I abandoned my faith

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KUWN

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Here’s a real shocker, not that anyone should care, but after all these years, I have abandoned my faith in Christ. True, life has been unbearable for me over the last 13 or so years. You might even say unfair. There has not been one day over this time that I haven’t prayed that God would allow me to die… but that’s not the reason I discarded my faith. Actually, this desertion of my faith took place quite some time ago. And I really have no particular reason as to why I’m going public with it now.

Just so I’m not misunderstood, I would like to give some background information on religion that I believe is not widely known. I’m not trying to influence others to abandon their faith; that’s not my job. But I am trying to expose something that all religions must admit, or live in denial of.

As I see it, religions exist to answer the mother lode of all questions: How do we get into heaven, assuming there is one? No matter which religion you choose, the answer will ultimately reduce to this: faith. Religious faith is the panacea of all eternal hopes. Yet not one religion can provide any objective, verifiable evidence that proves they are the right religion, not Muslims, not Hindus, not a one.

It was this realization that made me take a closer look at Christianity. Working with the understanding that all religions operated on the basis of faith, I had to ask myself obvious questions: Why is Christianity any different? Is it? It was my passionate pursuit for an answer to this nagging question that forced me to abandon my faith. Let me shift my focus from religion to religious faith.

It may come as a surprise to most to know that Christianity is not based on faith; it’s the only “religion” that can make that claim. Faith, and by faith, I mean “religious faith,” is the ace trump of all religions. Rather than providing objective evidence for their truth claims, religious fanatics simply retreat to the impenetrable defense of “we don’t need evidence; we have faith.” In other words, religion is not open to rational discourse or scientific investigation. As a self-imposed limitation then, all religions are based on speculation, wishful thinking, or are anti-rational.

One of the most important discoveries I made during my search for answers was: all religions require their followers to accept their fundamental, core beliefs by faith, but not just any faith, faith in unverifiable claims. This proved true in every instance, with every religion, except one. With Christianity, such foolish faith, which I now call it, is to be rejected as speculative and sheer nonsense. Christianity made no claims to being founded on religious faith, nor does it require, although it allows it, that its members accept the claims of Christ by faith.

For example, why do I say Islam (since it is a religion) is based on faith in “unverifiable claims?” Here’s why: because Mohammed’s claim to have been visited by Gabriel the angel with a message from God is not open to verification. The same situation obtains with Mormonism as well. Neither of these religious founders provided their followers with objective verification of their claims, so all one is left to do is to accept their claims by faith, or of course reject them.

This truth became an all-consuming preoccupation with me for quite a while. I simply couldn’t get this out of my mind. All religions, I kept thinking, all religions are based on religious faith… all but one that is. Christianity never claimed to be based on religious faith. But why? The answer has to do with the critical distinction between religious faith and biblical faith.

Unless the object of one’s faith is subject to verification, a verification even open to skeptics, it is not biblical faith. Jesus never asked anyone to have faith in him!!! Please reread that last sentence. Please! In case you are in a hurry, let me repeat it again. Jesus never asked anyone to have faith in him!!! Don’t ever forget that. Such a request would have been rightfully dismissed by any thinking person of his day, not only would be rejected, but ought to be rejected.

All religions before and after Jesus invariably subscribe to one dominating, universal principle: “salvation” (whatever they conceive that to be) is based on faith. But in every religion it will be discovered that religious faith presents itself as biblical faith. But the two are at polar opposite ends of credibility.

When Christ denied this universal, religious phenomenon, I was sure I was onto something. Christ made a statement that had never been said before or after. It is found throughout the Gospels, but most directly stated by Christ in John 10:37

“If I do not perform the works of my Father (God), do not believe me.”

The concept changed religion as we know it.

This seems so painfully simple as to need no further comment, but it may prove beneficial to make a few peripheral remarks.

Notice that Jesus demanded that people NOT believe him, unless he could first demonstrate to them that he was sent from God. And how does one do that? Well, not on the basis of religious faith! Otherwise, I could ask people to believe in me with equal validity as Christ!

