Book of Daniel - Relevant time periods

[Douggg]

The Little Horn/False Prophet which are both names applied to the same beastly heavenly host/angel, is a heavenly host that was created by God but rebelled with Satan just before or around the time of the creation.

Jay, the little horn was given a host. Not that the little horn himself is a host.

Daniel 8:12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

One of the Merriam Webster dictionary definitions of "host" is....

noun

1. army
2. a great number : multitude

All the five beasts of Daniel 7:1-12 are angels/heavenly hosts who have rebelled against God and His creation.

The four beasts in Daniel 7:1-12 are...

Daniel 7:17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

They are not angels. They are four men who start four kingdoms.

Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

 

[Jay Ross]

Jay, Matthew 24:32 is not a stand alone verse. Matthew 24:32-34, those three verses together make up the parable of the fig tree.

Douggg, verse Matt 24:32 is a stand-alone verse and is independent of the verses around it.

No, it is not. Psalms 90:10 defines how long a generation is.

My understanding is that Psalm 90:10 defines a "descendant generation," and not the duration of a "generation/age" which has a duration of around 1,024 solar years.

Now the generation in verse 34 is linked to the Saints that see over a prolong period of time all of the events that Christ had previously mentioned, that was to happen in the distant future from the time of Christ over a number of descendent generations, probably around 40 descendent generation, such that Christ was not talking about the duration of a man's life as nominally defined in Ps 90:10. Christ was speaking of an Age and not just one descendent generation which is your understanding.

You have yet to explain how you arrived at 2044 AD as being a special year.

All of the clues to arrive at the year 2044 AD, which is the year that the sixth age ends, can be found in this one verse. We know that the Spring Season is around 91 days long on our calendars, but there is also the period called the early Spring when leaves bud before the "official" end of the Winter Season which has to be added to the "official" duration of the Spring season. The duration of the early Spring period varies dependent on how warm the end of Winter is and can occur up to 10 or so days before the official end of the winter season. I also acknowledge that it is possible to have a late spring as well when the leaves bud after the "official" start of the Spring Season, however the usual case in that early Springs occur most of the time during the yearly season cycles.

How did I arrive at the year 2044 AD? I accepted that the Fig tree represented the Nation of Israel and that the cursed fig tree once again began to bud leaves showing that it had come back to life once again and that this occurred in the year 1948 AD.

So, adding the days of the Early Spring to the days of the Spring Season together and assigning a year for a day I added 96 years to 1948 AD and arrived at the year 2044 AD as the end of the sixth age such that the seventh Age began at the start of the 2045 AD year.

I also noted that Isaac was born in the year 2049 after the creation of Adam at the very start of the third Age, such that an age has a duration of 1,024 years. From this we can determine that Christ was born at the start of the fifth age in the year 4097 after the creation of Adam. Now, there is uncertainty as to the year in which Christ was born with respect to our present-day calendar and the generally accepted consensus is that Christ was born in the year 4 BC such that the seventh age will commence at the start of the year 2,045 AD.

Now story telling accuracy is very fluid and since the Bible is telling the historical story of mankind, the accuracy of the determined years in which certain events take place is also very fluid and as such we need to accept that the uncertainty of any calculated date for a particular event to occur could have an error of up to 5 years plus or minus associated with the respective calculations.

My research has shown me that Adam was probably created in the year 4,100 BC and adding 6 x 1024 years to this starting point I arrive at the year 2,044 AD as the last year of the sixth age.

How certain I am that 2,044 AD is the actual last year of the sixth age is within an accuracy of plus or minus 5 years, however, if both you and I will still be alive at the start of the seventh age in the year 2,045 AD is highly unlikely so that we will not see this event happen. However, those alive at that time, living today will see whether we were simply just blowing smoke or where on the money, so to speak, as to when the seventh age will start.

Goodbye

 

[Jay Ross]

Jay, the little horn was given a host. Not that the little horn himself is a host.

