To what does the APOSTASIA refer

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ewq1938

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Wise Brothers in Christ have been saying this to you:
"Therefore, Scripture nor Jesus is wrong. Only someone that would deny what the Scriptures say and what Jesus said, is wrong, not them."

JESUS says to you: "In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established"

THREE Faithful Witnesses say this to you:

#1. JESUS -
Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake.
And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another.
Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many.
And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.

#2. Apostle PAUL - Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

#3. Apostle JOHN - Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

If you had 'much love' you would go to the LORD and ask for forgiveness for opposing His words and attacking your brother(s) who are pointing you back to His words = throwing stones at the messengers is status quo pharisee

@marks, you only have two choices

A.) "God's will be done on earth as it is in Heaven"

b.) @marks will be done on earth as it is on earth


Add number 4:

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith , giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
 
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David in NJ

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Add number 4:

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith , giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
100% TRUTH

pre-trib school of context will attempt to say 1 Tim 4:1 is not in 'context' to the Antichrist.

YET, the Holy Spirit does, in fact, pin it on "latter times" which is directly connected to the AoD,
such as "seducing spirits and doctrines of devils"

Def of doctrine of a devil = opposing God's directives that are CLEAR in the Gospel & Apostles
 
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IndianaRob

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100% TRUTH

pre-trib school of context will attempt to say 1 Tim 4:1 is not in 'context' to the Antichrist.

YET, the Holy Spirit does, in fact, pin it on "latter times" which is directly connected to the AoD,
such as "seducing spirits and doctrines of devils"

Def of doctrine of a devil = opposing God's directives that are CLEAR in the Gospel & Apostles
It was for the “latter times” of the existence of the nation of Israel. It’s talking about the Jews trying to force dietary laws on Christians.
 
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David in NJ

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It was for the “latter times” of the existence of the nation of Israel. It’s talking about the Jews trying to force dietary laws on Christians.
lol = that may of been the short answer BUT not the FULL COMPLETE answer

Notice the first thing mentioned "Forbidding to marry" = classic RCC demon doctrine

the HOLY SPIRIT did not LIMIT the amount of "doctrines of demons" that would be sweeping over the earth in the latter times/TODAY.
 

IndianaRob

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lol = that may of been the short answer BUT not the FULL COMPLETE answer

Notice the first thing mentioned "Forbidding to marry" = classic RCC demon doctrine

the HOLY SPIRIT did not LIMIT the amount of "doctrines of demons" that would be sweeping over the earth in the latter times/TODAY.
Right David, context in the verse doesn’t mean anything, you can add anything to it you want.

Have you read that chapter?
 
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David in NJ

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Right David, context in the verse doesn’t mean anything, you can add anything to it you want.

Have you read that chapter?
"you can add anything to it you want."

Well you can do that but i wouldn't

the HOLY SPIRIT says "doctrines(plural) of demons(plural) = i go with the HS on this
 

David in NJ

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Don’t fault the Holy Spirit for you adding to the word of God to make it fit your doctrine.
Don't bear false witness and be held as a liar.

HOLY SPIRIT says "doctrines(plural) of demons(plural)" and i BELIEVE the Holy Spirit of TRUTH
 

David in NJ

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Oh I know I’ll never convince your side of anything.
We(you/me/more) are all called to be on the side of the HOLY SPIRIT = aka the SPIRIT of TRUTH

GOOD NEWS, this means you also are invited by the HOLY SPIRIT to His TRUTH
 
J

Johann

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It was for the “latter times” of the existence of the nation of Israel. It’s talking about the Jews trying to force dietary laws on Christians.
1Ti_4:1
4:1–5 Paul returns to the subject of false teaching (compare 1Ti_1:3-11). Here Paul is concerned not with the content of the false teachers’ doctrine, but with its source. Paul claims that false teaching comes from deceptive spirits and demons.

expressly [explicitly] says -- The reference is to prophetic passages known to Paul. He credits the Holy Spirit as their originator, but whether to O.T. prophecy (Act_1:16) or to some Christian utterance (2Th_2:2; 1Co_14:1.) we do not know. One may recall the words of Jesus in Mat_24:10, Mat_24:24.

