Book of Daniel - Relevant time periods

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Douggg

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Verses 37 to 40 specifically tell us there are 4 kingdoms. Does verse 39 mention “a 3rd kingdom?” Does verse 40 mention “a 4th kingdom?”
The fifth kingdom is in verses 41-45.

....................................................................................a. Babylonian empire (verses 37-38) - gold
....................................................................................b. Medes-Persian empire (verse 39) - silver
....................................................................................c. Greek empire (verse 39) - brass
....................................................................................d. Roman empire (verse 40) - iron
....................................................................................e. end times empire (verse 41-45) - iron mixed with clay

Do you see anywhere in Chapter 2 7 or 8 ANY mention of a 5th kingdom?
Chapter 2 does.

Chapter 7 does not, directly

Chapter 8 actually has in verses 20-23....

1. the kingdom of the Medes/Persians. verse 20
2. the kingdom of Greece. verse 21
3. 4. 5. 6. the kingdoms (4) of the breakup of Greek empire. verse 22
7. the kingdom of the transgressors (the little horn and the ten kings). verse 23

The Babylonian kingdom is not mentioned in Daniel 8.
 

Douggg

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I have identified the 5th kingdom as the EU.

At the time of the end, the fourth kingdom of iron will have faded away (around 476 AD) to re-emerge as a kingdom of iron and clay, indicating some parts of it in the end times will be strong, some parts weak. Thus, being a 5th kingdom, an end times version of the fourth kingdom.

That 5th kingdom has manifested itself as the EU. The EU did not exist at the time of Jesus. The EEC was founded by the treaty of Rome in 1957, and has since evolved into the EU.

We are living in the end times. In the time of the little horn and the ten kings. The little horn will eventually become dictator of the EU, as the beast-king of Revelation.
 
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CTK

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The fifth kingdom is in verses 41-45.

....................................................................................a. Babylonian empire (verses 37-38) - gold
....................................................................................b. Medes-Persian empire (verse 39) - silver
....................................................................................c. Greek empire (verse 39) - brass
....................................................................................d. Roman empire (verse 40) - iron
....................................................................................e. end times empire (verse 41-45) - iron mixed with clay


Chapter 2 does.

Chapter 7 does not, directly

Chapter 8 actually has in verses 20-23....

1. the kingdom of the Medes/Persians. verse 20
2. the kingdom of Greece. verse 21
3. 4. 5. 6. the kingdoms (4) of the breakup of Greek empire. verse 22
7. the kingdom of the transgressors (the little horn and the ten kings). verse 23

The Babylonian kingdom is not mentioned in Daniel 8.
Absolutely not. This is literally all in your head. God specifically identified Babylon as the first, then another AFTER him, then He literally called out a 3rd and a 4th. That was it. If there was a 5th, He would have said so AFTER verse 40, and, He would have said so in 7 and 8.

YOU have decided there must be a 5th to fit your interpretation.

There is no reason to continue trying to discuss Daniel with you. You completely ignore what is literally written in the verses. Good luck.
 

Douggg

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Absolutely not. This is literally all in your head. God specifically identified Babylon as the first, then another AFTER him, then He literally called out a 3rd and a 4th.
Not in my head, but in your head. (smiles)

The words first and second are not in the text. While the words third and fourth are specifically tied to brass and iron.

37 Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory.

38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.

39 And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.

40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.
 

Douggg

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There is no reason to continue trying to discuss Daniel with you. You completely ignore what is literally written in the verses. Good luck.
I have been coping and pasting the text of the kjv bible. And highlighting, by color coding, bolding, and underlining what is literally written in the verses.

"time of the end" is not found in the book of Daniel in your bible ?
 

CTK

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I have been coping and pasting the text of the kjv bible. And highlighting, by color coding, bolding, and underlining what is literally written in the verses.

"time of the end" is not found in the book of Daniel in your bible ?
You completely ignore the text and decide there is a 5th kingdom and you know very well that Daniel and later Gabriel do not speak of, mention or infer a 5th kingdom.

Just because you cut / paste a verse does not prove anything. It is so clear that both Daniel and Gabriel have specifically called out ONLY 4 kingdoms.

The 4th kingdom of Rome is identified as having legs of iron and feet of iron and clay. There is a definite purpose for the 4th kingdom to have the clay WITHIN it. You refuse to accept what is written- it is not my interpretation. It is literally given to us to ensure God has brought forth ONLY these 4 kingdoms to reveal His Messianic prophecies through.

But you are entitled to your interpretations but I have to move on. This is the reason for Chapter 2- to establish the kingdom structure where ALL the verses in the 12 chapters will fall. And the reason you need to make a 5th kingdom is because you NEED to send these prophecies in Daniel to the “end times.” Daniel is not about the end times.
 

Douggg

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The 4th kingdom of Rome is identified as having legs of iron and feet of iron and clay.
The fourth kingdom is the Roman Empire, legs of iron. But not the fifth kingdom, feet of iron and clay.
 

