I abandoned my faith

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MA2444

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LOL

Not my topic.

Plain and simple. You learned about "tithing" from the church. They lied to you. But you bought it.
And now you claim it was God who told you. - LOL

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Oh yeah huh. I got this thread mixed up with another thread. Sorry.

Wait, where did I say God told me about tithing? I had posted a passage from Malachi ch 3.

Dont start putting words in my mouth. God has told me some things but we havent talked about tithing.

Wait! One time, I was doing a side job or maybe it was just after I had retired? And I went to help a guy with a broken furnace and I had to go get the part and on the way back from picking up the part I was thinking about how much to charge the guy. I wanted to give the guy a good deal because they were poor and even so I am poor also so it's nice to make a few bucks to cover gas and such too so I was was looking to find a nice balance in the that might be a good deed in the eyes of the Lord, make the customers happy because it was a good deal, and out a few $ in my pocket too? Everybody happy. But what is that amount? Hmmmm

So I prayed about it in the truck. I said Lord how much should I charge this guy? And the Lord answered me immediately and siad as clear as day, Dont charge him anything....
And that wasnt in my plans and made my head spin sorta as I was soaking it in. Then He said to me, You gave your life to me, right? And I said yes. And He said, then that's my business right, I own it all. So I said yes Lord. What else could I say?
 
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Wrangler

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I personally can not think of any "religion" where the founder says, "Do not put your faith in me unless I do the works of God."
You said this before. And I already asked you twice what do you make of the fact. I guess your mind does not want to go there.

Make a Blessed Day!
 
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St. SteVen

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Wait, where did I say God told me about tithing? I had posted a passage from Malachi ch 3.
LOL
So, the book of Malachi is not God's Word?

I thought you said your faith was based on the blessing (experience) you received by obeying God's command to tithe.

[
 
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St. SteVen

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Wait, where did I say God told me about tithing? I had posted a passage from Malachi ch 3.

Dont start putting words in my mouth. God has told me some things but we havent talked about tithing.
Here's what you posted earlier. Sure seems that you are claiming tithing is commanded by God.
I did it by paying tithes. And after that worked just like scripture said it would I started understanding that if you act out in faith that it has results. So I started testing the edges of my boundries in faith in other ways and got results there too.
Scripture only says one way are we allowed to test God. It was this passage here that I used as my safeguard that it would be ok!

Malachi 3:9-11
9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
So give unto Ceaser what is Ceasers and give unto God what is God's. ...
Do you question God about everything? The OT system was food but we use cash now to go buy our food. First fruits? That means Gross now. DOnt pay on your net pay on your gross. ...
They used to use food, now we use money.
God wants First Fruits. The money equivilent of first fruits is the Gross amount of your earnings. So you would tithe on the gross amount and not the net amount.
We haven't talked about tithing? - LOL

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St. SteVen

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Wait! One time, I was doing a side job or maybe it was just after I had retired? And I went to help a guy with a broken furnace and I had to go get the part and on the way back from picking up the part I was thinking about how much to charge the guy. I wanted to give the guy a good deal because they were poor and even so I am poor also so it's nice to make a few bucks to cover gas and such too so I was was looking to find a nice balance in the that might be a good deed in the eyes of the Lord, make the customers happy because it was a good deal, and out a few $ in my pocket too? Everybody happy. But what is that amount? Hmmmm
That's a good testimony.
But why are you poor if God has poured out such a blessing on you that you can't contain it?
Didn't you say you tested God? (with tithing) And now you are poor? What's wrong with this picture?

Who lied to you? Was it God, or the church?
And what about your bogus testimony of faith-proving experience through tithing?

[
 

Lambano

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All this talk about tithing reminds me of a brother I met over on KLF. His church was very strict on enforcing the tithe, and rather intrusive about finding out each congregant's income. Brother Ros and his family left that church and soon left the organized church altogether. Any mention of tithing was liable to set off a good rant.

Miss you, Ros, if you're out there somewhere.
 