And other passages: Act_20:29-30; 2Th_2:3-12; Heb_3:12; Heb 5:11–6:8; Heb_10:26-31; 2Pe_3:3; 1Jn_2:18; Jud_1:18.

in later times -- This particular Greek phrase only occurs here in the NT, but is synonymous with the "last days" (see note on 2Ti_3:1). That is, in due time, short time or while.
It is unclear as to the "later times" of what? From our standpoint one may think it means the last times of the world. But from the standpoint of the speaker, it probably means "the later times" of the Judaism.
Though the apostle describes these events as occurring in the "later times" they describe Timothy’s current circumstances.

depart from the faith -- Αποστησονται - της πιστεως· They will apostatize from the faith falling prey to false teachers.

deceitful spirits -- An impostor or misleader.
deceiver or seducer -- See 2Jo_1:7, and compare ὁ πλανῶν the deceiver, used of Satan in Rev_12:9; Rev_20:10.

teachings of demons, -- The real origin of apostasy seems to spring from the devil at his work to steal away God's followers. The reference is to supernatural beings hostile to God and His people (e.g., Mar_9:38; 1Co_10:20).

Demons and deceitful spirits probably refer to the same group of evil figures. Paul’s point is to demonstrate the errant doctrine of the false teachers comes not from themselves, but from demonic figures (compare 2Co_4:4; 2Co_11:13-15).

The motives, methods, and doctrine of demons will fill the hearts and minds of evil men who will promote and teach lies to leads men away from the truth.




NASB  "deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons"
NKJV  "deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons"
NRSV  "deceiftul spirits and teachings of demons"
TEV  "lying spirits. . .teachings of demons"
NJB  "deceitful spirits and doctrines that come from devils"
Paul's view of these false teachers is very negative. He attributes their teaching to the work of Satan (cf. 1 Tim. 2:14; 3:6-7) and to the demonic. In many ways Paul's view of these heretics parallels the OT view of Canaanites' fertility worship. God told the Israelites to totally destroy these people because they would corrupt the faith. These same warnings are found here (cf. 2 Thess. 2:9-10; James 3:15; 1 John 2:18-19).

SPECIAL TOPIC: THE DEMONIC (UNCLEAN SPIRITS)

SPECIAL TOPIC: SATAN

SPECIAL TOPIC: FERTILITY WORSHIP IN THE ANE

4:2
NASB  "by means of the hypocrisy of liars"
NKJV  "speaking lies in hypocrisy"
NRSV  "through the hypocrisy of liars"
TEV  "spread by deceitful liars"
NJB  "seduced by the hypocrisy of liars"
These claim to be "teachers of the Law" (cf. 1 Tim. 1:7). There was obviously an element of Judaism involved. They are vividly described in 1 Tim. 1:3-7; 4:2-3,7 and 6:3-10,20-21.

they teach strange doctrines (1 Tim. 1:3; 6:3)
they pay attention to myths and genealogies (1 Tim. 1:4)
they have turned aside to fruitless discussion (1 Tim. 1:6)
they make confident assertions about what they do not understand (1 Tim. 1:7; 6:4)
they are hypocritical liars (1 Tim. 4:2)
they have seared consciences (1 Tim. 4:2)
they forbid marriage (1 Tim. 4:3)
they advocate abstaining from foods (1 Tim. 4:3)
they put forth fables (1 Tim. 4:7)
they are conceited (1 Tim. 6:4)
they have a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words (1 Tim. 6:4)
they cause constant friction (1 Tim. 6:5)
they have false knowledge (1 Tim. 6:20-21)
they have gone astray from the faith (1 Tim. 4:1; 6:21)

NASB, Peshitta  "seared in their own conscience"
NKJV  "having their own conscience seared with a branding iron"
NRSV  "consciences seared with a hot iron"
TEV  "consciences are dead, as if burnt with a hot iron"
NJB  "consciences are branded as though with a red-hot iron"
This refers to one of two things.

The false teachers were beyond the place of repentance (cf. Eph. 4:19; Titus 1:15). We get the English word "cauterize" from this Greek term.
This phrase refers to Satan's brand showing his ownership (e.g., Rev. 13:16,17; 14:11; 16:2; 19:20; 20:4).


