Leaders That Don't Support Good Works or Overcoming Sin

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J

Johann

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Anything that keeps the people in bondage is of darkness .
SIN IS BONDAGE .
The dark one has come in his own name to keep the captives captive to a lie and in sin
by preaching another version of love , of Christ , of GOD . ALL to merge this people to be as one mind and one heart
under it . Who , by the lusts of the flesh , GETS THE WORSHIP . satan is slick my friend .
HOW did we once have our conversation with him , THROUGH THE LUSTS OF THE FLESH .
IS it any wonder then , that he and his minstirs will preach another jesus in order to keep souls trapped in darkness and bondage
and all the while these poor captives holler , WE are free , we have our liberty and yet its sin they embrace and live in .
THAT AINT FREE or LIBERTY . use not LIBERTY as an occasion to serve THE FLESH .
HE who is made free FROM SIN , not TO SIN , FROM SIN . WHO we serve is WHOSE we are .
When eve believed the serpent she fell .
JUDGMENT IN THE NT

Judgment is certain (cf. Matt. 12:36; Heb. 9:27; 10:27; 2 Pet. 2:4,9; 3:7).

A. The one who judges is

1. God (cf. Rom. 2:2-3; 14:10,12; 1 Pet. 1:17; 2:23; Rev. 20:11-15)

2. Christ (cf. John 9:39; Matt. 16:27; 25:31-46; Acts 10:42; 17:31; 2 Cor. 5:10; 2 Tim. 4:1)

3. the Father through the Son (cf. John 5:22-27; Acts 17:31; Rom. 2:16)

Judgment is an unpleasant subject, but a recurrent theme in the Bible. It is based on several bedrock biblical truths.

1. This is a moral universe created by an ethical God (we reap what we sow, cf. Gal. 6:7).

2. Humanity is fallen; we have rebelled.

3. This is not the world God intended it to be.

4. All conscious creations (angels and humans) will give an accounting to their Creator for the gift of life. We are stewards.

5. Eternity will be permanently determined by our actions and choices made in this life.

B. Should Christians judge one another? This issue must be dealt with in two ways.

1. believers are admonished not to judge one another (cf. Matt. 7:1-5; Luke 6:37,42; Rom. 2:1-11; James 4:11-12)

2. believers are admonished to evaluate leaders (cf. Matt. 7:6,15-16; 1 Cor. 14:29; 1 Thess. 5:21; 1 Tim. 3:1-13; and 1 John 4:1-6)

Some criteria for proper evaluation may be helpful.

1. evaluation should be for the purpose of affirmation (cf. 1 John 4:1 – "test" with a view toward approval; see Special Topic: Testing [peirazō and dokimazō])

2. evaluation should be done in humility and gentleness (cf. Gal. 6:1)

3. evaluation must not focus on personal preference issues (cf. Rom. 14:1-23; 1 Cor. 8:1-13; 10:23-33)

4. evaluation should identify those leaders who have "no handle for criticism" from within the church or the community (cf. 1 Timothy 3).

Once we get this right we have no business in judging others.
 
J

Johann

Guest
Works has nothing to do with being saved I think the question a person has to ask themselves when it comes to works is why are you doing it?If you doing it to be saved you got it all wrong and need to look at the sacrifice Jesus made because you don't understand.If your doing it out of faith and love for God then your on the right track with the hope of a possible greater reward which will be eternal that Jesus himself promises .I have never done anything thinking it saves me I have always understood it is the sacrifice Jesus made that saves me but I have done thing out of love for God and in faith and who knows maybe I will be rewarded or maybe not..
Good Works:

Matthew 5:16 – "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven."

Ephesians 2:10 – "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them."

James 2:17 – "Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead."

James 2:26 – "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

Titus 2:7 – "In all things showing yourself to be a pattern of good works; in doctrine showing integrity, reverence, incorruptibility."

Titus 2:14 – "Who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works."

Titus 3:8 – "This is a faithful saying, and these things I want you to affirm constantly, that those who have believed in God should be careful to maintain good works."

Titus 3:14 – "And let our people also learn to maintain good works, to meet urgent needs, that they may not be unfruitful."

1 Timothy 6:18 – "Let them do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to give, willing to share."

Hebrews 10:24 – "And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works."
Workmanship:

Exodus 35:31-32 – "And He has filled him with the Spirit of God, in wisdom and understanding, in knowledge and all manner of workmanship, to design artistic works."

Exodus 36:1 – "And Bezalel and Aholiab, and every gifted artisan in whom the LORD has put wisdom and understanding, to know how to do all manner of work for the service of the sanctuary, shall do according to all that the LORD has commanded."

Psalm 19:1 – "The heavens declare the glory of God; And the firmament shows His handiwork."

Isaiah 64:8 – "But now, O LORD, You are our Father; We are the clay, and You our potter; And all we are the work of Your hand."

Ephesians 2:10 – "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them."
 
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amigo de christo

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JUDGMENT IN THE NT

Judgment is certain (cf. Matt. 12:36; Heb. 9:27; 10:27; 2 Pet. 2:4,9; 3:7).

A. The one who judges is

1. God (cf. Rom. 2:2-3; 14:10,12; 1 Pet. 1:17; 2:23; Rev. 20:11-15)

2. Christ (cf. John 9:39; Matt. 16:27; 25:31-46; Acts 10:42; 17:31; 2 Cor. 5:10; 2 Tim. 4:1)

3. the Father through the Son (cf. John 5:22-27; Acts 17:31; Rom. 2:16)

Judgment is an unpleasant subject, but a recurrent theme in the Bible. It is based on several bedrock biblical truths.

1. This is a moral universe created by an ethical God (we reap what we sow, cf. Gal. 6:7).

2. Humanity is fallen; we have rebelled.

3. This is not the world God intended it to be.

4. All conscious creations (angels and humans) will give an accounting to their Creator for the gift of life. We are stewards.

5. Eternity will be permanently determined by our actions and choices made in this life.

B. Should Christians judge one another? This issue must be dealt with in two ways.

1. believers are admonished not to judge one another (cf. Matt. 7:1-5; Luke 6:37,42; Rom. 2:1-11; James 4:11-12)

2. believers are admonished to evaluate leaders (cf. Matt. 7:6,15-16; 1 Cor. 14:29; 1 Thess. 5:21; 1 Tim. 3:1-13; and 1 John 4:1-6)

Some criteria for proper evaluation may be helpful.

1. evaluation should be for the purpose of affirmation (cf. 1 John 4:1 – "test" with a view toward approval; see Special Topic: Testing [peirazō and dokimazō])

2. evaluation should be done in humility and gentleness (cf. Gal. 6:1)

3. evaluation must not focus on personal preference issues (cf. Rom. 14:1-23; 1 Cor. 8:1-13; 10:23-33)

4. evaluation should identify those leaders who have "no handle for criticism" from within the church or the community (cf. 1 Timothy 3).

Once we get this right we have no business in judging others.
This goes a lot easier if you can respond to the statement i left to you my friend .
Was the statement i left Condemning or was it truth meant to truly HELP . its truth meant to truly help .
Do you not judge those within .
Those who sin rebuke SHARPLY before all that others might fear . fear to what , TO SIN .
There is nothing wrong with being grave and sincere or correcting and reminding the church .
So please , my dear friend , show me what i said wrong in that statement that i simply wrote to you .
 

amigo de christo

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JUDGMENT IN THE NT

Judgment is certain (cf. Matt. 12:36; Heb. 9:27; 10:27; 2 Pet. 2:4,9; 3:7).

A. The one who judges is

1. God (cf. Rom. 2:2-3; 14:10,12; 1 Pet. 1:17; 2:23; Rev. 20:11-15)

2. Christ (cf. John 9:39; Matt. 16:27; 25:31-46; Acts 10:42; 17:31; 2 Cor. 5:10; 2 Tim. 4:1)

3. the Father through the Son (cf. John 5:22-27; Acts 17:31; Rom. 2:16)

Judgment is an unpleasant subject, but a recurrent theme in the Bible. It is based on several bedrock biblical truths.

1. This is a moral universe created by an ethical God (we reap what we sow, cf. Gal. 6:7).

2. Humanity is fallen; we have rebelled.

3. This is not the world God intended it to be.

4. All conscious creations (angels and humans) will give an accounting to their Creator for the gift of life. We are stewards.

5. Eternity will be permanently determined by our actions and choices made in this life.

B. Should Christians judge one another? This issue must be dealt with in two ways.

1. believers are admonished not to judge one another (cf. Matt. 7:1-5; Luke 6:37,42; Rom. 2:1-11; James 4:11-12)

2. believers are admonished to evaluate leaders (cf. Matt. 7:6,15-16; 1 Cor. 14:29; 1 Thess. 5:21; 1 Tim. 3:1-13; and 1 John 4:1-6)

Some criteria for proper evaluation may be helpful.

1. evaluation should be for the purpose of affirmation (cf. 1 John 4:1 – "test" with a view toward approval; see Special Topic: Testing [peirazō and dokimazō])

2. evaluation should be done in humility and gentleness (cf. Gal. 6:1)

3. evaluation must not focus on personal preference issues (cf. Rom. 14:1-23; 1 Cor. 8:1-13; 10:23-33)

4. evaluation should identify those leaders who have "no handle for criticism" from within the church or the community (cf. 1 Timothy 3).

