It is time to give Pretrib a decent burial

[David in NJ]

Something very strange indeed is going on and it has been foretold .
The time wherein the trangressors have come to the full is at hand
and a king understanding dark sentences shall arise and shall decieve by and through PEACE .
This king being made mention of
is a king that also seems to do something
that i seem to see in the plans .
What does the king do that many have overlooked and perhaps not noticed .
First what is the plan to do with Israel and even within Jerusalem . TO divide the land for a peace pact .
You all have heard of this plan . You have seen the news speak of dividing up land to give to the palestines and etc .
And now a word from long long long ago and from a book that collects dust on many a shelf .
And by peace shall he destroy many .
HE shall DIVIDE the land for gain . YEAH IT SAYS THAT . IT SAYS HE SHALL DIVIDE THE LAND .

ISLAM

 

[David in NJ]

@amigo de christo @marks

Do not be SHOCKED if Israel accepts Muhammad as their messiah, followed by a Peace Treaty.

Do not be SHOCKED if someone rises from the dead, whether thru cloning or REAL, and they claim that he is
the true prophet Muhammad and the messiah.

Do not be SHOCKED if the RCC and the Pope declare ISLAM/Muhammad as the new one world leader.

These are REAL possiblities and we must continue to WATCH and be READY.

Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7For the [d]mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only [e]He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

 

[marks]

@amigo de christo @marks

Do not be SHOCKED if Israel accepts Muhammad as their messiah, followed by a Peace Treaty.

Do not be SHOCKED if someone rises from the dead, whether thru cloning or REAL, and they claim that he is
the true prophet Muhammad and the messiah.

Do not be SHOCKED if the RCC and the Pope declare ISLAM/Muhammad as the new one world leader.

These are REAL possiblities and we must continue to WATCH and be READY.

Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7For the [d]mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only [e]He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

An Islamic antichrist? No, the Jews would not accept that.

Don't be shocked if all the major militarized Islamic nations gather in an invasion of Israel, reaching the mountains of Israel with their armies. Their combined armies will be almost entirely destroyed, leaving (according to my Hebrew trained friend) a smear.

Islamic military strength will be cut down in one stroke as the 70th week begins, when the beast comes out of the sea.

Much love!

 

[David in NJ]

An Islamic antichrist? No, the Jews would not accept that.

Don't be shocked if all the major militarized Islamic nations gather in an invasion of Israel, reaching the mountains of Israel with their armies. Their combined armies will be almost entirely destroyed, leaving (according to my Hebrew trained friend) a smear.

Islamic military strength will be cut down in one stroke as the 70th week begins, when the beast comes out of the sea.

Much love!

@amigo de christo @ewq1938

We must believe the Prophecy that the Lord Jesus Christ gave concerning Israel, it has NOT yet been fulfilled.

We must watch and be ready for the deception is here now waiting to be revealed!

the Prophecy JESUS spoke about Israel = John 5:43

“I do not receive honor from men. But I know you, that you do not have the love of God in you.
I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive.

When JESUS says: "another comes in his own name", this could signify a non-Jew or the seed of Abraham/Ismael.

 

[marks]

We must believe the Prophecy that the Lord Jesus Christ gave concerning Israel, it has NOT yet been fulfilled.

Certainly, of course! Not just those prophecies, but the rest also, even the OT.

Much love!

 

[marks]

“I do not receive honor from men. But I know you, that you do not have the love of God in you.
I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive.

When JESUS says: "another comes in his own name", this could signify a non-Jew or the seed of Abraham/Ismael.

I don't see that. This passage doesn't mean any more than it says. Jesus came in His Father's Name. If another comes on their own (whomever they may be) he will be received.

Much love!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Actually, I find the opposite is true. This is how I have certainty, by seeing whether or not certain things are actually stated, or not. It can be a real eye opener to realize how much of various views are build on assumptions of things not actually stated.

Or another culprit is when someone says, "It says THIS, but means THAT."

Not sure if you're really understanding my point. We shouldn't require that something be explicitly spelled out to us in order to believe something is true or to have an understanding of what a verse or passage is saying. With the Holy Spirit's help, we should be able to discern truth from scripture without it having to be explicitly spelled out to us as if we were little kids who can only understand the most elementary things in scripture. But, the foundation of our doctrines should be based on clear scripture, for sure. Don't get me wrong on that. We amils get mischaracterized as supposedly spiritualizing everything when the fact of the matter is that the foundation of our doctrine is on clear, straightforward scriptures like John 5:28-29, 2 Peter 3:10-13, 2 Thess 1:7-10 and others.

