It is time to give Pretrib a decent burial

[rwb]

I’m being a loving Christian and warning you that you are speaking nonsense.

How is pointing out the difference between the wise and foolish in the world "speaking nonsense"? That is what the ten virgins are used to represent. Where in the Bible is being foolish ever defined as those who are saved?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Iow you think ,erroneously ,the white horse coming depicted in Rev 19 , is the same as rev14?
Explain that bizarre belief.

Why do you think that two passages have to contain all the same details in order to be referring to the same event? That's ridiculous.

 

[IndianaRob]

How can the five foolish be considered among the wise who are saved since they took no oil in their lamps?

The lamp is the word of God (they word is a lamp unto my feet).

Unsaved people don’t carry around bibles. Unsaved people aren’t looking for the bridegroom.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The kingdom of heaven in the parable of the 10 virgins is the same kingdom of heaven in all the passages below. The kingdom of heaven in all of those parables has nothing to do with a future second coming of Christ.

Mat 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

Mat 13:24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:


Mat 13:25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

Mat 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

Why is there any discussion about a rapture, tribulation or future second coming of Jesus when analyzing the parable of the 10 virgins?

Didn't I already make it clear multiple times that I think you are clueless and it's a waste of my time responding to your nonsense? I'm pretty sure I did. So, don't waste your time talking to me, either. Denying that the passage is talking about the future second coming of Christ is ridiculous and shows that you have no discernment whatsoever.

 

[rwb]

I'd like to expand on what you said here by showing exactly what scripture indicates will happen to those, like the foolish virgins, who say "Lord, Lord, open to us" when Jesus comes again. Pretribbers claim that such people will be allowed to continue living during a time of tribulation after that. At least one pretribber claims that these people like the foolish virgins are saved despite Jesus telling them He doesn't know them. What? Jesus would never say that to a saved person.

So, what will happen to people like the foolish virgins who say "Lord, Lord, open to us" when He comes?

Matthew 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. 11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. 12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

Again, we can see here that Jesus will tell them that He doesn't know them.

Luke 13:25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: 26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. 27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. 28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

Here again, as in the parable of the ten virgins, we can see that Jesus, when He returns, will tell people who say "Lord, Lord, open to us" that He doesn't know them. But, now we have an added detail here showing what will happen to them at that point that isn't shown in the parable. Those people will be "thrust out" to where there is "weeping and gnashing of teeth" at that point. That doesn't seem like they are given another chance as pretribs claim.

Matthew 13:40 “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.

Jesus will return at the end of the age and He said that at the end of the age is when unbelievers will be cast into the fire "where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth". Clearly, people like the foolish virgins will not be given another chance when He returns but instead will be condemned to the lake of fire! You know pretrib is a horrible doctrine when it teaches that people will get another chance to repent when Jesus comes when in reality there time will have run out at that point and they will not get any more chances.

If Jesus doesn't know someone when He comes, including those who say "Lord, Lord, open to us", this is what will happen to them:

2 Thessalonians 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

He will not be giving them another chance, He will be taking vengeance on them and they will be separated from His presence forever.

Verse twelve should put the final nail in the coffin for those who believe the five foolish virgins were Christians! The notion that some will be given another chance to be saved when Christ returns has been soundly refuted!

 

[IndianaRob]

How is pointing out the difference between the wise and foolish in the world "speaking nonsense"? That is what the ten virgins are used to represent. Where in the Bible is being foolish ever defined as those who are saved?

He’s misrepresenting the parable.

 

[IndianaRob]

Didn't I already make it clear multiple times that I think you are clueless and it's a waste of my time responding to your nonsense? I'm pretty sure I did. So, don't waste your time talking to me, either. Denying that the passage is talking about the future second coming of Christ is ridiculous and shows that you have no discernment whatsoever.

I’ll always call you out when your wrong.

 

[rwb]

The lamp is the word of God (they word is a lamp unto my feet).

Unsaved people don’t carry around bibles. Unsaved people aren’t looking for the bridegroom.

So, do you believe the church as she exists on earth is occupied only with those who are saved because they all have Bibles?

 

[rwb]

He’s misrepresenting the parable.

No he isn't! The parable, as he points out is given so that we might be prepared in the day of the Lord when He returns again. This is necessary to point out because some are falsely teaching that people who are not prepared before Christ returns will still have opportunity to be saved, rather than the end of time whereby man MUST be saved! That, my friend, is a lie from the depths of hell and serves to give mankind false hope!

 

[IndianaRob]

So, do you believe the church as she exists on earth is occupied only with those who are saved because they all have Bibles?

No. I believe the church today is full of people who’s lamps have no oil.

 

[IndianaRob]

No he isn't! The parable, as he points out is given so that we might be prepared in the day of the Lord when He returns again. This is necessary to point out because some are falsely teaching that people who are not prepared before Christ returns will still have opportunity to be saved, rather than the end of time whereby man MUST be saved! That, my friend, is a lie from the depths of hell and serves to give mankind false hope!