Once we get this right we have no business in judging others.
Anything that keeps the people in bondage is of darkness .
SIN IS BONDAGE .
The dark one has come in his own name to keep the captives captive to a lie and in sin
by preaching another version of love , of Christ , of GOD . ALL to merge this people to be as one mind and one heart
under it . Who , by the lusts of the flesh , GETS THE WORSHIP . satan is slick my friend .
HOW did we once have our conversation with him , THROUGH THE LUSTS OF THE FLESH .
IS it any wonder then , that he and his minstirs will preach another jesus in order to keep souls trapped in darkness and bondage
and all the while these poor captives holler , WE are free , we have our liberty and yet its sin they embrace and live in .
THAT AINT FREE or LIBERTY . use not LIBERTY as an occasion to serve THE FLESH .
HE who is made free FROM SIN , not TO SIN , FROM SIN . WHO we serve is WHOSE we are .
When eve believed the serpent she fell .
This IS the statement i had left you my friend . Show me the error in it .
 
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J

Johann

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This goes a lot easier if you can respond to the statement i left to you my friend .
Was the statement i left Condemning or was it truth meant to truly HELP . its truth meant to truly help .
Do you not judge those within .
Those who sin rebuke SHARPLY before all that others might fear . fear to what , TO SIN .
There is nothing wrong with being grave and sincere or correcting and reminding the church .
So please , my dear friend , show me what i said wrong in that statement that i simply wrote to you .
I am responding to your statement @amigo de christo-what is here you don't understand?

I;m giving you the Scriptural method in evaluating others and to admonish leaders-or don't you know the difference between dokimazo and peiradzo?

Since you cry we need to go back to the Scriptures I am quoting and providing you with Scriptures-did you look them up?
GREEK TERMS FOR TESTING AND THEIR CONNOTATIONS

There are two Greek terms which have the connotation of testing someone for a purpose.

1. Dokimazō, Dokimion, Dokimasia

This term is a metalurgist term for testing the genuineness of something (i.e., metaphorically someone) by fire (see Special Topic: Fire). The fire reveals the true metal and burns off (i.e., purifies) the dross. This physical process became a powerful idiom for God and/or Satan and/or humans testing others. This term is only used in a positive sense of testing with a view towards acceptance (see Special Topic: God Tests His People [OT]).

It is used in the NT of testing

a. oxen – Luke 14:19

b. ourselves – 1 Cor. 11:28

c. our faith – James. 1:3

d. even God – Heb. 3:9

The outcomes of these tests were assumed to be positive (cf. Rom. 2:18; 14:22; 16:10; 2 Cor. 10:18; 13:3,7; Phil. 2:27; 1 Pet. 1:7), therefore, the term conveys the idea of someone examined and approved

a. to be worthwhile

b. to be good

c. to be genuine

d. to be valuable

e. to be honored

2. Peirazō, Peirasmus

This term often has the connotation of examination for the purpose of fault finding or rejection. It is used in connection to Jesus' temptation in the wilderness.


a. It conveys the attempt to trap Jesus (cf. Matt. 4:1; 16:1; 19:3; 22:18, 35; Mark 1:13; Luke 4:2; Heb. 2:18).

b. This term (peirazōn) is used as a title for Satan in Matt. 4:3; 1 Thess. 3:5 (i.e., "the tempter").

c. Usage

(1) It was used by Jesus warning humans not to test God (cf. Matt. 4:7; Luke 4:12, [or Christ cf. 1 Cor 10:9]).

(2) It also denotes the attempt to do something that has failed (cf. Heb.11:29).

(3) It is used in connection with the temptation and trials of believers (cf. 1 Cor. 7:5; 10:9, 13; Gal. 6:1; 1 Thess. 3:5; Heb. 2:18; James. 1:2, 13, 14; 1 Pet. 4:12; 2 Pet 2:9).

Now I am asking YOU to look up these Scripture references and see in what manner it SHOULD be done but if you don't want to look them up then you yourself ain't in the the Bible as you claim others are not.

Right?
J.
 
J

Johann

Guest
Anything that keeps the people in bondage is of darkness .
SIN IS BONDAGE .
The dark one has come in his own name to keep the captives captive to a lie and in sin
by preaching another version of love , of Christ , of GOD . ALL to merge this people to be as one mind and one heart
under it . Who , by the lusts of the flesh , GETS THE WORSHIP . satan is slick my friend .
HOW did we once have our conversation with him , THROUGH THE LUSTS OF THE FLESH .
IS it any wonder then , that he and his minstirs will preach another jesus in order to keep souls trapped in darkness and bondage
and all the while these poor captives holler , WE are free , we have our liberty and yet its sin they embrace and live in .
THAT AINT FREE or LIBERTY . use not LIBERTY as an occasion to serve THE FLESH .
HE who is made free FROM SIN , not TO SIN , FROM SIN . WHO we serve is WHOSE we are .
When eve believed the serpent she fell .
This IS the statement i had left you my friend . Show me the error in it .
Contents: Law of love concerning doubtful things.
Characters: God, Christ, Holy Spirit, Paul.
Conclusion: To do what conscience allows is not always right and to do what it questions is always wrong. The strong Christian should not be contemptuous toward the opinion of a weaker brother on a doubtful question, I neither should the weaker man be censorious toward the stronger because of what conscience allows him. Both have a right to opinion and both are responsible to God for it.
Key Word: Judging, Rom_14:4, Rom_14:10.
Strong Verses: Rom_14:4, Rom_14:5, Rom_14:7, Rom_14:8, Rom_14:10, Rom_14:12, Rom_14:17.
Striking Facts: Rom_14:8-9. To the Lord Jesus Christ, to Whom all judgment is committed, we are to do everything. To this end, He both died and arose, that He might be Lord of those who are living to rule them, and Lord of the dead to raise them up. We are therefore, answerable to Him in everything. Let us not intrench upon His right by arraigning our brothers at our own bar.
 

amigo de christo

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Contents: Law of love concerning doubtful things.
Characters: God, Christ, Holy Spirit, Paul.
Conclusion: To do what conscience allows is not always right and to do what it questions is always wrong. The strong Christian should not be contemptuous toward the opinion of a weaker brother on a doubtful question, I neither should the weaker man be censorious toward the stronger because of what conscience allows him. Both have a right to opinion and both are responsible to God for it.
Key Word: Judging, Rom_14:4, Rom_14:10.
Strong Verses: Rom_14:4, Rom_14:5, Rom_14:7, Rom_14:8, Rom_14:10, Rom_14:12, Rom_14:17.
Striking Facts: Rom_14:8-9. To the Lord Jesus Christ, to Whom all judgment is committed, we are to do everything. To this end, He both died and arose, that He might be Lord of those who are living to rule them, and Lord of the dead to raise them up. We are therefore, answerable to Him in everything. Let us not intrench upon His right by arraigning our brothers at our own bar.
doubtful things . things that are NOT SIN . but as pertains to the conscious johann .
This means things that are not actually a sin . meats drinks days .
Now while it can be a sin for some to eat meats , DUE TO THEY THINK IT IS , it is a sin to those who do not eat in faith .
BUT the meats , the drinks , the days . These are simply performances johann .
In other words , THEY in and of themselves are not a sin . ITs just a way to worship GOD , to abstain
to etc , to celebrate or not celebrate a day . THAT is not a sin .
NOW again , to those who BELIEVE it is in error to do such things , TO THEM IT IS SIN .
for example . Meats . lets look at meats .
By prayer what we eat is santicfied . the meat itself is not sin .
A man can eat or not eat . However there are weaker brethren . Some look at things , concering meats drinks and days johann ,
as though it might in erroneous to eat . TO THEM IT IS . because they would not be eating in faith .
I know all about meats drinks and days johann .
BUT SIN IS SIN . ALL SIN GETS CORRECTED on my watch .
As far as meats drinks and days , LET each do as he or she is persuaded .
BUT SIN ITSELF gets corrected .
AND SUPER fast too on my watch . This never applied to SIN johann . IT NEVER Did .
 
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amigo de christo

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I am responding to your statement @amigo de christo-what is here you don't understand?

I;m giving you the Scriptural method in evaluating others and to admonish leaders-or don't you know the difference between dokimazo and peiradzo?

Since you cry we need to go back to the Scriptures I am quoting and providing you with Scriptures-did you look them up?
GREEK TERMS FOR TESTING AND THEIR CONNOTATIONS

There are two Greek terms which have the connotation of testing someone for a purpose.

1. Dokimazō, Dokimion, Dokimasia

This term is a metalurgist term for testing the genuineness of something (i.e., metaphorically someone) by fire (see Special Topic: Fire). The fire reveals the true metal and burns off (i.e., purifies) the dross. This physical process became a powerful idiom for God and/or Satan and/or humans testing others. This term is only used in a positive sense of testing with a view towards acceptance (see Special Topic: God Tests His People [OT]).

