The Galilean wedding is the model for the pre-trib rapture

[WPM]

They are literally in fits right now.
I love their flailing at the "half taken".
It is comical how the Bible becomes such an enemy.

You are describing yourself. This is called projection.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

QUOTE
"No, I don't. I've never indicated such a ridiculous thing. Stop talking to your straw man and talk to me. You are making yourself look like you have no reading comprehension skills whatsoever."

You said earlier those taken are killed
So you are claiming half the world is righteous and half unsaved.
Which adds to a convaluded interpretation.
In Noah the entire planet, ever human outside the ark are killed

And once again you are proving that you have no reading comprehension skills and also no spiritual discernment. I have never said that exactly half of the world is righteous (saved) and exactly half is unsaved. You are taking parables too literally. When Jesus refers to 5 wise virgins and 5 foolish virgins, He is not implying that in reality exactly half of people are wise and half are foolish. LOL. He is simply contrasting a difference between two types of people there. There's no reason to read any more into it than that. Same thing with the reference to one taken and one left. He is not saying that literally half of the world's population will be taken and literally half will be left. LOL. Why do you take parables so literally? LOL. Unbelievable.

None of you get that verse.
None of you.

Yet, you are completely unable to coherently and convincingly explain your understanding of it. All you do is blabber and you never actually exegete any scripture. Do you expect to be taken seriously when that is the case? Think again.

All of you think the world is made up of 50-50 saved vs unsaved.

No, we don't. Do you think making false claims about what we believe proves your point at all? No, it only makes you look like you either have terrible reading comprehension skills or you are a liar. Which is it?

Then when pressed you all say " oh no, that is notvtrue, few are saved and most go to hell"

That's what scripture teaches. Jesus said: "Many are called, bu few are chosen" (Matt 22:14).

The bible= before the flood half taken half left, watch and bevready.

LOL. What do you even mean by this? What happened to those who were left out of the ark? They were all killed, right? That's the point we make about the day Christ returns. All who are left behind will be killed just like all who were left out of the ark were killed. What is hard to understand about this?

Postrib rapturists= wrath comes,and half the world is taken someplace and are killed.

No. You are not even understanding what we believe. The taken are those who are taken up to meet the Lord in the air and those left behind are killed just like those who were left out of the ark and those who were left behind in Sodom on the day Lot went out of Sodom.

Impossible.

Are you all that dilluded???
Rev19 and mat 24 Have Jesus returning AFTER THE WRATH.

After what wrath exactly? Are you incapable of communicating clearly and being specific? Are you somehow missing that His wrath occurs on the day He returns (2 Thess 1:7-10, 1 Thess 5:2-3, 2 Peter 3:10-12, Rev 19:11-21)? We don't see that He returns after that. So, explain exactly what you are talking about.

HELLO????
That is AFTER the flood

HELLO??? What are you talking about? What exactly is AFTER the flood? You communicate like a little child. Talk like an adult so we can be sure of what you are intending to say.

You guys have Jesus returning before the flood/ wrath (when the "one taken" are gathered) and claiming PREFLOOD half the world's population is killed, and half are standing on the planet outside the ark, and somehow don't drown.

Huh??????

LOL. What is the name of your straw man? Are you incapable of understanding English? We don't have people being killed before the flood or before Jesus returns, we see them as being killed right after the flood comes, right after the fire comes down from heaven like in Lot's day, and right after He descends from heaven and takes us up to Himself. Is there something hard to understand about the plain English I'm using here? Do you think it helps your case to misrepresent what we believe?

 

[WPM]

And once again you are proving that you have no reading comprehension skills and also no spiritual discernment. I have never said that exactly half of the world is righteous (saved) and exactly half is unsaved. You are taking parables too literally. When Jesus refers to 5 wise virgins and 5 foolish virgins, He is not implying that in reality exactly half of people are wise and half are foolish. LOL. He is simply contrasting a difference between two types of people there. There's no reason to read any more into it than that. Same thing with the reference to one taken and one left. He is not saying that literally half of the world's population will be taken and literally half will be left. LOL. Why do you take parables so literally? LOL. Unbelievable.

