Some key points pertaining to the parable per Luke 19:11-27.

[WPM]

Some doesn't mean all, therefore, only some Amils believe that, not all Amils do. I have heard numerous Amils reject that literal interpretation over the years. Granted, some of them are Preterists, not full Preterists though, at least not as far as I could tell. And that they claimed to be Amil since they agree with Amil that the thousand years are meaning now.

Which Amils reject a literal interpretation of the final conflagration?

 

[Johann]

You can disagree all you want but I've read of the kingdom of heaven upon earth many many times.

Jesus said many will come from the east and the west,and will take their places in the kingdom of heaven.I will be traveling east .There will be others who will travel west to go to the kingdom of heaven.



"many will come from the east and the west"

Mathew 8:11
I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.


Which way do you need to go to get to the kingdom of heaven ,east or west?

You are correct-Who is the builder and maker?

Hebrews 11:10 (NKJV):
"For he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God."

Revelation 21:2 (NKJV):
"Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."

Revelation 21:10-11 (NKJV):
"And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, having the glory of God. Her light was like a most precious stone, like a jasper stone, clear as crystal."

J.

 

[IndianaRob]

In your opinion then, the missing details pertaining to those coming out of their graves after Christ's resurrection aren't missing after all, they are found in Ezekiel 37? If so, I find that interesting though I don't interpret it like that myself.

As to me, the way I interpret that chapter is that there was an exile in 70 AD. Every exile that happened before that, there was always a return eventually. Where then is the return recorded involving the exile that occurred in 70 AD? Why not Ezekiel 37? Then when we get to Ezekiel 38 they are already back in their land. When they are back in their land per ch 38 that couldn't possibly be meaning before 70 AD but has to be meaning post 70 AD. Keeping in mind that post 70 AD can mean a cpl thousand years later.

There is no return from AD70 because AD70 wasn’t an exile it was the end of the nation of Israel forever. That was why Jesus said “you know that summer is nigh”. He was pointing to Amos 8.

Amo 8:1 Thus hath the Lord GOD shewed unto me: and behold a basket of summer fruit.
Amo 8:2 And he said, Amos, what seest thou? And I said, A basket of summer fruit. Then said the LORD unto me, The end is come upon my people of Israel; I will not again pass by them any more.

The rest of Amos 8 goes on to say that this will happen when “there shall be many dead bodies in every place; they shall cast them forth with silence.” AND when the sun goes dark at noon.

Both of those things happened at the cross. Many bodies of the saints were unearthed and the sun went dark at the 6th hour (noon) until the 9th hour.

 

[face2face]

In your opinion then, the missing details pertaining to those coming out of their graves after Christ's resurrection aren't missing after all, they are found in Ezekiel 37?

Those raised saints returned to the grave...but Ezekiel 37 speaks to the resurrection of a dead nation - one persecuted through the nations for thousands of years and one which is yet to acknowledge their messiah!

If so, I find that interesting though I don't interpret it like that myself.

As to me, the way I interpret that chapter is that there was an exile in 70 AD. Every exile that happened before that, there was always a return eventually. Where then is the return recorded involving the exile that occurred in 70 AD? Why not Ezekiel 37?

Ezek 37 is yet future, some believe it was the nation coming into existence in 1948, however this cannot be the case because they do not know (yet) their Messiah!

Then you will know that I am the Lord, when I open your graves and raise you from your graves, my people Eze 37:13.

Then when we get to Ezekiel 38 they are already back in their land. When they are back in their land per ch 38 that couldn't possibly be meaning before 70 AD but has to be meaning post 70 AD. Keeping in mind that post 70 AD can mean a cpl thousand years later.

Ezek 37 is speaking to the whole nation and the bringing together of the two sticks. This again is yet future.

F2F

 

[CadyandZoe]

What do you mean "some"?

We need to first of all realize that who God really is. Hebrews 12:29 tells us: “For our God is a consuming fire.” When He comes in majesty and glory no one left behind is going to escape His wrath. The coming of the Lord will be fiery and climactic. Jesus is returning in flaming fire. There will be no survivors. The evidence for this is overwhelming.