In fact, Mohammed (founder of Islam) and Joseph Smith (founder of Mormonism) did exactly that. Their religions are based on unverifiable claims. Neither of these guys could say, “Do not believe me unless I perform the works of God.” Why? They would have been immediately exposed as frauds. (Mohammed was asked to perform miracles to vindicate himself, but he declined to do so, leaving only the “supernatural” Qur’an as his only “miracle.” Unfortunately, the Qur’an is available to the public and therefore open to investigation. That is, its claim of being supernatural is easily dismissed.)

So why did Jesus put himself in such a bind? This is where the story takes an unexpected turn.

continued...
 

KUWN

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Jesus actually did supernatural miracles to the satisfaction of his audience. For example, when asked by the disciples of John the Baptist whether or not he, Jesus, was the long-awaited Messiah, Jesus told John’s disciples to return to John with the following message: The lame walk; the dead are resurrected. Nobody is denying this! All these miracles are being performed in public, open to objective verification by any skeptic.

Why is that important? And where’s the unexpected turn?

It was not only that Jesus performed miracles, but two other conditions had to be met. First, he had to do specific miracles that the Old Testament prophets said the Messiah would do. Second, and completely out of his control, he had to do these miracles at that exact moment in human history.

If you are not, you ought to be surprised by that answer. It’s not something you read every day, if ever. But keep this in mind: the Old Testament prophet Daniel foretold the exact week in human history in which the Messiah would die, and that moment had to occur within weeks of the time Jesus was doing his miracles! Had Jesus not died on the very week he did, all bets were off. Jesus would have been a fraud, regardless of his unexplainable miracles.

You see, folks, it’s not just that Jesus did miracles; it’s that he did predicted (very specific) miracles, miracles that were predicted literally hundreds of years before he was born. It’s not just that he did miracles that were subject to verification by the skeptics of his day; it’s that he demanded that nobody believe in him unless he did such miracles as could be verified. It’s not just that he did all this; it’s that he did all these predicted things WHEN he did them. (Miracles performed after the first century have no divine authority or sanction.)

And now, this story takes yet another unexpected turn. And I mean unexpected.

The challenge Jesus made to those skeptics of his day is as much open to verification today as then. Anyone is free to examine the evidence. And if one is not absolutely convinced that Jesus was who he claimed to be, then on the authority of the word of God I say, “Do not believe him.” He will not hold you liable. All of which means, Jesus insists that you accept his claims, not on faith, but on objective, verifiable evidence.

Let me reiterate what I said earlier. Christianity is not based on religious faith. Religious faith has no place in Christianity. And why is that? Because Christianity must remain open to objective verification to all skeptics, and skeptics are not expected to have any kind of faith BEFORE they examine the evidence! And further, Christian faith is the opposite of religious faith. If you want to believe some religion on faith, join the Muslims or Mormons, or even the Hindus. But if you want to know the truth, examine the objective evidence. Don’t believe anything that can not be proven! (Jesus never asked anyone to have faith in him! I defy anyone to show me anywhere in Scripture where Jesus asked someone to have religious faith in him. Remember, Jesus demanded that nobody believe him unless he could prove himself.)

Some people actually do turn to Christianity on the basis of religious faith. I did. But I have long since abandoned that. Yes, you can now see what I mean when I say that I have abandoned my faith in Christ. I have abandoned my faith in Christ and exchanged it for proof. After all, the statement Jesus made, that nobody was to believe him unless he could prove his claims, applies to me. To believe in anyone or anything before examining the evidence takes religious faith, the kind of faith every religion stands of falls on. But only Christ requires us to examine the evidence, and to have biblical faith in him if he can prove himself. As strange as this may sound, biblical faith corresponds to our English word “proof.” (In Acts 17:35 it is actually translated “proof.”)

If you are a Christian and base your belief in Christ on something other than the objective, verifiable evidence, then obey the command of Jesus himself and stop that! You are no different than a Muslim or Mormon, or New Age nut.

With every ounce of creativity you can muster, try to imagine Mohammed or Joseph Smith, or any religious leader saying, “Do not believe me, unless I perform (specific, predicted) miracles from God.” Biblically, no one can. Why? Because they are all disqualified. Why? Because the only messenger God authenticated had to have lived in the first century per the Old Testament predictions! There is only one individual who qualifies.
 