Really well put!

 

[rebuilder 454]

And once again you are proving that you have no reading comprehension skills and also no spiritual discernment. I have never said that exactly half of the world is righteous (saved) and exactly half is unsaved. You are taking parables too literally. When Jesus refers to 5 wise virgins and 5 foolish virgins, He is not implying that in reality exactly half of people are wise and half are foolish. LOL. He is simply contrasting a difference between two types of people there. There's no reason to read any more into it than that. Same thing with the reference to one taken and one left. He is not saying that literally half of the world's population will be taken and literally half will be left. LOL. Why do you take parables so literally? LOL. Unbelievable.


Yet, you are completely unable to coherently and convincingly explain your understanding of it. All you do is blabber and you never actually exegete any scripture. Do you expect to be taken seriously when that is the case? Think again.


No, we don't. Do you think making false claims about what we believe proves your point at all? No, it only makes you look like you either have terrible reading comprehension skills or you are a liar. Which is it?


That's what scripture teaches. Jesus said: "Many are called, bu few are chosen" (Matt 22:14).


LOL. What do you even mean by this? What happened to those who were left out of the ark? They were all killed, right? That's the point we make about the day Christ returns. All who are left behind will be killed just like all who were left out of the ark were killed. What is hard to understand about this?


No. You are not even understanding what we believe. The taken are those who are taken up to meet the Lord in the air and those left behind are killed just like those who were left out of the ark and those who were left behind in Sodom on the day Lot went out of Sodom.


After what wrath exactly? Are you incapable of communicating clearly and being specific? Are you somehow missing that His wrath occurs on the day He returns (2 Thess 1:7-10, 1 Thess 5:2-3, 2 Peter 3:10-12, Rev 19:11-21)? We don't see that He returns after that. So, explain exactly what you are talking about.


HELLO??? What are you talking about? What exactly is AFTER the flood? You communicate like a little child. Talk like an adult so we can be sure of what you are intending to say.


LOL. What is the name of your straw man? Are you incapable of understanding English? We don't have people being killed before the flood or before Jesus returns, we see them as being killed right after the flood comes, right after the fire comes down from heaven like in Lot's day, and right after He descends from heaven and takes us up to Himself. Is there something hard to understand about the plain English I'm using here? Do you think it helps your case to misrepresent what we believe?

Amen to most of this.
The question is...who are the ones taken, and the ones left behind.
I misunderstood your position.
Didn't know that you apparently agree the ones taken are ,taken preflood/ pretrib.

That is my position also.

 

[rebuilder 454]

I am exposing your literal 50/50 claims. Hello!

Jesus said half taken in two separate chapters.

We can call it something else to help you out.

Yawn

 

[rebuilder 454]

Really well put!

Just read the parable and pretend half is not half.
Just keep pretending it is so.
Make a footnote in your postribber workbook.
Something like
" ha ha ha, Jesus said "half", how stupid"

 

[rebuilder 454]

I already addressed this in my post. Are you unable to read?


No, it is not. Nowhere does Rev 14 say that it's only referring to a rapture "of the covenant Jews". That's nonsense and not taught anywhere in scripture. Why would you interpret Revelation 14 in such a way that doesn't line up with the rest of scripture? That is a clear representation of the rapture of the church that occurs AFTER the tribulation of those days (1 Thess 4:14-17, Matthew 24:29-31).


You mess up all of scripture with your nonsense. You were shown that those left behind are all killed (Luke 17:26-37) and you just ignore that because you care more about believing what you want to believe than about what scripture teaches.

Whooda thought "firstfruits" would refer to a harvest, or that " firstfruits" PRECEDES MAIN HARVEST.

Some of your stuff is thoughtful.
But the omissions part is glaring friend.

 

[rebuilder 454]

You are describing yourself. This is called projection.

Yes.
The Bible projects.
Postribbers can not agree with it.