Context:
This verse occurs within the broader framework of Paul's letter to Timothy, where Paul addresses Timothy as a young pastor overseeing the church in Ephesus. Paul is providing guidance on various issues, including the responsibilities of church leadership, how to combat false teachings, and how to encourage sound doctrine.

1. Warning about Apostasy
Paul emphasizes that the Holy Spirit has given a clear and explicit warning about future events: in the "latter times" (often interpreted as the period between Christ’s first and second coming), some believers will "depart from the faith." This phrase means that people who had once professed faith in Christ would abandon or turn away from it. This is an important theme in Paul's letters, where he warns repeatedly about the dangers of falling away from the truth (e.g., 2 Thessalonians 2:3).

The phrase also implies that this falling away is not simply a casual drifting, but a conscious rejection of the truth they once embraced. It shows that deception and spiritual danger would be a significant issue for the church.

2. Deception by Spirits and Demonic Doctrines
The primary cause for this departure is due to "deceiving spirits" and "doctrines of demons." Paul is not just referring to erroneous human teachings but to influences that come from evil spiritual sources. The idea of "deceiving spirits" points to spiritual beings who mislead believers by twisting the truth and enticing them away from the gospel. These "doctrines of demons" represent teachings inspired by or in service of demonic forces, rather than the truth of God's Word.

In Paul's context, this likely had to do with the rise of gnosticism, a heretical movement that taught, among other things, secret knowledge (gnosis) as the path to salvation and often denied the goodness of creation and bodily resurrection. It also foreshadows the coming of false teachings and spiritual confusion that would intensify as the end times approached.

3. Paul's Encouragement to Timothy
Throughout this letter, Paul encourages Timothy to combat false teachings with sound doctrine (1 Timothy 4:6), to be an example of godliness (1 Timothy 4:12), and to remain steadfast in the truth (1 Timothy 4:16). The warning in 1 Timothy 4:1 serves as a sober reminder that spiritual vigilance and discernment are essential for church leaders and believers alike, especially when dealing with false doctrines.

Paul’s concern here is both pastoral and prophetic. He not only warns about the coming apostasy but also equips Timothy to lead his congregation in an age where spiritual deception will be rampant. This passage reflects a universal challenge for the church: remaining faithful to the gospel amid the pressures of false teaching and spiritual warfare.

Shalom.
J.
 
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IndianaRob

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We(you/me/more) are all called to be on the side of the HOLY SPIRIT = aka the SPIRIT of TRUTH

GOOD NEWS, this means you also are invited by the HOLY SPIRIT to His TRUTH
It’s very obvious to the casual observer that your side searches the scripture to prove your false doctrine rather than searching the scriptures for truth.
 

David in NJ

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It’s very obvious to the casual observer that your side searches the scripture to prove your false doctrine rather than searching the scriptures for truth.
Your current aka = false witness(jealousy)

Once again, a false witness throws out false accusations with no evidence of that which they accuse.

You need to spend time alone with JESUS

Just as Post 290 exemplifies
 

IndianaRob

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Your current aka = false witness(jealousy)

Once again, a false witness throws out false accusations with no evidence of that which they accuse.

You need to spend time alone with JESUS

Just as Post 290 exemplifies
I can assure you I’m not jealous.
 

David in NJ

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I can assure you I’m not jealous.
But you do cast false accusations!

Which i forgive you of and pray that we would be joined TOGETHER in CHRIST and the Holy Spirit

We can do this together in HIM who called us out of darkness - Amen
 

Guestman

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The Greek word apostasia (G646), means "deflection from truth" (Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible), and is found twice in the Bible, at 2 Thessalonians 2:3, whereby the apostle Paul said: "Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it ("day of Jehovah", verse 2, see Isa 2:10-12) will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction".

And at Acts 21:21, that says: "But they have heard it rumored about you that you have been teaching all the Jews among the nations an apostasy from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or to follow the customary practices."