Daniel 8:12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

One of the Merriam Webster dictionary definitions of "host" is....

noun

1. army
2. a great number : multitude

The four beasts in Daniel 7:1-12 are...

Daniel 7:17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

They are not angels. They are four men who start four kingdoms.

Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

Douggg, we have very different understandings on this subject matter as to the entities of the beasts of Daniel 7 and as such only time will reveal the truth of the matter.

The evidence I see in the scriptures confirms what I believe; that the beasts are wicked fallen heavenly host and Paul the apostle confirmed my understanding in Ephesians 6:12.

Your understanding is in line with the thinking of the reformation fathers who were hell bent on demonising the RCC at that time.

I have nothing to defend as the scriptures back up what i have come to understand as God's truth.

Goodbye

 

[Douggg]

So, adding the days of the Early Spring to the days of the Spring Season together and assigning a year for a day I added 96 years to 1948 AD and arrived at the year 2044 AD as the end of the sixth age such that the seventh Age began at the start of the 2045 AD year.

How certain I am that 2,044 AD is the actual last year of the sixth age is within an accuracy of plus or minus 5 years, however, if both you and I will still be alive at the start of the seventh age in the year 2,045 AD is highly unlikely so that we will not see this event happen. However, those alive at that time, living today will see whether we were simply just blowing smoke or where on the money, so to speak, as to when the seventh age will start.

Jay, you are using 1948 as the base year for the parable of the fig tree. Then, based on a spring season being 96 days long - and then your opting to change to those 96 days to being 96 years.... you came up with.... 1948 + 96 years = 2044.

Jay, the parable of the fig tree is not based on how long the spring season is - but on what the fit tree represents and how long a generation is - so as that generation of people will not to pass away without seeing Jesus's return.

You are focused on the wrong thing - the length of the spring season. And also changing days into years. Similar with what you did with the 2300 days in Daniel 8:14.

 

[Douggg]

Your understanding is in line with the thinking of the reformation fathers who were hell bent on demonising the RCC at that time.

Jay, the reformers' thinking was that the pope/papacy was the Antichrist. I do not think that. So my understanding is not in line with the thinking of the reformers.

have nothing to defend as the scriptures back up what i have come to understand as God's truth.

Jay, the text of Daniel 7 does not say that the four beast are angels. The fours beasts are four kings who began four kingdoms is what the text says. So scriptures do not back up your understanding..

 

[CTK]

Well, if you guys do not mind, I would like to do a little re-start on this topic. And perhaps it might be better if I ask the question to learn your opinions on the 3,4, or 5 etc., number of periods this book can be carved into.

So, I have mentioned that first section of the Book of Daniel covers the period from the Jews captivity to the Medes-Persians conquering Babylon - the 70 years in exile. Within this time period, Daniel will record the Chapter 2 metal man image (which is in my view a summary of the actors and events that will take place from 606 BC to His second coming. It is the big picture on the outside of the puzzle box.

Chapters 3, 4, 5 6. speak of those events WITHIN the first section and deal predominately with Babylon (Gentiles).

Although Chapters 7 and 8 were given to Daniel before the end of the 70 years, I have left them out of the discussion for the first time period in Daniel. They essentially will serve as the Chapter 2 "big picture" for the remainder of Daniel.

So, if we focus just on Chapter 2 in the first time period (unless you disagree and have a different "first time section," then the next question would be what is the metal man image telling us;

1) Does it establish the 4 and only 4 kingdoms that will play a part in God's plan of restoration?
2) Are there any other kingdoms (Chapter 2) that tell us there are more than 4 kingdoms?
3) Does it tell us the progression of these 4 through time?
4) Does Chapter 2 focus mostly on the 4th kingdom or does it treat each of the 4 equally?

Now, I have found (and you do not have to agree with me), but this is the first chapter within Daniel that is structured in two separate sections:

a) the first section is called the "dream sequence" verses that establishes the 4 kingdoms that God will call out of the earth or sea.
b) the section section is called the "interpretation sequence" verses that are the "details" of the actors and events that will occur within the 4 kingdoms mentioned in the "dream sequence" verses. Thus, the verses from 1 - 45 are not presented in a chronological manner (and most other chapters in Daniel are constructed in the same way).