*Jesus declares

*You say no.
*.......Repeat

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Amen to most of this.
The question is...who are the ones taken, and the ones left behind.
I misunderstood your position.

Why did you misunderstand it, though? My position has been clear all along. I believe I have shown my position clearly and straightforwardly the whole time. My belief is that the ones taken are saved people. Christians. The church. And the ones left are everyone else. Unsaved, lost people.

Didn't know that you apparently agree the ones taken are ,taken preflood/ pretrib.

That is my position also.

The difference in our views is in our understanding of what happens right after some are taken and the rest are left. You think those who are left somehow survive Christ's second coming, while I do not. How many who were left out of the ark survived the flood? None. How many who were left in Sodom on the day Lot went out of Sodom survived? None. As Jesus said in Luke 17:30, " Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.".

What I wish you would do is exegete Luke 17:26-37 and show where Jesus taught that those who are left will survive rather than be killed.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Whooda thought "firstfruits" would refer to a harvest, or that " firstfruits" PRECEDES MAIN HARVEST.

Some of your stuff is thoughtful.
But the omissions part is glaring friend.

Your words alone are meaningless. As are mine. When do you plan on actually backing up your claims with scripture? I have no idea what you are intending to say here because you do not show what you mean with scripture.

As for "firstfruits", Paul said that Jesus Himself is the firstfruits in relation to the resurrection of the dead. Talking about omissions...why do you omit that from your doctrine?

1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

As for what scripture teaches about firstfruits in relation to Christians, have you never read this...

James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting. 18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

You should not try to interpret the book of Revelation without taking the rest of scripture into consideration.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Your words alone are meaningless. As are mine. When do you plan on actually backing up your claims with scripture? I have no idea what you are intending to say here because you do not show what you mean with scripture.

As for "firstfruits", Paul said that Jesus Himself is the firstfruits in relation to the resurrection of the dead. Talking about omissions...why do you omit that from your doctrine?

1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

As for what scripture teaches about firstfruits in relation to Christians, have you never read this...

James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting. 18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

You should not try to interpret the book of Revelation without taking the rest of scripture into consideration.

Really???
You are unaware of what Jesus is???
Firstfruits of the resurrection????.
Wow.
Then you try to misrepresent what we are???
( firstfruits of " His creatures"
DIRECTLY REFERRING TO REBIRTH)

OK FOLKS..this is what I am talking about.
He found " firstfruits" in the Bible. And without understanding ,proceeds to erroneously apply some definitions randomly to hopefully promote his error.
It is like someone saying, "evertime mountain is mentioned it refers to the same mountain"

Under your firstfruits template, the 144k are firstfruits in the exact dynamic as Jesus, (Firstfruits resurrection...OF MANKIND)..total misrepresentation.
....and since they are men, we would all be firstfruits alongside Christ.
Nope, as I said, firstfruits PRECEDES MAIN HARVEST...AHEM ...US.
The 144k are firstfruit JEWS.... AS SCRIPTURE VIVIDLY DECLARES.
Oh the irony of your false dishonest claim about how I need to incorporate all of scripture.
Whew..blue ribbon pot <> kettle!!!!!


Stop with the " back it up with Scripture lie".
You act like I don't.
Pure baloney and you know it.
If you do it again. Just stand in front of a mirror and say 3 times , "I misrepresent rebuilder and am proud of it"

YOU REALLY NEED TO LOOK UP WHAT "FIRSTFRUITS " are.
Do that before you answer anything concerning that dynamic

Without that basic definition, you will miss EVERYTHING concerning firsfruits.

Whew...what a basic misunderstanding.
...and you got the nerve to condescend while showing everyone your silly ignorance.

No wonder you can not unpack Rev 14.
...and never will till you get basic knowledge of firstfruits.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Why did you misunderstand it, though? My position has been clear all along. I believe I have shown my position clearly and straightforwardly the whole time. My belief is that the ones taken are saved people. Christians. The church. And the ones left are everyone else. Unsaved, lost people.