2 Samuel 22:9 states: "There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it."

Job 41:20-21 explains: "Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron. His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth."

Psalm 18:7-8 instructs: "the earth shook and trembled; the foundations also of the hills moved and were shaken, because he was wroth. There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it."

Psalm 68: 1-3 declares, "Let God arise, let his enemies be scattered: let them also that hate him flee before him. As smoke is driven away, so drive them away: as wax melteth before the fire, so let the wicked perish at the presence of God. But let the righteous be glad; let them rejoice before God: yea, let them exceedingly rejoice.”

Psalm 97:3-5 testifies, “A fire goeth before him, and burneth up his enemies round about. His lightnings enlightened the world: the earth saw, and trembled. The hills melted like wax at the presence of the LORD, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.”

Isaiah 11:4-5 records: "But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins."

Isaiah 13:9 says, “Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.”

Isaiah 30:33: "For Tophet is ordained of old; yea, for the king it is prepared; he hath made it deep and large: the pile thereof is fire and much wood; the breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it."

Isaiah 33:13-17 warns us: “Hear, ye that are far off, what I have done; and, ye that are near, acknowledge my might.The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?” He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil; He shall dwell on high: his place of defence shall be the munitions of rocks: bread shall be given him; his waters shall besure. Thine eyes shall see the king in his beauty: they shall behold the land that is very far off.

Isaiah 66:15-17: “For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many. They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.”

Joel 2:1-3 says, “for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand; A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations. A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.”

Joel 2:10-11: “The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining: And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?”

Nahum 1:5-6 says, “The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein. Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.”

Malachi says, "For behold, the dayis coming, burning like an oven, and all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble. And the day whicHis coming shall burn them up" (Malachi 4:1).

Here you have it!!!

Jesus said in Luke 17:29-30, “the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.”

It describes the swiftness and the scope. This is supported by much other Scripture.

Jesus said in Luke 21:33-36: “Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.”

This passage locates the passing away of heaven and earth at the second coming and demonstrates, like in Noah’s day, it will come “as a snare … on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.”

I Thessalonians 5:2-3: “the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.”

Paul says, “the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day” (II Thessalonians 1:7-10).

How could the wicked survive this? It is impossible!

Amils take this literal! This is complete, wholesale, and total destruction - for those left behind. There are no survivors! There are no goats left to enter into the supposed Premil future millennium!!!

How does anyone left behind survive this? What unsaved person is exempt from this description “them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ”?

Typical diversion. David is raising a good question. If Jesus is going away to receive a kingdom, then how can you say it already exists?

 

[face2face]

There is no return from AD70 because AD70 wasn’t an exile it was the end of the nation of Israel forever.

This is wrong.

Your Hope, is the same Hope Paul was chained to...The Hope of Israel.

God is not finished with His people - so many lose ends!

F2F

 

[face2face]

Typical diversion. David is raising a good question. If Jesus is going away to receive a kingdom, then how can you say it already exists?

Only in hearts.

 

[Davidpt]

In relation to the sacrifices: I can see how it could be instituted, and I can also see how it will not be necessary.

Here's something to ponder if some of these Amils are correct that the entire planet is literally engulfed in flames once Christ returns. There won't be any animals to sacrifice. The entire animal kingdom will have been burned up, as in no more animals, period. I wonder why some of these Amils don't use that as an argument? Or if they do, I guess I never heard that argument from them before.

 

[face2face]

Here's something to ponder if some of these Amils are correct that the entire planet is literally engulfed in flames once Christ returns.

Don't take this the wrong way, but the Word of God is rather nuanced and tends to exaggerate to convey the seriousness of the situation being conveyed. Yes, there will be destruction when the Lord returns and yes, certain parts of the World will be more afflicted than others...esp those anti-Semitic and Catholic nations. He will be viewed as the Anti-Christ, and many will seek to destroy him.

There won't be any animals to sacrifice. The entire animal kingdom will have been burned up, as in no more animals, period. I wonder why some of these Amils don't use that as an argument? Or if they do, I guess I never heard that argument from them before.

This is crazy nonsense.

F2F

 

[Johann]

Ezek 37 is yet future, some believe it was the nation coming into existence in 1948, however this cannot be the case because they do not know (yet) their Messiah!