It is used in the NT of testing

a. oxen – Luke 14:19

b. ourselves – 1 Cor. 11:28

c. our faith – James. 1:3

d. even God – Heb. 3:9

The outcomes of these tests were assumed to be positive (cf. Rom. 2:18; 14:22; 16:10; 2 Cor. 10:18; 13:3,7; Phil. 2:27; 1 Pet. 1:7), therefore, the term conveys the idea of someone examined and approved

a. to be worthwhile

b. to be good

c. to be genuine

d. to be valuable

e. to be honored

2. Peirazō, Peirasmus

This term often has the connotation of examination for the purpose of fault finding or rejection. It is used in connection to Jesus' temptation in the wilderness.


a. It conveys the attempt to trap Jesus (cf. Matt. 4:1; 16:1; 19:3; 22:18, 35; Mark 1:13; Luke 4:2; Heb. 2:18).

b. This term (peirazōn) is used as a title for Satan in Matt. 4:3; 1 Thess. 3:5 (i.e., "the tempter").

c. Usage

(1) It was used by Jesus warning humans not to test God (cf. Matt. 4:7; Luke 4:12, [or Christ cf. 1 Cor 10:9]).

(2) It also denotes the attempt to do something that has failed (cf. Heb.11:29).

(3) It is used in connection with the temptation and trials of believers (cf. 1 Cor. 7:5; 10:9, 13; Gal. 6:1; 1 Thess. 3:5; Heb. 2:18; James. 1:2, 13, 14; 1 Pet. 4:12; 2 Pet 2:9).

Now I am asking YOU to look up these Scripture references and see in what manner it SHOULD be done but if you don't want to look them up then you yourself ain't in the the Bible as you claim others are not.

Right?
J.
all sin must be corrected in that church .
 
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J

Johann

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all sin must be corrected in that church .
Galatians
1:9 Condemning Opponents?

Paul’s curse in Galatians 1:9 is a hard saying for two reasons: it does not seem to be in
agreement with some other statements of Paul, and it seems diametrically opposed to the
teaching of Jesus with regard to our attitudes and actions toward those who are opposed to us.

In Romans 2:1–4 Paul lays down the principle that judgment passed on others is in some
sense “reflexive”; that is, when we pass judgment on others, we condemn ourselves at the
same time.

For only God knows the truth about us, and only he is able therefore to pass
judgment. We are mere creatures, limited with respect to both the truth about others and the
truth about ourselves. We, like all others, are sinners (Rom 3:23); that is the ultimate reason

we ought not to pass judgment.

This same sentiment is expressed again in a context where there is mutual judging going
on within the congregation (Rom 14:1–13). Here the admonition not to judge others in respect
to certain practices and beliefs considered inappropriate or wrong is based on the assertion
that each disciple is accountable ultimately to the Lord (Rom 14:4), and all will equally “stand
before God’s judgment seat” (Rom 14:10).

The larger perspective which ought to guide
Christians’ attitudes toward opponents is derived by Paul from the teaching of Jesus. Thus,
echoing Matthew 5:44, Paul says, “Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse”
(Rom 12:14). Our task as Christians is to “overcome evil with good” (Rom 12:21).


The overall teaching, attitude and life of Jesus stand also in apparent conflict with Paul’s
word of condemnation. Jesus’ radical imperative on the matter is “Do not judge, or you too
will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged” (Mt 7:1–2).

The
reason given for this imperative is that our own vision may be so impaired that it is sheer

hypocrisy to try to remove the sawdust particle in the other’s eye (Mt 7:3, 5).

The proper
response to those who are opposed to us is to love them and pray for them (Mt 5:44). Beyond
these words, Jesus’ entire life is a demonstration of his words’ validity. He did not come into

a world opposed to God to condemn it but to save it (Jn 3:17).

Because of his deep
compassion he weeps over Jerusalem (Lk 19:41), the city that kills the prophets and those
(like Jesus) sent to it (Lk 13:34). To the adulteress he speaks the word of forgiveness rather
than judgment (Jn 8:10–11); to the criminal hanging on a cross next to him he speaks the
word of grace (Lk 23:39–43).

As Paul’s words against judging seem to stand in conflict with his harsh words in
Galatians 1:9, so the larger picture of Jesus’ teaching and life, characterized by love and
compassion, by humility and forgiveness, stands in apparent conflict with another dimension
of his life. Jesus’ words and actions could be uncompromisingly harsh toward those who
opposed him and his ministry and whose “piety” excluded the redemptive work of God. He
calls the religious leaders of his own people “sons of the devil,” whose desire they carry out

(Jn 8:44).

Those who oppose his ministry of releasing the possessed from bondage are called
“an evil generation” (Lk 11:29 RSV), who will be judged and condemned (Lk 11:31–32).
Those who oppose the work of the Spirit of God in and through his life (Mt 12:28) will be
condemned eternally; for them there is no forgiveness (Mt 12:31–32). Words of bitter
denunciation are spoken against the teachers of the law and Pharisees, whom he calls
“child[ren] of hell” (Mt 23:15 RSV), “blind fools” (Mt 23:17), “whitewashed tombs” (Mt
23:27), “snakes” and a “brood of vipers” who cannot “escape being condemned to hell” (Mt
23:33).

When we carefully compare this radically harsh tone in Jesus’ teaching with that strand in
his life which exudes compassion and forgiveness, we recognize where the essential
difference lies. He came as the incarnation of God’s redemptive love, and wherever there is
openness to it, forgiveness is given, grace is experienced, sin is overcome. But where there is
absolute rejection of that redemptive love, where the work of God is identified as demonic,
where truth is trampled underfoot, there condemnation is pronounced. It is within this latter
context of the rejection of God’s redemptive love that this hard saying must be understood.
In Paul’s epistle to the Galatians, the central issue addressed is this: the core of the gospel
which Paul had preached and on which their faith was based is that we are justified, brought
into a right relationship with God, solely by his grace and through faith, not by gaining a
standing before God on the basis of obedience to the law (Gal 2:15–21). That gospel was
being challenged by the so-called Judaizers; namely, Jewish Christians who demanded that
Gentile Christians observe the Mosaic law, including ritual observances such as special days,
kosher foods and circumcision (Gal 3:1–7; 4:8–11, 17, 21–22). Those who respond to their
teaching, who are led away from the truth (Gal 5:7), who now seek “to be justified by law,
have been alienated from Christ” and have “fallen away from grace” (Gal 5:4).
For Paul the conflict between the gospel which he preached and the teaching of the
Judaizers is a life-and-death struggle. Why?

Because legalistic obedience, life before God
based on religious achievement, does not bring one into right relationship with God (Gal 2:16;
3:3) but to alienation from him (Gal 5:4), to rejection of God’s grace (Gal 2:21), to a life of
legalistic bondage (Gal 4:9, 21; 5:1), to the curse of death (Gal 3:10–13).

Those who teach this way are “false brothers” (Gal 2:4) who oppose the “truth of the
gospel” (Gal 2:5, 14), confuse the believers (Gal 1:7), “pervert the gospel of Christ” (Gal 1:7),

bewitch the saints (Gal 3:1).

Therefore, let anyone who does this “be eternally condemned”
(Gal 1:8–9). This strong language shows how serious the matter was for Paul. George Duncan
puts it well when he calls these words “an imprecation such as we cannot imagine him using
had it been merely his personal prestige … anything, in fact, but the gospel of Christ which
was at stake.”1

It is clear then that Paul is not calling for the condemnation of his opponents (that is, the
Judaizers) because they are opposed to him, but rather because they are enemies of the gospel.
That gospel is of divine origin, not of Paul’s invention (Gal 1:11–12). Therefore, those who
pervert it subvert God’s redemptive purpose. On those who thus act and teach, the judgment
of God is justly pronounced. Thus there is here no real conflict between Paul’s general call for
a nonjudgmental spirit and his strong word of judgment here, just as there is no real conflict
between Jesus’ teaching on love for one’s opponents and his words of judgment. In both
cases, where the work and truth of God is at stake, those who reject it stand under judgment.

F.F. Bruce-Hard Sayings.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
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Johann

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all sin must be corrected in that church .
Bob Utley, in his sermon on judging others, emphasizes the interpretation of Matthew 7, where Jesus instructs against hypocritical judgment. Utley highlights that believers are called to discern right from wrong, but they must do so with humility and self-reflection. He points out that Jesus condemns judgment rooted in self-righteousness, encouraging believers to examine their own faults before addressing others. Utley reminds Christians that righteous judgment should be done with love and restoration in mind, not condemnation
Internet Archive.

This is not a situation like a church where people don’t know one another personally (Hebrews 10:25). Instead of focusing on sin all the time, fix your mind on Christ (Colossians 3:1-2). Be conscious of His righteousness and life in you (2 Corinthians 5:21), and remember that where sin abounds, grace abounds much more (Romans 5:20). Keep your eyes on Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith (Hebrews 12:2).

1725751078405.png

1725751472014.png

No need for continual reminders to people online you don't even know.

Luk_6:42 How can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me get that tiny speck out of your eye,' when you cannot see the girder in your own eye? You hypocrite! First get the girder out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly how to get out the tiny speck in your brother's eye.