The Greek word apostasia has its roots in apostasion (G647) that means "properly, something to separate, i.e. divorce", as at Matthew 19:7: "They said to him: “Why, then, did Moses direct giving a certificate of dismissal and divorcing her ?”(see also Matt 5:31; Mark 10:4)

The Bible encyclopedia Insight on the Scriptures makes this comment on apostasy: "This term in Greek (a·po·sta·si´a) comes from the verb a·phi´ste·mi, literally meaning “stand away from.” The noun has the sense of “desertion, abandonment or rebellion.” (Ac 21:21, ftn) In classical Greek the noun was used to refer to political defection, and the verb is evidently employed in this sense at Acts 5:37, concerning Judas the Galilean who “drew off” (a·pe´ste·se, form of a·phi´ste·mi) followers."

"The Greek Septuagint uses the term at Genesis 14:4 with reference to such a rebellion. However, in the Christian Greek Scriptures it is used primarily with regard to religious defection; a withdrawal or abandonment of the true cause, worship, and service of God, and hence an abandonment of what one has previously professed and a total desertion of principles or faith. The religious leaders of Jerusalem charged Paul with such an apostasy against the Mosaic Law."

So, who are the ones who have apostasized against Jehovah the "Almighty" God ?(see Ex 6:3, KJV) At Matthew 13:24-30, Jesus illustrated who this would be, saying: "The Kingdom of the heavens may be likened to a man (Jesus Christ, Matt 13:37) who sowed fine seed ("sons of the Kingdom", Matt 13:38b) in his field ("the world", Matt 13:38a)."

"While men were sleeping (or as each of the apostles died, who acted as a restraint against apostates, see 2 Thess 2:6, 7), his enemy ("the Devil", Matt 13:39) came and oversowed weeds ("sons of the wicked one", Matt 13:38b, counterfeit Christians) in among the wheat (of true Christians) and left."(see 1 John 2:18-23, whereby "the antichrists", that means "against (or instead of) Christ" came from WITHIN the Christian congregation, and eventually developed into Christendom, see Zech 5:5-11)

"When the stalk sprouted and produced fruit (or the Christian congregation was reaching maturity), then the weeds (of counterfeit Christians) also appeared.(see 1 Tim 2:18-20; Titus 3:10, 11) So the slaves of the master of the house came and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow fine seed (of true Christianity) in your field ? How, then, does it have weeds (of counterfeit Christians) ?’ "

"He said to them, ‘An enemy (Satan the Devil), a man (or eventually through "the man of lawlessness", 2 Thess 2:4, the religious leaders of Christendom, with such notables as the Apostolic Fathers, the Early Church Fathers), did this.’ The slaves said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go out and collect them ?’ "

"He said, ‘No, for fear that while collecting the weeds (of counterfeit Christians who are the apostates, with false doctrines as "the Holy Trinity", hell fire, immortality of the soul, the cross, Easter, Christmas, birthdays, a clergy-laity class, veneration of "saints", transubstantiation, Mary as "the mother of God" and being "ever virgin", etc),"

"you uproot the wheat (of true Christians) with them (for initially the differences between "the truth", see John 8:31, 32, and what the apostates were pushing was just in its beginning, being "small", see 2 Tim 4:3, 4). Let both grow together until the harvest (when "the truth" has been flooded over with "a refuge of lies", see Isa 28:17, that began in 1914 C.E. when Jesus was crowned king of God's Kingdom, Dan 7:13, 14; Rev 6:1, 2, and took on the role king/high priest, see Ps 110:4),"

"and in the harvest season (that runs from 1914 C.E. to "the great tribulation", Matt 24:21), I will tell the reapers (the angels, Matt 13:39b): First collect the weeds (of counterfeit Christians of Christendom at the end of the harvest season) and bind them in bundles to burn them up (see Rev 17:16, 17); then gather the wheat (of true Christians, those who honor Jehovah, see Mal 3:16 - 4:3) into my storehouse (for their salvation, see Luke 21:27, 28; 2 Thess 1:7-9; Heb 9:28)."
 

David in NJ

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The Greek word apostasia (G646), means "deflection from truth" (Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible), and is found twice in the Bible, at 2 Thessalonians 2:3, whereby the apostle Paul said: "Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it ("day of Jehovah", verse 2, see Isa 2:10-12) will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction".

And at Acts 21:21, that says: "But they have heard it rumored about you that you have been teaching all the Jews among the nations an apostasy from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or to follow the customary practices."