I will leave this for now and see what your thoughts are on the above "approach" and your interpretations of Chapter 2.

 

[Jay Ross]

Jay, you are using 1948 as the base year for the parable of the fig tree. Then, based on a spring season being 96 days long - and then your opting to change to those 96 days to being 96 years.... you came up with.... 1948 + 96 years = 2044.

Jay, the parable of the fig tree is not based on how long the spring season is - but on what the fit tree represents and how long a generation is - so as that generation of people will not to pass away without seeing Jesus's return.

You are focused on the wrong thing - the length of the spring season. And also changing days into years. Similar with what you did with the 2300 days in Daniel 8:14.

Douggg, that is your opinion as to how the Parable of the Fig tree should be understood. You have added to the actual prophecy by including verse that have no associativity with Matt 24:32 Fig tree prophecy. 2044 AD has no connection to the permanent return of Christ at the end of the seventh age when he will return on the clouds just like he left upon the clouds when He went up into heaven.

Time will prove who is closer to the mark as to when this present age will end.

 

[Jay Ross]

Jay, the reformers' thinking was that the pope/papacy was the Antichrist. I do not think that. So my understanding is not in line with the thinking of the reformers.

But you hold to the reformers' belief that the Roman Empire was the fourth segment of the statue prophecy and as such you are still holding to their theories. I on the other hand believe that the fourth segment that held dominion over the land of Babylon was the Nation of Iraq which was remembered before God once more in 1926 AD to receive God's cup of wrath. This means that your understanding is in line with the thinking of the reformers.

Jay, the text of Daniel 7 does not say that the four beast are angels. The fours beasts are four kings who began four kingdoms is what the text says. So scriptures do not back up your understanding..

Sorry, but scripture does back up my understanding. Again, identifying the beasts as being human entities was used by the reformers as a means of demonising the RCC. My position is that the wicked fallen heavenly hosts who hold to their role of being beasts are able to stir up the sea of humanity such that people groups, kingdoms and empire manifest the prominent characteristic of each of the four beasts and carry out their role as the physical observable "beast" on the face of the earth each time that a people group, kingdom or empire begin to inhabit their respective domains.

In Daniel 7:9-12 we read that the beasts were judged in heaven which is in line with Isaiah 24:21-22 and were judge and their lives will be prolonged for a season and a time.

All of the beasts and the Little Horn are singular entities that are judged, and Daniel gave no account of people groups, kingdoms or empires being judged in Daniel 7:9-12.

It seems that we are both wearing out the welcome mat in this thread so it might be advisable for us to both desist with our respective disagreements.

 

[Douggg]

Well, if you guys do not mind, I would like to do a little re-start on this topic. And perhaps it might be better if I ask the question to learn your opinions on the 3,4, or 5 etc., number of periods this book can be carved into.

One approach to organizing the book of Daniel - which is essentially what you are attempting to do, I think - is to group chapters together according to the ruling king at the time for each chapter.

chapter 1 - Nebuchadnezzar - Daniel carried away into Babylonian captivity, and then brought to be in Nebuchadnezzar's court.
chapter 2 - Nebuchadnezzar - Nebuchadnezzar's dream about the great statue image
...............................................................a. Babylonian empire
...............................................................b. Medes-Persian empire
...............................................................c.. Greek empire
...............................................................d. Roman empire
...............................................................e. end times empire
chapter 3 - Nebuchadnezzar - the great statue Nebuchadnezzar had made, and the three Jews and fourth man in the fiery furnace
chapter 4 - Nebuchadnezzar - Nebuchadnezzar's dream about his going insane for 7 years
chapter 5 - Belshazzar - the hand writing on the wall event
chapter 6 - Darius - Daniel cast into the lion's den event
chapter 7 - Belshazzar - Daniel's dream of the four beasts, and the little horn
chapter 8 - Belshazzar - Daniel's vision of the Medes and Persians, then of the Greek empire, then of the time of the end little horn
chapter 9 - Darius - Daniel prayer of repentance on behalf of his people, and Gabriel's visit in response, and the 70 weeks
chapter 10 - Cyrus - Daniel visited by an angel, who would tell him of things to come, and of the end times
chapter 11 - Cyrus - the angel's presentation, of things to come; and then things of the end times
chapter 12 - Cyrus - the angel's presentation of things of the end times