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KUWN

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You said this before. And I already asked you twice what do you make of the fact. I guess your mind does not want to go there.

Make a Blessed Day!
I am sorry, Wrangler. I am drawing a blank on what fact you are talking about. Would you mind clarify your question.
 

St. SteVen

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Dont try to teach me about my my tithing and giving ok? It is a fruitless conversation for me. I give how I give and it aint really none of your beeswax.
You were happy to lecture me about it.

You don't even attend church. "... forsaking the assembling of ourselves together..." - Hebrews 10:25 KJV

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Behold

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LOL

Not my topic.

Plain and simple. You learned about "tithing" from the church. They lied to you. But you bought it.
And now you claim it was God who told you. - LOL

[

Reader,

The thing about tithing is...

Its related to money, and the fact is... you will give your money to what you love, and if you never give any of it to God, then what message are you sending Him?

Some ..... seem to want to find a way not to give, and thats a "heart" problem.

Think of it like this..

If you are a Christian, then all you have belongs to God.
You belong to God, your family, your House, your Income, your LIFE..
It all belongs to God.

So, if you have anything of substance in this material world then it belongs to God, and He is allowing you to USE IT.

Therefore, when you give MONEY into God's work.........call it "tithing".. call it "offering".. call it "being a cheerful giver" then all you are doing is giving God's money back to God.. because you LOVE God.
 
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MA2444

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LOL
So, the book of Malachi is not God's Word?

I thought you said your faith was based on the blessing (experience) you received by obeying God's command to tithe.

[

That was years ago.

Malachi is Gods word. But I know I have said that God said this or God said that to me at times but the way you said it was accusatory like...He's the guy who thinks he talks to God....

So to that I say...Don't you? WHy not?
 

MA2444

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Here's what you posted earlier. Sure seems that you are claiming tithing is commanded by God.



We haven't talked about tithing? - LOL

[

So what? You started talking about my post so I responded.

If you spent as much time on the topic as you do tangents maybe the thread could progress and be edifying?
 

MA2444

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That's a good testimony.
But why are you poor if God has poured out such a blessing on you that you can't contain it?
Didn't you say you tested God? (with tithing) And now you are poor? What's wrong with this picture?

Who lied to you? Was it God, or the church?
And what about your bogus testimony of faith-proving experience through tithing?

Whoa calm down. Take a breath. Breathe...

So are you saying that Some of of my testimonies you believe and some you dont? Lol! That's hilarious!!

You want an accounting of the blessings that God opened the floodgates of Heaven and poured upon me because I tithed?....?? So you can judge if the return was enough to satisfy you in your judgment? Get Bent! That's my business, between me and the Lord.

My bogus Tesimony of Tithing? You cant say that to me. You havent donated to me or bought my books or CD's. You didnt buy me a Jet airplane, not even a lousy Cadillac! So you dont get to complain. If you dont believe me then test the Lord yourself through tithing. I speak what I know and have seen happen. I didnt become baptised in the Holy Spirit until way after that. So you dont get your money back. That was a take it or leave it testimony.

You didnt even ask me in what way am I poor? You sure miss a lot. What's more important is that I am content in the Lord. I know, I lost you now. You speak from the world but I am not of the world, merely in it. Though I poor in money I grow rich in spirit.

He wants me to to tell him about when the Lord gave me a free house! Sorry Brother, but you dont get to hear about that one, lol. Just for being snotty so early.
 

MA2444

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You were happy to lecture me about it.

You don't even attend church. "... forsaking the assembling of ourselves together..." - Hebrews 10:25 KJV

[

We can talk about tithing, but this isnt really the thread for it. I'm always happy to share the experiences that take place while walking with the Lord. Scripture instructs us to do that.

I dot attend church locally. I have been to most of them! But am members nowhere. I know that I have been forsaking the the assemblage with other believers but...this aint the place to go into all that!

But! I would bet $$ right nowthat you dont act in church the way you act here...!!