The difference in our views is in our understanding of what happens right after some are taken and the rest are left. You think those who are left somehow survive Christ's second coming, while I do not. How many who were left out of the ark survived the flood? None. How many who were left in Sodom on the day Lot went out of Sodom survived? None. As Jesus said in Luke 17:30, " Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.".

What I wish you would do is exegete Luke 17:26-37 and show where Jesus taught that those who are left will survive rather than be killed.

QUOTE
""YOU think those who are left somehow survive Christ's second coming, while I do not. How many who were left out of the ark survived the flood? None""

The ones left behind, are martyred.
Jesus said( inspite of your misunderstanding) that half of a group are taken/left behind. That group and the same ratio are mentioned again,ALONG WITH BE READY AND WATCH, A few sentences later,IN THE SAME BREATH, with the virgin parable!!!
Actually impossible to miss, but EVERY SINGLE POSTRIBBER CAN NOT UNPACK IT.
NONE OF YOU CAN

SMH

 

[doctrox]

What I wish you would do is exegete Luke 17:26-37 and show where Jesus taught that those who are left will survive rather than be killed.

When Christ described the conditions precedent to his return as being similar to "the days of Noe [Noah]" (Luke 17:26), he made a clear-cut analogy to the conditions of the time of the great flood. The picture is one of the world hurtling towards an enormous devastation with the overwhelming majority of people completely unaware of the reckoning that is about to occur.

The Lord tells us how the people "...bought, they sold, they planted, they builded...they did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage....and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away...." (Luke 17:27, Matt 24:39).

Please note how the ones that were taken away were destroyed - not evacuated. Indeed, Luke's account reads "and the flood came, and destroyed them all" (Luke 17:27). Although I've actually heard lying preachers intentionally try to twist the Lord's words by saying 'the ark got taken away,' Jesus makes it perfectly clear that it was those that "knew not" that the flood was coming that were taken away. Obviously, Noah and his family knew the flood was coming, so those that were taken away and subsequently destroyed were those that were living life as usual - eating, drinking, and marrying, etc. Such activities infer a broad cross-section of society that has no idea they are in enormous peril - or they simply do not believe the peril they have been told about is genuine.

Thus, when Jesus described "two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left" (Luke 17:34), he was plainly describing a judgment that is so discriminating and focused that it kills only one of two people in the same bed. When "two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left" (Luke 17:35), the death that sweeps away the one that is taken will kill one and leave the other in close proximity unscathed.

As if to make certain the disciples understood the meaning of this incredible prophecy, in Luke's rendition, we read how the disciples said unto him, "Where, Lord?" (Luke 17:36). It is apparent they were asking him where the ones that were taken had gone. His answer was "Wheresoever the body is, thither [there] will the eagles be gathered together" (Luke 17:37). In short, Christ responds that wherever there is a dead body, is where the eagles [read carrion, or vultures] will be "gathered together." In what has now become a colloquial expression, the LORD is simply saying 'if you want to know where a dead body is, look for the vultures.'

Furthermore, there is simply no other coherent explanation for this analogy. The fact is, if we reverse the application and try to make those that were taken away a rescue, the analogy is wildly inaccurate. This would show an errancy in the scriptural account - something we cannot accept as "the words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times" (Psalm 12:6). Along this same line of thought, I've learned that it is a spiritually deadly proposition to attempt to force the scriptures to conform to any interpretation. It's supposed to be the other way around. Thus, the analogy plainly tells us those that were "left behind" are the ones that were designated as worthy of survival.

It is worth noting at this juncture that it is because of the emotional and psychological process that begins when a rapture adherent reads material like this that I commonly refer to the rapture theology as a cult. To put it bluntly, these verses provide the 'smoking gun' evidence that the "left behind" teaching is a fraud - yet the majority of so called "Christians" value the truth so little, they will inevitably reject this most basic understanding because of their conditioning. It is, therefore, appropriate to ask 'is not such irrational behaviour a classic characteristic of a cult?'