So to organize according to order of kings over Babylon....

chapter 1 - Nebuchadnezzar (first year) - Daniel carried away into Babylonian captivity, and then brought to be in Neb's court.
chapter 2 - Nebuchadnezzar (first year) - Nebuchadnezzar's dream about the great statue image
....................................................................................a. Babylonian empire
.....................................................................................b. Medes-Persian empire
.....................................................................................c.. Greek empire
.....................................................................................d. Roman empire
.....................................................................................e. end times empire
chapter 3 - Nebuchadnezzar - the great statue Nebuchadnezzar had made, and the three Jews and fourth man in the fiery furnace
chapter 4 - Nebuchadnezzar - Nebuchadnezzar's dream about his going insane for 7 years

chapter 7 - Belshazzar (first year) - Daniel's dream of the four beasts, and the little horn
chapter 8 - Belshazzar (third year) - Daniel's vision of the Medes, Persians, then of the Greek empire, then time of the end little horn
chapter 5 - Belshazzar (his last year) - the hand writing on the wall event, Belshazzar slain that night.

chapter 6 - Darius - Daniel cast into the lion's den event
chapter 9 - Darius (first year) - Daniel prayer of repentance on behalf of his people, and Gabriel's visit in response, and the 70 weeks

chapter 10 - Cyrus (third year) - Daniel visited by an angel, who would tell him of things to come, and of the end times
chapter 11 - Cyrus (third year) - the angel's presentation, of things to come; and then things of the end times
chapter 12 - Cyrus (third year) - the angel's presentation of things of the end times

 

[Douggg]

But you hold to the reformers' belief that the Roman Empire was the fourth segment of the statue prophecy and as such you are still holding to their theories. I on the other hand believe that the fourth segment that held dominion over the land of Babylon was the Nation of Iraq which was remembered before God once more in 1926 AD to receive God's cup of wrath. This means that your understanding is in line with the thinking of the reformers.


Sorry, but scripture does back up my understanding. Again, identifying the beasts as being human entities was used by the reformers as a means of demonising the RCC. My position is that the wicked fallen heavenly hosts who hold to their role of being beasts are able to stir up the sea of humanity such that people groups, kingdoms and empire manifest the prominent characteristic of each of the four beasts and carry out their role as the physical observable "beast" on the face of the earth each time that a people group, kingdom or empire begin to inhabit their respective domains.

In Daniel 7:9-12 we read that the beasts were judged in heaven which is in line with Isaiah 24:21-22 and were judge and their lives will be prolonged for a season and a time.

All of the beasts and the Little Horn are singular entities that are judged, and Daniel gave no account of people groups, kingdoms or empires being judged in Daniel 7:9-12.

It seems that we are both wearing out the welcome mat in this thread so it might be advisable for us to both desist with our respective disagreements.

Jay, I am going to let you have the last word with your post. So that CTK's thread can get back on track.

 

[CTK]

One approach to organizing the book of Daniel - which is essentially what you are attempting to do, I think - is to group chapters together according to the ruling king at the time for each chapter.