Daniel 9:24-26 KJV
24) Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25) Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26) And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Romans 5:10 KJV
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Yes.

Do you?

Of course. I believe that Christ's death was necessary in order for all six things listed in in Daniel 9:24 to be fulfilled. So, with that in mind and with the understanding that 70 weeks were determined for those things to be fulfilled, how can you not have His death occurring within any of the 70 weeks?

 

[David in NJ]

I don't see that. This passage doesn't mean any more than it says. Jesus came in His Father's Name. If another comes on their own (whomever they may be) he will be received.

Much love!

@amigo de christo @ewq1938

let's think scripture here

the Jews have been crying out for their messiah for a long time and it has reached it's PEAK which began in 1948

Now the Jews want their temple back because they know OT prophecy about the messiah and his temple.

ONE MONUMENTAL PROBLEM for the Jews in Israel and specifically Jerusalem = their MESSIAH came and Rebuilt His Temple!!!

 

[marks]

let's think scripture here

Yes, let's do!

 

[marks]

Not sure if you're really understanding my point.

No, I think I do. I'll just say this. If the Bible doesn't say something, you may still think it's so, and it's not necessarily not so, only, there is no Scriptural Authority. I recognize some matters have Scriptural authority, and others matters are men's opinions. That is, some things are clearly stated, and other things are not.

From there, we each have our own ideas about where to draw the line. My focus in this matter is that we understand that we are each drawing our line, and we should be clear about what is and isn't specified in any given text.

as if we were little kids

That's not a bad thing to be! Hey, didn't Jesus say something about that?

I'm advocating for a knowledgeable and reasoned approach to interpretation that includes a good dose of self-awareness, so we are clear on what we are bringing in, and what is there already.

how can you not have His death occurring within any of the 70 weeks?

The text simply says, "after the 62 weeks". (I was incorrect earlier when I said "after the 69 weeks", it actually separates the 62 weeks from the first 7 weeks.

Then it speaks of a week of a confirmed covenant, which it speaks of AFTER Messiah is cut off, at least, that's the sequence it appears in the text. Mind you, I've heard myriad timelines people have applied to this handful of verses.

62 weeks . . . then Messiah cut off . . . then a covenant confirmed for 1 week . . . in the middle of the week the sacrifice is stopped.

Much love!

 

[David in NJ]

Yes, let's do!

Yes, let's do!

Return to Post 1624

The revelation of the FATHER/SON/HOLY SPIRIT begins in GENESIS
The Promise of the Savior for all mankind begins in GENESIS
The First and Second Coming of MESSIAH begins in GENESIS

The First and Second Coming of MESSIAH is in Daniel ch2
The Irrefutable TRUTH of MESSIAH being the 70th Week is in Daniel, the Gospel, Hebrews
The Irrefutable TRUTH on ONE Resurrection for ALL Believers/Saints/Elect is in Daniel
Who the People of God are for all ages is in GENESIS, ISAIAH, JEREMIAH, DANIEL and more

 

[gpresdo]

@gpresdo

i need some clarification please

Can you please show me the verse that declares the rapture in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

ONLY the verse that says rapture/catching up - Thank You

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.
14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

15For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Better.....show me scriptures which says their is .....no being taken up...(rapture)??

 

[David in NJ]

Better.....show me scriptures which says their is .....no being taken up...(rapture)??

Please post ONLY the Rapture/Caught up verse in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

Thank You

 

[gpresdo]

This is why the LORD tells us to 'speak and encourage one another Daily from/in His words'

Please post ONLY the Rapture/Caught up verse in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

Thank You

Thanks for the invite but, I can't fill that level of positioning.......post your point...I am anxious to see it!!
You see...I apply the whole of the Bible...God's word.

 

[David in NJ]

Thanks for the invite but, I can't fill that level of positioning.......post your point...I am anxious to see it!!

You certainly are able to both read a sentence and write a sentence.

God's word is written for children = very easy to read and understand.

Are you afraid of what you may see?

