When are God's Elect Justified?

[CC7799]

The election were chosen in first earth age, before foundation of the earth.
Ephesians chapter 1
Peter chapter 1
Romans chapter 8

What happened in first earth age.???

Lucifer led a rebellion, one third of God's children followed him. He wanted Mercy seat. Lucifer was cherub, and pride was his downfall.

Jeremiah chapter 4

There was War in first earth age. Those who fought against Lucifer and one third are the election.
God judged the election on the spot
Romans chapter 8

The election are in every generation. They plant seeds for God.
Isaiah chapter 6.

Holy seed for every generation. The election.

The position for election can't be voluntary. They were judged, and chosen in first earth age.

Now the gentiles.

In Acts. God sent sheet to Peter. Different animals. Peter misunderstood what Jesus was teaching.

It isn't food. Its Gentiles.
Salvation came to the Gentiles.

Kimgs and Queens of the Ethnos, is Gentiles.

The Gentiles have their own kimgs and Queens.

Jesus is King of Israel and Judah.

The Ethnos, kings and queens are Equivalent to the election.

Revelation chapter 21. Kimgs and Queens will be in the eternity. No gender applied.

I moved on to other subjects.

 

[brightfame52]

Justification from everlasting! continued

So Christ coming to die for His People is the fruition of the everlasting covenant. His coming was an act of mercy, in that He would give himself, his soul an offering for sin, for the transgressions of God's People.

Isa 53:8-11

8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Now no one can read this and not perceive that Christ came into the world with the sin burden [imputed] of His People He was to die for. Was not that evident from His prayer right before his crucifixion in the garden. Was not the cup He was to drink, the punishment for the imputed Transgressions of the Elect of God Matt 26:38
-42

38Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.

39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

40 And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour?

41Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.

Lk 22:44

And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

I believe this vividly shows That sin had been laid to His charge already.

Now here is the big question that needs to be answered, When was this cup laid to His Charge ? We know it was before the actual cross, for the foregoing event in the garden supposes that. The cup of the imputed guilt of The sins of God's People was laid on Him from everlasting, as the Surety of the Everlasting Covenant. See Heb 7:22

He struck hands as it were with the Father to become its Surety Prov 6:1

My son, if thou be surety for thy friend, if thou hast stricken thy hand with a stranger,

Now if this be True, then it must also be True, that God, from everlasting, never laid to the charge the iniquities of them Christ had become a Surety for, because God could not now hold them both responsible, that is Christ and them He covenanted for.

This would be therefore their Justification from everlasting. How can those who God will not impute sin, not be Justified? Thats why Paul wrote in Rom 8:33

33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

We plainly see here that non imputed charges = God Justifying !

Here we have it, God not laying any charges on His elect, because they were laid upon their surety, constitutes their Justification before Him.

The only way this Truth can be denied, or not true, is Christ not having become a surety for the sins of Gods elect from everlasting.

 

[brightfame52]

What is Justification ?

What is Justification ? This word as used in scripture is never used in the physical sense as to produce an inward work in the sinner, but it is strictly forensic, and it is opposed not to our condition as sinful creatures and enmity towards God, but to a state of legal condemnation.

The greek word is dikaiōsis and means:

the act of God declaring men free from guilt and acceptable to him

2) abjuring to be righteous, justification

The word is used twice in the NT:

Rom 4:25 ; Rom 5:18

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

It is a term of Law and utilized in Judicial affairs conducted in a court. Those whom Christ died for stand Justified, not guilty before God, solely on the principal or ground work of Christ Blood Rom 5:9 ! And that while they are in a state of impurity and sinfulness. See Rom 5:10

 

[brightfame52]

Justification is a external act of God [upon the sinner] as a Judge, acting in a Court of Justice on guilty sinners, and not the internal work of the Spirit on the heart as in 2 Thess 2:13. God is acting upon the principal of Justice,according to His Law, He Justifies the Ungodly, and those be the Elect of God. This Justification is not based upon having been renewed by the Spirit as per Titus 3:5, nor because they have repented or believed, nor any such obedience of theirs, but solely on the Obedience and Blood of Christ. Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Rom 8:33-34

33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

 

[brightfame52]

Justification is not the act of man, nor is it contingent upon his knowledge of it, but it is solely the act of God the Judge, and is valid from the date that Judge decided the case. God decided on the case of His own Elect before the world began, and Chose them in Christ Eph 1:4;2 Tim 1:9, and in His Righteous verdict gave them Grace and Every Spiritual Blessing for Time and Eternity. Their iniquities which were foreknown by Him, were laid on Christ as He was constituted the Surety of the Everlasting Covenant of Grace Heb 13:20; Isa 53:6, and so God will not impute [lay to the charge] their sins unto them.

These are they that David said Ps 32:1-2

1Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.

2Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

See Also Rom 4:7-8 ; 2 Cor 5:19; Jn 1:47. God will not impute sin to His Elect because He has laid them already on Christ, and so they are Blessed Matt 25:34

34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

 

[brightfame52]

Is it just a decree to Justify ?

