Proof of Rapture before Tribulation

[ewq1938]

The two witnesses when overcome by the beast will lay dead in the streets of Jerusalem for 3 1/2 days. How could that be speaking about two church's ?

It's speaking of part of the two witnesses, the two prophets. Not once are those two by themselves called the "two witnesses". Rev 11 says the 2W are two candlesticks AND two olive trees so that's four things which compose the 2W. Only the two olive trees/two prophets are said to be killed and lay in the street for 3.5 days not the r4est of who makes up the 2W.

 

[Douggg]

It's speaking of part of the two witnesses, the two prophets. Not once are those two by themselves called the "two witnesses". Rev 11 says the 2W are two candlesticks AND two olive trees so that's four things which compose the 2W. Only the two olive trees/two prophets are said to be killed and lay in the street for 3.5 days not the r4est of who makes up the 2W.

The two witnesses prophesy. The two witnesses are said to be two olive trees (metaphorically) and two candlesitcks (metaphorically) standing before the God of the earth.

My comments in brackets.

Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

4 These [two witnesses] are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

 

[ewq1938]

The two witnesses prophesy. The two witnesses are said to be two olive trees (metaphorically) and two candlesitcks (metaphorically) standing before the God of the earth.

My comments in brackets.

Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

4 These [two witnesses] are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

And? Most ppl think the two prophets are the entirety of the 2W but they are half of the 2W. The 2W are 4 things, two of one thing and two of another.

 

[Douggg]

And? Most ppl think the two prophets are the entirety of the 2W but they are half of the 2W. The 2W are 4 things, two of one thing and two of another.

No, the two witnesses are like two olive trees and two candlesticks - in that, candlesticks give light, fueled by olive oil from olives trees..

i.e. the two witnesses will be enlightening the world with prophesying as God directs them.

 

[dad]

You are still wrong. The two prophets (two olive trees) are two men, but the other part of the two witnesses are two churches as candlesticks represent churches.

That makes no sense. The other parts of the men? What other parts do men have? Perhaps you mean in the description of the men as olive trees and candlesticks. That reminds us of Zech

Zechariah 4:3, Zechariah 4:11, Zechariah 4:14

We do know they are two men. There is no mention of church at all here. The light and oil are from God.

 

[dad]

Mat 25 and 24 have half left behind. 1/2 of a group are left behind.
What group is it?

Perhaps you are talking about the end of the tribulation when Jesus returns?

Think about it.
What group ISN'T it?

That depends what "it" is. Verse?

Think about it.
Not all Christians are the bride.

Why not?

All are saved...but not all the bride.

Says who?

Can you quote the 2cescape verses Jesus cited?

Maybe you do that

Those 2 verses DIRECTLY point to the ones worthy. (The bride taken in the rapture vs those nominal shallow Christians. Those foolish believers are saved, but do not leave in the rapture)

No, they had no oil why would we think they were saved?

The rapture is NOT the gathering of Christians per se. It is the gathering of the bride.

Says who?

 

[Keraz]

Says who?

I love it when 2 'rapture to heaven' believers cannot agree with each other.
It just shows how that false idea is simply not in the Bible and those deceived by it, have to make up scenarios according to their private imaginings.

The Marriage feast of the Lamb must take place after the Bridegroom has come here and has disposed of all His enemies.
It is quite clear that the faithful Christians will be gathered when Jesus Returns, Matthew 24:31, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

 

[ewq1938]

That makes no sense. The other parts of the men? What other parts do men have? Perhaps you mean in the description of the men as olive trees and candlesticks. That reminds us of Zech

Zechariah 4:3, Zechariah 4:11, Zechariah 4:14

We do know they are two men. There is no mention of church at all here. The light and oil are from God.

The two witnesses are two men and two churches. If you don't understand, then you don't understand. It's not complicated.

 

[ewq1938]

No, the two witnesses are like two olive trees and two candlesticks

You have added "like". The manuscripts do not say that.

Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Revelation 11:4 These are the two olive trees, AND the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.


"the two olive trees" AND "the two candlesticks"


As you see, the "two witnesses" are two of one thing and two of another.




------------------one witness------------second witness------------
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.


We have 4 altogether that compose the "two witnesses".

 

[dad]

I love it when 2 'rapture to heaven' believers cannot agree with each other.
It just shows how that false idea is simply not in the Bible and those deceived by it, have to make up scenarios according to their private imaginings.

News to me, that the other poster was advocating a pre wrath rapture.

The Marriage feast of the Lamb must take place after the Bridegroom has come here and has disposed of all His enemies.

Verse?

It is quite clear that the faithful Christians will be gathered when Jesus Returns,

Yes, the saints of the tribulation left alive will be gathered at the end of the tribulation when Jesus comes back to earth. The believers who were raptured years before, of course, will be returning with Jesus.

 

[dad]

The two witnesses are two men and two churches. If you don't understand, then you don't understand. It's not complicated.

Never met a man who was a church actually. Never met a man who was a bank either.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Perhaps you are talking about the end of the tribulation when Jesus returns?

That depends what "it" is. Verse?

Why not?

Says who?

Maybe you do that

No, they had no oil why would we think they were saved?

Says who?

Incorrect, the foolish HAD OIL, as the word declares.
Reread the parable.
It would be IMPOSSIBLE for them to be unsaved.