chapter 1 - Nebuchadnezzar - Daniel carried away into Babylonian captivity, and then brought to be in Nebuchadnezzar's court.
chapter 2 - Nebuchadnezzar - Nebuchadnezzar's dream about the great statue image
...............................................................a. Babylonian empire
...............................................................b. Medes-Persian empire
...............................................................c.. Greek empire
...............................................................d. Roman empire
...............................................................e. end times empire
chapter 3 - Nebuchadnezzar - the great statue Nebuchadnezzar had made, and the three Jews and fourth man in the fiery furnace
chapter 4 - Nebuchadnezzar - Nebuchadnezzar's dream about his going insane for 7 years
chapter 5 - Belshazzar - the hand writing on the wall event
chapter 6 - Darius - Daniel cast into the lion's den event
chapter 7 - Belshazzar - Daniel's dream of the four beasts, and the little horn
chapter 8 - Belshazzar - Daniel's vision of the Medes and Persians, then of the Greek empire, then of the time of the end little horn
chapter 9 - Darius - Daniel prayer of repentance on behalf of his people, and Gabriel's visit in response, and the 70 weeks
chapter 10 - Cyrus - Daniel visited by an angel, who would tell him of things to come, and of the end times
chapter 11 - Cyrus - the angel's presentation, of things to come; and then things of the end times
chapter 12 - Cyrus - the angel's presentation of things of the end times

So to organize according to order of kings over Babylon....

chapter 1 - Nebuchadnezzar - Daniel carried away into Babylonian captivity, and then brought to be in Nebuchadnezzar's court.
chapter 2 - Nebuchadnezzar - Nebuchadnezzar's dream about the great statue image
...............................................................a. Babylonian empire
...............................................................b. Medes-Persian empire
...............................................................c.. Greek empire
...............................................................d. Roman empire
...............................................................e. end times empire
chapter 3 - Nebuchadnezzar - the great statue Nebuchadnezzar had made, and the three Jews and fourth man in the fiery furnace
chapter 4 - Nebuchadnezzar - Nebuchadnezzar's dream about his going insane for 7 years

chapter 5 - Belshazzar - the hand writing on the wall event
chapter 7 - Belshazzar - Daniel's dream of the four beasts, and the little horn
chapter 8 - Belshazzar - Daniel's vision of the Medes and Persians, then of the Greek empire, then of the time of the end little horn

chapter 6 - Darius - Daniel cast into the lion's den event
chapter 9 - Darius - Daniel prayer of repentance on behalf of his people, and Gabriel's visit in response, and the 70 weeks

chapter 10 - Cyrus - Daniel visited by an angel, who would tell him of things to come, and of the end times
chapter 11 - Cyrus - the angel's presentation, of things to come; and then things of the end times
chapter 12 - Cyrus - the angel's presentation of things of the end times

Thanks Dougg, but perhaps we might try and stay with Chapter 2 since the other early chapters clearly stay wit Babylon.

But Chspter 2 does give us a big picture view of the 4 kingdoms on the outside of the box and the detail verses (41-45) of the 4th kingdom.

So we can leave the other chapters alone for now (1,3,4,5,6), since they are all within Babylon.

If we agree the first time section is found covering the 70 years in exile, then Chapter 2 establishes the “structure.” Therefore, before we would move onto to the next major section of Daniel, we would have to discuss / agree / disagree on what Chapter 2 is giving us.

What is Chapter 2 giving us - and I don’t know if you can see the separate sections in Chapter 2 - the “dream section” and the separate “interpretation section.”

 

[Douggg]

Thanks Dougg, but perhaps we might try and stay with Chapter 2 since the other early chapters clearly stay wit Babylon.

Some of the other chapters than Daniel 2 speak about kingdoms after the Babylonian kingdom.

But Chspter 2 does give us a big picture view of the 4 kingdoms on the outside of the box and the detail verses (41-45) of the 4th kingdom.

But if you want to talk about Daniel 2...

chapter 2 - Nebuchadnezzar (first year) - Nebuchadnezzar's dream about the great statue image
....................................................................................a. Babylonian empire (verses 37-38) - gold
....................................................................................b. Medes-Persian empire (verse 39) - silver
....................................................................................c. Greek empire (verse 39) - brass
....................................................................................d. Roman empire (verse 40) - iron
....................................................................................e. end times empire (verse 41-45) - iron mixed with clay

 

[Douggg]

What is Chapter 2 giving us - and I don’t know if you can see the separate sections in Chapter 2 - the “dream section” and the separate “interpretation section.”