The Greek word apostasia has its roots in apostasion (G647) that means "properly, something to separate, i.e. divorce", as at Matthew 19:7: "They said to him: “Why, then, did Moses direct giving a certificate of dismissal and divorcing her ?”(see also Matt 5:31; Mark 10:4)

The Bible encyclopedia Insight on the Scriptures makes this comment on apostasy: "This term in Greek (a·po·sta·si´a) comes from the verb a·phi´ste·mi, literally meaning “stand away from.” The noun has the sense of “desertion, abandonment or rebellion.” (Ac 21:21, ftn) In classical Greek the noun was used to refer to political defection, and the verb is evidently employed in this sense at Acts 5:37, concerning Judas the Galilean who “drew off” (a·pe´ste·se, form of a·phi´ste·mi) followers."

"The Greek Septuagint uses the term at Genesis 14:4 with reference to such a rebellion. However, in the Christian Greek Scriptures it is used primarily with regard to religious defection; a withdrawal or abandonment of the true cause, worship, and service of God, and hence an abandonment of what one has previously professed and a total desertion of principles or faith. The religious leaders of Jerusalem charged Paul with such an apostasy against the Mosaic Law."

So, who are the ones who have apostasized against Jehovah the "Almighty" God ?(see Ex 6:3, KJV) At Matthew 13:24-30, Jesus illustrated who this would be, saying: "The Kingdom of the heavens may be likened to a man (Jesus Christ, Matt 13:37) who sowed fine seed ("sons of the Kingdom", Matt 13:38b) in his field ("the world", Matt 13:38a)."

"While men were sleeping (or as each of the apostles died, who acted as a restraint against apostates, see 2 Thess 2:6, 7), his enemy ("the Devil", Matt 13:39) came and oversowed weeds ("sons of the wicked one", Matt 13:38b, counterfeit Christians) in among the wheat (of true Christians) and left."(see 1 John 2:18-23, whereby "the antichrists", that means "against (or instead of) Christ" came from WITHIN the Christian congregation, and eventually developed into Christendom, see Zech 5:5-11)

"When the stalk sprouted and produced fruit (or the Christian congregation was reaching maturity), then the weeds (of counterfeit Christians) also appeared.(see 1 Tim 2:18-20; Titus 3:10, 11) So the slaves of the master of the house came and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow fine seed (of true Christianity) in your field ? How, then, does it have weeds (of counterfeit Christians) ?’ "

"He said to them, ‘An enemy (Satan the Devil), a man (or eventually through "the man of lawlessness", 2 Thess 2:4, the religious leaders of Christendom, with such notables as the Apostolic Fathers, the Early Church Fathers), did this.’ The slaves said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go out and collect them ?’ "

"He said, ‘No, for fear that while collecting the weeds (of counterfeit Christians who are the apostates, with false doctrines as "the Holy Trinity", hell fire, immortality of the soul, the cross, Easter, Christmas, birthdays, a clergy-laity class, veneration of "saints", transubstantiation, Mary as "the mother of God" and being "ever virgin", etc),"

"you uproot the wheat (of true Christians) with them (for initially the differences between "the truth", see John 8:31, 32, and what the apostates were pushing was just in its beginning, being "small", see 2 Tim 4:3, 4). Let both grow together until the harvest (when "the truth" has been flooded over with "a refuge of lies", see Isa 28:17, that began in 1914 C.E. when Jesus was crowned king of God's Kingdom, Dan 7:13, 14; Rev 6:1, 2, and took on the role king/high priest, see Ps 110:4),"

"and in the harvest season (that runs from 1914 C.E. to "the great tribulation", Matt 24:21), I will tell the reapers (the angels, Matt 13:39b): First collect the weeds (of counterfeit Christians of Christendom at the end of the harvest season) and bind them in bundles to burn them up (see Rev 17:16, 17); then gather the wheat (of true Christians, those who honor Jehovah, see Mal 3:16 - 4:3) into my storehouse (for their salvation, see Luke 21:27, 28; 2 Thess 1:7-9; Heb 9:28)."
You started out in 100% TRUTH

Then you diverted to apostacy against the TRUTH

jehovah witnesses are CORRECT on the satanic Vatican by which the world is deceived = counterfeit christianity with a false christ/apostle

Just as RCC has false doctrine, even doctrine of demons, so to does the teachings of watchtower

Please read GENESIS while in prayer to the LORD Jesus Christ asking HIM to wash you in HIS Blood and fill you with the Holy Spirit.