One Body with Many Members
1Co 12:12 For just as the human body is one and yet has many parts, and all the parts of the body, many as they are, constitute but one body, so it is with Christ.
1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit all of us, Jews or Greeks, slaves or freemen, have been baptized into one body, and were all imbued with one Spirit.
1Co 12:14 For the body does not consist of one part but of many.
1Co 12:15 If the foot says, "Since I am not a hand, I am not a part of the body," that does not make it any less a part of the body.
1Co 12:16 If the ear says, "Since I am not an eye, I am not a part of the body," that does not make it any less a part of the body.
1Co 12:17 If all the body were an eye, how could we hear? If all the body were an ear, how could we smell?
1Co 12:18 But as it now is, God has placed the parts, every one of them, in the body just as He wanted them to be.
1Co 12:19 If they were all one part, how could it be a body?
1Co 12:20 But as it now is, there are many parts, but one body.
1Co 12:21 The eye cannot say to the hand, "I do not need you," or the hand to the feet, "I do not need you."
1Co 12:22 No, on the contrary, even those parts of the body that seem to be most delicate are indispensable,
1Co 12:23 and the parts of it we deem devoid of honor we dress with special honor, and our ill-shaped parts receive more careful attention,
1Co 12:24 while our well-shaped parts do not want for anything. Yes, God has perfectly adjusted the body, giving great honor to its apparently inferior parts,
1Co 12:25 so that there is no disharmony in the body, but all the parts have a common care for one another.
1Co 12:26 If one part suffers, all the parts suffer with it. If one part receives an honor, all the parts can share its joy.
1Co 12:27 So you are Christ's body, and individually parts of it.
1Co 12:28 And God has placed people in the church, first as apostles, second as prophets, third as teachers, then wonder-workers; then people with power to cure the sick, helpers, managers, ecstatic speakers.
1Co 12:29 Not all are apostles, are they? Not all are prophets, are they? Not all are teachers, are they? Not all are wonder-workers, are they?
1Co 12:30 Not all are people with power to cure the sick, are they? Not all are ecstatic speakers, are they? Not all can explain ecstatic speaking, can they?
1Co 12:31 But you must earnestly continue to cultivate your higher spiritual gifts. And yet I will show you a way that is better by far:
Williams Bible.

Be blessed
J.
 

amigo de christo

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Galatians
1:9 Condemning Opponents?

Paul’s curse in Galatians 1:9 is a hard saying for two reasons: it does not seem to be in
agreement with some other statements of Paul, and it seems diametrically opposed to the
teaching of Jesus with regard to our attitudes and actions toward those who are opposed to us.

In Romans 2:1–4 Paul lays down the principle that judgment passed on others is in some
sense “reflexive”; that is, when we pass judgment on others, we condemn ourselves at the
same time.

For only God knows the truth about us, and only he is able therefore to pass
judgment. We are mere creatures, limited with respect to both the truth about others and the
truth about ourselves. We, like all others, are sinners (Rom 3:23); that is the ultimate reason

we ought not to pass judgment.

This same sentiment is expressed again in a context where there is mutual judging going
on within the congregation (Rom 14:1–13). Here the admonition not to judge others in respect
to certain practices and beliefs considered inappropriate or wrong is based on the assertion
that each disciple is accountable ultimately to the Lord (Rom 14:4), and all will equally “stand
before God’s judgment seat” (Rom 14:10).

The larger perspective which ought to guide
Christians’ attitudes toward opponents is derived by Paul from the teaching of Jesus. Thus,
echoing Matthew 5:44, Paul says, “Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse”
(Rom 12:14). Our task as Christians is to “overcome evil with good” (Rom 12:21).


The overall teaching, attitude and life of Jesus stand also in apparent conflict with Paul’s
word of condemnation. Jesus’ radical imperative on the matter is “Do not judge, or you too
will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged” (Mt 7:1–2).

The
reason given for this imperative is that our own vision may be so impaired that it is sheer

hypocrisy to try to remove the sawdust particle in the other’s eye (Mt 7:3, 5).

The proper
response to those who are opposed to us is to love them and pray for them (Mt 5:44). Beyond
these words, Jesus’ entire life is a demonstration of his words’ validity. He did not come into

a world opposed to God to condemn it but to save it (Jn 3:17).

Because of his deep
compassion he weeps over Jerusalem (Lk 19:41), the city that kills the prophets and those
(like Jesus) sent to it (Lk 13:34). To the adulteress he speaks the word of forgiveness rather
than judgment (Jn 8:10–11); to the criminal hanging on a cross next to him he speaks the
word of grace (Lk 23:39–43).

As Paul’s words against judging seem to stand in conflict with his harsh words in
Galatians 1:9, so the larger picture of Jesus’ teaching and life, characterized by love and
compassion, by humility and forgiveness, stands in apparent conflict with another dimension
of his life. Jesus’ words and actions could be uncompromisingly harsh toward those who
opposed him and his ministry and whose “piety” excluded the redemptive work of God. He
calls the religious leaders of his own people “sons of the devil,” whose desire they carry out

(Jn 8:44).

Those who oppose his ministry of releasing the possessed from bondage are called
“an evil generation” (Lk 11:29 RSV), who will be judged and condemned (Lk 11:31–32).
Those who oppose the work of the Spirit of God in and through his life (Mt 12:28) will be
condemned eternally; for them there is no forgiveness (Mt 12:31–32). Words of bitter
denunciation are spoken against the teachers of the law and Pharisees, whom he calls
“child[ren] of hell” (Mt 23:15 RSV), “blind fools” (Mt 23:17), “whitewashed tombs” (Mt
23:27), “snakes” and a “brood of vipers” who cannot “escape being condemned to hell” (Mt
23:33).

When we carefully compare this radically harsh tone in Jesus’ teaching with that strand in
his life which exudes compassion and forgiveness, we recognize where the essential
difference lies. He came as the incarnation of God’s redemptive love, and wherever there is
openness to it, forgiveness is given, grace is experienced, sin is overcome. But where there is
absolute rejection of that redemptive love, where the work of God is identified as demonic,
where truth is trampled underfoot, there condemnation is pronounced. It is within this latter
context of the rejection of God’s redemptive love that this hard saying must be understood.
In Paul’s epistle to the Galatians, the central issue addressed is this: the core of the gospel
which Paul had preached and on which their faith was based is that we are justified, brought
into a right relationship with God, solely by his grace and through faith, not by gaining a
standing before God on the basis of obedience to the law (Gal 2:15–21). That gospel was
being challenged by the so-called Judaizers; namely, Jewish Christians who demanded that
Gentile Christians observe the Mosaic law, including ritual observances such as special days,
kosher foods and circumcision (Gal 3:1–7; 4:8–11, 17, 21–22). Those who respond to their
teaching, who are led away from the truth (Gal 5:7), who now seek “to be justified by law,
have been alienated from Christ” and have “fallen away from grace” (Gal 5:4).
For Paul the conflict between the gospel which he preached and the teaching of the
Judaizers is a life-and-death struggle. Why?

Because legalistic obedience, life before God
based on religious achievement, does not bring one into right relationship with God (Gal 2:16;
3:3) but to alienation from him (Gal 5:4), to rejection of God’s grace (Gal 2:21), to a life of
legalistic bondage (Gal 4:9, 21; 5:1), to the curse of death (Gal 3:10–13).

Those who teach this way are “false brothers” (Gal 2:4) who oppose the “truth of the
gospel” (Gal 2:5, 14), confuse the believers (Gal 1:7), “pervert the gospel of Christ” (Gal 1:7),

bewitch the saints (Gal 3:1).

Therefore, let anyone who does this “be eternally condemned”
(Gal 1:8–9). This strong language shows how serious the matter was for Paul. George Duncan
puts it well when he calls these words “an imprecation such as we cannot imagine him using
had it been merely his personal prestige … anything, in fact, but the gospel of Christ which
was at stake.”1

It is clear then that Paul is not calling for the condemnation of his opponents (that is, the
Judaizers) because they are opposed to him, but rather because they are enemies of the gospel.
That gospel is of divine origin, not of Paul’s invention (Gal 1:11–12). Therefore, those who
pervert it subvert God’s redemptive purpose. On those who thus act and teach, the judgment
of God is justly pronounced. Thus there is here no real conflict between Paul’s general call for
a nonjudgmental spirit and his strong word of judgment here, just as there is no real conflict
between Jesus’ teaching on love for one’s opponents and his words of judgment. In both
cases, where the work and truth of God is at stake, those who reject it stand under judgment.

F.F. Bruce-Hard Sayings.
To many even the very harsh words He, as in JESUS HIMSELF , spoke against ungodly sinners would have seemed contrary .
Even the dire warnings of GOD in the old test against ungoldy ones would have seemed contrary . YET THEY WERE not .
This is why i have often said the MORE we read the bible for ourselves
the more it would come together . Sin was corrected asap quick in them churches .
They all knew leaven would quickly leaven up a place .
The desire is for the good of the people . Thus all sin must quickly be corrected .
and i do mean quickly and very fast .
to rebuke sharply those in sin , IS NOT SIN to do so nor is it un loving , nor is it condmenation .
To expose false ones within the church , is not evil , nor wrong . It must be done and done quickly .
To expose false doctrines must be done so and done quickly .
Cause dont we know , has it not been said , has it not been written , ERROR bets error .
Leaven brings only more leaven .
Jude . try reading his letter and you sees what he calls some of them false ones .
James , Ye adultereres and adutlresses ...............
Paul , by the power of GOD , even had a man made blind for trying to lead that ol deputy AWAY from the faith .
Rather odd that today a whole heap of these leaders have long turned this people away FROM THE FAITH
and led them into bondage and a false love gospel . THEM wolves be exposed on my watch .
I could name a lot of names right now . But neither you nor me nor anyone else who reads this
could read that list . ITS LONG johann . VERY LONG .
This is not to accuse you of doing such a thing . IT just a very friendly , grave , but necessary reminder to the people .
We in a war and the unholy harlot IS MERGING ALL . I am gonna expose that harlot and her daughters and they doctrines .
 
