Premils won't understand the amil view until they understand this.

[TribulationSigns]

As I say, the elements of the parable are not intented to be taken symbolically. The oil doesn't represent anything. The virgins don't represent anything.

If you are looking for "deeper spiritual meanings" you have already decided in advance what the text means before you study it.

Per your statement, you are offically spiritually blind which i can see where you comes from eith all the denials

Wish you the best

 

[CadyandZoe]

Wrong. Do you think it helps your case to misrepresent Amil?

It helps my case to identify contradictions.

It doesn't. It just makes you look like a liar and a fool.

Name-calling reveals the weakness in your argument.

We see his binding as being described symbolically and not literally.

By symbolically, you mean fictionally, right? Peter says that he isn't bound, he is roaming around like a lion. And Paul says that he is the prince of the power of the air, enslaving those who by nature are children of wrath and who walk according to the course of this world.

But, we do not say it's imaginary.

I know what you say, but that is the bottom line of your position. The way you use the word "spiritual" you mean "not actual."

What is hard to understand about symbolism for you?

I understand symbolism. It isn't hard to understand when an author employs symbolism to make a point. But according to Amil, symbolic language needs to be understood "spiritually," which means "the text means whatever we want it to mean."

Something being symbolic does not equate to it being fictional and imaginary and we've never said that.

Of course you didn't say it. But that is what you mean. Those who believe the Amil doctrine have a high tolerance for contradiction, textual dissonance, and eisegesis.

You interpret it all literally even though it talks about a dragon being bound with a great chain.

That's how symbolism works. The word "dragon" is symbolic, the word "chain" is metaphorical, but the word "bound" is neither symbolic nor metaphorical. The error of Amillennialism is to believe that the "binding" is also symbolic instead of actual.

Satan is not a physical being who can be literally bound with a great chain, but you don't want to acknowledge that. That's your problem.

No, that is your problem because unless Satan is bound now, which he isn't, then your interpretation is incorrect. I get that Satan is not a physical being that can be held captive by physical chains. But he is a being that can be held captive by some other kind of chain, which is able to hold Satan captive.

We have explained MANY times our understanding of his binding

Yes, but again what you say is not what you mean. You don't mean to say that Satan is being held captive, which is what binding means. You say he is bound but what you mean is he is limited in scope. That is a contradiction.

but you just ignore it and falsely claim that we "talk about spiritual things as if they were imaginary things".

You do.

No, we recognize symbolism in Revelation 20 and you don't.

Amil innovates a meaning that John didn't intend.

We don't say any of it is imaginary. We explain our understanding of his very real and not imaginary binding, but we believe it is described symbolically in Revelation 20. Your carnal mind is not able to understand our view, but there is no basis for saying that we claim it's all imaginary. That is a lie.

Your carnal mind is unable to see the contradictions in your view.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It helps my case to identify contradictions.

When do you plan on ever actually doing that?

Name-calling reveals the weakness in your argument.

I didn't call you any names, I just said what you're making yourself look like by misrepresenting Amil the way you do. It doesn't mean I'm saying you are a liar or a fool, but it makes you look like one when you repeatedly misrepresent Amil. But, maybe you're just very ignorant and can't help it.

By symbolically, you mean fictionally, right?

LOL. No. This is hopeless. Symbolism represents real things, not fictional things. I can't waste any more time on you. You can't understand anything. I'd have an easier time getting through to a toddler.

 

[CadyandZoe]

It's not a literal prison.

Of course, it is.

How can a spirit being be literally chained up in a literal prison?

He is chained up with chains that can bind him. Don't confuse physical with literal.

You are missing the symbolism. The prison is a symbol of Satan not being able to "prevent the advance of the Gospel or hurt those Christ owns.", as WPM said.

Where in Revelation 20 does it mention the advance of the Gospel? You know John doesn't mention it, and yet you are not embarrassed to put that idea into the passage. John tells you why Satan is bound and unable to deceive the nations and he isn't talking about the spread of the gospel. He is talking about an attack against the Saints.

Amil always adds content to passages in order to fit their narrative.

LOL. Did you not read what he said? What is wrong with you? He said Satan is not able to "prevent the advance of the Gospel or hurt those Christ owns.". So, he is restrained in that way. Hello? Wake up.

Yes, I read his post, which is false teaching based on a presupposed narrative. You have forgotten or never read that the Holy Spirit, not the binding of Satan is the basis for the spread of the Gospel. How much error can you take?

LOL. If you don't know what symbolism is, you're beyond help. Symbolism is not imaginary, as apparently everyone but you knows, but rather symbolizes things that are real. Hello? Why do the most basic things have to be spelled out to you? I think you're in over your head here.

The amil position doesn't understand the symbolism the way it was intended.

 

[CadyandZoe]

The wicked are depicted throughout Scripture as being in a spiritual prison, and bound by spiritual chains. Do you take that as literal, symbolic or imaginary?

