.

Nope, that's not it. Maybe if you read your posts as though they were written to you, maybe you could see? Maybe?

Bad manners is when you claim me as your Christian brother in one breath and in the next I'm changing Scripture to suit Satan. You really can't see this??

And over something as non-essential as rapture timing? Seriously man! Tone down the rhetoric.

Much love!

 

[David in NJ]

So I can get a bigger dose of your bad manners and condescension in person? Why would I want that? Show me something different, and we can revisit the question.

Much love!

Post 868 UPdated for you my Brother in Christ

 

[marks]

Much love!!!

Show a different pattern of behavior and it will erase your current pattern. I'm asking you to recognize what you are doing and change for the better.

Much love!

 

[David in NJ]

Nope, that's not it. Maybe if you read your posts as though they were written to you, maybe you could see? Maybe?

Bad manners is when you claim me as your Christian brother in one breath and in the next I'm changing Scripture to suit Satan. You really can't see this??

And over something as non-essential as rapture timing? Seriously man! Tone down the rhetoric.

Much love!

Have you forgotten when you changed scripture in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 to support the lie of pre-trib???

 

[marks]

Have you forgotten when you changed scripture in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 to support the lie of pre-trib???

Maybe you just cannot see it.

When what we say of ourselves is belied by what we actually do, which should be believed?

Much love!

 

[David in NJ]

Show a pattern of behavior and it will erase your current pattern. I'm asking you to recognize what you are doing and change for the better.

Much love!

Post 868

This is MOST IMPORTANT for you @marks:

And He began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.
He spoke this word openly. Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him.
But when He had turned around and looked at His disciples, He rebuked Peter, saying, “Get behind Me, Satan! For you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.”

BAD manners that SAVES mens Lives
the LORD greatly Loved Peter and His rebuke to Peter is the SAME rebuke to the false doctrine of pre-trib rapture!
pre-trib rapture does not care for the Truth but it does like to rebuke JESUS and the Apostles

Much MORE love in believing every word that proceeds from the Mouth of God!!!

 

[David in NJ]

Maybe you just cannot see it.

When what we say of ourselves is belied by what we actually do, which should be believed?

Bye for now!

Much love!

Post 875 is to be BELIEVED

 

[marks]

He rebuked Peter, saying, “Get behind Me, Satan! For you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.”

Yeah. Believe it, I've got your message. I suppose all you have is the rhetoric, so there will be no departing from it. You see yourself as you do, and you see me as you do, and you believe it to be righteous, so you will not depart from it.

pre-trib rapture does not care for the Truth but it does like to rebuke JESUS and the Apostles

You simply persist in being a false judge of other men's hearts, and a false accuser. Go to the Scriptures and see what God says of that.

Much love!

 

[David in NJ]

Yeah. Believe it, I've got your message. I suppose all you have is the rhetoric, so there will be no departing from it. You see yourself as you do, and you see me as you do, and you believe it to be righteous, so you will not depart from it.


You simply persist in being a false judge of other men's hearts, and a false accuser. Go to the Scriptures and see what God says of that.

Much love!

i do not judge men's hearts for only CHRIST can SEE into our hearts

The TRUTH says, "we speak out of our hearts" either our words agree with God's words or they disagree with "it is written"

i know the pattern of religion as i was raised in it UNTIL the LORD savd me from it
go over to the catholic posts for a refresher course of being self-deceived

Every denomination will love you when you submit to their doctrines or hate you when you expose their doctrines via the Word.

Everyday is a new Day to let go of that which opposes the words of Christ and the Apostles = it takes courage

The most amount of hate comes from the catholics protecting their idols and those who hold to pre-trib rapture doctrine.

Which Stands to Reason for those doctrines are man-made, man centered and are NOT part of God's Plan of Salvation.

Note: JESUS says: I am the Way, the Truth and the Life = JESUS and the Apostles are Post-Tribbers

"I, John, both your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the island that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ" - Revelation 1:9

Make no mistake that the LORD knowing of the false doctrine of pre-trib Opens Revelation with the Apostle "IN THE TRIBULATION"

Much MORE love in the Truth!!!

 

[marks]

i do not judge men's hearts

Your posts do not agree with this. Look, and see what I'm saying is true.

I'm serious man, look at what you write:

"The most amount of hate comes from the catholics protecting their idols and those who hold to pre-trib rapture doctrine."

You echo my words of love, but in vain, since you in the next breath say I'm a hater.

You accuse me of hate, and lies, and rebellion against God, and on and on you go, ad nauseum.

Much love!

 

[Bladerunner]

Please give more detail to your "two plans" - thank you

What do you or what have you heard about these two plans, so I don't go over details already known?