 

[rebuilder 454]

When Christ described the conditions precedent to his return as being similar to "the days of Noe [Noah]" (Luke 17:26), he made a clear-cut analogy to the conditions of the time of the great flood. The picture is one of the world hurtling towards an enormous devastation with the overwhelming majority of people completely unaware of the reckoning that is about to occur.

The Lord tells us how the people "...bought, they sold, they planted, they builded...they did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage....and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away...." (Luke 17:27, Matt 24:39).

Please note how the ones that were taken away were destroyed - not evacuated. Indeed, Luke's account reads "and the flood came, and destroyed them all" (Luke 17:27). Although I've actually heard lying preachers intentionally try to twist the Lord's words by saying 'the ark got taken away,' Jesus makes it perfectly clear that it was those that "knew not" that the flood was coming that were taken away. Obviously, Noah and his family knew the flood was coming, so those that were taken away and subsequently destroyed were those that were living life as usual - eating, drinking, and marrying, etc. Such activities infer a broad cross-section of society that has no idea they are in enormous peril - or they simply do not believe the peril they have been told about is genuine.

Thus, when Jesus described "two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left" (Luke 17:34), he was plainly describing a judgment that is so discriminating and focused that it kills only one of two people in the same bed. When "two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left" (Luke 17:35), the death that sweeps away the one that is taken will kill one and leave the other in close proximity unscathed.

As if to make certain the disciples understood the meaning of this incredible prophecy, in Luke's rendition, we read how the disciples said unto him, "Where, Lord?" (Luke 17:36). It is apparent they were asking him where the ones that were taken had gone. His answer was "Wheresoever the body is, thither [there] will the eagles be gathered together" (Luke 17:37). In short, Christ responds that wherever there is a dead body, is where the eagles [read carrion, or vultures] will be "gathered together." In what has now become a colloquial expression, the LORD is simply saying 'if you want to know where a dead body is, look for the vultures.'

Furthermore, there is simply no other coherent explanation for this analogy. The fact is, if we reverse the application and try to make those that were taken away a rescue, the analogy is wildly inaccurate. This would show an errancy in the scriptural account - something we cannot accept as "the words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times" (Psalm 12:6). Along this same line of thought, I've learned that it is a spiritually deadly proposition to attempt to force the scriptures to conform to any interpretation. It's supposed to be the other way around. Thus, the analogy plainly tells us those that were "left behind" are the ones that were designated as worthy of survival.

It is worth noting at this juncture that it is because of the emotional and psychological process that begins when a rapture adherent reads material like this that I commonly refer to the rapture theology as a cult. To put it bluntly, these verses provide the 'smoking gun' evidence that the "left behind" teaching is a fraud - yet the majority of so called "Christians" value the truth so little, they will inevitably reject this most basic understanding because of their conditioning. It is, therefore, appropriate to ask 'is not such irrational behaviour a classic characteristic of a cult?'

Your analogy is incorrect.
1) you center on ALL the earth's inhabitants wiped out..nope
2) Jesus used the number of saved, VS left behind, as 50-50. Half taken, half left....and DID SO, in two separate analogies....So, by leaving several things like that out, the analogy can never be understood.
3) since half were taken and half left, it is OBVIOUS Jesus departed from the analogy of earth's population wiped out.
Half the world will never be saved vs unbelievers. ( your inference)
That alone has your conclusions as totally false.
4) your postrib rapture needs Noah gathered AFTER THE FLOOD.
5) Jesus used Noah and Lot TOGETHER as pretrib gatherings.( FACT...both gathered pretrib)
6) getting back to half taken/half left, that HAS TO BE a sub-group.
Out of a subgroup, not earth's entire population, is half of a group taken/left behind. ( you will never see half the planet as born again believers).
7) you made that entire interpretation by omitting components, and changing the Bible around.
Once ALL COMPONENTS are on the table, your interpretation fails big time.
Hard to believe how you claim such honor and biblical superiority, and call your opponents cults and such.
BTW there is NOBODY killed in a bed...yet another thing you totally made up.