I take it literally.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Per your statement, you are offically spiritually blind which i can see where you comes from eith all the denials

Wish you the best

Should I take your blessing as literal?

 

[CadyandZoe]

LOL. No. This is hopeless. Symbolism represents real things, not fictional things. I can't waste any more time on you. You can't understand anything. I'd have an easier time getting through to a toddler.

Okay, let's talk this through.

Consider what happens when someone is thrown into a pit. I'm not talking about spiritual beings right now. I'm talking about physical beings. Okay? When a person is put into a pit, can they roam around?

 

[Timtofly]

He never will.

So what is the point of the 7th Trumpet?

"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

You are saying the 7th Trumpet sounded at the Cross, since that is when you say Jesus started reigning over the earth.

 

[Timtofly]

Sure, why not? Again, John saw their souls. Why would you try to say he saw them with bodies when he said he saw their souls? Why would he say that he saw their souls if they had bodies?

So now there is no symbolism with these souls, but a literal view of heaven?

This scene is symbolic of humans covered by the Atonement Covenant of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. These souls are as literal as viewing Jesus as a physical Lamb.

You have turned a symbolic reference into a literal event. These are not even martyrs. These represent the entire church from Abel until the rapture. All are souls slain under the alter.

The 5th Seal is not about naked souls without bodies in heaven.

The 5th Seal is the church glorified as symbolized by the putting on of white robes. These white robes are not symbolic of physical bodies.

This is the final completion of being a son of God. You are a soul, that has never changed. The body you have returns to dust. God places you in a new body in heaven. The only part lacking is the spirit. Those robes of white symbolize putting on the spirit which then completes the restoration of a son of God.

John did not see their souls. He saw the redeemed as being covered by the blood of the Lamb. They were not literally under an alter either.

If I had posted what you did, you would accuse me of being carnally minded without spiritual discernment.

Adam and Eve had physical bodies prior to Adam's disobedience. I am not sure why you think having a physical body from God is being carnally minded? Having a physical body is part of a trinity in the direct image of God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.

Jesus is not the carnal aspect of God, as He never had a mortal body of sin and death, as you put it. They all have physical bodies of God (spiritual) in Paradise. Not the dead flesh from Adam (natural). 2 Corinthians 5:1.

You literally claim the OT redeemed had to physically die twice just so they would not have a physical body, but a naked soul walking around in Paradise serving God day and night in that heavenly temple. Or just "trapped" under the alter?

When Jesus led captivity captive per Paul, Jesus did not leave the OT redeemed without life as a naked soul. Jesus escorted them physically all the way to God and presented them as the firstfruits of the church covered by the Atonement Covenant, via a physical Cross, symbolic of a Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. But the OT redeemed had to wait for the Cross to receive their last day resurrection. They are not waiting for another resurrection. They already were given the first resurrection. The first resurrection is the physical body they came out of their graves in per Matthew 27:52-53. That was permanent, not a half hazard accomplishment by Jesus. They were made alive and no longer physically dead. They would never taste death again. Physical death being a soul without a physical body.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

So what is the point of the 7th Trumpet?

"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

You are saying the 7th Trumpet sounded at the Cross, since that is when you say Jesus started reigning over the earth.

No, I'm not saying that at all. You have no reading comprehension skills whatsoever. You need to go to school and learn how to read. Jesus will return at the 7th trumpet in the future. In no way, shape or form did I say that the 7th trumpet sounded at the cross.

 

[Timtofly]

Most premils also believe that this age ends at the coming of the Lord, so that's not just an amil teaching. The premils who believe this age ends at the coming of the Lord believe the thousand years is the age to come that Jesus talked about (Luke 20:34-36). But amils (except for some partial preterists) believe that the age to come is ushered in with the eternal new heavens and new earth.

"And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection."

There is nothing in those verses about ages.

That is your alleged interpretation, and assumption, based on your eschatology bias concerning the resurrection. Why would you agree with dispensationalists?

The resurrection of the OT out of Abraham's bosom at the Cross was that resurrection. In heaven they are like the angels, never dying and there is no procreation. Heaven is constantly being filled by those leaving the earth since the Cross. People are born on earth and then populate Paradise after the soul leaves this world for that other world, and they have physical bodies. Entering that world has been an ongoing phenomenon, since all receive that first resurrection into a physical body, who enter Paradise.

It is not about time on earth, age wise nor dispensations. It is about leaving death behind and enjoying eternal life. Yes, they are seated in heavenly places and could be even ruling and reigning with Christ.

But the Day of the Lord is about life on earth with Jesus on the earth after the Second Coming.

 

[Timtofly]

No, I'm not saying that at all. You have no reading comprehension skills whatsoever. You need to go to school and learn how to read. Jesus will return at the 7th trumpet in the future. In no way, shape or form did I say that the 7th trumpet sounded at the cross.

Yes, because that is when you say Jesus is King over all the nations, as declared at the 7th Trumpet.