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Debp

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25Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. 26And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
John 11:25-26


47Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life. 48I am the bread of life.
John 6:47-48


27Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.”

28And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

29Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
John 20:27-29
 

SavedInHim

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I abandoned my faith.
Sorry to hear it. I doubt anything I say will change your mind so all I will say is I do hope you change your mind at some point. The Lord won't give up on you and neither do I.
 

MA2444

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I have never "listed" myself as a Christian, but I am. However, your question tells me you either didn't read my post or understand it.

Your little thing that shows your name & avatar has your join date, location, Christian and so forth and it still says Christian. If you make the statement that you gave up your faith in Christ then...what are we to think?

Your right, I didnt read your big long post after that. I thought I had read all I really needed to know and I'm not looking rabbit trails. SO now are you sayig that you went on to describe how you really do have faith in Jesus?

That's weird to do that if your a Christian in my mind. So unequivically, are you a Christian or not? DO you have faith in Jesus or not?
 

TLHKAJ

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GJohn 10.37
John 10:37-38
[37]If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
[38]But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

You left out the next verse. The Greek word translated "believe" in verse 38 actually means "to put trust in, or to have faith." It also is used in other verses, translated as "believe" but means "to have faith."

Greek: πιστεύω
Transliteration: pisteuō
Pronunciation: pist-yoo'-o
Definition: From G4102; to have faith (in upon or with respect to a person or thing) that is credit; by implication to entrust (especially one´ s spiritual well being to Christ): - believe (-r) commit (to trust) put in trust with.
KJV Usage: believe (239x), commit unto (4x), commit to (one's) trust (1x), be committed unto (1x), be put in trust with (1x), be commit to one's trust (1x), believer (1x).
Occurs: 264

John 14:1
[1]Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

John 6:29
[29]Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Romans 10:17
[17]So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Hebrews 11:6
[6]But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
 

KUWN

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John 10:37-38
[37]If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
[38]But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

You left out the next verse. The Greek word translated "believe" in verse 38 actually means "to put trust in, or to have faith." It also is used in other verses, translated as "believe" but means "to have faith."

Greek: πιστεύω
Transliteration: pisteuō
Pronunciation: pist-yoo'-o
Definition: From G4102; to have faith (in upon or with respect to a person or thing) that is credit; by implication to entrust (especially one´ s spiritual well being to Christ): - believe (-r) commit (to trust) put in trust with.
KJV Usage: believe (239x), commit unto (4x), commit to (one's) trust (1x), be committed unto (1x), be put in trust with (1x), be commit to one's trust (1x), believer (1x).
Occurs: 264

John 14:1
[1]Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

John 6:29
[29]Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Romans 10:17
[17]So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Hebrews 11:6
[6]But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Yes, verse 38 could have been added to show that Jesus also said "... if you don't believe me, at least believe the works of my Father." The whole point I am making is that Jesus is the only religious founder who could say, "If I do not do the works of my Father, do not put your faith in me." This shows that the KIND OF faith Jesus requires is based on evidence, something no other religious founder could utter."

Another point to bring out is the passage in Romans 10.17. There the faith that the NT talks about is not the kind of faith that a Muslim has. Remember, the faith that God requires must be preceded by the word of God, not Mohammad. It is a very specific faith.
 
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Rockerduck

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Your pride is in the way of Christ's gift of salvation. The hymn "I surrender all" is that basis. You pray to Jesus to save you, and you have to admit you are a sinner, and you are nothing. When you heart is for Jesus, He will save you. The parable of the Pearl of a great price. says, you find a treasure (salvation) and you'll pay anything to get that treasure. Can you surrender all to receive that treasure?
 

Matthias

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Christianity is, historically speaking, a broad spectrum. I’m not so much interested in faith in Christianity as I am in faith in the Christ. The former is negotiable, the latter is not.
 
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marks

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Jesus never asked anyone to have faith in him!!!
Mark 1:14-15 KJV
14) Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
15) And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Actually, Jesus preached the Gospel of the kingdom of God, and commanded the people both repent and believe that Gospel.

