Not ALL the physically dead are raised at the same time, the dead in Christ rise FIRST.

[Spiritual Israelite]

You know, it's really no big deal, but amillennialists and Calvinists are very strongly positively correlated, SI. Most ____ (either one) are ____________ (the other).

I'm betting you'll argue with that, too... <smile>

Grace and peace to you, SI.

Of course I will argue with that since it's false. I argue with false teaching and false beliefs. That's just what I do. There's no direct correlation between amillennialism and Calvinism. That's complete nonsense. Some of the leading dispensationalists are Calvinists, such as John MacArthur. So, there is no basis for thinking that if you believe one then you should also believe the other.

 

[jeffweeder]

But Revelation 20:4-6 is a single end time event that happens at the last trump at the last day when the dead in Christ rise first and are judged first.

Jn 12
48 Whoever rejects Me and refuses to accept My teachings, has one who judges him; the very word that I spoke will judge and condemn him on the last day.


Seeing as all who have rejected Jesus will be judged the last day, then it's impossible for it to an end time event as the rest of the dead are dealt will a thousand years later. That proves the first resurrection is Spiritual.
It also brings harmony to John's writing in Jn 5 and Rev 20.
The time now is for not coming into judgment and being hurt by the second death.


24 “I assure you and most solemnly say to you, the person who hears My word [the one who heeds My message], and believes and trusts in Him who sent Me, has (possesses now) eternal life [that is, eternal life actually begins—the believer is transformed], and does not come into judgment and condemnation, but has passed [over] from death into life.

5 The rest of the dead [the non-believers] did not come to life again until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed (happy, prosperous, to be admired) and holy is the person who takes part in the first resurrection; over these the second death [which is eternal separation from God, the lake of fire] has no power or authority, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and they will reign with Him a thousand years.

 

[jeffweeder]

But Revelation 20:4-6 is a single end time event that happens at the last trump at the last day when the dead in Christ rise first and are judged first.

Who's on first


Matt 13
30 Let them grow together until the harvest; and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, “First gather the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Who's on first


Matt 13
30 Let them grow together until the harvest; and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, “First gather the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”

The living wicked are gathered and burned, but the dead wicked are not resurrected and judged until AFTER the millennium.

 

[Davy]

If that was the case then ALL the wicked dead would go directly into the lake of fire, or the second death at that time. But that is not what is shown in scripture.

That idea goes directly against the Rev.20 GWT Judgment that only occurs after... the 1,000 years. Like Jesus said in John 5:28-29, ALL... the dead will hear His voice on the day of His coming, and all of them will "come forth", to either type of resurrection.

What you obviously are not understanding is that the "resurrection of damnation" means being in a state of condemnation even though the time of the actual casting into the "lake of fire" hasn't happened yet, like the idea of someone condemned on death row waiting execution. Those spiritually "dead" of Rev.20:5 will stand in condemnation all throughout Christ's 1,000 years reign with His elect. Their place during that future 1,000 years will be outside the gates of the beloved city on earth, per Rev.22:14-15.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

What you obviously are not understanding is that the "resurrection of damnation" means being in a state of condemnation even though the time of the actual casting into the "lake of fire" hasn't happened yet, like the idea of someone condemned on death row waiting execution.

I see 2 seperate resurrections and 2 seperate judgments. The resurrection of life is the first resurrection of the dead in Christ that is to those who have their names written in the book of Life.

The “resurrection of damnation” is the second resurrection of the rest of the dead at the GWT judgement.

But at Christs return the living wicked go directly into the fire.

 

[Davy]

I see 2 seperate resurrections and 2 seperate judgments. The resurrection of life is the first resurrection of the dead in Christ that is to those who have their names written in the book of Life.

The “resurrection of damnation” is the second resurrection of the rest of the dead at the GWT judgement.

But at Christs return the living wicked go directly into the fire.

Nope, the 'implied'... second resurrection is another one LIKE the FIRST RESURRECTION.

If I show you a row of items and say, "here comes the 1st one", you will automatically expect at least one more item to come, and that it will be like the 1st one.

For what you are saying in order to work, there must be TWO resurrections of damnation. Lord Jesus only mentioned one "resurrection of damnation", and it is to occur on the day of His future return like He showed in John 5:28-29, WHICH YOU STILL REFUSE TO HEED.!

 

[CadyandZoe]

LOL!!! What happened in 1948 defeated Amillennialism? Hardly! LOL!!! You guys are comedians.

Yes, it did. I can only assume you haven't realized this yet or you would have changed your mind.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Antichrists defeated Amillennialism?

The restoration of Israel defeated Amillennialism.

 

[jeffweeder]

The living wicked are gathered and burned, but the dead wicked are not resurrected and judged until AFTER the millennium.

That would mean the saved Church go through your supposed future millennium alone lol.

 

[covenantee]

The restoration of Israel defeated Amillennialism.

A congregation of antichrists defeated Amillennialism?

 

[CadyandZoe]

A congregation of antichrists defeated Amillennialism?

