I abandoned my faith

[lforrest]

Your distinction between religious faith and biblical faith is perhaps a source of contention. Also, evidentiary faith makes no sense in light of Hebrews 11:1

" Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

As you describe different kinds of faith, there is already a biblical concept God introduced that should be applied in a greater context. The concept of witnesses. Deuteronomy 19:15 "One witness is not enough to convict anyone accused of any crime or offense they may have committed. A matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses."

Jesus always had two, even three or more witnesses for what he said. The OT prophets were a witness. The miracles were a witness. And the Holy Spirit was witness. All was done publicly for others to see. There was an unbroken chain of multiple sources of evidence.

Nevertheless many Jews ignored the signs. The evidence above was not enough. But this is human nature, you will find it exceedingly difficult to convince someone of something they don't want to believe. Likewise people readily believe what is beneficial to them.

The supposed sons of Ishmael readily believed Mohammed. They believed for the envy of the Jews who claimed Abraham's birthright. He believed one angel and had no other evidence.

The same can be applied to false prophets. Their false prophecy will not have double confirmation.

In a world where demons dwell and seek to destroy us through deception, one must be wise to their tactics and be sceptical of anything that is spiritualist and non biblical.

The bible itself was written by inspiration of the Holy Spirit through the words of prophets. When their prophecy came true that was the double confirmation. When they were right time and again, it creates trust in their ability to prophecy truthfully.

 

[KUWN]

I got in trouble writing this short article, and I ran across a quote I wanted to give that basically tells what I was trying to say. The quote is from Dr Ron Rhodes from Dallas Theological Seminary. It says:

"Evidence-based faith has been replaced by experience-based faith."

Most start off with experienced-based faith, but that is the view of a new believer, a babe in Christ. Over the years we are admonished to study the word to grow in our faith until it becomes an evidence-based faith. I hope that puts this article in a better light than I put it in.

 

[KUWN]

If God called you as one of his own I think this much is sure. You may not longe believe in God. However, he shall always believe in you.

If called, I think this is just part of your journey in the light God has carved out especially for you.

Peace.

If you are going to comment on one of my posts, at least read the whole thing.

 

[Behold]

Just so I’m not misunderstood, I would like to give some background information on religion

Christianity is not a "religion".
So, you've misunderstood this...

See, CHRISTianity is God causing the birth of "God manifested in the Flesh", inside a virgin's womb.
And this "Word became flesh, and dwelt among us", is the same "WORD" who "was God" in John 1.

Read John 1:10 and find Him being described.

See that?
That is not a Religion.
That is Deity, who has come down to perform a Sacrifice of Himself, upon a Cross, so that by His "one time eternal Sacrifice"", all Sin of all people can be forgiven,... 2 Corinthians 5:19..... and they can be restored to spiritual union with God, forever, as Adam had it before he ruined this for Himself.

So, you have 2nd Adam, who is Jesus, come down from Heaven, born of a Virgin, to restore to YOU, eternal spiritual relation with God, as 1st Adam, had it, before he threw it away.
And this time, based on HOW Jesus achieved this re-connection to God, by birth... by spiritual Birth of the BELIEVER..... THIS "new creation in Christ'.....can't be ended by some deed you do, or some faith crisis you have, or by some mental deception you are under.

 

[Wrangler]

Rather than providing objective evidence for their truth claims, religious fanatics simply retreat to the impenetrable defense of “we don’t need evidence; we have faith.”

See my threads on The Evidence to be Seen.

Evidence To Be Seen

We should not and need not abandon the field of evidence to the lost enemies of our Lord. See Psalm 19. In that thread, I made the following points. While faith is the evidence of things unseen, there is evidence to be seen. (In this thread, I want to compile the evidence.) Are you required to...

www.christianityboard.com

Evidence To Be Seen - Part 2, In Scripture

While folks like @Behold lean heavily on faith and against works, James does talk about the union of faith and works in 2:18. The virtue of works is the objective evidence of its existence. While God rested on the 7th Day, we are not deists. God continues to work, to show his faithfulness. My...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[Wrangler]

This shows that the KIND OF faith Jesus requires is based on evidence, something no other religious founder could utter."

What do you make of this fact?

 

[Wrangler]

Before that, I didn't have enough information to know what KINDS of faith there were. I probably just had the leap in the dark faith when I first believe in Christ as my Savior. After years of study I have found that there is a KIND of faith known as evidentiary faith. This is the one Christ refers to in GJohn 10.37, 38

Let's step back. The genus faith, stands in comparison to knowledge. Yes, there is evidence to be seen. However, our Creator wants a bolder life than acting only on what we know; he wants us to WALK (not leap) in faith in him personally.

If you examine Original Sin, you'll see it juxtaposed knowledge with faith. There was the Tree of Knowledge and the other tree. God wanted us to choose the tree of live in faith over knowledge. You might want to consider it a moral imperative.

We don't know what the day brings but we know who brings the day! What is the alternative to faith. hopelessness? It's a mighty small world when you limit it to what one human being knows and is capable of doing.

 

[Behold]

Here’s a real shocker, not that anyone should care, but after all these years, I have abandoned my faith in Christ.

A question for you.. @KUWN

Were you water baptized as your idea of Salvation?
Or were you born again and understand what that means?

 

[St. SteVen]

As strange as this may sound, biblical faith corresponds to our English word “proof.” (In Acts 17:35 it is actually translated “proof.”)