If you want to be SAVED and received into the KINGDOM of the Love of HIS Dear SON you must follow HIS WILL

Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.
And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the Name which is Above every name,

that at the Name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in Heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

The WILL of the FATHER is for you be SAVED by the Name, LORD Jesus Christ.

This is the ‘stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.’
Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other Name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

the name jehovah cannot save you BUT the Name ABOVE all names will- LORD Jesus Christ
 

St. SteVen

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So, 2 Thes 2:3 the APOSTASIA is a point in time event that is recognizable. Had Paul wanted to indicate it was a departure from the faith, he would have used the verb, not the noun.


It is for this reason, along with other important points, that ἡ ἀποστασία is a direct reference to the Pre-Trib Rapture. The importance of what was stated in this brief letter is to show that the APOSTASIA is an event, not something in progress, and that Paul uses the verb in 1 Tim 4:1.
I would be interested in other Pre-Tribbers thoughts on this.
Perhaps the apostasy is not the triggering event, but the response to it.
- A Pre-Trib rapture
- The abomination of desolation
- The Tribulation period
- The GREAT Tribulation
- Meeting the demands of the antichrist
- Worship of the Beast/taking the mark

What becomes of the church (the institutional church) in the Tribulation period?
A great falling away as the response?

The lawless one is being restrained until... (an event "at the proper time")
Until the one who holds it back is taken out of the way. ???

2 Thessalonians 2:5-7 NIV
Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things?
6 And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time.
7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work;
but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way.

[
 

Davy

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would like to show you something behind the scenes with the following observation. The debate of the meaning of APOSTASIA in 2 Thes 2:3 must take into consideration 1 Tim 4:1 where Paul uses a verb, not a noun as in 2 Thes 2:3. Here are both verses as Paul wrote them:
2 Thes 2:3
μή τις ὑμᾶς ἐξαπατήσῃ κατὰ μηδένα τρόπον· ὅτι ἐὰν μὴ ἔλθῃ ἡ ἀποστασία πρῶτον καὶ ἀποκαλυφθῇ ὁ ἄνθρωπος τῆς ἀνομίας, ὁ υἱὸς τῆς ἀπωλείας,
1 Tim 4:1
Τὸ δὲ πνεῦμα ῥητῶς λέγει ὅτι ἐν ὑστέροις καιροῖς ἀποστήσονταί τινες τῆς πίστεως,

You will note that Paul uses the verb ἀποστήσονταί when referring unambiguously to a departure from the faith. Note also that the modifier "from the faith" is needed because the verb by itself does not denote apostasy from the faith.

Note also that in 2 Thes 2:3 the articular noun ἡ ἀποστασία is used. Had Paul wanted to use a grammatical structure and lexical item to talk about the departing from the faith, he would have used the verb as he did in 1 Tim 4. What must be pointed out is that the APOSTASIA in 2 Thes 2:3 has to be an event, not a process. If this is not understood, you will be confused about what this APOSTASIA is. The APOSTASIA and the man of lawlessness are both instantaneous events. In fact, one thing the APOSTASIA is not is a progressive happening. For example, Jude 3,4 tell of a departure from the faith, it happens over time, which would not be an event that is recognizable when it occurs.

So, 2 Thes 2:3 the APOSTASIA is a point in time event that is recognizable. Had Paul wanted to indicate it was a departure from the faith, he would have used the verb, not the noun.


It is for this reason, along with other important points, that ἡ ἀποστασία is a direct reference to the Pre-Trib Rapture. The importance of what was stated in this brief letter is to show that the APOSTASIA is an event, not something in progress, and that Paul uses the verb in 1 Tim 4:1.
I would be interested in other Pre-Tribbers thoughts on this.

Surely you have read Lord Jesus' warnings about the coming false-Christ that will work great signs and wonders, that IF it were possible, would deceive even His very elect?

And surely, you have read Christ's warning through Apostle John in Revelation 13:11 forward about the "another beast" that comes as the Lamb, but speaks as a dragon (Satan), and also is to work those miracles to deceive the whole world?