Why is that? This is the closest to fellowshipping with Believers that I get. I get my teaching online and offline study, and get my worship music piped in too. And I have figured it out where I am lacking...

Why does God want for us to not forsake assembling ourselves together in His name?....??

I believe it must be that when we come together and worship the Lord with one voice all at the same time....that it sounds better to him than one Believer singing or worshipping alone. There's prolly some sort of spiritual progression of the amount of love and worship the Father feels from us.

That's why corporate fasts are more powerful than single fasts! They used to cal all of Israel to fast! Everyone! EVen the animals too! Wow.
 
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lforrest

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So what evidence did Abraham have when he left his father's House? Wasn't it just a voice in his head? This faith pleased God and was attributed to Abraham as righteousness.

What did Jesus call his generation for seeking signs? "Wicked and adulterous."
 
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St. SteVen

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So what evidence did Abraham have when he left his father's House?
I was reminded of the comment a Pastor made in a sermon about this.
When Abram set off to go as God had commanded him, there was open desert in every direction.
He just started walking and God directed him.

Hebrews 11:8 NIV
By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance,
obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going.

[
 

Bruce-Leiter

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Jesus actually did supernatural miracles to the satisfaction of his audience. For example, when asked by the disciples of John the Baptist whether or not he, Jesus, was the long-awaited Messiah, Jesus told John’s disciples to return to John with the following message: The lame walk; the dead are resurrected. Nobody is denying this! All these miracles are being performed in public, open to objective verification by any skeptic.

Why is that important? And where’s the unexpected turn?

It was not only that Jesus performed miracles, but two other conditions had to be met. First, he had to do specific miracles that the Old Testament prophets said the Messiah would do. Second, and completely out of his control, he had to do these miracles at that exact moment in human history.

If you are not, you ought to be surprised by that answer. It’s not something you read every day, if ever. But keep this in mind: the Old Testament prophet Daniel foretold the exact week in human history in which the Messiah would die, and that moment had to occur within weeks of the time Jesus was doing his miracles! Had Jesus not died on the very week he did, all bets were off. Jesus would have been a fraud, regardless of his unexplainable miracles.

You see, folks, it’s not just that Jesus did miracles; it’s that he did predicted (very specific) miracles, miracles that were predicted literally hundreds of years before he was born. It’s not just that he did miracles that were subject to verification by the skeptics of his day; it’s that he demanded that nobody believe in him unless he did such miracles as could be verified. It’s not just that he did all this; it’s that he did all these predicted things WHEN he did them. (Miracles performed after the first century have no divine authority or sanction.)

And now, this story takes yet another unexpected turn. And I mean unexpected.

The challenge Jesus made to those skeptics of his day is as much open to verification today as then. Anyone is free to examine the evidence. And if one is not absolutely convinced that Jesus was who he claimed to be, then on the authority of the word of God I say, “Do not believe him.” He will not hold you liable. All of which means, Jesus insists that you accept his claims, not on faith, but on objective, verifiable evidence.

Let me reiterate what I said earlier. Christianity is not based on religious faith. Religious faith has no place in Christianity. And why is that? Because Christianity must remain open to objective verification to all skeptics, and skeptics are not expected to have any kind of faith BEFORE they examine the evidence! And further, Christian faith is the opposite of religious faith. If you want to believe some religion on faith, join the Muslims or Mormons, or even the Hindus. But if you want to know the truth, examine the objective evidence. Don’t believe anything that can not be proven! (Jesus never asked anyone to have faith in him! I defy anyone to show me anywhere in Scripture where Jesus asked someone to have religious faith in him. Remember, Jesus demanded that nobody believe him unless he could prove himself.)

Some people actually do turn to Christianity on the basis of religious faith. I did. But I have long since abandoned that. Yes, you can now see what I mean when I say that I have abandoned my faith in Christ. I have abandoned my faith in Christ and exchanged it for proof. After all, the statement Jesus made, that nobody was to believe him unless he could prove his claims, applies to me. To believe in anyone or anything before examining the evidence takes religious faith, the kind of faith every religion stands of falls on. But only Christ requires us to examine the evidence, and to have biblical faith in him if he can prove himself. As strange as this may sound, biblical faith corresponds to our English word “proof.” (In Acts 17:35 it is actually translated “proof.”)