Then you will know that I am the Lord, when I open your graves and raise you from your graves, my people Eze 37:13.

Correct-this has NOTHING to do with 1948 so who are the modern Yehudi?
Reason why I ask is that the Jewish genealogies during the destruction of the Second Temple by Titus in 70 A.D were destroyed.

The information regarding the loss of Jewish genealogies during the destruction of the Second Temple by Titus in 70 A.D. is derived from various historical accounts, including Jewish and Roman sources, though no single ancient text explicitly states that all genealogies were destroyed. The idea is based on a few key historical and scholarly insights:

Josephus – A Jewish historian who lived during the time of the Roman siege and destruction of Jerusalem, recorded the events surrounding the destruction of the Temple. While Josephus doesn’t specifically mention the destruction of genealogical records, his works such as The Jewish War and Antiquities of the Jews provide detailed accounts of the destruction of the city and the Temple, which included the loss of religious and cultural records.

The Temple's Central Role – The Temple in Jerusalem was not only a place of worship but also a repository for important records. These included genealogical records used for determining tribal affiliations, especially for the Levitical priesthood. With the destruction of the Temple, it is assumed that such records were lost along with other important cultural artifacts.

Rabbinic Tradition – Jewish rabbinic sources such as the Talmud also indirectly acknowledge that genealogical purity became problematic after the destruction of the Temple. For example, Mishnah Kiddushin 4:1 indicates that genealogical records were maintained prior to the Temple’s destruction but became more difficult to verify afterward.

Modern Scholarship – Historians and scholars today infer that with the Roman destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple, it is likely that the genealogical records were destroyed along with other important documents, making it difficult for Jews in later centuries to definitively trace their ancestry to specific tribes, especially the Levites and priests (Kohanim).

These sources provide a historical and contextual basis for the belief that the genealogical records were likely lost when the Temple was destroyed, affecting Jewish religious and tribal identity in the years that followed.

Maybe you have more verifiable sources?
J.

 

[IndianaRob]

This is wrong.

Your Hope, is the same Hope Paul was chained to...The Hope of Israel.

God is not finished with His people - so many lose ends!

F2F

Ok you explain Amos 8 then. The hope of Israel is in Jesus Christ not the nation of Israel.

 

[Johann]

If Jesus is going away to receive a kingdom, then how can you say it already exists?

We can approach it by explaining the nature of the kingdom of God as both a present reality and a future fulfillment.

The Kingdom is Already Present:
Jesus proclaimed the kingdom of God during His earthly ministry, indicating that it was already present in a certain sense. For example:

Luke 17:20-21 (NKJV):
"Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, 'The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, "See here!" or "See there!" For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.'"
This shows that the kingdom was already present spiritually in Jesus’ ministry and in the hearts of believers.

Jesus is King Now, But the Fullness is Yet to Come:
While Jesus reigns as King, the full realization of His kingdom will come in the future. Jesus' ascension and receiving of the kingdom refer to His ultimate authority being recognized universally. In Matthew 28:18 (NKJV), Jesus says, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth,” affirming His current kingship.

Yet, we also see in Hebrews 2:8 (NKJV):
"You have put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that He put all in subjection under him, He left nothing that is not put under him. But now we do not yet see all things put under him."
This reveals the tension between Christ's current reign and the future manifestation of His rule.

Jesus' Parable of the Minas (Luke 19:12-15):
In this parable, Jesus speaks of a nobleman (representing Himself) who goes away to receive a kingdom and then return. The parable illustrates that while Jesus was going away (His ascension), He would return (His second coming) to fully establish His kingdom. The kingdom already exists, but Jesus’ departure signifies a period of waiting until His return, when the full visible reign will be established.

The Kingdom is Now and Not Yet:
Theologically, the kingdom of God is often described as "already but not yet." It is already present because Christ’s rule is evident in the hearts of believers and in the work of the church. But it is not yet fully realized until His second coming, when His kingdom will be fully established on earth. This is reflected in passages like:

Revelation 11:15 (NKJV):
"The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!"

You agree?
J.