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amigo de christo

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Bob Utley, in his sermon on judging others, emphasizes the interpretation of Matthew 7, where Jesus instructs against hypocritical judgment. Utley highlights that believers are called to discern right from wrong, but they must do so with humility and self-reflection. He points out that Jesus condemns judgment rooted in self-righteousness, encouraging believers to examine their own faults before addressing others. Utley reminds Christians that righteous judgment should be done with love and restoration in mind, not condemnation
Internet Archive.

This is not a situation like a church where people don’t know one another personally (Hebrews 10:25). Instead of focusing on sin all the time, fix your mind on Christ (Colossians 3:1-2). Be conscious of His righteousness and life in you (2 Corinthians 5:21), and remember that where sin abounds, grace abounds much more (Romans 5:20). Keep your eyes on Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith (Hebrews 12:2).

View attachment 49898

View attachment 49899

No need for continual reminders to people online you don't even know.

Luk_6:42 How can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me get that tiny speck out of your eye,' when you cannot see the girder in your own eye? You hypocrite! First get the girder out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly how to get out the tiny speck in your brother's eye.

One Body with Many Members
1Co 12:12 For just as the human body is one and yet has many parts, and all the parts of the body, many as they are, constitute but one body, so it is with Christ.
1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit all of us, Jews or Greeks, slaves or freemen, have been baptized into one body, and were all imbued with one Spirit.
1Co 12:14 For the body does not consist of one part but of many.
1Co 12:15 If the foot says, "Since I am not a hand, I am not a part of the body," that does not make it any less a part of the body.
1Co 12:16 If the ear says, "Since I am not an eye, I am not a part of the body," that does not make it any less a part of the body.
1Co 12:17 If all the body were an eye, how could we hear? If all the body were an ear, how could we smell?
1Co 12:18 But as it now is, God has placed the parts, every one of them, in the body just as He wanted them to be.
1Co 12:19 If they were all one part, how could it be a body?
1Co 12:20 But as it now is, there are many parts, but one body.
1Co 12:21 The eye cannot say to the hand, "I do not need you," or the hand to the feet, "I do not need you."
1Co 12:22 No, on the contrary, even those parts of the body that seem to be most delicate are indispensable,
1Co 12:23 and the parts of it we deem devoid of honor we dress with special honor, and our ill-shaped parts receive more careful attention,
1Co 12:24 while our well-shaped parts do not want for anything. Yes, God has perfectly adjusted the body, giving great honor to its apparently inferior parts,
1Co 12:25 so that there is no disharmony in the body, but all the parts have a common care for one another.
1Co 12:26 If one part suffers, all the parts suffer with it. If one part receives an honor, all the parts can share its joy.
1Co 12:27 So you are Christ's body, and individually parts of it.
1Co 12:28 And God has placed people in the church, first as apostles, second as prophets, third as teachers, then wonder-workers; then people with power to cure the sick, helpers, managers, ecstatic speakers.
1Co 12:29 Not all are apostles, are they? Not all are prophets, are they? Not all are teachers, are they? Not all are wonder-workers, are they?
1Co 12:30 Not all are people with power to cure the sick, are they? Not all are ecstatic speakers, are they? Not all can explain ecstatic speaking, can they?
1Co 12:31 But you must earnestly continue to cultivate your higher spiritual gifts. And yet I will show you a way that is better by far:
Williams Bible.

Be blessed
J.
Well if folks would have followed the pattern JESUS set and later the apostels did
i would not have to be always warning . But no , under guise of hugging n loving and unity unity unity
we got folks here who even preach another gospel , folks that even honor sins
and ALL i see is unity unity unity , lets just get along . We been duped johann .
And the leaven will take this site too . IF we actually did do as JESUS and the apostels said to do
Then churches as well as sites could have been far better off . But today the motto is JUDGE NOT
Correct not , HUG and have unity . Well when it all tanks not a one of you all can blame me . I DID my part
to expose sin and this delusion so many now see as love and unity . Its a false version johann .
You know how leaven gets a foothold into any place or church . It begins with two words .
JUDGE NOT . correction gets stopped , LEAVEN GROWS . just a friendly reminder my friend .
 
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Lizbeth

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The way I look at it, we should let the WORD be preached, in season and out of season (whether it's convenient or feels good to some or not) as long as we leave ourselves and our flesh out of it, but leave room for the Lord to work and bring any needed conviction or not, and leave it to the hearers how they will respond. The word itself is powerful and doesnt' need our help. It raises a banner/standard against things that are wrong....like a healing balm or spiritual antiseptic. And it's the plumbline so that we can see what we are seeking and needing to line up with. If we try to add our own insistence or anger etc we will get in the way of God and be counterproductive. And I believe we do need to remember and factor in mercy....that is the point of the new covenant. Not serving in the old way of the letter but the new way of the Spirit. Mercy truly is a thing under the new covenant, as long as it is not abused by using it as a cloak or license to sin.

One example that comes to mind......some people having suffered trauma and abuses as children might struggle with certain things (bondages) that are not such a problem for those who didn't suffer those kinds of traumas. People can get badly wounded and messed up in this life.......in such circumstances I believe it could be adding sin to sin to hand such ones over to Satan for the destruction of their flesh....as long as they aren't justifying their sin but sincerely desiring and seeking the Lord to be delivered from the bondage. God in His wisdom gives us crosses to bear and battles to fight, for our own eventual good as well as to bring Him glory. We are to be led by the Spirit, not by the letter.....so there are times when we need to seek God's wisdom and will (and mercy) for each individual situation.

Another thing is that I believe in general we do want to be careful of overemphasizing one truth at the expense of others. That has a tendency to form "denominations" or cliques, even small ones. There are different parts of the body with their own corner of the battlefield and message or mission from God, so we need to keep in mind that there are other things that need to be heard and looked at for a healthy Body. The bible is a big, deep and rich book containing many and much truth, and of course we need to keep growing, and resist the temptation to sort of camp out in one single aspect of things. Just my thoughts here, hope it makes sense.
 
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J

Johann

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To expose false ones within the church , is not evil , nor wrong . It must be done and done quickly .
To expose false doctrines must be done so and done quickly .
This is not a Church-this is online Internet with over 32'000 different denomination. You have your work cut out for you
Rather odd that today a whole heap of these leaders have long turned this people away FROM THE FAITH
and led them into bondage and a false love gospel . THEM wolves be exposed on my watch .
I could name a lot of names right now . But neither you nor me nor anyone else who reads this
could read that list . ITS LONG johann . VERY LONG .
True-however this here is not a "church"
Well if folks would have followed the pattern JESUS set and later the apostels did
i would not have to be always warning . But no , under guise of hugging n loving and unity unity unity
we got folks here who even preach another gospel , folks that even honor sins
and ALL i see is unity unity unity , lets just get along . We been duped johann .
Agree-however this is not a Church-this is an online Forum.
You know how leaven gets a foothold into any place or church . It begins with two words .
JUDGE NOT . correction gets stopped , LEAVEN GROWS . just a friendly reminder my friend .
Agree-however this is not a ekklesia-
Eph 6:11 You must put on God's full armor, so as to be able to stand up against the devil's stratagems.
Eph 6:12 For our contest is not with human foes alone, but with the rulers, authorities, and cosmic powers of this dark world; that is, with the spirit-forces of evil challenging us in the heavenly contest.
Eph 6:13 So you must take on God's full armor, so as to be able to take a stand in the day when evil attacks you, and, after having completely finished the contest, to hold your own.
Eph 6:14 Hold your position, then, with your waist encircled with the belt of truth, put on right-doing as a coat of mail,
Eph 6:15 and put on your feet the preparation the good news of peace supplies.
Eph 6:16 Besides all these, take on the shield which faith provides, for with it you will be able to put out all the fire-tipped arrows shot by the evil one,
Eph 6:17 take the helmet salvation provides, and take the sword the Spirit wields, which is the word of God.
Eph 6:18 Keep on praying in the Spirit, with every kind of prayer and entreaty, at every opportunity, be ever on the alert with perfect devotion and entreaty for all God's people,
Eph 6:19 and for me that a message may be given me when I open my lips, so that I may boldly make known the open secret of the good news,
Eph 6:20 for the sake of which I am an envoy in prison: so that, when I tell it, I may speak as courageously as I ought.
Williams Bible


Qualifications for Elders
Tit 1:5 I left you in Crete for this express purpose, to set in order the things that are lacking, and to appoint elders in each town, as I directed you --
Tit 1:6 each elder must be above reproach, have only one wife, and his children must not be liable to the charge of profligacy or disobedience.
Tit 1:7 For as God's trustee a pastor must be above reproach, not stubborn or quick-tempered or addicted to strong drink or pugnacious or addicted to dishonest gain,
Tit 1:8 but hospitable, a lover of goodness, sensible, upright, of pure life, self-controlled,
Tit 1:9 and a man who continues to cling to the trustworthy message as he was taught it, so that he may be competent to encourage others with wholesome teaching and to convict those who oppose him.
Tit 1:10 For there are many insubordinate people, mere talkers with nothing to say, but deceivers of their own minds, especially those of the circumcision party,
Tit 1:11 whose mouths must be stopped, for they upset whole families by teaching things they ought not to think, for the sake of dishonest gain.
Tit 1:12 One of them, a prophet of their own countrymen, has said, "Cretans are always liars, wicked brutes, lazy bellies."
Tit 1:13 Now this tendency is true. So continue correcting them severely, that they may be healthy in faith,
Tit 1:14 by ceasing to give attention to Jewish myths and to the commands of men who turn their backs on the truth.

