Proof of Rapture before Tribulation

[David in NJ]

The issue here is the return of Christ to earth. Not the rapture. Why post this verse?

Again, all about the second coming, not the Rapture. Why spam??

Again, all about the second coming, not the Rapture. Why spam??

PERFECT

 

[dad]

It is not opinion. A candlestick represents a Christian church. This is a known fact regarding the language of Rev. There are two of these Christian churches operating during the trib. It has never been true that the church is not found in most of the chapters of Rev.

Can you show that two churches operate in the tribulation? One church group Jesus says that because they did such and such He would keep them from it. I don't think that has to mean that they were IN it?

 

[David in NJ]

Genesis 1:1a - In the Beginning God

In the beginning
בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית (bə·rê·šîṯ)
Preposition-b | Noun - feminine singular
Strong's Hebrew 7225: 1) first, beginning, best, chief 1a) beginning 1b) first 1c) chief 1d) choice part

God
אֱלֹהִ֑ים (’ĕ·lō·hîm)
Noun - masculine plural
Strong's Hebrew 430: 1) (plural) 1a) rulers, judges 1b) divine ones 1c) angels 1d) gods 2) (plural intensive-singular meaning) 2a) god, goddess 2b) godlike one 2c) works or special possessions of God 2d) the (true) God 2e) God

Then Elohim(PLURAL) said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; = 3

 

[David in NJ]

Post 763

 

[ewq1938]

Can you show that two churches operate in the tribulation? One church group Jesus says that because they did such and such He would keep them from it. I don't think that has to mean that they were IN it?

They operate in Rev 11, which is the trib and shows the end of the trib which is when the 7th trump sounds. The two churches are part of the two witnesses who prophesy during the 1260 days which is the 42 months the beast rules during the trib.

Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

 

[Bladerunner]

It is not opinion. A candlestick represents a Christian church. This is a known fact regarding the language of Rev. There are two of these Christian churches operating during the trib. It has never been true that the church is not found in most of the chapters of Rev.

No the Candlestick you are speaking of represented the two witnesses and acknowledged in the Bible verse I gave you earlier. cannot help if you do not believe the word of GOD...you have to answer to Him over that.

 

[Keraz]

Our Destiny:
Jeremiah 33:6-14 See this Land: it lies in ruins, inhabited by neither man or animals. Yet in this place, once more will be heard the sounds of joy and happiness, for I will restore the fortunes of My Land and people. The days are coming, says the Lord, when I shall bestow on Judah and Israel all the blessings I have promised to them.

Isaiah 30:18 The Lord is waiting to show you His favour. He yearns to have pity on you, for the Lord is full of justice. Happy are you who wait on Him.
Isaiah 52:6 On that Day My people will know My name and know that it is the Lord who speaks, here I am.

Ezekiel 34:22-31 Therefore, I shall save My flock and they will be ravaged no more....... You are the flock that I feed and I am your God.

Isaiah 65:24=25 Even before My people call to Me, I shall answer. Neither hurt nor harm will be done in all of My holy Land.

Isaiah 46:4 Till you grow old, I am the Lord and when white hairs come, I will carry you still. I have made you and I shall uphold you. I shall carry you away to safety.

Psalms 105:43-44 The Lord led out His people in triumph. He gave them lands of the heathen nations for their possession.

Isaiah 65:20-23 My people will build and plant for themselves, they will enjoy the fruit of their labour. They will be as long lived as a tree.

Ezekiel 36:8-12 Now you: Land of Israel, grow your plants and bear fruit for the homecoming of My people is near. The whole House of Israel will come, very many people and you will be their possession.

Psalms 147:2-3 The Lord gathers the scattered [faithful Christian] Israelites, He heals their broken spirit and binds their wounds. He rebuilds Jerusalem.

Joel 3:18 When that Day comes the Land will be well watered and productive.

Isaiah 32:15-20 The Spirit from on high will come upon the people, then the Land will become a well watered beautiful garden; a tranquil country, its people living in peace and security.