 

[face2face]

Correct-this has NOTHING to do with 1948 so who are the modern Yehudi?
Reason why I ask is that the Jewish genealogies during the destruction of the Second Temple by Titus in 70 A.D were destroyed.

The information regarding the loss of Jewish genealogies during the destruction of the Second Temple by Titus in 70 A.D. is derived from various historical accounts, including Jewish and Roman sources, though no single ancient text explicitly states that all genealogies were destroyed. The idea is based on a few key historical and scholarly insights:

Josephus – A Jewish historian who lived during the time of the Roman siege and destruction of Jerusalem, recorded the events surrounding the destruction of the Temple. While Josephus doesn’t specifically mention the destruction of genealogical records, his works such as The Jewish War and Antiquities of the Jews provide detailed accounts of the destruction of the city and the Temple, which included the loss of religious and cultural records.

The Temple's Central Role – The Temple in Jerusalem was not only a place of worship but also a repository for important records. These included genealogical records used for determining tribal affiliations, especially for the Levitical priesthood. With the destruction of the Temple, it is assumed that such records were lost along with other important cultural artifacts.

Rabbinic Tradition – Jewish rabbinic sources such as the Talmud also indirectly acknowledge that genealogical purity became problematic after the destruction of the Temple. For example, Mishnah Kiddushin 4:1 indicates that genealogical records were maintained prior to the Temple’s destruction but became more difficult to verify afterward.

Modern Scholarship – Historians and scholars today infer that with the Roman destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple, it is likely that the genealogical records were destroyed along with other important documents, making it difficult for Jews in later centuries to definitively trace their ancestry to specific tribes, especially the Levites and priests (Kohanim).

These sources provide a historical and contextual basis for the belief that the genealogical records were likely lost when the Temple was destroyed, affecting Jewish religious and tribal identity in the years that followed.

Maybe you have more verifiable sources?
J.

Agree with this J.

It's a very large subject, which considers many prophecies probably not for this thread.

Scripture informs us the regathering of the people of Israel who until recently there is now more in Israel, than scattered.

The current population of Israel is 9,413,583 as of Saturday, September 14, 2024, based on Worldometer's elaboration of the latest United Nations data1. Israel 2024 population is estimated at 9,387,021 people at mid year.

How are the two sticks brought together? And how to identify their ancestry?

Will this be the work of Elijah & the Saints?

F2F

 

[face2face]

Ok you explain Amos 8 then. The hope of Israel is in Jesus Christ not the nation of Israel.

Correct.

I'll give you a section of Scripture I want you to read carefully and then I will come back to you.

MUST read it carefully!

The Lord Calls on Israel and Judah to Repent 3:12 “Go and shout this message to my people in the countries in the north. Tell them, ‘Come back to me, wayward Israel,’ says the Lord. ‘I will not continue to look on you with displeasure. For I am merciful,’ says the Lord. ‘I will not be angry with you forever. 3:13 However, you must confess that you have done wrong, and that you have rebelled against the Lord your God. You must confess that you have given yourself to foreign gods under every green tree, and have not obeyed my commands,’ says the Lord. 3:14 “Come back to me, my wayward sons,” says the Lord, “for I am your true master. If you do, I will take one of you from each town and two of you from each family group, and I will bring you back to Zion. 3:15 I will give you leaders who will be faithful to me. They will lead you with knowledge and insight. 3:16 In those days, your population will greatly increase in the land. At that time,” says the Lord, “people will no longer talk about having the ark that contains the Lord’s covenant with us. They will not call it to mind, remember it, or miss it. No, that will not be done any more! 3:17 At that time the city of Jerusalem will be called the Lord’s throne.

Je 3:12–17.

I'm going to ask you some questions on this, so once again, read it slowly and carefully!

F2F

 

[Davidpt]

Ezek 37 is yet future, some believe it was the nation coming into existence in 1948, however this cannot be the case because they do not know (yet) their Messiah!

