Proof of Rapture before Tribulation

[Douggg]

I tell the truth. You are very dishonest with scripture. That is a fact.

Have you heard me say anything like that about other posters that I may disagree with ?

No, I don't.

Then maybe you should learn. And make some timeline charts that convey your Amil beliefs. Such as the time/times/half time that Satan will have left, once cast down to earth.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You did not answer the question.

You are an expert at not answering questions since you've failed to answer many of my questions in the past, so just remember that the next time you complain about someone not answering one of your questions. I didn't answer it because it wasn't relevant since you are wrong that Satan will be cast down to earth in the future.

The time/times/half time that Satan will have left when he is cast down to earth, where does that time/times/haft time fit relative to Jesus's return ?

He was cast down to earth long ago which resulted in him not being able to accuse believers anymore. As Paul said in Romans 8:33-34: " Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who then is the one who condemns? No one.". That includes Satan. Your beliefs are so different than mine that it makes it very difficult to have a reasonable discussion with you. I see the time/times/half time as a symbolic reference to the New Testament time period up until Satan's little season when he is no longer bound.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Have you heard me say anything like that about other posters that I may disagree with ?

No, but who cares? They are not blatantly dishonest like you. I haven't seen anyone else try to create new definitions for words to make scripture say what you want it to say the way you do.

Then maybe you should learn.

No. It's a waste of time. It's completely unnecessary. There are no charts in scripture. Your obsession with charts is a joke.

And make some timeline charts that convey your Amil beliefs. Such as the time/times/half time that Satan will have left, once cast down to earth.

It's not going to happen, Doug, so just stop wasting your time talking about this.

 

[Douggg]

You are an expert at not answering questions since you've failed to answer many of my questions in the past, so just remember that the next time you complain about someone not answering one of your questions. I didn't answer it because it wasn't relevant since you are wrong that Satan will be cast down to earth in the future.

Ezekiel 28:16-19 is not going to happen ?

And Revelation 12:12 states that Satan will be cast down to earth.

He was cast down to earth long ago which resulted in him not being able to accuse believers anymore.

When cast down to earth, he attempts to destroy the woman for a time/times/half time. When does that time/times/half time take place ?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Ezekiel 28:16-19 is not going to happen ?

If that's about Satan, that reminds me of Revelation 20:10 which definitely will happen.

And Revelation 12:12 states that Satan will be cast down to earth.

Which he was long ago. Him being cast out of heaven long ago resulted in him not being able to accuse believers anymore and Paul made it clear that no one can accuse believers anymore.

Romans 8:31 What, then, shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33 . Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.

When cast down to earth, he attempts to destroy the woman for a time/times/half time. When does that time/times/half time take place ?

Doug, do you not read what I say? I already answered this. Why do you ask me questions that I've already answered, not only in this thread but I've answered that same question from you in other threads. Am I wasting my time talking to you since you can't remember anything I say? Has Satan not been trying and failing to destroy the church for a long time already? Of course he has. So, that should tell you something about when the time/times/half time is.

 

[Douggg]

Doug, do you not read what I say? I already answered this. Why do you ask me questions that I've already answered, not only in this thread but I've answered that same question from you in other threads. Am I wasting my time talking to you since you can't remember anything I say? Has Satan not been trying and failing to destroy the church for a long time already? Of course he has. So, that should tell you something about when the time/times/half time is.

No, you did not say when the time/times/half time is, or even how long it is. The woman in Revelation 12 is not the church, but Israel and her seed.

The expression time/times/half time is three and a half years long roughly. The term is found in two other places in the bible, Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7, to take place at the time of the end Daniel 12:4, Daniel 12:9.

The 1260 days of Revelation 12:6 corresponds to the first half of the 7 year 70th week forthcoming, during which the two witnesses testify for 1260 days, Revelation 11:3.

Revelation 12:7-9 of the war in (the second) heaven happens right after those 1260 days - so cannot have happen yet - which Satan is cast down to earth. Having a time, times, half time left. The time, times, half time is essentially the second half of the seven years.