Tit 1:15 To the pure everything is pure, but to the impure and unbelieving nothing is pure, but their very minds and consciences are impure.
Tit 1:16 They profess to know God, but by their actions they disown Him; they are detestable, disobedient, and useless for anything good.

Your verse you use frequently-out of context may I add.

False teachers and cult groups can be quickly identified by three characteristics.

1. exploitation of money

2. exploitation of sexual freedom

3. a claim to unique and direct revelation

If your religious leaders want your money, your wife, and claim God told them — run!

1:12 "One of themselves a prophet" Epimenides lived in the sixth century b.c. and was from Crete. The fact that Paul quotes one of their poets shows the Greek influence on this island and in the heresy. Paul quotes from Greek philosophers and poets at least three times in his writings (cf. Acts 17:28; 1 Cor. 15:13; Titus 1:12). His home town of Tarsus was known for its educational institutions. Paul was highly educated in both Greek and Hebrew culture.

Paul may have called Epimenides a prophet because he wrote truly about the inhabitants of Crete or possibly because the Cretans considered him a speaker inspired by the Greek gods. He was known as one of the wisest men of Crete.

"Cretans are always liars" This is in hexameter poetic form. The Cretans believed and bragged that Zeus was buried on their island. The term "cretinous" meant "a liar." In this context this characterization seems to relate to the false teachers, not the churches or the general public.

"lazy gluttons" The basic meaning of the phrase is greed (cf. Phil. 3:19).

1:13 "reprove them severely" This literally means "cut off with a knife." This is a present active imperative. This strong term is used only here in the NT. Additional admonitions to strongly rebuke can be seen in 1 Tim. 5:25; 2 Tim. 4:2; Titus 2:15.

See-I'm giving you ammunition!

"so that they may be sound in the faith" This shows that discipline is to be redemptive, not punitive (cf. 1 Cor. 5:5; Heb. 12:5-13). The pronouns in Titus 1:13 refer to the false teachers (cf. 2 Tim. 2:25-26).

The term "sound" is a recurrent theme in the Pastoral Letters, which refers to something being healthy (cf. 1 Tim. 1:10; 2 Tim. 1:13; 4:3; Titus 1:9,13; 2:1,2,8).

1:14 "Jewish myths" These myths may be connected to Jewish speculation about the genealogy of the Messiah (cf. Titus 3:9; 1 Tim. 1:4; 2 Tim. 4:4). For a good discussion of the differing connotations of "myth" see G. B. Caird, The Language and Imagery of the Bible, pp. 219-242.

"and commandments of men" This, in context, seems to refer to the Oral Tradition of the Jews, later codified in the Babylonian and Palestinian Talmuds (cf. Isa. 29:13; Mark 7:7-8; Col. 2:16-23).

"who turn away from the truth" This is a present middle participle. These false teachers continue to turn away from the gospel. See Special Topic: Truth at 1 Tim. 2:4.

1:15 "To the pure, all things are pure" "Everything" is put first in the Greek sentence for emphasis. This truth is hard for some believers to understand (cf. 1 Tim. 4:4; Mark 7:15-23; Luke 11:41; Rom. 14:14,20; 1 Cor. 10:23-33)! This possibly relates to asceticism so common in Greek religious philosophical traditions (cf. 1 Tim. 4:3; Col. 2:20-22). Legalistic Christians often lose the biblical balance at this very point (cf. Rom. 14:1-15:13)!

"but to those who are defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure" The first cognate verbal is a perfect passive participle and the second is a perfect passive indicative, which speaks of a settled state produced by an outside agent, here possibly the evil one. This type of person twists everything and everyone for personal interest (ex. Acts 20:29).


1:16 "They profess to know God" "God" is placed first in the Greek sentence for emphasis. These false teachers claim to be religious! They claim godliness based on human regulations (cf. Isa. 29:13; Col. 2:16-23), but in reality, they are defiled. Some see this as another evidence of the Jewish element of the heresy because of the term "God" rather than Christ. For "profess" see SPECIAL TOPIC: CONFESSION at 1 Tim. 6:12.

"but by their deeds they deny Him" This is a present middle indicative. Believers' lifestyle choices give evidence of their true conversion (cf. Matt. 7:16,20; 1 John and James).

"detestable" This is a term used often in the Septuagint translated "abominable" (cf. Rev. 17:4) and is often associated with idolatry. It literally means "smelly" (cf. Rev. 21:8).
"and disobedient and worthless for any good deed" What a shocking phrase (cf. 1 Cor. 3:10-15; 2 Pet. 1:8-11)!

The word "disobedient" is also used in Titus 3:3 to describe how believers lived before the grace of God/Christ changed them (3:4)!

The word "worthless" literally means "failure to pass the test" (dokimos with the alpha privative, cf. 1 Cor. 9:27; 2 Tim. 3:8). See Special Topic: The Greek Term for "Testing" at 1 Tim. 6:9.


You have a blessed day-I don't want to be online all the time.
J.
 
J

Johann

Guest
This is not a Church-this is online Internet with over 32'000 different denomination. You have your work cut out for you

True-however this here is not a "church"

Agree-however this is not a Church-this is an online Forum.

Agree-however this is not a ekklesia-
Eph 6:11 You must put on God's full armor, so as to be able to stand up against the devil's stratagems.
Eph 6:12 For our contest is not with human foes alone, but with the rulers, authorities, and cosmic powers of this dark world; that is, with the spirit-forces of evil challenging us in the heavenly contest.
Eph 6:13 So you must take on God's full armor, so as to be able to take a stand in the day when evil attacks you, and, after having completely finished the contest, to hold your own.
Eph 6:14 Hold your position, then, with your waist encircled with the belt of truth, put on right-doing as a coat of mail,
Eph 6:15 and put on your feet the preparation the good news of peace supplies.
Eph 6:16 Besides all these, take on the shield which faith provides, for with it you will be able to put out all the fire-tipped arrows shot by the evil one,
Eph 6:17 take the helmet salvation provides, and take the sword the Spirit wields, which is the word of God.
Eph 6:18 Keep on praying in the Spirit, with every kind of prayer and entreaty, at every opportunity, be ever on the alert with perfect devotion and entreaty for all God's people,
Eph 6:19 and for me that a message may be given me when I open my lips, so that I may boldly make known the open secret of the good news,
Eph 6:20 for the sake of which I am an envoy in prison: so that, when I tell it, I may speak as courageously as I ought.
Williams Bible


Qualifications for Elders
Tit 1:5 I left you in Crete for this express purpose, to set in order the things that are lacking, and to appoint elders in each town, as I directed you --
Tit 1:6 each elder must be above reproach, have only one wife, and his children must not be liable to the charge of profligacy or disobedience.
Tit 1:7 For as God's trustee a pastor must be above reproach, not stubborn or quick-tempered or addicted to strong drink or pugnacious or addicted to dishonest gain,
Tit 1:8 but hospitable, a lover of goodness, sensible, upright, of pure life, self-controlled,
Tit 1:9 and a man who continues to cling to the trustworthy message as he was taught it, so that he may be competent to encourage others with wholesome teaching and to convict those who oppose him.
Tit 1:10 For there are many insubordinate people, mere talkers with nothing to say, but deceivers of their own minds, especially those of the circumcision party,
Tit 1:11 whose mouths must be stopped, for they upset whole families by teaching things they ought not to think, for the sake of dishonest gain.
Tit 1:12 One of them, a prophet of their own countrymen, has said, "Cretans are always liars, wicked brutes, lazy bellies."
Tit 1:13 Now this tendency is true. So continue correcting them severely, that they may be healthy in faith,
Tit 1:14 by ceasing to give attention to Jewish myths and to the commands of men who turn their backs on the truth.

Tit 1:15 To the pure everything is pure, but to the impure and unbelieving nothing is pure, but their very minds and consciences are impure.
Tit 1:16 They profess to know God, but by their actions they disown Him; they are detestable, disobedient, and useless for anything good.

Your verse you use frequently-out of context may I add.

False teachers and cult groups can be quickly identified by three characteristics.

1. exploitation of money

2. exploitation of sexual freedom

3. a claim to unique and direct revelation

If your religious leaders want your money, your wife, and claim God told them — run!