The breakdown of Daniel 2 by dream and interpretation of it.

Daniel 2:
verses 1-3 Nebuchadnezzar has the dream

verses 4- 13 looking for an interpreter

verses 14 Daniel becomes involved to interpret

verses 28-30 Daniel gives credit to God for the interpretation

verses 31-45 Daniel gives the interpretation

 

[Jay Ross]

The Statue prophecy found in Daniel 2 describes the nations that will have dominion over the land of Babylon. However, Jeremiah 50 also fleshes out the statue prophecy as well and it tells us that the Land of Babylon will lie desolated and devasted for a period of two ages from around 122 BC up and until 1926 AD where we are told that it will be remembered once more.

The first three nations that exercised dominion over the land of Babylon as told in scripture are: -

1. Babylon
2. Medes and Persians
3. The Greek Empire, initially Alexandra the Great and was followed by the Seleucid Greek Empire

Then in Jeremiah 50 we are told that the Seleucid Greek Empire dismantled all of the utility structures and load the material for these structures onto wagons and took them north along with the people of Babylon and distributed them through the regions of the Seleucid Empire around 120 BC. It should be noted that the Roman Empire did not enter the Middle East until around 60 BC and was not able to hold or establish any dominion over the Land of Babylon during the existence of the Roman Empire.

This is what Jeremaih records: -

Jer 50:39-40: -​

39 "Therefore, the wild desert beasts shall dwell there with the jackals,​

And the ostriches shall dwell in it.​

Nor shall it be inhabited for a long period of time which will be beyond our comprehension,​

It shall not be dwelt in for two ages.​

​

40 As God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah​

And their neighbours," says the Lord,​

"So, no one shall reside there,​

Nor son of man dwell in it. ​

Modified NKJV​

Then in Revelation 16:17-21 we have this recorded: -

Rev 16:17-21: - Seventh Bowl: The Earth Utterly Shaken​

17 Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, “It is done!” 18 And there were noises and thunderings and lightnings; and there was great turmoil, such a mighty and great turmoil as had not occurred since men were on the earth. 19 Now the great city was divided {in 1948} into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell {during WW1}. And great Babylon was remembered before God, {in 1926} to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath. 20 Then every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. 21 And great hail from heaven fell upon men, each hailstone about the weight of a talent. Men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail, since that plague was exceedingly great.​

​

The historical record shows that in 1926 AD that both Britain and France established the nation of Iraq to have dominion over the Land of Babylon and that in 2003 A coalition of nations lead by the USA invaded Iraq and exercised dominion over the Land of Babylon which is described in Jeremaih 50:41-51:12.

This means that the fourth and fifth segments of the Statue Prophecy are
​

4. Iraq​

5. The coalition of 20 nations lead by the USA​

​

Which brings us to the present day.

Now Daniel 2:44-45 tells us this: -
​

Daniel 2:44-45: - 44 And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever. 45 Inasmuch as you saw that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold — the great God has made known to the king what will come to pass after this. The dream is certain, and its interpretation is sure.”​

​

So, I believe that in around 20 years' time, in the year 2044 AD, that God will set up His kingdom which shall never be destroyed, and that this kingdom will consume all of these kingdoms in the Fifth Segment having dominion over the Land of Babylon. At the same time a stone shall come down out of heaven, and it will strike the statue on its feet such that the statue will topple and fall to the ground, and the stone that struck the image became a great religion and it will fill the whole earth.

The time periods, of the statue prophecy, spans from around 600 BC until around 120 BC when Babylon lay desolated and devasted for two ages until 1926 AD when nations once again had dominion over the Land of Babylon up and until the present time.

In the near future, in around 20 years' time, the Everlasting Kingdom and the stone that comes down out of heaven will consume all of the nations of the kings of the earth until the time of the GWTR judgement.

The wonders that Daniel was shown during his lifetime will span three and a half ages.