The seventh angel blowing his trumpet begins the third woe to the inhabiters of the earth, which is in Revelation 12:12, of Satan cast down to earth, having great wrath, knowing that his time is short....the time, times, half time of Revelation 12:14.

 

[ewq1938]

The third woe is Satan cast down to the earth having great wrath, knowing his time is short....a time/times/half time.

satan is kicked out of heaven before the trib according to the last verses of Rev 12 so that is LONG before the 3rd woe trump.

 

[Douggg]

satan is kicked out of heaven before the trib according to the last verses of Rev 12 so that is LONG before the 3rd woe trump.

No.

The third woe to the inabiters of the earth is Satan cast down to earth having great wrath.

Satan when he is cast out of (the second) heaven down to earth, leaves him with just a times, times, half time left. roughly three and a half years, something less than 1260 days.

Before then, the great tribulation will have already begun when the abomination of desolation is setup. Setup 1335 days before Jesus returns.

1335 days - contains the something less than 1260 days that Satan will have left.

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Here is a comprehensive chart I made of the timeframe components of the 7 years.

 

[ewq1938]

No.

The third woe to the inabiters of the earth is Satan cast down to earth having great wrath.

satan is kicked out long before the 3rd woe trump. The woes in Rev 12 are not that trump or timeframe. The trib has not even started in Rev 12 and the 3rd woe trump is when the trib has ended and God's wrath comes via the second coming and vials of wrath.

 

[Douggg]

The woes in Rev 12 are not that trump or timeframe.

Then what are you claiming is the trumpet associated with the woe to the inhabiters of the earth in Revelation 12:12, if not the 7th trumpet ?

The trib has not even started in Rev 12 and the 3rd woe trump is when the trib has ended and God's wrath comes via the second coming and vials of wrath.

You are not taking into account of when the great tribulation begins and what triggers it.

The 7 vials of God's wrath take place during the great tribulation.

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Regarding the last three trumpets sounding as associated with the three woes...

5th trumpet in Revelation 9 - first woe, the flesh tormenting locust

6th trumpet in Revelation 9 - second woe, a third of mankind killed by the 200,000,000 size army

7th trumpet in Revelation 11 - third woe, specifically stated in the text of Revelation 12:12 as woe to the inhabiters of the earth and sea, Satan cast down to earth, having great wrath, knowing his time is short.

And you have not addressed the short time that Satan will have left.... the time, times, half time. When that will take place.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No, you did not say when the time/times/half time is, or even how long it is.

Yes, I did. It's pointless to talk to you since you can't read without charts.

 

[Douggg]

Yes, I did. It's pointless to talk to you since you can't read without charts.

My post #386 did not contain any charts. You did not say when the time, times, half time left to Satan after he is cast down earth - took place in your view.

The expression time/times/half time is three and a half years long roughly. The term is found in two other places in the bible, Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7, to take place at the time of the end, Daniel 12:4, Daniel 12:9.

Revelation 12:6, the 1260 days takes place before Satan is cast down to earth having great wrath, and only a time/times/half time left.

So, when are you claiming those 1260 days took place in your view ?

Be specific, don't come back with something like you did before, i.e. "Has Satan not been trying and failing to destroy the church for a long time already? Of course he has. So, that should tell you something about when the time/times/half time is."

 

[Jay Ross]

The expression time/times/half time is three and a half years long roughly. The term is found in two other places in the bible, Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7, to take place at the time of the end, Daniel 12:4, Daniel 12:9.

Oh dear. Daniel 7:25 is a short time period, nominally accepted as being three and a half years long whereas Daniel 12:7 is a long time period that spans from the time of Daniel at the three and a half age mark, from the time of Adam's creation, until the end of the Age of the Ages, and spans three and a half ages when all of the wonders that Daniel had been shown would be completed. We cannot look at these two verses in our English translation and assume that the original source code language is the same simply because our respective translations translated the original language words in the same manner.

Douggg, you are trying to compare apples with lemons and have become lost in your own private understandings.