1:12 "One of themselves a prophet" Epimenides lived in the sixth century b.c. and was from Crete. The fact that Paul quotes one of their poets shows the Greek influence on this island and in the heresy. Paul quotes from Greek philosophers and poets at least three times in his writings (cf. Acts 17:28; 1 Cor. 15:13; Titus 1:12). His home town of Tarsus was known for its educational institutions. Paul was highly educated in both Greek and Hebrew culture.

Paul may have called Epimenides a prophet because he wrote truly about the inhabitants of Crete or possibly because the Cretans considered him a speaker inspired by the Greek gods. He was known as one of the wisest men of Crete.

"Cretans are always liars" This is in hexameter poetic form. The Cretans believed and bragged that Zeus was buried on their island. The term "cretinous" meant "a liar." In this context this characterization seems to relate to the false teachers, not the churches or the general public.

"lazy gluttons" The basic meaning of the phrase is greed (cf. Phil. 3:19).

1:13 "reprove them severely" This literally means "cut off with a knife." This is a present active imperative. This strong term is used only here in the NT. Additional admonitions to strongly rebuke can be seen in 1 Tim. 5:25; 2 Tim. 4:2; Titus 2:15.

See-I'm giving you ammunition!

"so that they may be sound in the faith" This shows that discipline is to be redemptive, not punitive (cf. 1 Cor. 5:5; Heb. 12:5-13). The pronouns in Titus 1:13 refer to the false teachers (cf. 2 Tim. 2:25-26).

The term "sound" is a recurrent theme in the Pastoral Letters, which refers to something being healthy (cf. 1 Tim. 1:10; 2 Tim. 1:13; 4:3; Titus 1:9,13; 2:1,2,8).

1:14 "Jewish myths" These myths may be connected to Jewish speculation about the genealogy of the Messiah (cf. Titus 3:9; 1 Tim. 1:4; 2 Tim. 4:4). For a good discussion of the differing connotations of "myth" see G. B. Caird, The Language and Imagery of the Bible, pp. 219-242.

"and commandments of men" This, in context, seems to refer to the Oral Tradition of the Jews, later codified in the Babylonian and Palestinian Talmuds (cf. Isa. 29:13; Mark 7:7-8; Col. 2:16-23).

"who turn away from the truth" This is a present middle participle. These false teachers continue to turn away from the gospel. See Special Topic: Truth at 1 Tim. 2:4.

1:15 "To the pure, all things are pure" "Everything" is put first in the Greek sentence for emphasis. This truth is hard for some believers to understand (cf. 1 Tim. 4:4; Mark 7:15-23; Luke 11:41; Rom. 14:14,20; 1 Cor. 10:23-33)! This possibly relates to asceticism so common in Greek religious philosophical traditions (cf. 1 Tim. 4:3; Col. 2:20-22). Legalistic Christians often lose the biblical balance at this very point (cf. Rom. 14:1-15:13)!

"but to those who are defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure" The first cognate verbal is a perfect passive participle and the second is a perfect passive indicative, which speaks of a settled state produced by an outside agent, here possibly the evil one. This type of person twists everything and everyone for personal interest (ex. Acts 20:29).


1:16 "They profess to know God" "God" is placed first in the Greek sentence for emphasis. These false teachers claim to be religious! They claim godliness based on human regulations (cf. Isa. 29:13; Col. 2:16-23), but in reality, they are defiled. Some see this as another evidence of the Jewish element of the heresy because of the term "God" rather than Christ. For "profess" see SPECIAL TOPIC: CONFESSION at 1 Tim. 6:12.

"but by their deeds they deny Him" This is a present middle indicative. Believers' lifestyle choices give evidence of their true conversion (cf. Matt. 7:16,20; 1 John and James).

"detestable" This is a term used often in the Septuagint translated "abominable" (cf. Rev. 17:4) and is often associated with idolatry. It literally means "smelly" (cf. Rev. 21:8).
"and disobedient and worthless for any good deed" What a shocking phrase (cf. 1 Cor. 3:10-15; 2 Pet. 1:8-11)!

The word "disobedient" is also used in Titus 3:3 to describe how believers lived before the grace of God/Christ changed them (3:4)!

The word "worthless" literally means "failure to pass the test" (dokimos with the alpha privative, cf. 1 Cor. 9:27; 2 Tim. 3:8). See Special Topic: The Greek Term for "Testing" at 1 Tim. 6:9.


You have a blessed day-I don't want to be online all the time.
J.
Well if folks would have followed the pattern JESUS set and later the apostels did
i would not have to be always warning . But no , under guise of hugging n loving and unity unity unity
we got folks here who even preach another gospel , folks that even honor sins
and ALL i see is unity unity unity , lets just get along . We been duped johann .
And the leaven will take this site too . IF we actually did do as JESUS and the apostels said to do
Then churches as well as sites could have been far better off . But today the motto is JUDGE NOT
Correct not , HUG and have unity . Well when it all tanks not a one of you all can blame me . I DID my part
to expose sin and this delusion so many now see as love and unity . Its a false version johann .
You know how leaven gets a foothold into any place or church . It begins with two words .
JUDGE NOT . correction gets stopped , LEAVEN GROWS . just a friendly reminder my friend .
 

Lizbeth

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This is not a Church-this is online Internet with over 32'000 different denomination. You have your work cut out for you

True-however this here is not a "church"

Agree-however this is not a Church-this is an online Forum.

Agree-however this is not a ekklesia-
Eph 6:11 You must put on God's full armor, so as to be able to stand up against the devil's stratagems.
Eph 6:12 For our contest is not with human foes alone, but with the rulers, authorities, and cosmic powers of this dark world; that is, with the spirit-forces of evil challenging us in the heavenly contest.
Eph 6:13 So you must take on God's full armor, so as to be able to take a stand in the day when evil attacks you, and, after having completely finished the contest, to hold your own.
Eph 6:14 Hold your position, then, with your waist encircled with the belt of truth, put on right-doing as a coat of mail,
Eph 6:15 and put on your feet the preparation the good news of peace supplies.
Eph 6:16 Besides all these, take on the shield which faith provides, for with it you will be able to put out all the fire-tipped arrows shot by the evil one,
Eph 6:17 take the helmet salvation provides, and take the sword the Spirit wields, which is the word of God.
Eph 6:18 Keep on praying in the Spirit, with every kind of prayer and entreaty, at every opportunity, be ever on the alert with perfect devotion and entreaty for all God's people,
Eph 6:19 and for me that a message may be given me when I open my lips, so that I may boldly make known the open secret of the good news,
Eph 6:20 for the sake of which I am an envoy in prison: so that, when I tell it, I may speak as courageously as I ought.
Williams Bible


Qualifications for Elders
Tit 1:5 I left you in Crete for this express purpose, to set in order the things that are lacking, and to appoint elders in each town, as I directed you --
Tit 1:6 each elder must be above reproach, have only one wife, and his children must not be liable to the charge of profligacy or disobedience.
Tit 1:7 For as God's trustee a pastor must be above reproach, not stubborn or quick-tempered or addicted to strong drink or pugnacious or addicted to dishonest gain,
Tit 1:8 but hospitable, a lover of goodness, sensible, upright, of pure life, self-controlled,
Tit 1:9 and a man who continues to cling to the trustworthy message as he was taught it, so that he may be competent to encourage others with wholesome teaching and to convict those who oppose him.
Tit 1:10 For there are many insubordinate people, mere talkers with nothing to say, but deceivers of their own minds, especially those of the circumcision party,
Tit 1:11 whose mouths must be stopped, for they upset whole families by teaching things they ought not to think, for the sake of dishonest gain.
Tit 1:12 One of them, a prophet of their own countrymen, has said, "Cretans are always liars, wicked brutes, lazy bellies."
Tit 1:13 Now this tendency is true. So continue correcting them severely, that they may be healthy in faith,
Tit 1:14 by ceasing to give attention to Jewish myths and to the commands of men who turn their backs on the truth.

Tit 1:15 To the pure everything is pure, but to the impure and unbelieving nothing is pure, but their very minds and consciences are impure.
Tit 1:16 They profess to know God, but by their actions they disown Him; they are detestable, disobedient, and useless for anything good.

Your verse you use frequently-out of context may I add.

False teachers and cult groups can be quickly identified by three characteristics.

1. exploitation of money

2. exploitation of sexual freedom

3. a claim to unique and direct revelation

If your religious leaders want your money, your wife, and claim God told them — run!

1:12 "One of themselves a prophet" Epimenides lived in the sixth century b.c. and was from Crete. The fact that Paul quotes one of their poets shows the Greek influence on this island and in the heresy. Paul quotes from Greek philosophers and poets at least three times in his writings (cf. Acts 17:28; 1 Cor. 15:13; Titus 1:12). His home town of Tarsus was known for its educational institutions. Paul was highly educated in both Greek and Hebrew culture.

Paul may have called Epimenides a prophet because he wrote truly about the inhabitants of Crete or possibly because the Cretans considered him a speaker inspired by the Greek gods. He was known as one of the wisest men of Crete.

"Cretans are always liars" This is in hexameter poetic form. The Cretans believed and bragged that Zeus was buried on their island. The term "cretinous" meant "a liar." In this context this characterization seems to relate to the false teachers, not the churches or the general public.

"lazy gluttons" The basic meaning of the phrase is greed (cf. Phil. 3:19).