Shalom

 

[CTK]

Ok and thanks... I will respond to your next post

 

[CTK]

The breakdown of Daniel 2 by dream and interpretation of it.

Daniel 2:
verses 1-3 Nebuchadnezzar has the dream

verses 4- 13 looking for an interpreter

verses 14 Daniel becomes involved to interpret

verses 28-30 Daniel gives credit to God for the interpretation

verses 31-45 Daniel gives the interpretation

Great... now here are the two sections or types of verses that I have found it necessary to distingush... (this took so long because when I attempted to interpret the later chapters in Daniel - 7,8, 9, etc.) nothing made sense).

Meaning, most of Daniel is not written in chronological order:

Verses 31- 36 are the "Summary" verses or the "big picture" verses which establish the picture on the outside of the puzzle box - Dream sequence verses.

Verses 37 - 45 are the "Detail" verses. They are not a continuation of the events after verses 31 - 36 but they provide the events / actors in greater details that take place within verses 31 - 36.

So, let's first discuss the "dream sequence" verses. You have 5 kingdoms... I have only 4 kingdoms. When I went to unpack Chapter 7, there are two verses (7:3 and 7:17) that specifically define the number of kingdoms - there are only 4 that come out of the sea / earth. Consequently, I had to go back to Chapter 2 and review it again, and again...and found the 4th kingdom is of IRON WITH FEET PARTLY OF IRON AND CLAY. Meaning, there are only 4 kingdoms and the 4th has two elements within it - mostly iron and partly clay.

This was important to establish exactly how many kingdoms was God bringing forth from the sea / earth. The feet, regardless as to whether they also included some clay in them, was still part of the 4th kingdom of Rome. And of course, God would have a perfect reason for this.

So, before I move on, I would like to hear your comment (and anyone else's) JUST on the above...

 

[CTK]

The Statue prophecy found in Daniel 2 describes the nations that will have dominion over the land of Babylon. However, Jeremiah 50 also fleshes out the statue prophecy as well and it tells us that the Land of Babylon will lie desolated and devasted for a period of two ages from around 122 BC up and until 1926 AD where we are told that it will be remembered once more.

The first three nations that exercised dominion over the land of Babylon as told in scripture are: -

1. Babylon
2. Medes and Persians
3. The Greek Empire, initially Alexandra the Great and was followed by the Seleucid Greek Empire

Then in Jeremiah 50 we are told that the Seleucid Greek Empire dismantled all of the utility structures and load the material for these structures onto wagons and took them north along with the people of Babylon and distributed them through the regions of the Seleucid Empire around 120 BC. It should be noted that the Roman Empire did not enter the Middle East until around 60 BC and was not able to hold or establish any dominion over the Land of Babylon during the existence of the Roman Empire.

This is what Jeremaih records: -

Jer 50:39-40: -​

39 "Therefore, the wild desert beasts shall dwell there with the jackals,​

And the ostriches shall dwell in it.​

Nor shall it be inhabited for a long period of time which will be beyond our comprehension,​

It shall not be dwelt in for two ages.​

​

40 As God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah​

And their neighbours," says the Lord,​

"So, no one shall reside there,​

Nor son of man dwell in it. ​

Modified NKJV​

Then in Revelation 16:17-21 we have this recorded: -

​

Rev 16:17-21: - Seventh Bowl: The Earth Utterly Shaken​

17 Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, “It is done!” 18 And there were noises and thunderings and lightnings; and there was great turmoil, such a mighty and great turmoil as had not occurred since men were on the earth. 19 Now the great city was divided {in 1948} into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell {during WW1}. And great Babylon was remembered before God, {in 1926} to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath. 20 Then every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. 21 And great hail from heaven fell upon men, each hailstone about the weight of a talent. Men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail, since that plague was exceedingly great.​

​

The historical record shows that in 1926 AD that both Britain and France established the nation of Iraq to have dominion over the Land of Babylon and that in 2003 A coalition of nations lead by the USA invaded Iraq and exercised dominion over the Land of Babylon which is described in Jeremaih 50:41-51:12.