Some who call themselves believers and upholding the Faith of Christ, so understand Justification as a decree to Justify, meaning they believe God will Justify a sinner in the future, but until such time they are born again and brought to act in faith or believing on Christ, and then by this act of reliance, God will then Justifies them. THATS WORKS. So Justification is made like a reward or payment for ones act of believing. This teaching is not of God, but it opposes the work of Christ. For if God declares a sinner righteous because they believe in Christ, it is faith or believing as an act or obedience of ours, and not the blood and righteousness of Christ which is the cause of our Justification. Yet scripture is clear, that as a Judge, God Justifies us because Christ died for us, or because our sins where imputed to Him; and not because we believed it. For Faith is the evidence of Justification and not the cause of it !

 

[brightfame52]

Lambs book of Life !

In line with this truth of Justification from everlasting, I believe that the Justified had their names written in the Lambs book of life at the same date that God purposed that their sins would be sentenced upon Christ, and that He must die their death, and for them to live through Him. 1 Jn 4:9

In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

Notice that God sent His Son. When was it determined that He would be sent and that the elect would live [spiritually] through Him ? I believe it was determined in the Eternal Purpose in Christ Eph 3:11

11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Which had to do with the Everlasting Covenant Heb 13:20

20Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

I see the Eternal Purpose and the Everlasting Covenant as the Same !

I believe all whom had their names written in the Lambs book of Life from the foundation, were Justified from all things, as early !

Rev 21:27

And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life. 1

 

[brightfame52]

Slain from the foundation !

That God had made a Judicial decision not to punish the elect for their sins [Justification] but to impute them unto Christ, in order that He may bear the Justice of them, is seen from the words we read "slain from the foundation " Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

This is a revelation of the Mind and Purpose of God ! The word slain here is in the greek a perfect passive participle, and denotes that He had been slain once and for all in the Past with results or effects into the present. And by it being from the foundation denotes its none association with time, as it pertains to what is True in the Mind Of God. That is, Christ death in time did not have to yet occur for the reality of it and its benefits were real in God's Reckoning.

Its like what Paul states in Rom 4:17

17(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not[In time] as though they were[already happened].

So from the foundation, Christ had already died for the sins of those He was to die for in God's reckoning, and so they had to be Justified or reconciled to God by His Death as Early in God's Mind. Because scripture states Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

" we were reconciled to God by the death or slaying of His Son " So according to what we see of Rev 13:8, they were Reconciled to God from the foundation ! And to be Reconciled is to be Justified !

 

[brightfame52]

An Everlasting Salvation !

Isa 45:17

But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Israel here is merely All of God's Elect, Chosen In Christ [Israel] before the foundation !

When is an Elect Person, Chosen in Christ ? Before the foundation Eph 1:4

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

When are they saved ? Now this is going to shock most if not all of you, but an Elect one Chosen in Christ before the foundation, they have been saved from everlasting !

Everlasting has regard to no beginning and no ending Prov 8:23

23 I [Christ the wisdom of God] was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

So what does that mean if we were Chosen in Christ before the foundation ? How long have we existed ?

Lets look at Ps 103:17

17But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;

Notice that David writes under the inspiration of God, that the Mercy of the LORD is FROM EVERLASTING, upon certain individuals " Those who are fearing Him in Time" to Everlasting.

Now are the Elect saved by Mercy ? Yes Titus 3:5

5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

What can be more plainer ? When in God's Estimation were the Elect not reckoned as Vessels of Mercy ? Rom 9:22-23

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

The Elect in the Eternal Purpose of God, have always been Saved by His Mercy in Christ, from Everlasting to Everlasting !

 

[Scott Downey]

Romans 5 exposes a truth v6 - v9
Christ died for the ungodly. We were the ungodly, Christ died for US who were ungodly sinners.
God demonstrates His own love toward US, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for US.

When we were His enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son, and so then are saved from His wrath which the unbelieving will experience, whom God has not justified by faith and by His blood.

Christ came, and ministered, and died so that the elect children of God, would have eternal life and not perish in hell.
We can know we are elect because we believe, and we have an inner witness of the Spirit inside of us. That is what the NC is all about, He will be in you.

John 14
16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [a]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

Faith Triumphs in Trouble​

1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, [a]we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces [b]perseverance; 4 and perseverance, [c]character; and character, hope. 5 Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

Christ in Our Place​

6 For when we were still without strength, [d]in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.

10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

Colossians 1, only the elect will remain with Christ, as God says in Hebrews 12 this,

26 whose voice then shook the earth; but now He has promised, saying, “Yet once more I [a]shake not only the earth, but also heaven.” 27 Now this, “Yet once more,” indicates the removal of those things that are being shaken, as of things that are made, that the things which cannot be shaken may remain.

28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace, by which we [b]may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear.

Reconciled in Christ​

19 For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, 20 and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.

21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight—

23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.

 

[brightfame52]

Romans 5 exposes a truth v6 - v9
Christ died for the ungodly. We were the ungodly, Christ died for US who were ungodly sinners.
God demonstrates His own love toward US, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for US.