If you are a Christian and base your belief in Christ on something other than the objective, verifiable evidence, then obey the command of Jesus himself and stop that! You are no different than a Muslim or Mormon, or New Age nut.

With every ounce of creativity you can muster, try to imagine Mohammed or Joseph Smith, or any religious leader saying, “Do not believe me, unless I perform (specific, predicted) miracles from God.” Biblically, no one can. Why? Because they are all disqualified. Why? Because the only messenger God authenticated had to have lived in the first century per the Old Testament predictions! There is only one individual who qualifies.
Until I was 16 years old, I was a pragmatist and the son of an unbelieving pragmatist. That is, I believed in my own experience, just like my dad's faith, to guide my life.

Many people have faith in their reason, experience, or emotions to guide their lives.

When my believing mother dragged me to a Baptist church, I was confronted with the claims of Jesus in the Bible. So, I investigated those claims. The many Old Testament prophecies and Jesus' miracles that are reported in the New Testament were impressive, but the whole question of the evidence boiled down to the resurrection of Jesus.

If Jesus' permanent resurrection was a true, historical event, that same God could easily create the universe and do all those other amazing things reported in the Bible.

In my study, I discovered that the whole Jewish nation was eagerly looking forward to the Messiah's coming to kick the Roman occupiers out of Palestine and take over its rulership. Jesus' own disciples thought that he was that same Messiah.

However, when he was given the death penalty and died a criminal's death, they were crushed with the loss of their leader.

Then, parts of three days later, something happened to them that enabled them to be willing to suffer three groups' persecution (Jews, Greeks, and Romans) and to die carrying their testimonies to the grave. They never gave up their stories that they had seen and touched Jesus alive from the dead.

You can't get better witnesses to historical events than people who are willing to suffer and die to hold onto such stories.

Therefore, God used historical witnesses to convince me that he is real, Jesus is who he says he is, and the Bible is true history.

Now, 66 years later, God is still dealing with me through his gift of faith in Jesus and the historical fact of his resurrection, as the eyewitnesses have shown. Whenever I doubt God, I return to that firm foundation of a true, historical event to support me.
 

Behold

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How do you know that Christianity is based on faith?

Its because "faith is the substance of things HOPED FOR.... the EVIDENCE of things..........Not SEEN".

In other words, Christianity requires believing in what you can't see., as that is FAITH In Christ.

And when you do believe, and you give God YOUR faith....in Christ, then God takes YOUR FAITH, and accepts it, and then applies the Eternal Salvation that is "IN CHRIST">.. unto you.
 

St. SteVen

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How do you know that Christianity is based on faith?

Its because "faith is the substance of things HOPED FOR.... the EVIDENCE of things..........Not SEEN".

In other words, Christianity requires believing in what you can't see., as that is FAITH In Christ.

And when you do believe, and you give God YOUR faith....in Christ, then God takes YOUR FAITH, and accepts it, and then applies the Eternal Salvation that is "IN CHRIST">.. unto you.
Did you bother to read the OP?

Or is this just a knee-jerk over-reaction to the title?

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mailmandan

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I appreciate your asking this question for clarification. Yes I am a Christian. My point in the post was to say I abandoned a "leap in the dark" faith for an evidentiary faith, one based on the evidence. Before that, I didn't have enough information to know what KINDS of faith there were. I probably just had the leap in the dark faith when I first believe in Christ as my Savior. After years of study I have found that there is a KIND of faith known as evidentiary faith. This is the one Christ refers to in GJohn 10.37, 38

Glad to get that clarification out of the way
Can you please explain to me exactly how you became a Christian and what type of faith did you previously have in Jesus that you no longer have?