This means that the fourth and fifth segments of the Statue Prophecy are
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4. Iraq​

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5. The coalition of 20 nations lead by the USA​

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Which brings us to the present day.

Now Daniel 2:44-45 tells us this: -
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Daniel 2:44-45: - 44 And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever. 45 Inasmuch as you saw that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold — the great God has made known to the king what will come to pass after this. The dream is certain, and its interpretation is sure.”

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So, I believe that in around 20 years' time, in the year 2044 AD, that God will set up His kingdom which shall never be destroyed, and that this kingdom will consume all of these kingdoms in the Fifth Segment having dominion over the Land of Babylon. At the same time a stone shall come down out of heaven, and it will strike the statue on its feet such that the statue will topple and fall to the ground, and the stone that struck the image became a great religion and it will fill the whole earth.

The time periods, of the statue prophecy, spans from around 600 BC until around 120 BC when Babylon lay desolated and devasted for two ages until 1926 AD when nations once again had dominion over the Land of Babylon up and until the present time.

In the near future, in around 20 years' time, the Everlasting Kingdom and the stone that comes down out of heaven will consume all of the nations of the kings of the earth until the time of the GWTR judgement.

The wonders that Daniel was shown during his lifetime will span three and a half ages.

Shalom

Jay, thank you for your detailed response. If you do not mind, I would respectfully ask that you too might participate in this process so we can all provide their interpretations..... but in a slow and methodical view. This "process" will only focus on Chapter 2 in Daniel for now.

 

[Douggg]

Great... now here are the two sections or types of verses that I have found it necessary to distingush... (this took so long because when I attempted to interpret the later chapters in Daniel - 7,8, 9, etc.) nothing made sense).

The key is to read in the first few verses of each chapter who the king was ruling at the time.

As a whole - the book of Daniel, from Nebuchadnezzar to Cyrus, spanned (597-528 BCE), 69 years of Daniel's life. 597 BCE is considered when the Jews went into Babylonian captivity.

Verses 31- 36 are the "Summary" verses or the "big picture" verses which establish the picture on the outside of the puzzle box - Dream sequence verses.

verses 31-36 Daniel tells Nebuchadnezzar what he saw in his dream. I would not call it "Summary" or the "big picture" though, because it is not an interpretation.

Verses 37 - 45 are the "Detail" verses. They are not a continuation of the events after verses 31 - 36 but they provide the events / actors in greater details that take place within verses 31 - 36.

Not "Detail" verses, but interpretation verses. No interpretation is in verses 31-36.

 

[Douggg]

So, let's first discuss the "dream sequence" verses. You have 5 kingdoms... I have only 4 kingdoms.

I have 5 kingdoms. What is your 4 kingdoms according to verse(s) ?

....................................................................................a. Babylonian empire (verses 37-38) - gold
....................................................................................b. Medes-Persian empire (verse 39) - silver
....................................................................................c. Greek empire (verse 39) - brass
....................................................................................d. Roman empire (verse 40) - iron
....................................................................................e. end times empire (verse 41-45) - iron mixed with clay

 

[CTK]

I have 5 kingdoms. What is your 4 kingdoms according to verse(s) ?

....................................................................................a. Babylonian empire (verses 37-38) - gold
....................................................................................b. Medes-Persian empire (verse 39) - silver
....................................................................................c. Greek empire (verse 39) - brass
....................................................................................d. Roman empire (verse 40) - iron
....................................................................................e. end times empire (verse 41-45) - iron mixed with clay

Dougg, the 4 and only 4 kingdoms are the same as yours, and I provided the two verses in Chapter 7 that confirms there are only 4 in Chapter 2. Your 5th is part of the 4... you can not ignore (7:3, 17).

And Daniel specifically tells us in verse 36 they (31-35) are the "dream sequence" of verses. Then he tells us what the "interpretation sequence" verses are going to be... beginning in verse 37.