When we were His enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son, and so then are saved from His wrath which the unbelieving will experience, whom God has not justified by faith and by His blood.

Christ came, and ministered, and died so that the elect children of God, would have eternal life and not perish in hell.
We can know we are elect because we believe, and we have an inner witness of the Spirit inside of us. That is what the NC is all about, He will be in you.

John 14
16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [a]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

Faith Triumphs in Trouble​

1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, [a]we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces [b]perseverance; 4 and perseverance, [c]character; and character, hope. 5 Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

Christ in Our Place​

6 For when we were still without strength, [d]in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.

10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

Colossians 1, only the elect will remain with Christ, as God says in Hebrews 12 this,

26 whose voice then shook the earth; but now He has promised, saying, “Yet once more I [a]shake not only the earth, but also heaven.” 27 Now this, “Yet once more,” indicates the removal of those things that are being shaken, as of things that are made, that the things which cannot be shaken may remain.

28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace, by which we [b]may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear.

Reconciled in Christ​

19 For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, 20 and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.

21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight—

23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.

So you disagree with eternal justification as well as Justification at the Cross. That makes the Cross of Christ of no effect until the sinner does something. Thats works

 

[Scott Downey]

So you disagree with eternal justification as well as Justification at the Cross. That makes the Cross of Christ of no effect until the sinner does something. Thats works

The scriptures say what they say, I post scripture, people can read for themselves.
I don't see a connection to salvation as a work of man, salvation is a work of God.

By the way, the works were completed-finished from the foundation of the world.

3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said:

“So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest,’ ”
although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; 5 and again in this place: “They shall not enter My rest.”

 

[Scott Downey]

Good works God has ordained for us to do, this cannot be denied. We were created in Christ Jesus for good works.
How can any deny this as it is the word of God.
But good works are not the basis for our justification by God, good works we still will do as this is the will of God.

Ephesians 2: 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

 

[Scott Downey]

More on good works, hey only good works count with God, and you bet He keeps track of them.

Jesus Testifies to the Churches​

“And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.

Revelation 14:13
Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.’ ” “Yes,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them.”

Titus 2:14
who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.

Titus 3:14
And let our people also learn to maintain good works, to meet urgent needs, that they may not be unfruitful.

Matthew 5:16
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.

Romans 2:10
but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

1 Timothy 2:10
but, which is proper for women professing godliness, with good works.

1 Timothy 5:10
well reported for good works: if she has brought up children, if she has lodged strangers, if she has washed the saints’ feet, if she has relieved the afflicted, if she has diligently followed every good work.

1 Timothy 5:25
Likewise, the good works of some are clearly evident, and those that are otherwise cannot be hidden.

1 Timothy 6:18
Let them do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to give, willing to share,

Titus 1:16
They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work.

Titus 2:7
in all things showing yourself to be a pattern of good works; in doctrine showing integrity, reverence, incorruptibility,

Titus 3:8
This is a faithful saying, and these things I want you to affirm constantly, that those who have believed in God should be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable to men.

 

[Scott Downey]

34 Brood[a] of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

35 A good man out of the good treasure [b]of his heart brings forth good things, and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things.

36 But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment.

Now go and read Matthew 25:14-46 and the parable of the talents.

Who was the good and profitable servant of the Lord?
What did he do to please God?
What happened to the other guy?

 

[brightfame52]

The scriptures say what they say, I post scripture, people can read for themselves.
I don't see a connection to salvation as a work of man, salvation is a work of God.

By the way, the works were completed-finished from the foundation of the world.

3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said:

“So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest,’ ”
although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; 5 and again in this place: “They shall not enter My rest.”

Again So you disagree with eternal justification as well as Justification at the Cross. That makes the Cross of Christ of no effect until the sinner does something. Thats works

 

[Scott Downey]

Again So you disagree with eternal justification as well as Justification at the Cross. That makes the Cross of Christ of no effect until the sinner does something. Thats works

You do realize that your position is not entirely scriptural. Whereas I am posting scriptures you prefer to dismiss as irrelevant. While you have some good ideas, you are unbalanced in the word. You don't agree with the doctrines of Christ or Paul, you just agree with some of them, the ones you like.

For example, with your justification doctrine, you cannot agree with scripture here Colossians 1.

21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.

 

[Super Kal]

My belief is that we are justified the moment we have faith, because the Apostle Paul says in Romans 5:1

Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ

 

[brightfame52]

You do realize that your position is not entirely scriptural. Whereas I am posting scriptures you prefer to dismiss as irrelevant. While you have some good ideas, you are unbalanced in the word. You don't agree with the doctrines of Christ or Paul, you just agree with some of them, the ones you like.

For example, with your justification doctrine, you cannot agree with scripture here Colossians 1.

21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.

Again So you disagree with eternal justification as well as Justification at the Cross. That makes the Cross of Christ of no effect until the sinner does something. Thats works

 

[brightfame52]

My belief is that we are justified the moment we have faith, because the Apostle Paul says in Romans 5:1

Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ

Sounds like more works