 

[David in NJ]

Thanks for the invite but, I can't fill that level of positioning.......post your point...I am anxious to see it!!
You see...I apply the whole of the Bible...God's word.

There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear.

Go ahead and post the 'rapture/catching up' verse in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 = God put it in there for you to see and believe.

 

[amigo de christo]

@amigo de christo @ewq1938

let's think scripture here

the Jews have been crying out for their messiah for a long time and it has reached it's PEAK which began in 1948

Now the Jews want their temple back because they know OT prophecy about the messiah and his temple.

ONE MONUMENTAL PROBLEM for the Jews in Israel and specifically Jerusalem = their MESSIAH came and Rebuilt His Temple!!!

And when given the revelation by Christ , JOHN saw the temple .
I beheld and there was no temple for GOD and the LAMB are THE TEMPLE .
we are little stones added into that temple by faith in HE WHO IS that temple . HIS CHRIST .
Let all that has breath both praise and thank the glorious LORD .
Take note of a prophecy given in amos . concerning the days wherein God would rebuild that temple .
Cause PETER quoates that very prophecy when speaking of the gospel itself . We have us a temple my
friend . A heavenly glorious house . THE LORD is our hope and our salvation .

 

[amigo de christo]

@amigo de christo @ewq1938

let's think scripture here

the Jews have been crying out for their messiah for a long time and it has reached it's PEAK which began in 1948

Now the Jews want their temple back because they know OT prophecy about the messiah and his temple.

ONE MONUMENTAL PROBLEM for the Jews in Israel and specifically Jerusalem = their MESSIAH came and Rebuilt His Temple!!!

The problem for many is they cry for a coming MESSIAH
and yet DENY the MESSIAH who has already came long ago to finish the works , to establish and to fullfill .
Now that MESSIAH is seated at the RIGHT HAND of the FATHER
making intercession on behalf of those who have entered into the true by the blood of the Lamb .
But as MOSES was long gone up that moutain and the children of israel began to play and dance
to the song of a golden wicked bull
So TOO has the SON been GONE a long time
and many within christendom now dance around a golden bull of a lie that has made the path to GOD very very braod and sin accepting .
As MOSES stood for the children on that moutain
CHRIST makes intercession
But when MOSES returned He came in part as the wrath of GOD to slay those most wicked
SO TOO shall the CHRIST come to lay down the wrath of GOD against the ungodly who danced too and loved a lie .
That is just a real friendly but very necessary reminder for today . WHEN once the master has risen up
and closed the door , ALL outside shall wail . Every false religoin has led its people into darkness
and the broad path sin accepting jesus that many preach , IS NOT JESUS the CHRIST and it cannot save or deliver
this people FROM the wrath . AND i have to say with a sense of urgency to all , TIMES RUNNING OUT .
TIIME for the churches to start preaching THE DIRE NEED TO BELEIVE ON JESUS rather than trying to find common ground
with darkness and promoting a lie that damns and cannot save . TIME for the peoples to make an exodus
out of false places and enter back into the BIBLE and learn that GOD and all doctrine well .

 

[amigo de christo]

There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear.

Go ahead and post the 'rapture/catching up' verse in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 = God put it in there for you to see and believe.

The fear of the LORD is to depart from evil
the fear of man is a SNARE to the soul .
The LOVE of GOD rejoices in truth
the love of the world rejoices in a lie and in inquity , in the flesh and lusts thereof .
Freedom from GOD sets a man free from sin
Freedom TO SIN is a concept taught of man .
Liberty walked in by the SPIRIT is a gift from GOD
but LIBERTY USED as an occasion to serve the flesh , again is a lie and a concept taught of man .
The PEACE of GOD is to preach CHRIST JESUS who reconciles man to GOD and that by FAITH IN HIM
we now have PEACE with GOD .
The peace of pope francis and of the world , DENIES the PEACE OF GOD , and reconciles only man to man
and gathers the world as one , BUT NOT UNDERGOD and thus THEY shall not and do not have PEACE WITH GOD .

 

[rebuilder 454]

God has never said HE would gathered up his people via pre-tribulation = TRUTH

God ALWAYS gathers up His Saints/People Pre-WRATH = ALWAYS

In your model, unbeknownst to you, there is NO BUYING OR SELLING, NO NORMAL LIFE.
And yet you can not comprehend that.
You can not comprehend your OWN MODEL.