I wouldn't be so sure about that if I were you. Those currently occupying that region fit to a T someone God would still be hiding His face from. It is not until He executes His judgment on Gog and his multitude that He is then no longer hiding His face from them. Obviously, He is yet to execute His judgment on Gog and his multitude. No way has that already happened in the past. Even Jews that know their history like the back of their hands know nothing about Ezekiel 38-39 having ever been fulfilled any time in the past. That war is still future to them. Not that you are disagreeing that Ezekiel 38-39 is still future in regards to a lot of it.

Yet, some Christians do disagree it is future. Wonder why Jews don't agree with them? Because if anyone should know their history, you would think it would be them. And they agree it is still future.

 

[IndianaRob]

Correct.

I'll give you a section of Scripture I want you to read carefully and then I will come back to you.

MUST read it carefully!

The Lord Calls on Israel and Judah to Repent 3:12 “Go and shout this message to my people in the countries in the north. Tell them, ‘Come back to me, wayward Israel,’ says the Lord. ‘I will not continue to look on you with displeasure. For I am merciful,’ says the Lord. ‘I will not be angry with you forever. 3:13 However, you must confess that you have done wrong, and that you have rebelled against the Lord your God. You must confess that you have given yourself to foreign gods under every green tree, and have not obeyed my commands,’ says the Lord. 3:14 “Come back to me, my wayward sons,” says the Lord, “for I am your true master. If you do, I will take one of you from each town and two of you from each family group, and I will bring you back to Zion. 3:15 I will give you leaders who will be faithful to me. They will lead you with knowledge and insight. 3:16 In those days, your population will greatly increase in the land. At that time,” says the Lord, “people will no longer talk about having the ark that contains the Lord’s covenant with us. They will not call it to mind, remember it, or miss it. No, that will not be done any more! 3:17 At that time the city of Jerusalem will be called the Lord’s throne.

Je 3:12–17.

I'm going to ask you some questions on this, so once again, read it slowly and carefully!

F2F

I’m familiar with that passage, go ahead with your questions

 

[face2face]

I wouldn't be so sure about that if I were you. Those currently occupying that region fit to a T someone God would still be hiding His face from. It is not until He executes His judgment on Gog and his multitude that He is then no longer hiding His face from them.

Correct.

Obviously, He is yet to execute His judgment on Gog and his multitude. No way has that already happened in the past. Even Jews that know their history like the back of their hands know nothing about Ezekiel 38-39 having ever been fulfilled any time in the past.

Agree.

That war is still future to them. Not that you are disagreeing that Ezekiel 38-39 is still future in regards to a lot of it.
Yet, some do disagree it is future.

No still future

Wonder why Jews don't agree with them? Because if anyone should know their history, you would think it would be them. And they agree it is still future.

Many of them are no longer religous.

About 20% are self declared atheists

Hence the purging/refining which is coming!

F2F

 

[face2face]

I’m familiar with that passage, go ahead with your questions

How can you prove this is talking to a regathered Israel (natural) who are now in Christ?

Future still to be fulfilled!

 

[Johann]

Agree with this J.

It's a very large subject, which considers many prophecies probably not for this thread.

Scripture informs us the regathering of the people of Israel who until recently there is now more in Israel, than scattered.

The current population of Israel is 9,413,583 as of Saturday, September 14, 2024, based on Worldometer's elaboration of the latest United Nations data1. Israel 2024 population is estimated at 9,387,021 people at mid year.

How are the two sticks brought together? And how to identify their ancestry?

Will this be the work of Elijah & the Saints?

F2F

Correct again, this should be for another thread F2F.

The concept of the two sticks being brought together is rooted in the prophecy of Ezekiel 37:15-28, where God instructs Ezekiel to take two sticks, one representing Judah (the Southern Kingdom) and the other representing Ephraim (the Northern Kingdom or Israel), and join them together as a symbol of the reunification of the divided kingdom of Israel. This prophetic act signifies the coming restoration and unity of the people of Israel under one king and covenant.

1. How are the Two Sticks Brought Together?
The prophecy in Ezekiel indicates that God Himself will bring about this reunification:

Ezekiel 37:19 (NKJV):
“Thus says the Lord GOD: ‘Surely I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel, his companions; and I will join them with it, with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they will be one in My hand.’”
In this prophecy, the reunification is accomplished by God’s sovereign act. It reflects both a physical restoration of the nation (as seen in the return of Israel from exile and future eschatological fulfillment) and a spiritual restoration under the Messiah.