From post #2, third to last paragraph.
Oops. Acts chapter 17 has only 34 verses. (send help)

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[St. SteVen]

Soo...why do you still list yourself as a Christian?

You need to READ the whole OP. Posts #1 and #2.

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[Behold]

Soo...why do you still list yourself as a Christian?

Its because God would always consider them a Christian..., if they were truly born again.

See, a faith crisis you have after you are born again, has no impact on your "new birth".. "new creation in Christ' which means it has no bearing on your Salvation.
It only has bearing on your behavior, and your thinking process.

 

[St. SteVen]

I have never "listed" myself as a Christian, but I am. However, your question tells me you either didn't read my post or understand it.

I understand what you are saying.
Way too many forum member reply to topic titles instead of reading the OP.

A summary statement may clear up these misunderstandings.

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[St. SteVen]

@KUWN
Here's a question: How did you satisfy your need to confirm an evidence-based faith?

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[KUWN]

@KUWN
Here's a question: How did you satisfy your need to confirm an evidence-based faith?

[

The Christian apologist will generally use fulfilled prophesy as the starting point. There is no human explanation for the number of prophecies that were fulfilled at the first coming of Christ. About 100 prophecies were given hundreds of years before Christ was even born. Some Liberals try to say that Daniel wrote in 200 BC, but that is highly unlikely. either way, that is still prophecy.

I prefer the prophecy of Daniel, who prophesied the TIME Christ would have to come and die hundreds of years in advance. I go with Dr. Hoehner's date of Christ dying April 3, 33 AD. One or two other dates are possible, but they all confirm the supernatural ability of Daniel to prophesy the time of Christ's death.

 

[KUWN]

Christianity is not a "religion".
So, you've misunderstood this...

See, CHRISTianity is God causing the birth of "God manifested in the Flesh", inside a virgin's womb.
And this "Word became flesh, and dwelt among us", is the same "WORD" who "was God" in John 1.

Read John 1:10 and find Him being described.

See that?
That is not a Religion.
That is Deity, who has come down to perform a Sacrifice of Himself, upon a Cross, so that by His "one time eternal Sacrifice"", all Sin of all people can be forgiven,... 2 Corinthians 5:19..... and they can be restored to spiritual union with God, forever, as Adam had it before he ruined this for Himself.

So, you have 2nd Adam, who is Jesus, come down from Heaven, born of a Virgin, to restore to YOU, eternal spiritual relation with God, as 1st Adam, had it, before he threw it away.
And this time, based on HOW Jesus achieved this re-connection to God, by birth... by spiritual Birth of the BELIEVER..... THIS "new creation in Christ'.....can't be ended by some deed you do, or some faith crisis you have, or by some mental deception you are under.

I have heard this a million times before. You have to redefine religion first before you make such a claim.

 

[KUWN]

What do you make of this fact?

What fact? Your quote?

This may be helpful for you. The Shema is recorded in Deut 6.4, it reads,

"Listen, Israel, the LORD is our God, the LORD is one."

When dealing with the Trinity, you have to combine a lot of verses together. This one in Deut is important. What I want to bring to your attention is the last word above in Deut 6.4, the word is "one." Do you know what "one" means. It is the Hebrew word echad. It is the same word used in Genesis when we are told that Adam and Eve are one. The one is not always numerical. Adam and Eve numerically were TWO, yet the Bible says they are ONE.

This may not be that helpful because discussing the Trinity requires more time than this forum allows. And I have found out the hard way that if you post an article that is a little long, nobody reads it, but maybe one or two.

 

[KUWN]

A question for you.. @KUWN

Were you water baptized as your idea of Salvation?
Or were you born again and understand what that means?

Something seems wrong with these question. I think I will stay clear of them. Sorry

 

[Wrangler]

What fact? Your quote?

No. I quoted you.

This shows that the KIND OF faith Jesus requires is based on evidence, something no other religious founder could utter."

What do you make of the fact that “the KIND OF faith Jesus requires is based on evidence, something no other religious founder could utter?”

 

[St. SteVen]

The Christian apologist will generally use fulfilled prophesy as the starting point. There is no human explanation for the number of prophecies that were fulfilled at the first coming of Christ. About 100 prophecies were given hundreds of years before Christ was even born. Some Liberals try to say that Daniel wrote in 200 BC, but that is highly unlikely. either way, that is still prophecy.

I prefer the prophecy of Daniel, who prophesied the TIME Christ would have to come and die hundreds of years in advance. I go with Dr. Hoehner's date of Christ dying April 3, 33 AD. One or two other dates are possible, but they all confirm the supernatural ability of Daniel to prophesy the time of Christ's death.

Good, thanks.
So historians like Josephus filled in the evidence in the time of Christ? (anyone else?)

[

 

[KUWN]

No. I quoted you.

What do you make of the fact that “the KIND OF faith Jesus requires is based on evidence, something no other religious founder could utter?”

I personally can not think of any "religion" where the founder says, "Do not put your faith in me unless I do the works of God." Islam is based on faith in Mohammad's claim that an angel gave him new revelation, revelation that contradicts the Bible. There is no evidence to this. In fact, Mohammad was asked to do a miracle to validate his new religion, he declined and said his evidence is the Qur'an. There certainly is nothing supernatural about the Qur'an. Some say that Mohammad was illiterate and yet he wrote the Qur'an. That is just another faith proposition.