Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Yes, Which means Paul would have struggled with this Pride within him
Remember, Paul had much to be proud of. It would be so easy for him to tell everyone and boast in himself..
Leaders That Don't Support Good Works or Overcoming Sin
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Remember, Paul had much to be proud of. It would be so easy for him to tell everyone and boast in himself..
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Yes, I think we all have our sins.
sadly, I fear if people do not struggle with certain sins, they think they are alright..
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Ok once again you said Most do not follow christ but follow the flesh.
most who?
John said those born of God can not practice sin. So who is these people you are talking about? Unless they are lost. In which case, we do not need to judge them, we need to lead them to christ so they can have victory like the rest of Gods people
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Jesus said it
The greatest command is to love God. The second is like it. To love our neighbor. Who is our neighbor? Anyone we come in contact with.
The paul followed it up. Seek after the things of the spirit and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.
If I do these things, as jesus said, i will follow the law by practice. Not because I am great. Not because i am special. but because I removed self. And put the needs of others above my own.
That is how we crucify the flesh.. by not giving it any power.. by continually loving others.
1 John immediately comes to mind brother and I fear many have already attained to a state of perfection way ahead of Paul and not believing in progressive sanctification but would rely on experiences and second blessings over and above of what stands written.
Keep up the good work.
J.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
If he can get anyone to think they made it. He has won a great victory. Because that person will tend to start judging everyone else. And boasting in himself (he being satan)
There are many judgments, insinuations, and nuances often directed at fellow believers using scriptures, typically taken out of context. Discernment is crucial.
Of course we live by faith and not by experiences.......it is through faith that we sometimes have "experiences". But we do not live by them or seek them out. It is as the Spirit wills.
I take it you have listened to these video clips? Scripture do ruffle the feathers a tad.
Especially if we are willing to come to the Light.
Glad we are in agreement re the experiences.
My quotes are from your post, so obviously you meant something else. Thats fine, I am just expanding on what I was
saying about how we empathise and reach out to others.
The thread is about leaders and how they preach and lead.
So I am responding to that subject. It is too easy to get wrapped up in labels or trying to put people in boxes.
Jesus spoke to the Pharisees addressing why they would not listen to Him because they did not have love in their hearts.
The same thing happens today. People argue over what Jesus and Paul said and its interpretation but the guiding principle
is the love and work He has done in us. So the closer we come to Jesus the more clearly we see what He means.
So much of what we like in terms of emphasis, is because of where we are emotionally. So ex-legalists believe the world
is either hypocritical legalists or humbled sinners just pointing to Jesus. If nothing else changes within then that is kept
as a time capsule that defines life and obviously everyone else is just as defined.
Thank the Lord He comes beside us each day and encourages us to walk further with Him.
God bless you
That's what I've been saying all along Johann. No, I didn't watch the videos. I don't need cessationists trying to teach me about things of the Spirit, but thank you anyway.
Sometimes, we waste the precious time we've been given with our dogmatism and pride, neglecting the opportunity to truly study and understand. Our Bibles often remain closed, and when we do quote, it’s just a verse here or there to strengthen our argument, twisting the Scriptures to say what they don’t. As it is written, 'they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge' (Romans 10:2).
Regarding Utley, he is not a cessationist. But because of our unwillingness to genuinely search the Scriptures, you may never know.
Shalom.
J.
God has been leading my learning and study brother and I find Him to be an able Teacher. Sometimes I will listen to a video, or part of one, if I feel inclined for any reason, but that is not very often.
Isn't Utley a Baptist? From what I saw when I looked into him a bit. Baptists are cessationist to my knowledge. I tried listening to one video of his that you posted on another thread but his voice was hurting my ears....I have tinnitus and somehow with the frequency of his voice it was hard to listen to. And for me, I don't like being dragged into the realm of the intellect.....used to having the Lord show me things very simply by simply illuminating scripture. (Not that I disparage the scholarly examination of scripture for those who are so inclined, I believe it has its uses as long as we aren't placing our reliance on it. )
lol. Brother I still have a lot to learn without a doubt, but I resolved a long time ago to bring my thoughts CAPTIVE to His word.........and have learned so much since then. I only think and speak bible-ese now and am highly suspicious of man-made terminology and man-made anything for that matter.
Once I asked the Lord why the life of the Spirit is quenched (brought to death!) in so many churches....and He answered me with a single word. "Artificial". Well, artificial means man-made. Like stones hewn by human hands. Anything not of His spirit is man-made. His word, the words of scripture, is of His spirit and is not man-made.
No problem, my wife was the same and believe the Scriptures in a very simplistic way with a style of life reflecting Jesus Christ to all and sundry-she was well known in Durban.
In the end is not what we know but how we live.
I'm just tired of denominational-ism and disagreements in the body of Christ Jesus.
Shalom
J.
I get tired of arguing too, all the more since I'm getting older. But we do come here to discuss and try to iron things out and it's inevitable that there are areas of disagreement. But overall I have grown and learned a lot from my time on forums. Because there is more freedom, it allows for more exercising of spiritual senses and some "gifts" than is allowed by the structure, or time given to, or fear of offending, in many Christian circles. I agree, it's not about what we know....knowledge is just for the purpose of changing us, like stepping stones...........light unto our path....leading us to love I believe, love being the more excellent way. (God's love though, not natural love).