Douggg

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It is literally given to us to ensure God has brought forth ONLY these 4 kingdoms to reveal His Messianic prophecies through.
Jesus did not appear as the messiah during the Babylonian, Medes-Persians, Greek, kingdoms.

Jesus's First Coming was during the Roman Empire.

Jesus's Second Coming will be during the EU,

Do you think Jesus's Second Coming has be fulfilled back in the days of the Roman Empire, that ended in 476 AD (look up end of the Roman Empire on the internet) ?
 

Davidpt

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The fifth kingdom is in verses 41-45.

....................................................................................a. Babylonian empire (verses 37-38) - gold
....................................................................................b. Medes-Persian empire (verse 39) - silver
....................................................................................c. Greek empire (verse 39) - brass
....................................................................................d. Roman empire (verse 40) - iron
....................................................................................e. end times empire (verse 41-45) - iron mixed with clay


Chapter 2 does.

Chapter 7 does not, directly

Chapter 8 actually has in verses 20-23....

1. the kingdom of the Medes/Persians. verse 20
2. the kingdom of Greece. verse 21
3. 4. 5. 6. the kingdoms (4) of the breakup of Greek empire. verse 22
7. the kingdom of the transgressors (the little horn and the ten kings). verse 23

The Babylonian kingdom is not mentioned in Daniel 8.

Daniel 2:38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.
39 And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.
40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.
41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.


Why are you reading this like you are? Verse 38 is 1 kingdom. Verse 39 is 2 more kingdoms. Verses 40-43 is 1 more kingdom. And verses 44-45 is yet 1 more kingdom. If we add those together--1 kingdom + 2 more kingdoms + 1 more kingdom + 1 more kingdom, that equals 5 kingdoms altogether, not 6.

The way you should be reading verses 40-43 is that all of that is pertaining to this 4th kingdom

Daniel 2:31 Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness was excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof was terrible.
32 This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass,
33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.
34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.
35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth

1) This image's head was of fine gold = 1 kingdom.

2) his breast and his arms of silver = a 2nd kingdom.

3) his belly and his thighs of brass = a 3rd kingdom.

4) His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay = a 4th kingdom.

5) a stone was cut out without hands = a 5th kingdom.

1) This image's head was of fine gold = Thou art this head of gold.

2) his breast and his arms of silver = another kingdom inferior to thee

3) his belly and his thighs of brass = another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.

4) His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay = verses 40-43

5) a stone was cut out without hands = verses 44-45

Douggg, at times you are one of the most unreasonable members in this forum. No matter what anyone submits that undeniably proves you are wrong about something, you never want to be reasonable and at least admit that maybe you are wrong about that after all, whatever it might be at the time. You won't even entertain that you might be wrong about some things, let alone admit that you are wrong about some things. Why do you want to prideful like that, where, in your mind, only Douggg is the one correct about everything, and the rest of us are wrong, in the event we disagree with Douggg's interpretation of whatever it might be involving at the time?

No wonder we never get anywhere in these discussions. No one can ever admit that they might be wrong about some things even after having been undeniably proven wrong. Granted, some things are not crystal clear, therefore, it is debatable as to how those things should be interpreted. This is not a case like that, though. It is crystal clear that there are only 5 kingdoms, not 6 kingdoms, mentioned in Daniel 2.
 

Davidpt

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You completely ignore the text and decide there is a 5th kingdom and you know very well that Daniel and later Gabriel do not speak of, mention or infer a 5th kingdom.

Just because you cut / paste a verse does not prove anything. It is so clear that both Daniel and Gabriel have specifically called out ONLY 4 kingdoms.

The 4th kingdom of Rome is identified as having legs of iron and feet of iron and clay. There is a definite purpose for the 4th kingdom to have the clay WITHIN it. You refuse to accept what is written- it is not my interpretation. It is literally given to us to ensure God has brought forth ONLY these 4 kingdoms to reveal His Messianic prophecies through.

But you are entitled to your interpretations but I have to move on. This is the reason for Chapter 2- to establish the kingdom structure where ALL the verses in the 12 chapters will fall. And the reason you need to make a 5th kingdom is because you NEED to send these prophecies in Daniel to the “end times.” Daniel is not about the end times.

I mainly agree except for the part Daniel is not about the endtimes. Maybe not all of it is, yet some of it is. To insist none of it is, is not reasonable.
 

Douggg

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Why are you reading this like you are? Verse 38 is 1 kingdom. Verse 39 is 2 more kingdoms. Verses 40-43 is 1 more kingdom.
legs of iron - the Roman empire, fourth kingdom. Ended in 476 AD, look it up on the internet.

feet of iron and clay - end times kingdom, fifth kingdom end times version of the Roman Empire, the EU

in the days of the feet of iron and clay, fifth kingdom, the EU - the kingdom of God will become the ruling kingdom over all the nations of the earth.
 
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Douggg

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Why do you want to prideful like that, where, in your mind, only Douggg is the one correct about everything, and the rest of us are wrong, in the event we disagree with Douggg's interpretation of whatever it might be involving at the time?
If I were prideful, I would be constantly talking down to other posters. I don't do that.