"""Perhaps you are talking about the end of the tribulation when Jesus returns?"""
Mat 24.
Jesus said the setting for his return is BEFORE THE FLOOD.
One taken one left before the flood.
Watch and be ready before the flood.
All rapture verses are normal life, and commerce.
All rapture verses are pretrib
You are assuming what is not in the bible.

 

[rebuilder 454]

News to me, that the other poster was advocating a pre wrath rapture.

Verse?

Yes, the saints of the tribulation left alive will be gathered at the end of the tribulation when Jesus comes back to earth. The believers who were raptured years before, of course, will be returning with Jesus.

Nope
The Bible declares all take the mark not written in the book of life.
No believers make it through the gt as the Bible declares.
Those left behind pretrib as the Bible declares in mat 24 and 25 are martyred right away.

 

[rebuilder 454]

I love it when 2 'rapture to heaven' believers cannot agree with each other.
It just shows how that false idea is simply not in the Bible and those deceived by it, have to make up scenarios according to their private imaginings.

The Marriage feast of the Lamb must take place after the Bridegroom has come here and has disposed of all His enemies.
It is quite clear that the faithful Christians will be gathered when Jesus Returns, Matthew 24:31, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

Nope
As you have been shown before that verse in Matthew 24 Says angels gather not Jesus, and they're gathered from Heaven not earth. So read Revelation 14 verse 14 and we see Jesus sitting on a cloud with a sickle Gathering the Jewish people which you know nothing about .
There's no white horses as in the second coming, no gathering from heaven as in the second coming, so they are not the same.
So you're shown over and over again your deal is impossible


Mat 24
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other
(Can not possibly be the rapture)

But keep reading ....you WILL see the pretrib/ preflood gathering as JESUS declares and you deny
Mat 24

37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Pre-Flood pretrib gathering. Roughly half the church.
Maybe spend less time on rabbit trails , such as rejoicing at the differences of pretribbs., and get into the Bible

Show Jesus where He is wrong.

 

[Keraz]

News to me, that the other poster was advocating a pre wrath rapture.

I cannot see any difference between Pre-trib and pre-wrath.
They are both wrong.

Verse?

Hebrews 10:13: Jesus waits for His enemies to be disposed of.

The believers who were raptured years before, of course, will be returning with Jesus.

That any grownup person believes such fables, astounds me.

As you have been shown before that verse in Matthew 24 Says angels gather not Jesus, and they're gathered from Heaven not earth

gathered from the four winds, from the furthest bounds of heaven on every side. Matthew 24:31
This does not refer to Gods spiritual dwelling place. It is describing a physical, earthly location.

Any belief that has people in heaven, must show plain scripture of how, when and why they were taken there.

 

[dad]

Incorrect, the foolish HAD OIL, as the word declares.

Verse?

Reread the parable.
It would be IMPOSSIBLE for them to be unsaved.

If they were saved and this was the time of the rapture, they would miss out

"""Perhaps you are talking about the end of the tribulation when Jesus returns?"""
Mat 24.
Jesus said the setting for his return is BEFORE THE FLOOD.
One taken one left before the flood.
Watch and be ready before the flood.
All rapture verses are normal life, and commerce.
All rapture verses are pretrib
You are assuming what is not in the bible.

Try to be clear. The virgin parable seems to be at the Rapture. Not sure waht point you are trying to make with Mat 24

 

[dad]

Nope
The Bible declares all take the mark not written in the book of life.

What has that got to do with people taken and left at the rapture?? Of course the mark is something that shows people have rejected Jesus. That is supposed to relate to what here?

No believers make it through the gt as the Bible declares.

Chapter and verse!?

Those left behind pretrib as the Bible declares in mat 24 and 25 are martyred right away.

Mat 24 you thought was pre tribulation? Why would you say that?

 

[dad]

I cannot see any difference between Pre-trib and pre-wrath.
They are both wrong.

The time of wrath is well marked in the bible as is the last years. We don't really need you to see it.

Hebrews 10:13: Jesus waits for His enemies to be disposed of.

That is when He returns to earth after the tribulation

gathered from the four winds, from the furthest bounds of heaven on every side. Matthew 24:31
This does not refer to Gods spiritual dwelling place. It is describing a physical, earthly location.

That is not the Rapture. Jesus has come back to earth by then. GONG!

Any belief that has people in heaven, must show plain scripture of how, when and why they were taken there.

The bible does say we go to be with Him when we die. It also shows that at the rapture we go up in the air to be forever with Him. Jesus said we will be where He is and it is no secret where that is now.

 

[Keraz]

The bible does say we go to be with Him when we die.

No; the Bible never says we humans will live in heaven. It is only the souls of the martyrs that are kept under the Altar. Rev 6:9-11

It also shows that at the rapture we go up in the air to be forever with Him

The only verse which says about a rising up to Jesus, is 1 Thess 4:16-17. It will happen when Jesus has departed from heaven, on His way to Return and reign on earth for the next thousand years.

Jesus said we will be where He is and it is no secret where that is now.

Jesus is in heaven now, but John 14:1-4 never says when His people get to live with Him forever. That comes when the new heavens and earth appear. Revelation 21 to 22.

Your fond imaginings of being whisked away from any trials or tribulations, are ill-founded and unscriptural. For God to do that, means He can't protect His faithful people. But we know He can and He will, like the 3 men in the furnace, Isaiah 43:2, +

 

[ewq1938]

Never met a man who was a church actually. Never met a man who was a bank either.

No one said a man is a church. You made that up as your own strawman fallacy.