Romans 8:18 For I consider that the sufferings of the present times are not worth comparing with the glory that is going to be revealed to us.

Psalm 37:29 The righteous will possess the Land and will live there forever.
Ref: REB. Some verses abridged

 

[dad]

They operate in Rev 11, which is the trib and shows the end of the trib which is when the 7th trump sounds. The two churches are part of the two witnesses who prophesy during the 1260 days which is the 42 months the beast rules during the trib.

Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

So NO mention of church whatsoever then. OK. You want to replace the word candlestick with church.
Using your interpretive method then, we need not guess the meaning of this verse..

2 Kings 4:10

Please, let's build him a little room on the roof. We'll put a bed and a table in it for him, and a stool and a candlestick. Then, whenever he comes to visit us, he can stay there."
To they stuck a little model church on his rooftop desk? Or was it that the church was on the roof? Or maybe a visiting church came to the roof often?

I guess they built a little church in the tabernacle in the dessert also?

Exodus 25:31
And thou shalt make a candlestick of pure gold: of beaten work shall the candlestick be made: his shaft, and his branches, his bowls, his knops, and his flowers, shall be of the same.

The hand that wrote the warning message in Daniel, I guess it wrote on a church?

Daniel 5:5
In the same hour came forth fingers of a man's hand, and wrote over against the candlestick upon the plaister of the wall of the king's palace: and the king saw the part of the hand that wrote.

Babylon carried churches away from the temple as well?

Jer 52:17 Also the pillars of brass that were in the house of the Lord, and the bases, and the brasen sea that was in the house of the Lord, the Chaldeans brake, and carried all the brass of them to Babylon.

18 The caldrons also, and the shovels, and the snuffers, and the bowls, and the spoons, and all the vessels of brass wherewith they ministered, took they away.

19 And the basons, and the firepans, and the bowls, and the caldrons, and the candlesticks, and the spoons, and the cups; that which was of gold in gold, and that which was of silver in silver, took the captain of the guard away.

- Context. It is safe to say that the word candlestick does not mean church. It was used in connection with churches in some instances. But it was also used in connection with a desk.

In other words you selectively interpret verses to fit your doctrinal mold by twisting and welding and changing them.

 

[MA2444]

LOL x100 = you made my night Brother

What was the Greatest evil ever committed in the Bible???

I asked you explain your position and you did not. WHy not? Weird.

The greatest evil in scripture? Probably blasphemy against the Hoy Spirit?

Can you give me further explaiation of what you said earlier or not?

 

[David in NJ]

I asked you explain your position and you did not. WHy not? Weird.

The greatest evil in scripture? Probably blasphemy against the Hoy Spirit?

Can you give me further explaiation of what you said earlier or not?

The greatest evil ever committed sent MORE people to Hell, by FAR, then blaspheming the Holy Spirit.


Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman, “Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?”

2And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden; 3but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.’ ”

4Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. 5For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

6So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. 7Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings.

 

[David in NJ]

Our Destiny:
Jeremiah 33:6-14 See this Land: it lies in ruins, inhabited by neither man or animals. Yet in this place, once more will be heard the sounds of joy and happiness, for I will restore the fortunes of My Land and people. The days are coming, says the Lord, when I shall bestow on Judah and Israel all the blessings I have promised to them.

Isaiah 30:18 The Lord is waiting to show you His favour. He yearns to have pity on you, for the Lord is full of justice. Happy are you who wait on Him.
Isaiah 52:6 On that Day My people will know My name and know that it is the Lord who speaks, here I am.

Ezekiel 34:22-31 Therefore, I shall save My flock and they will be ravaged no more....... You are the flock that I feed and I am your God.

Isaiah 65:24=25 Even before My people call to Me, I shall answer. Neither hurt nor harm will be done in all of My holy Land.

Isaiah 46:4 Till you grow old, I am the Lord and when white hairs come, I will carry you still. I have made you and I shall uphold you. I shall carry you away to safety.