1:13 "reprove them severely" This literally means "cut off with a knife." This is a present active imperative. This strong term is used only here in the NT. Additional admonitions to strongly rebuke can be seen in 1 Tim. 5:25; 2 Tim. 4:2; Titus 2:15.

See-I'm giving you ammunition!

"so that they may be sound in the faith" This shows that discipline is to be redemptive, not punitive (cf. 1 Cor. 5:5; Heb. 12:5-13). The pronouns in Titus 1:13 refer to the false teachers (cf. 2 Tim. 2:25-26).

The term "sound" is a recurrent theme in the Pastoral Letters, which refers to something being healthy (cf. 1 Tim. 1:10; 2 Tim. 1:13; 4:3; Titus 1:9,13; 2:1,2,8).

1:14 "Jewish myths" These myths may be connected to Jewish speculation about the genealogy of the Messiah (cf. Titus 3:9; 1 Tim. 1:4; 2 Tim. 4:4). For a good discussion of the differing connotations of "myth" see G. B. Caird, The Language and Imagery of the Bible, pp. 219-242.

"and commandments of men" This, in context, seems to refer to the Oral Tradition of the Jews, later codified in the Babylonian and Palestinian Talmuds (cf. Isa. 29:13; Mark 7:7-8; Col. 2:16-23).

"who turn away from the truth" This is a present middle participle. These false teachers continue to turn away from the gospel. See Special Topic: Truth at 1 Tim. 2:4.

1:15 "To the pure, all things are pure" "Everything" is put first in the Greek sentence for emphasis. This truth is hard for some believers to understand (cf. 1 Tim. 4:4; Mark 7:15-23; Luke 11:41; Rom. 14:14,20; 1 Cor. 10:23-33)! This possibly relates to asceticism so common in Greek religious philosophical traditions (cf. 1 Tim. 4:3; Col. 2:20-22). Legalistic Christians often lose the biblical balance at this very point (cf. Rom. 14:1-15:13)!

"but to those who are defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure" The first cognate verbal is a perfect passive participle and the second is a perfect passive indicative, which speaks of a settled state produced by an outside agent, here possibly the evil one. This type of person twists everything and everyone for personal interest (ex. Acts 20:29).


1:16 "They profess to know God" "God" is placed first in the Greek sentence for emphasis. These false teachers claim to be religious! They claim godliness based on human regulations (cf. Isa. 29:13; Col. 2:16-23), but in reality, they are defiled. Some see this as another evidence of the Jewish element of the heresy because of the term "God" rather than Christ. For "profess" see SPECIAL TOPIC: CONFESSION at 1 Tim. 6:12.

"but by their deeds they deny Him" This is a present middle indicative. Believers' lifestyle choices give evidence of their true conversion (cf. Matt. 7:16,20; 1 John and James).

"detestable" This is a term used often in the Septuagint translated "abominable" (cf. Rev. 17:4) and is often associated with idolatry. It literally means "smelly" (cf. Rev. 21:8).
"and disobedient and worthless for any good deed" What a shocking phrase (cf. 1 Cor. 3:10-15; 2 Pet. 1:8-11)!

The word "disobedient" is also used in Titus 3:3 to describe how believers lived before the grace of God/Christ changed them (3:4)!

The word "worthless" literally means "failure to pass the test" (dokimos with the alpha privative, cf. 1 Cor. 9:27; 2 Tim. 3:8). See Special Topic: The Greek Term for "Testing" at 1 Tim. 6:9.


You have a blessed day-I don't want to be online all the time.
J.
I don't know what all this is pertaining to, but while a forum is not "a" church, wherever you have believers it is "the church" in a more general sense. Each one may bring either what they receive from the Lord to bring and/or just to discuss and converse about things of God. In this way I even believe a forum more resembles a true ekklesia to some extent.....where it says when you come together every one of you hath a word, a revelation, a prophecy etc. I'd say there is more building up of the Body and growing in this format than in the vast majority of churches run by one man. It is supposed to be "the body building itself up in love" as it is being led by the Head of it, not just one man trying to build it up by himself being only one member/part, while he himself is not being built up by the rest of the Body who sit passively in pews saying and doing nothing. And the word of God is not confined to special buildings or formal gatherings, surely.
 
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PGS11

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This is a personal thing it has nothing to do with leaders or the world if everyone did it things would not be how they are.Overcoming sin is a personal thing also it not something for world leaders to do the world has its laws.All will be judged for there own sins there is no need for anyone to do it.No one was asked to judge or condemn anyone but there is a large group that wants to do exactly that.Its not personal for them when they believe they are forgiven they immediately focus on other peoples sins rather than being humble good examples for others to follow.The bible says things are about to go downhill in a bad and very evil way it doesn't say the world will turn Christian and become sinless.Forget the world leaders they can't help you they are and will be part of it.They are the last people to trust because it won't be for God it will be self serving.

Wouldn't you like to have Jesus say to you after being raised up:

He will set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then the King will tell those on his right hand, 'Come, blessed of my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry, and you gave me food to eat. I was thirsty, and you gave me drink. I was a stranger, and you took me in. I was naked, and you clothed me. I was sick, and you visited me. I was in prison, and you came to me.'

We are saved by faith but God also rewards

Romans 2:6-29​

For God will reward each of us according to what we have done. 7 Some people keep on doing good, and seek glory, honor, and immortal life; to them God will give eternal life. 8 Other people are selfish and reject what is right, in order to follow what is wrong; on them God will pour out his anger and fury.

To me if someone thinks works saves it is just ignorance someone who doe not understand their faith.If its a Christian Church it teaches you are saved by the sacrifice Jesus made not works. If it does not teach that it is not a Christian Church.

Its not personal sin that that don't affect others our laws were created for they were created to stop the truly evil who do it purposely and it works to some extent.But just look at the murder clock it ticks a murder every minute and a rape and molestation I could probably fill the whole page or pages with evil crimes going on at this minute.8 billion sinners God must be very angry they did not listen never has the world been in this way.
 
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WalkInLight

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As a teenage Christian, I couldn't always buy books. So I looked up the authors online. I found sermons by the late Dr. Tim Keller on line. His apologetics were very helpful to me as a new Christian.

The calvinist flavor of his theology made sense to me too. I began to listen to more "New Calvinist" preachers like Mark Driscoll, Steve Brown, and John Piper.

They often said great things Id agree with today. But they also taught me the idea that Christianity was better if I stopped trying so hard. Stopped being religious. "Rested in God's grace and the finished work of the cross."

Christianity was not about works in any way, I concluded. It was about our being accepted by faith in Christ.

In my heart I wanted to live a life that pleased the Lord. But I often struggled with vanity, pride, and lust, not seeming to be able to shake them. Id listen to Steve Brown for comfort and Paul Washer for conviction.

I began repeating phrases from Brown like" the only way we stop sinning is if we realize that if we never stop sinning, God will still love us."

It comforted me. I knew I would never be able to shake the sin and bouts of anger in my life.

Then, I joined a Christian forum (not this one) and it was a war zone. One camp shouted the virtues of eternal security. The other warned of a loss of salvation from disobedience. I tired of being on the fence so I did something crazy....

I reread the Bible cover to cover with no assumptions about what it would teach. I was shocked to see so many verses aimed at believers about obedience, shipwrecked faith, and becoming dead indeed to sin. I was horrified that no church had ever mentioned hardly any of those verses.

My trust in sermon media, churches, devotionals, and Christian culture never recovered.

They could have told me we are supposed to overcome sin and how to do it. Instead they catered to my flesh instead of equipping me to crucify it. They could have told me that the fear of the Lord was a good thing. They could have said a lot of things that would have led me to the God pleasing ways and clear conscience I craved.

I only trust Scripture now. I saw a good church an hour away. But right now---my husband and I stay in Scripture daily, discussing it, praying it, practicing to obey Jesus. Yes, obey Jesus, not just believe.

We don't need popular sayings about the faith. We need Scripture in context. We need to hear it in our ears. Put the microwave devotional down. Pick up the Bible. Read it out loud, play it on audio. Preferably not a new translation.
Doing what is appropriate. That is always a tough ask, if one is blind deaf and dumb.

Christian faith can easily become a jacket we put on, rather than in the quiet place we are honest and talk to God.
It is hard to be honest because without Jesus's love and our faith holding it real, the world appears a cruel and dangerous place.
Worse still our very hearts and emotions betray us.

I know believers who will talk to me for a short while and walk away judging me and rejecting anything I have to offer.
What they have never learnt is our hearts in the world are programmed to respond to everyone as a threat, either to be avoided
or used for their own benefit. It is not difficult to put on the shell of faith and the right words but be happy to chop others up.

So when the words "love one another as I have loved you" is read, it goes right over their heads because they love only themselves
and surviving.

Jesus was very wise, when He said "if my words dwell in you", because eventually the truth will get through.
"Let your yes be yes and your no be no." We so easily devalue the meaning of words to simply manipulation without truth.

The Lords way is His words are eternal. He does not change.

The difficulty with leadership, is the leader needs to actually be mature and able to show an example, rather than just get
nodding heads. So many aspire to only give up and try something else because they have no answers to the real trials
and tribulations there congregations have.

God bless you
 
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