And what about Apostle Paul's warning in 2 Corinthians 11 of his desire to present us to our True Husband Jesus Christ as "a chaste virgin", where he also warned that he feared we might received "another spirit", and instead fall away to the "another Jesus"?

For one in Christ that has read all the above Scripture, then why can't they grasp about the coming "man of sin" that Paul warned of in 2 Thessalonians 2 is about the same subject of those other Scriptures?

It's not simply just about leaving the Faith, it's about being DECEIVED to worship the coming false-Christ who comes first to 'play'... Jesus Christ! That is the "strong delusion" idea that Paul was pointing to.

The departure from the Faith ideas are simply something drummed up by the workers of iniquity to point away... from Paul's real warning about the coming of a false-Christ to sit in a new Jewish-built temple in Jerusalem for the end of this world, with many that will be deceived into thinking that will be Lord Jesus, and actually worshiping the Antichrist instead, and not aware of it.
 

Timtofly

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False letters and false prophecies of 'pre-trib' rapture was circulating(like today) and the HOLY SPIRIT put His 'KABOSH' on it and quick = just as HE is doing now and will grow louder as we approach the impending Day of the LORD for the world = His Glorious Second Coming for His Saints.
So you are saying the word means departure instead of apostasy. The deception was that apostasy had already happened?

Paul said that they had not departed so the Day of the Lord had not happened yet.

You are as bad as, and in agreement with Amil on that point. No one of Israel was saying they would be raptured. Israel was not looking for a rapture. You have the wrong interpretation of the point, "being gathered together with Him".

"Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,"

You are assuming and inserting your brand of eschatology and forcing your interpretation into this verse.

Israel was waiting for their Prince to come and establish an early kingdom. That is the Day of the Lord. The earthly reign of Christ is the Day of the Lord. Now you do not seem that dogmatic on the point of what the Day of the Lord is except, you are stuck, with a lot of folks here, that the Day of the Lord is a period of God's wrath, and then that day is over.

Paul was not speaking out against any one saying they had already been gathered together. Paul was speaking out against those who claimed they were already living in the Day of the Lord. That would be the preterist view, the post millennial view, and the Amillennial view.

Those first century people were not waiting to leave the earth. They were not waiting to live under God's wrath and constant judgment forever. They were waiting to live on the earth with Christ for hundreds of years, or forever.

Jesus said:

"In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."

If there were already many mansions in heaven, why would Jesus need to build more? They were expecting Jesus to return to the earth. Jesus would gather all who are left after the destruction of the wicked and set up an earthly kingdom. At that point it was an unseen kingdom and not a physical earthly kingdom. But they were all waiting for Jesus to come to the earth, and set up a kingdom.

The Day of the Lord is not the wrath and destruction of the wicked. The Day of the Lord is the Sabbath Day of rest.

The false teaching was that they were already living in that earthly kingdom of God, and life was as good as it was going to get. Exactly the point of post mill, and Amil, so they change the whole meaning of the Day of the Lord into a 24 hour period of judgment and wrath instead of a Day of Rest of the Lord, and an earthly kingdom on this present earth.

That would be the start of eternity for them, not a creation experience. This creation would be over and a new eternity, whatever that means.

You call being gathered together a rapture event, because you were taught we all leave this earth. Or sorta, as many say that is all the souls gathered in heaven, as well. You know a soul can be raptured into heaven, no? How would it get there any other way, besides being caught up? Then people don't trust the clear words of Jesus, saying this body of death, returns to dust, and Jesus was preparing a place for the soul, to live in those mansions already up there.

Then Paul said we would meet the Lord in the air, so that has been intepretated by some, that now, Jesus never even comes back and sets up that earthly kingdom for Israel as God promised. Still carrying on that heresy that the kingdom was already on the earth, and life was as good as it would get, until eternity starts, whatever that means. Eternity literally has no beginning nor end, so not sure how it can start at the Second Coming.

If Paul was talking about a departure, he placed that before Satan would be exposed. Then the Day of the Lord would start, that thousand year earthly kingdom of Israel before current creation is replaced by the next creation.

My point is that Jesus and the angels are on the earth for God's judgment, but not necessarily during the 7 vials of God's wrath, nor the actual winepress, before things are made new for the Day of the Lord.