 

[WPM]

Just read the parable and pretend half is not half.
Just keep pretending it is so.
Make a footnote in your postribber workbook.
Something like
" ha ha ha, Jesus said "half", how stupid"

The Bible says that there are "few" that make it. You make the "few" 50% of mankind. That is because you do not grasp the nature and thrust of parables. You also cherry pick whatever you want within them to support your error. Just like you make Revelation say whatever you want, you do the same with parables. That is because you do not comprehend the message behind the illustration. You also do not let the rest of Scripture shed light on their meaning.

 

[WPM]

Your analogy is incorrect.
1) you center on ALL the earth's inhabitants wiped out..nope
2) Jesus used the number of saved, VS left behind, as 50-50. Half taken, half left....and DID SO, in two separate analogies....So, by leaving several things like that out, the analogy can never be understood.
3) since half were taken and half left, it is OBVIOUS Jesus departed from the analogy of earth's population wiped out.
Half the world will never be saved vs unbelievers. ( your inference)
That alone has your conclusions as totally false.
4) your postrib rapture needs Noah gathered AFTER THE FLOOD.
5) Jesus used Noah and Lot TOGETHER as pretrib gatherings.( FACT...both gathered pretrib)
6) getting back to half taken/half left, that HAS TO BE a sub-group.
Out of a subgroup, not earth's entire population, is half of a group taken/left behind. ( you will never see half the planet as born again believers).
7) you made that entire interpretation by omitting components, and changing the Bible around.
Once ALL COMPONENTS are on the table, your interpretation fails big time.
Hard to believe how you claim such honor and biblical superiority, and call your opponents cults and such.
BTW there is NOBODY killed in a bed...yet another thing you totally made up.

• Does Jesus have 5 or 10 brides in your estimation?
• Do you have to be a female virgin to make the rapture?
• Do you have to have a literal lamp burning with oil at the actual moment Jesus comes to perform your Pretrib rapture?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

• Does Jesus have 5 or 10 brides in your estimation?
• Do you have to be a female virgin to make the rapture?
• Do you have to have a literal lamp burning with oil at the actual moment Jesus comes to perform your Pretrib rapture?

Maybe he thinks there are two raptures. One for female virgins and another for the 144,000 male virgins.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Maybe he thinks there are two raptures. One for female virgins and another for the 144,000 male virgins.

Maybe you like reframing the Bible since you demonstrate that regularly.
You can not honestly debate me

The Bible uses a 50% dynamic Bible. Once in mat 24, once in mat 25.
You, and your colleagues, are so busy perverting that , you miss what is said by me and the bible.

 

[rebuilder 454]

• Does Jesus have 5 or 10 brides in your estimation?
• Do you have to be a female virgin to make the rapture?
• Do you have to have a literal lamp burning with oil at the actual moment Jesus comes to perform your Pretrib rapture?

There it is folks.
He is unable to challenge me.
He is forced to go against the bible.
Keep making a fool of yourself.

 

[rebuilder 454]

The Bible says that there are "few" that make it. You make the "few" 50% of mankind. That is because you do not grasp the nature and thrust of parables. You also cherry pick whatever you want within them to support your error. Just like you make Revelation say whatever you want, you do the same with parables. That is because you do not comprehend the message behind the illustration. You also do not let the rest of Scripture shed light on their meaning.

You got a comprehension problem.
I am demonstrating that since "FEW" enter the kingdom, any of you that can read, should understand that the ones taken/ left can not possibly be half the earth's population.
Your ridiculous doctrine can not process such a BASIC FACT.
FACT, Jesus framed his coming with a half gathered group TWICE.( once in mat 24 , then in the SAME BREATH , I'm mat 25.
Please continue to challenge Jesus's words.
Go ahead show us how Jesus is mistaken.
Your deal is so false

...as you are demonstrating to all.

Pssssst...that means the half taken , are taken fron A SUB-GROUP.
Psssssst....that means that half left behind CANNOT POSSIBLY BE HALF OF EARTH'S POPULATION.

Amazing how your doctrine stumbles of a no-brainer.
...more like a fall off of a heretical teter- toter