"But judgement belongs to God"
There is tension here. If we say there is no judgement, no accounting for actions good or bad, there are no courts,
no prisons, no judges, no police, no army. Right judgement with grace and mercy is what Jesus calls for.
He criticised the Pharisees for not putting into practice "justice, mercy and faithfulness"
We need to know what love from our hearts means and how to restrain evil sinful behaviour in a just way.
So you come across two christians fighting each other physically. Do you just leave them and say you understand
the anger both have or do you intervene? After intervening do you resolve the issues and exclude those who
refuse to change their approach and behaviour repenting of the sin?
In church culture everyone knows 100% such behaviour would cause exclusion of the individuals from all social activities
until they can behave appropriately. Put simply this is not judging, this is enforcing safety for everyone involved in one
to one contact.
But in these discussions it is easy to miss the simple day to day agreement about how we interact with everyone. Sin is
just the destructive behaviour that literally hurts others and leads to the destruction of one another and eventually death
if not resolved. I always think of adultery, which is so often downplayed as just a mistake, falling for temptation rather
than a betrayal of trust and intimacy of ones partner, wife or husband. The Lord exalts this to equivalent to murder, because
so much hangs on a relationship which is the foundation of families and everyone in society.
Repentance is the door to forgiveness, with a broken and humble heart. It is accepting back the repentant believer that
Jesus is talking about. God bless you
Amen.
What has struck me about Paul and his writings is to understand them you have to feel what he is feeling, and get the context.
In someways that is impossible, until you find everything he is writing flows from ones own heart.
When I was young reading Pauls letter I could feel the emotion but not understand where it was coming from or why.
So when we theologise studying the grammer and emphasis of words that paints a certain type of picture. The problem
is without the right emotional context it could mean so many different things.
Paul wanted to convey in Romans his struggle with the desire to walk righteously yet being defeated by his own emotional
and behavioural reactions. His answer was to walk with the spirit, to sow to the spirit, to have love applied to and from his
heart. He achieved a position where he was happy to say his life example was so good and shinning to Gods glory that
people should follow his example as he followed Christ's. That is not a man who was struggling with besetting sin or finding
difficulty following love guiding his path.
Pauls highest ethic was perfection. Aim for perfection.
Our problem is not that it is not achievable, is the instant emotional condemnation of our struggles and failures popup
straight away. What we do not see is that is the prison bars exerting themselves from our past behaviour and family
patterns and bad experiences that we still carry. But it is something we can work on.
Jesus loves us, His love changes everything, but we need to apply this in forgiveness, in gaining confidence that the Lord
believes in us and our ability through His work in our hearts to be children of the Lord.
My take on denominations is emotional expression of our standing before God and what feels best for us. Each has
its value, but it is just a framework. Those who follow Jesus get to understand this. God bless you
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
The question is , WHAT IS LOVE . and no dont think of that old song either .
Lets look at what you first wrote . WHAT IS THE GREATEST COMMANDMENT . TO LOVE WHO above all
GOD , HIS CHRIST . i sure dont seem to see that at all with most folks .
WHAT is the greatest commandment of all .
What is the greastest commandment of all . TO LOVE GOD
So tell me eternally greatful , Do a man REALLY LOVE GOD if HE LOVETH NOT JESUS THE CHRIST .
NO SIR .
SO that JUST RULED OUT EVERY NON BELEIVER and FALSE RELIGOIN . THEY DO NOT LOVE GOD pardner .
IF THEY REJECT JESUS as the CHRIST , THEY HAVE already FAILED THE FIRST AND GREATEST COMMANDMENT of all .
NO WONDER their version of love your neighbor AINT SAVING , CORRECTING SQUAT .
GOD said you shall NOT hate your neighbor in your heart
you shall in any way CORRECT THEM , and not allow SIN upon them . GUESS a lot of folks SURE DONT SEEM
to LOVE GOD or what HE said very much at all .
SEEKER FRIENDLY WAS OF SATAN . it leaves folks in darkness , sin and unbelief and the only belief
they have is in some other jesus , some other love , some other god . WE got DUPED friend .
DUPED . DID you know that sinners sure can LOVE other sinners . SURE can , its the love of the world kind of love .
WHAT did JESUS warn .
marvel not if the world hate you , if you were OF THE WORLD , the world would .............LOVE ITS OWN .
YEAH , THEY can LOVE but its the wrong version pardner . I SEE THIS KINDA love has now infected christendom .
But if one finds this hard to believe . GO into the churches that often holler all day GOD is love
dont judge , stop judging haters , and you see who is accepted and then see WHO an WHAT gets rejected .
GOD be rejected , CERTAIN words GET SHUT OUT , they love sin homie they dont want the biblical GOD no more or his people .
WE been duped . leaven left uncorrected TOOK them chruches down . DOWN .
Amen. Churches have been too soft on sin for too long. Cross-less Christianity, offending no-one. Lost their saltiness. No fear of the Lord either. This makes them little more than social, psychology, philosophy and even political clubs. There's a need to toughen up some, like good soldiers of the cross....but that will only happen if people see where they are going wrong. And if by grace they do start to see, they tend to leave those worldly churches. You know brother, in one way, I believe Egypt and Sodom are types/allegories of erring "churches" that God calls His sheep out of, to go to Him outside the camp, those He rescues. And then what happened to Egypt and Sodom....after the righteous left, they got judged and it wasn't a pretty picture. (I think the allegory is spiritual death and destruction...dead and lifeless places.)
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