I find your antisemitism to be distasteful.
If you were expecting a nation of spirit-filled people then you forgot the dry bones prophecy in Ezekiel 37.
Since 1948 the bones have been gathering and forming into a body.
Later, the body will be filled with the Spirit.

 

[covenantee]

I find your antisemitism to be distasteful.
If you were expecting a nation of spirit-filled people then you forgot the dry bones prophecy in Ezekiel 37.
Since 1948 the bones have been gathering and forming into a body.
Later, the body will be filled with the Spirit.

I find your ignorance to be inexcusable.

In typical dispen delusionism, you're unable to distinguish between race and religion.

Did you know that there are Christian Semites?

Obviously not.

Tell us how many Christian Semites the Zionist antichrist allowed to immigrate to Israel in 1948.

With a link to the source.

"Later" and "will be".

The most antiScriptural overworked expressions in the dispen vocabulary.

2 Corinthians 6
2 ...Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Nope, the 'implied'... second resurrection is another one LIKE the FIRST RESURRECTION.

The first resurrection is to the dead in Christ, they rise first-1 Thessalonians 4:16

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

That would mean the saved Church go through your supposed future millennium alone lol.

Nope, a few men are determined by God to be left to repopulate the earth during the millennium.


Isaiah 24:6
Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.

 

[jeffweeder]

Nope, a few men are determined by God to be left to repopulate the earth during the millennium.


Isaiah 24:6
Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.

The few would be the chosen.
(Many are called but few are chosen.)

Is 24
16
From the ends of the earth we hear songs, “Glory and honor to the Righteous One,”
But I say, “I waste away, I waste away. Woe to me!
The treacherous deal treacherously,
Indeed, the treacherous deal very treacherously.”
17
Terror and pit [of destruction] and snare
Confront you, O inhabitant of the earth.
18
Then it will be that he who flees at the sound of terror will fall into the pit,
And he who comes up out of the pit will be caught in the snare;
For the windows of heaven are opened, and the foundations of the earth tremble.
19
The earth is broken completely apart,
The earth is split apart,
The earth is shaken violently.
20
The earth reels back and forth like a drunkard
And sways like a shack;
Its transgression lies heavily upon it,
And it will fall and not rise again.


Repopulation is not what God has in mind.

2Pet 3
10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will vanish with a [mighty and thunderous] roar, and the [material] elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and the works that are on it will be burned up.

11 Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be [in the meantime] in holy behavior [that is, in a pattern of daily life that sets you apart as a believer] and in godliness [displaying profound reverence toward our awesome God], 12 [while you earnestly] look for and await the coming of the day of God. For on this day the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the [material] elements will melt with intense heat! 13 But in accordance with His promise we expectantly await new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Repopulation is not what God has in mind.

2Pet 3
10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will vanish with a [mighty and thunderous] roar, and the [material] elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and the works that are on it will be burned up.

​

Zechariah 14

King James Version
​

14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the Lord shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.
14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.
15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.”

The above proves that some of the heathen are left on earth during the millennial reign of Christ with His saints in Jerusalem.

 

[CadyandZoe]

I find your ignorance to be inexcusable.

You were the one who unfairly accused those living in Israel of being anti-Christ. Do you compound your sin by denying your prejudice?

In typical dispen delusionism, you're unable to distinguish between race and religion.

There are two main types of Premillennialism: Historic Premillennialism and dispensational premillennialism. Your charge against me is unfounded because I gave you no reason to conclude that I am dispensational.

Following Augustine, those who believe Amillennialism have adopted his hermeneutic, supposing that the Bible should be understood allegorically rather than literally. And it was easy for them to take that stand until the reconstitution of Israel and the return of the Jewish people back to the land.

In light of 1948, the allegorical interpretation of scripture has been thrown down since the prophecies concerning Jewish aliyah have come true literally. Augustine's method of Bible interpretation is incorrect. God was speaking literally when he said that he would bring his people back to the land and circumcise their hearts.

You don't know their hearts. As I said, I understand why you can't see that. In order to believe what you see with your own eyes, you must admit you were wrong all these years.

 

[Johann]

Wrong-yes, no, interesting thread on eschatology with diverse interpretations.

J.

 

[covenantee]

You were the one who unfairly accused those living in Israel of being anti-Christ. Do you compound your sin by denying your prejudice?

Do they accept Christ? Do you compound your ignorance?

Your charge against me is unfounded because I gave you no reason to conclude that I am dispensational.

You are absolutely dispensational. Only dispensationalism, describing itself as "Christian" zionism, allies itself with the racist zionist antichrist in according any significance to 1948. Examination of historic premils such as Justin Martyr reveals that they, long before Augustine, in concert with amils, declare those in Christ alone to allegorically be "the true Israelitic race".

God was speaking literally when he said that he would bring his people back to the land and circumcise their hearts.

Christ was speaking literally when He said:

Matthew 21
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

That nation is His Church, and His Church alone:

1 Peter 2
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;