I can tell that you are frustrated that I don't accept your interpretations in many cases. I suggest that you relieve your frustration by learning how to make timeline charts and put the timeframes and events related to them on a timeline. That activity you can do on your own. I use Corel Paintshop Pro to make my charts, which are essentially pictures.

Here is a list of end times timeframes given in the bible.




end times frames 1.jpg
 

CTK

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I have identified the 5th kingdom as the EU.

At the time of the end, the fourth kingdom of iron will have faded away (around 476 AD) to re-emerge as a kingdom of iron and clay, indicating some parts of it in the end times will be strong, some parts weak. Thus, being a 5th kingdom, an end times version of the fourth kingdom.

That 5th kingdom has manifested itself as the EU. The EU did not exist at the time of Jesus. The EEC was founded by the treaty of Rome in 1957, and has since evolved into the EU.

We are living in the end times. In the time of the little horn and the ten kings. The little horn will eventually become dictator of the EU, as the beast-king of Revelation.
Absolutely not. No 5th kingdom... no Scripture for a 5th kingdom... That comes out only of your mind.
 

CTK

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legs of iron - the Roman empire, fourth kingdom. Ended in 476 AD, look it up on the internet.

feet of iron and clay - end times kingdom, fifth kingdom end times version of the Roman Empire, the EU

in the days of the feet of iron and clay, fifth kingdom, the EU - the kingdom of God will become the ruling kingdom over all the nations of the earth.
Show me where you get this....
 

CTK

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Parts of the book of Daniel certainly are. Is phrase "time of the end" not in the book of Daniel in your bible ?


I thought the title of this thread is....

Book of Daniel - Relevant time periods

It is but you have made in almost all about the end times... Only the last section of Chapter 11 and all of 12 speak of the true end times - but in a very general way.. Everything before that is up to 476 AD.
 

CTK

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Daniel 2:38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.
39 And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.
40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.
41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.


Why are you reading this like you are? Verse 38 is 1 kingdom. Verse 39 is 2 more kingdoms. Verses 40-43 is 1 more kingdom. And verses 44-45 is yet 1 more kingdom. If we add those together--1 kingdom + 2 more kingdoms + 1 more kingdom + 1 more kingdom, that equals 5 kingdoms altogether, not 6.

The way you should be reading verses 40-43 is that all of that is pertaining to this 4th kingdom

Daniel 2:31 Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness was excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof was terrible.
32 This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass,
33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.
34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.
35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth

1) This image's head was of fine gold = 1 kingdom.

2) his breast and his arms of silver = a 2nd kingdom.

3) his belly and his thighs of brass = a 3rd kingdom.

4) His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay = a 4th kingdom.

5) a stone was cut out without hands = a 5th kingdom.

1) This image's head was of fine gold = Thou art this head of gold.

2) his breast and his arms of silver = another kingdom inferior to thee

3) his belly and his thighs of brass = another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.

4) His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay = verses 40-43

5) a stone was cut out without hands = verses 44-45

Douggg, at times you are one of the most unreasonable members in this forum. No matter what anyone submits that undeniably proves you are wrong about something, you never want to be reasonable and at least admit that maybe you are wrong about that after all, whatever it might be at the time. You won't even entertain that you might be wrong about some things, let alone admit that you are wrong about some things. Why do you want to prideful like that, where, in your mind, only Douggg is the one correct about everything, and the rest of us are wrong, in the event we disagree with Douggg's interpretation of whatever it might be involving at the time?

No wonder we never get anywhere in these discussions. No one can ever admit that they might be wrong about some things even after having been undeniably proven wrong. Granted, some things are not crystal clear, therefore, it is debatable as to how those things should be interpreted. This is not a case like that, though. It is crystal clear that there are only 5 kingdoms, not 6 kingdoms, mentioned in Daniel 2.
This was suppose to be a response to Dougg not David, sorry.



You keep repeating YOUR interpretations but do not have any Scripture supporting it.

I keep asking you to show me anything that says there is a 5th kingdom... and you keep coming back with nothing but your own theories .. If Chapters 4 and 7 and 8 confirm 4 kingdoms, why can you not accept His Word? Because you need to throw all the verses in Daniel that you can not understand how they apply to the Messiah during His arrival and do what so many have done - throw them 2000 years in the future and make some kind of end game...
 
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Douggg

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Absolutely not. No 5th kingdom... no Scripture for a 5th kingdom... That comes out only of your mind.
The Roman Empire ended in 476 AD.

The little horn person is time of the end. What kingdom will he come out of ?
 

Douggg

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It is but you have made in almost all about the end times... Only the last section of Chapter 11 and all of 12 speak of the true end times - but in a very general way.. Everything before that is up to 476 AD.
No, also Daniel 8:17

So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.

-----------------------------------

Jesus returns to this earth at the time of the end when the abomination of desolation is set up in Daniel 12:11-12. Right ?
 
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