Eze 37:19 Say unto them, Thus saith Adonoi Hashem: Hinei, I will take the Etz Yosef, which is in the Yad Ephrayim, and the Shivtei Yisroel his chaverim, and will put them with him, even with the Etz Yehudah, and make them Etz Echad, and they shall be Echad in Mine Yad.

2. How to Identify Their Ancestry?
After the destruction of the Northern Kingdom by the Assyrians in 722 B.C., many of the ten tribes of Israel were scattered (often referred to as the "lost tribes of Israel"). By the time of the New Testament, the distinction between the tribes became less clear, and genealogical records were disrupted, especially after the destruction of the Temple in 70 A.D..

However, prophecy speaks of God knowing the identity of all the tribes, regardless of whether humans can trace them. Ezekiel 37:21 (NKJV) indicates that God will gather them:
"Then say to them, 'Thus says the Lord GOD: "Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land."'"
God’s gathering and reunification of the tribes will be based on His divine knowledge of their identity, even if humans cannot fully trace their ancestry.


The return of Elijah is prophesied in Malachi 4:5-6 (NKJV):
"Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD. And he will turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers, lest I come and strike the earth with a curse."

Elijah’s role appears to be a forerunner to the coming of the Lord, likely preparing people for repentance and reconciliation. While Elijah is not explicitly linked to the work of uniting the two sticks, his ministry in preparing Israel could be seen as part of the broader restoration of the people.

I have more info but don't want to derail the thread brother.
J.

 

[face2face]

Correct again, this should be for another thread F2F.

The concept of the two sticks being brought together is rooted in the prophecy of Ezekiel 37:15-28, where God instructs Ezekiel to take two sticks, one representing Judah (the Southern Kingdom) and the other representing Ephraim (the Northern Kingdom or Israel), and join them together as a symbol of the reunification of the divided kingdom of Israel. This prophetic act signifies the coming restoration and unity of the people of Israel under one king and covenant.

1. How are the Two Sticks Brought Together?
The prophecy in Ezekiel indicates that God Himself will bring about this reunification:

Ezekiel 37:19 (NKJV):
“Thus says the Lord GOD: ‘Surely I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel, his companions; and I will join them with it, with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they will be one in My hand.’”
In this prophecy, the reunification is accomplished by God’s sovereign act. It reflects both a physical restoration of the nation (as seen in the return of Israel from exile and future eschatological fulfillment) and a spiritual restoration under the Messiah.

Eze 37:19 Say unto them, Thus saith Adonoi Hashem: Hinei, I will take the Etz Yosef, which is in the Yad Ephrayim, and the Shivtei Yisroel his chaverim, and will put them with him, even with the Etz Yehudah, and make them Etz Echad, and they shall be Echad in Mine Yad.

2. How to Identify Their Ancestry?
After the destruction of the Northern Kingdom by the Assyrians in 722 B.C., many of the ten tribes of Israel were scattered (often referred to as the "lost tribes of Israel"). By the time of the New Testament, the distinction between the tribes became less clear, and genealogical records were disrupted, especially after the destruction of the Temple in 70 A.D..

However, prophecy speaks of God knowing the identity of all the tribes, regardless of whether humans can trace them. Ezekiel 37:21 (NKJV) indicates that God will gather them:
"Then say to them, 'Thus says the Lord GOD: "Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land."'"
God’s gathering and reunification of the tribes will be based on His divine knowledge of their identity, even if humans cannot fully trace their ancestry.


The return of Elijah is prophesied in Malachi 4:5-6 (NKJV):
"Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD. And he will turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers, lest I come and strike the earth with a curse."

Elijah’s role appears to be a forerunner to the coming of the Lord, likely preparing people for repentance and reconciliation. While Elijah is not explicitly linked to the work of uniting the two sticks, his ministry in preparing Israel could be seen as part of the broader restoration of the people.

I have more info but don't want to derail the thread brother.
J.

You should start a thread as there is a lot to share on this! I am amazed you have this understanding J. It's unique and those who hold it are richly blessed.

F2F