As I see it, religions exist to answer the mother lode of all questions: How do we get into heaven, assuming there is one?
For me, the question was, how did we get here, and what is all this we call life, and the world?

My answer came through the Bible's prophecies. I'd read enough of other books that purported to teach spiritual or mystical things (hindu/hopi/new age/whatever) to know the difference once I became aquainted with the Bible's prophecies. That let me know this book in particular came from outside our space/time continuum, as it accurately showed the world I live in, from 1,000's of years ago. There was nothing else like it, so I knew I had to start obeying Jesus.

God certainly does offer proof!

Much love!
 
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KUWN

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Your little thing that shows your name & avatar has your join date, location, Christian and so forth and it still says Christian. If you make the statement that you gave up your faith in Christ then...what are we to think?

Your right, I didnt read your big long post after that. I thought I had read all I really needed to know and I'm not looking rabbit trails. SO now are you sayig that you went on to describe how you really do have faith in Jesus?

That's weird to do that if your a Christian in my mind. So unequivically, are you a Christian or not? DO you have faith in Jesus or not?

I appreciate your asking this question for clarification. Yes I am a Christian. My point in the post was to say I abandoned a "leap in the dark" faith for an evidentiary faith, one based on the evidence. Before that, I didn't have enough information to know what KINDS of faith there were. I probably just had the leap in the dark faith when I first believe in Christ as my Savior. After years of study I have found that there is a KIND of faith known as evidentiary faith. This is the one Christ refers to in GJohn 10.37, 38

Glad to get that clarification out of the way
 

MA2444

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I appreciate your asking this question for clarification. Yes I am a Christian. My point in the post was to say I abandoned a "leap in the dark" faith for an evidentiary faith, one based on the evidence. Before that, I didn't have enough information to know what KINDS of faith there were. I probably just had the leap in the dark faith when I first believe in Christ as my Savior. After years of study I have found that there is a KIND of faith known as evidentiary faith. This is the one Christ refers to in GJohn 10.37, 38

Glad to get that clarification out of the way

Would you like a different perspective?

When my kids were still toddler size I;d be in putting them to bed and one kid was sitting on the top bunk bed and all of a sudden withour warning he throws himself off of the bed into the air towards me! I did catch him and boy, he just thought that was hilarious, so it became a thing for them to do!

Those kids would fling themselves off the yop bunk with abandon. With total confidence that I would catch them! There wasnt any ok dad here I go. I never did drop one and that's good, but I couldnt hardly hardly step into their room anymore without them maybe flinging themselves into the air!

Now that's a leap of faith. Those kids had faith in me! Perhaps more than I did! Now I've been paying attention to life and especially now since I began walking with the Lord. And from what I can tell, one cant use evidentery faith with the Lord and see results. It has to be like a child like faith and you dont believe it because you see it because we are not to look to the seen, but to the unseen, and the Lord has done so much for me that it's incredible. I have seen what faith in action can do. Oh I didnt understand anything that was going on, I just trusted the Lord. And the Lord seems to like being all Twilight Zone with us, I dont know why. He has said to do the weirdest things and you cant understand why? He doesnt give out proof first, He just does what He's going to do and you trust and then after, you see what took place and go wow what was that all about?! But it's always a blessing and He always gives me a confirmation that this was Him...

So it's like the little girl said in Miracle on 34th st....Seeing isnt Believing, Believeing is seeing. Eh?

I could share some different testimonies with you if you want? Evidenertey belief is ok and they have more evidence than ever now. The dig up something new every day. But that's only one side of spirituality and interacting with the Lord.

2 Corinthians 4:18
18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal..../KJV

Those are instructions to us on how to live in the material world. God wont hand you any hard proof that you can take to a lab and repeat, lol. But you get confirmation so you get to know in every fiber of your being that, this is real.
 
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MA2444

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I abandoned a "leap in the dark" faith for an evidentiary faith, one based on the evidence.

You have to have a leap in the dark faith or you wont be be successful most likely? It started accidently with me.

You know how scripture says, you have not because you ask not?
The Lord answered a prayer for me one day...because I didnt say the prayer? (Twilight Zone!)