Psalms 105:43-44 The Lord led out His people in triumph. He gave them lands of the heathen nations for their possession.

Isaiah 65:20-23 My people will build and plant for themselves, they will enjoy the fruit of their labour. They will be as long lived as a tree.

Ezekiel 36:8-12 Now you: Land of Israel, grow your plants and bear fruit for the homecoming of My people is near. The whole House of Israel will come, very many people and you will be their possession.

Psalms 147:2-3 The Lord gathers the scattered [faithful Christian] Israelites, He heals their broken spirit and binds their wounds. He rebuilds Jerusalem.

Joel 3:18 When that Day comes the Land will be well watered and productive.

Isaiah 32:15-20 The Spirit from on high will come upon the people, then the Land will become a well watered beautiful garden; a tranquil country, its people living in peace and security.

Romans 8:18 For I consider that the sufferings of the present times are not worth comparing with the glory that is going to be revealed to us.

Psalm 37:29 The righteous will possess the Land and will live there forever.
Ref: REB. Some verses abridged

BEAUTIFUL
Thank You

 

[rebuilder 454]

The "peace time/normal life" is ONLY for the world = "they" and "them"

But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.
For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman.
And they shall not escape.


as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage,
A.) - until the day that Noah entered the ark,
B.) - and they did not know until the flood came and took them all away,
C.) - so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

you better know your ABC's

Exactly.
You just placed the setting.
...which destroys your entire deal.

 

[MA2444]

The greatest evil ever committed sent MORE people to Hell, by FAR, then blaspheming the Holy Spirit.


Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman, “Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?”

2And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden; 3but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.’ ”

4Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. 5For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

6So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. 7Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings.

Ok, good scriptures, and true. But your answer did not say one word about what evil is there in believing pre trib.

For the sake of conversation, suppose pre trib is wrong. Where is the evil in drawing closer to the Lord sooner than post trib believers? They pray more, read the word more, and am expecting Him sooner rather than ater. SO would not the pre trib believers have a closer relationship with the Lord than post tribbers who arent even lookig for Him?

Answer that one speciffically. Dont just post other scriptures that have little to do with the point you made about pre tribbers being evil somehow. Does that make you appear more pious? Do a pious position mean that you are rigt somehow and pre tribbers evil?

Stay on the subject bro. You going to give an answer or not?

 

[MA2444]

The "peace time/normal life" is ONLY for the world = "they" and "them"

But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.
For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman.
And they shall not escape.


as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage,
A.) - until the day that Noah entered the ark,
B.) - and they did not know until the flood came and took them all away,
C.) - so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

you better know your ABC's

I guarentee you no one will be saying Peace & Safety during the great trib! That dont even make sense.

 

[David in NJ]

Ok, good scriptures, and true. But your answer did not say one word about what evil is there in believing pre trib.

For the sake of conversation, suppose pre trib is wrong. Where is the evil in drawing closer to the Lord sooner than post trib believers? They pray more, read the word more, and am expecting Him sooner rather than ater. SO would not the pre trib believers have a closer relationship with the Lord than post tribbers who arent even lookig for Him?

Answer that one speciffically. Dont just post other scriptures that have little to do with the point you made about pre tribbers being evil somehow. Does that make you appear more pious? Do a pious position mean that you are rigt somehow and pre tribbers evil?

Stay on the subject bro. You going to give an answer or not?

Ok, good scriptures, and true. But your answer did not say one word about what evil is there in believing pre trib.

Actually, it did in great detail.

You will have to pray about that to our FATHER and wait on Him to reveal it to you.

Here is another pronouncement from the LORD on that great evil and His Remedy to avoid committing that evil.

Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
6Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar. - Proverbs 30:5-6

 

[MA2444]

Actually, it did in great detail.

You will have to pray about that to our FATHER and wait on Him to reveal it to you.

Here is another pronouncement from the LORD on that great evil and His Remedy to avoid committing that evil.

Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
6Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar. - Proverbs 30:5-6

Sigh...Can you speak plainly? Can you reduce it from an in depth philosophy to shorter more succinct statements? Please?

What great evil is there in believing and looking for the Lord to return sooner than you think He will?

Dont use scriptures, tell me in your own words. Do you even have an answer for me? Yes or no?

 

[David in NJ]

Sigh...Can you speak plainly? Can you reduce it from an in depth philosophy to shorter more succinct statements? Please?

What great evil is there in believing and looking for the Lord to return sooner than you think He will?

Dont use scriptures, tell me in your own words. Do you even have an answer for me? Yes or no?

What great evil is there in believing and looking for the Lord

None whatsoever as it is 100% TRUTH

What great evil is there in believing and looking for the Lord to return sooner than you think He will?

Proverbs 30:5-6 and Matt ch24

Go ask the Brethren who were duped by the lie of pre-trib rapture and how they lost their homes and finances. and more..............

 

[MA2444]

Proverbs 30:5-6 and Matt ch24

Go ask the Brethren who were duped by the lie of pre-trib rapture and how they lost their homes and finances. and more..............

Proverbs 30:5-6
5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.

6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar..../KJV

So are you calling me a liar? Yes or no? Simple.

WHo are these pre tribbers who lost their homes and finances? Date setters? They stopped going to work or something? No one knows the date or time so we cant be date setters! They are idiots who do that sort of thing. They even did it back in biblical days. I think Paul wrote about that.

None whatsoever as it is 100% TRUTH

What? Lemme see here...

My Brother in Christ, you do not know the depth of evil that pre-trib rapture is and has done to the churches.

It is MUCH MORE then just saying 'pre-trib rapture'.

What about that post? If what I said was 100% truth then what you wrote above was incorrect? A lie itself? What evil is there in drawing closer to the Lord NOW and watching for Him to come back before the great tribulation??????????????????

It's either one way or the other. It cant be true and evil at the same time.

Sigh...more of the same now? Cant you baxk up your statements or just make statements and then deny that you did? Answer the question! WHat's evil about pre trib? WHat deception? WHat what what?

 

[David in NJ]

Proverbs 30:5-6
5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.

6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar..../KJV

So are you calling me a liar? Yes or no? Simple.

WHo are these pre tribbers who lost their homes and finances? Date setters? They stopped going to work or something? No one knows the date or time so we cant be date setters! They are idiots who do that sort of thing. They even did it back in biblical days. I think Paul wrote about that.



What? Lemme see here...


What about that post? If what I said was 100% truth then what you wrote above was incorrect? A lie itself? What evil is there in drawing closer to the Lord NOW and watching for Him to come back before the great tribulation??????????????????

It's either one way or the other. It cant be true and evil at the same time.

Sigh...more of the same now? Cant you baxk up your statements or just make statements and then deny that you did? Answer the question! WHat's evil about pre trib? WHat deception? WHat what what?

You only have three choices:
a.) Seek the TRUTH = Proverbs 30:5-6, the Gospel and the Apostles Peter, Paul & John words
b.) remain as you are under pre-trib


So they watched Him, and sent spies who pretended to be righteous, that they might seize on His words, in order to deliver Him to the power and the authority of the governor.

21Then they asked Him, saying, “Teacher, we know that You say and teach rightly, and You do not show personal favoritism, but teach the way of God in truth: 22Is it lawful for us to pay taxes to Caesar or not?”

23But He perceived their craftiness, and said to them, “Why do you test Me? 24Show Me a denarius. Whose image and inscription does it have?”

They answered and said, “Caesar’s.”

25And He said to them, “Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”

26But they could not catch Him in His words in the presence of the people. And they marveled at His answer and kept silent.

 

[MA2444]

You only have three choices:
a.) Seek the TRUTH = Proverbs 30:5-6, the Gospel and the Apostles Peter, Paul & John words
b.) remain as you are under pre-trib
c.) falsely accuse and twist words(as you are doing now)

WHy wont you answer my question?