Oh well, you are very persistent in your own private misunderstanding, but you have worn out the welcome mat, so to speak, on this forum because of the many different understandings that are presented as "God's truth" are in conflict with your understanding and you are simply turning other members off with your demands for us to comply with your demands for diagrams in your preferred presentation style.

Goodbye

 

[Douggg]

Daniel 12:7 is a long time period that spans from the time of Daniel at the three and a half age mark, from the time of Adam's creation, until the end of the Age of the Ages,

In terms of years, how long are you claiming the time/times/half time of Daniel 12:7 is ?

Oh well, you are very persistent in your own private misunderstanding, but you have worn out the welcome mat, so to speak, on this forum because of the many different understandings that are presented as "God's truth" are in conflict with your understanding and you are simply turning other members off with your demands for us to comply with your demands for diagrams in your preferred presentation style.

Jay, no-one here agrees with the many misinterpretations that you have come up with.

Posters who disagree with the timeline charts I present - are resentful because my charts expose the error of their misinterpretations - for which, they produce no timeline charts of their own.

 

[ewq1938]

Then what are you claiming is the trumpet associated with the woe to the inhabiters of the earth in Revelation 12:12, if not the 7th trumpet ?

There is no trumpet mentioned there.

You are not taking into account of when the great tribulation begins and what triggers it.

The 7 vials of God's wrath take place during the great tribulation.

No, they do not. They pour after the GT is over.

7th trumpet in Revelation 11 - third woe, specifically stated in the text of Revelation 12:12 as woe to the inhabiters of the earth and sea

No trumpet is mentioned there. You have assumed that if the word "woe" appears, it must mean a trumpet is there also but that is false.

And you have not addressed the short time that Satan will have left.... the time, times, half time. When that will take place.

I already stated the war in the last verse of chp 12 is a reference to the trib so all the events of Rev 12 are before the trib starts.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Virgins are not usually at weddings these days:) Bridegooms do not usually get announced at midnight with a shout. People do not usually need lamps to gain access to a wedding party. Etc The point in the story is that some people were not ready. Some were. The one's who were not missed the event. Why would anyone miss being raised up in the Rapture, and then proceed on the the wedding and heaven? There is only one possible reason. They are not saved. In this story, the ones who miss it are represented as women without oil in their lamps

If the car was driving to heaven, possibly. It is not gas needed to go there. But if the lamps had oil, why was it such a panic and when they lit them they went out? The problem was no oil.

Name a verse that says that the foolish virgins had oil? Guess who is changing things? The key to understanding this story seems simple. What is needed to get to heaven?

" our lamps have gone out"
Next.

 

[Douggg]

There is no trumpet mentioned there.


No, they do not. They pour after the GT is over.


No trumpet is mentioned there. You have assumed that if the word "woe" appears, it must mean a trumpet is there also but that is false.

The 7th trumpet sounding is not in the text of Revelation 12, I agree. However, the 7th trumpet sounding is associated with the woe to the inhabiters of the earth, according to the text of Revelation 8:13. And woe to the inhabiters of the earth is in the text of Revelation 12:12.

 

[Douggg]

I already stated the war in the last verse of chp 12 is a reference to the trib so all the events of Rev 12 are before the trib starts.

Here is the last verse of Revelation 12.

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

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Revelation 12:17 takes place during the time, times, half time that Satan will have left. i.e. the latter part of the 7 years. The great tribulation will have already have begun before then, triggered by the AoD setup, as the great tribulation begins 1335 days before Jesus's return..

 

[Douggg]

Oh dear, does your swollen head hurt?

I am not taking your bait, Jay. Address the topic(s), not the other posters.

In terms of years, how long are you claiming the time/times/half time of Daniel 12:7 is ?

 

[dad]

Brother, I am sure that many Christians who believed in the rapture have already gone to be with the lord.

Great so they will rise from the dead and join the living Christians at the Rapture

Although I personally do not believe that there is going to be a rapture,

The bible is clear we will be gathered in the air to meet Jesus, the dead in Christ and also those alive who believe. We don't get a vote.

It does not change the fact that I see you as part of the believing body of Christ. Hope you have a nice day xox

Thank you.