The parable was about TEN VIRGINS looking for the bridegroom. The bridegroom CAME to the JEWS and the foolish ones missed him and where not able to enter the kingdom of heaven that Christ died to bring in.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The sudden destruction will be the sudden destruction of the peace and safety feeling that the world will have at the time

It says they are RUINED as a woman in pain with a child
They are emotionally destroyed.

This is what false teaching produces. It is ridiculous! It is fanciful! It is absurd!


And then Pretribbers wonder why we do not take their arguments serious. That is because their arguments are a joke.

LOL! I almost forgot about those ludicrous statements that they made. Those ridiculous interpretations of 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 say it all about how pretribbers are willing to do anything to make scripture say what they want it to say.

The "sudden destruction" from which "they shall not escape" is emotional destruction? LOL!

The "sudden destruction" from which "they shall not escape" is the sudden destruction of the peace and safety feeling? LOL!

Peter wrote about the same thing. So, we are supposed to believe that the following is just referring to emotional destruction and not physical destruction?

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

So, this is saying that people's emotions and the peace and safety feeling they have will be burned up and dissolved by fire? LOL! What emotions do the heavens and the elements have that will be dissolved? LOL! Do these people actually think anyone will buy that nonsense? Their dishonest treatment of scripture is unbelievable. They are willing to contort and twist it any way they feel they need to in order to get it to say what they want it to say. Though their interpretations are funny for how ridiculous they are, it's also sad that they resort to that instead of just accepting the truth.

 

[rwb]

No. I believe the church today is full of people who’s lamps have no oil.

Yes, I agree! That's because many among those who are saved are represented as foolish virgins. You cannot be among the saved without having the oil that comes from the Spirit in you. These five foolish virgins did not understand this and thought they too were saved simply by being connected with people of true faith in Christ. It seems to me, they sought salvation by association, rather than coming to a personal relationship with Christ alone. They thought the oil in the lamps of the wise virgins would be able to save them too. This is why Christ says, "YE (me, you, us, ourselves) must be born again".

 

[rwb]

The parable was about TEN VIRGINS looking for the bridegroom. The bridegroom CAME to the JEWS and the foolish ones missed him and where not able to enter the kingdom of heaven that Christ died to bring in.

I agree! The foolish Jews of Old in unbelief rejected the Messiah (bridegroom) when He came, and indeed have missed the opportunity to be saved. They, and no others who remain foolish shall be able to enter into the Kingdom of God in heaven if they are not eternally saved before Christ comes again.

 

[IndianaRob]

Yes, I agree! That's because many among those who are saved are represented as foolish virgins. You cannot be among the saved without having the oil that comes from the Spirit in you. These five foolish virgins did not understand this and thought they too were saved simply by being connected with people of true faith in Christ. It seems to me, they sought salvation by association, rather than coming to a personal relationship with Christ alone. They thought the oil in the lamps of the wise virgins would be able to save them too. This is why Christ says, "YE (me, you, us, ourselves) must be born again".

The parable of the 10 virgins is about the kingdom of heaven on earth.

This the same kingdom of heaven that other parables tell us has tares sown by the wicked one. it’s the same kingdom of heaven that which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

This parable has nothing to do with the heaven where God is. Do you think there will be tares or leaven in the heaven where God is?

 

[Marty fox]

No he isn't! The parable, as he points out is given so that we might be prepared in the day of the Lord when He returns again. This is necessary to point out because some are falsely teaching that people who are not prepared before Christ returns will still have opportunity to be saved, rather than the end of time whereby man MUST be saved! That, my friend, is a lie from the depths of hell and serves to give mankind false hope!

Amen today is the day of salvation

 

[Eternally Grateful]

But you have to prove it is future and unfulfilled and relates to a Pretrib position.

It being future does not make it a pretrib position. So their is your first error.

If you would like me to prove it, I will be more than happy to..

Can you give me another example in Scripture of such a decapitation of a harmonious time-period - like where God says 7 days and He didn't mean a linear, congruent and sequential 7 days, or 7 years and He didn't mean a linear, congruent and sequential 7 years, or 70 years and He didn't mean a linear, congruent and sequential 70 years? Anything?

How about a time in the OT where God listed a series of events that were sequential in order.. Yet there is even today 1000's of years between one aspect. and the other. would this help??

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

They hate the idea that the bride is gathered pretrib. Then proceed to modify the bible.
And when challenged to provide a postrib rapture verse, they can not.

Prove what you're saying with scripture if you want to be taken seriously. If you don't want to be taken seriously, then just keep making claims like this while doing nothing to back them up.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You are describing yourself. As I said in the Op, ad hominem and avoidance is the Pretribbers MO.

That's all we're seeing in this thread from them, as expected. They don't even attempt to exegete scripture, which is quite telling. They know that scripture doesn't support their false pre-trib doctrine or else they would show how it does. They just want to believe in sudden emotional destruction and nonsense like that instead of actually looking at what scripture teaches.

 

[WPM]

It being future does not make it a pretrib position. So their is your first error.

If you would like me to prove it, I will be more than happy to..

How about a time in the OT where God listed a series of events that were sequential in order.. Yet there is even today 1000's of years between one aspect. and the other. would this help??

Prove it. I am talking about a literal whole number here.