Actually this is a 3 in one testimony but I'll only recont one portion to keep it succinct. I ran out of coffee and my friend that I hadnt seen in 2 years had called and wanted to stop by and vist. Sure, come on! And then I went up for a cup of coffee and it was the last of the pot so I made it and then I started to put on another pot of coffee so I could offer coffee to my company that was coming. But I only had enough to make 1/2 pot. I made it but I knew that I'd have that drank before he even gets there. So I was out of coffee and wouldnt even be able to play host or anything. I didnt even have any money to run up and grab some because I'm self employed and it was my slow time of the year. But I sure where my sustenance comes from so I prepared to pray to the Lord!

Oh Lord given me some work, help me Lord I need groceries the bill is due and all that, we've all been there, right? But before I could pray, the scripture popped into my head, the one about He knows our needs before we ask Him, and the other scripture worry not about what you will eat or drink or wear for the Lord is faithful...I chewed on that for a moment and then thought, we that means I dont have to pray for that. The Lord knows. So I put it out of mind. Somethings always happens, last minute. Right? I've seen it happen over and over again.

So I knew I would be ok, it just looked like my company would be drinking ice water, lol. SO I was a little disappointed but hey I'll live through it. And I kid you not, within less than 30 minutes there was a 2 pound bag of coffee knocking on my door! Not my cheap Folgers brand eith, no sir! It was some sort of gourmet Hawaiiian coffee beans. I had never had it before but it was delicious!

You see, the Delivery boy that the Lord used to deliver my coffee to me was (Twilight Zone!) my friend who was coming to visit me. It was him when he knocked on the door and the first thing he did was hand me the coffee! I did not tell him I was out of coffee. He had no way of knowing. Over time I figured it all out. You have not because you ask not, but even though I did not ask for it, He delivered it to me because I thought of the scriptures and decided to not pray about it (because it says I dont have to for food and drink!) and I just stood on what the word of God says...and that's faith, so the Lord jumped right on it!

It came to the door at the exact moment I had just poured the very last of mine, so it was here right on time to make a fresh pot. (God knows I own a coffee grinder, lol). I have no evidence that this happened, none whatsoever. I think most people dont realize it but there is no such thing as coincidences. There is only God-incidences. It sounds ridiculous and hard to believe that the Creator of the entire Universe...delivered me coffee to my door! Who am I? I am nobody! Why would God deliver coffee to my door? Because I stood in faith on His word in faith and trust that it was true and that's why I never prayed for it. But the Lord could see my heart and knew I wanted to be able to serve my guest a cup of coffee...so He did deliver it to me right away! Praise the Lord! That's the coolest thing that God has ever done for me! Coffee! He's done bigger things for me but this was soo cool!

Do I expect to you to beieve it? I dunno, prolly not but that's ok I understand how far fetched it sounds! But I'm not trying to sell you books or CD's and I dont ask for donations, so I have no reason to lie about it. That happened and is true. I know it in the very core of my being. Jesus jumps on acts of faith! That's His job! It's the blind faith though, you see? Having faith and trust in the unseen.

I know how you can get yourself some personal evidence. It wont be archeological lol. Scripture says if we test him with tithes watch and see how He will open the flood gates of heaven and pour blessings upon you! I did this too. I was still married so I had to do it on the sly (Yikes). We could not afford to pay tithes. Wife, kids, bills, am I stupid?! Lol
but I did it anyway to test God. And you know what I found out? I found out that I cant Not afford to pay tithes! I cant prove it with evidence, but I know it works. You should try that. That is all true.
 
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Debp

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I appreciate your asking this question for clarification. Yes I am a Christian. My point in the post was to say I abandoned a "leap in the dark" faith for an evidentiary faith, one based on the evidence. Before that, I didn't have enough information to know what KINDS of faith there were. I probably just had the leap in the dark faith when I first believe in Christ as my Savior. After years of study I have found that there is a KIND of faith known as evidentiary faith. This is the one Christ refers to in GJohn 10.37, 38

Glad to get that clarification out of the way
I'm glad you are a Christian. Since reading your post yesterday I was thinking about you, concerned.