Daniel's Final "one week" of Daniel 9:27 Made Simple

[Eternally Grateful]

I agree with you regarding your definition of an unclean thing - and abomination... I responded to your comment in #247... certainly God looked at Jesus on the cross and unclean....

Jesus is not an Idol or unclean thing. and he was not standing in the Holy Place

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Sorry, it does speak to the cross. Did Jesus tell them they would see the AOD standing..... meaning they would be alive to see this... it is not an end time event and doesn't tie into to Daniel 9:27? If not, tell me why not just that you do not accept it...

Actually. No he did not. He said let the reader understand, He said that for a reason.

These words of scripture were not even written until long after his death. so jesus must have forgotten that no one would read these words. to take his warning

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The Antichrist going into the temple sanctuary building, into the most holy chamber, sitting claiming to have achieved God-hood will be the transgression of desolation, not the abomination of desolation.

Daniel 8:12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

The transgression of desolation will be an act of transgression against the Mt. Sinai covenant to worship the One True God.

Differently, the abomination of desolation will be a statue image set up on the temple mount.

-------------------------------------------

The transgression of desolation act will get the Antichrist killed, assassinated.

Then, after his soul in hell, for a couple days, God returns his soul back to his body - at which time he become the beast.

Come back to life, the false prophet has the statue image made of him (the beast) and has it set up on the temple mount out in the open - the abomination of desolation - and the Jews in Judea seeing it, will begin fleeing to the mountains.

Daniel 8 is about the ram and the goat (media-persia and greece)

dan 8: 12 was fulfilled by Antiochus epiphanies who was the greecian king who slaughtered a pig in the holy place.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Anyone can get a rigid, literal interpretation of words from Strongs etc., but the understanding of what God teaches, is going to come from His Holy Spirit. (all of 1 Cor. 2), and not by the wisdom of men!!

Agree. But it helps if you actually study also. Some things you can know are in error. But you have to open your mind

Now, this thread is ripping along hot and heavy, but apparently to no avail, even though everyone can support their stand with scripture. However there is one facet about prophetic scripture that none here are open minded about, and that is typology.
Once a prophecy has been fulfilled, it cannot be fulfilled again. But,... it can be used in typology.

If it is a prophecy it still must be fulfilled literally. Not as a type

Jesus did that a number of times. One example is His useage of Jonah and the whale. Though some won't understand right away, that event was definitely only about Jonah. However, Jesus used it in typology to point to Himself, in comparison of Jonah being 3 days in the belly of the whale, and Jesus Himself being 3 days in the heart of the earth. Please see John 2:18-21.

But Jonah was not a prophecy, and yes, Jesus used it to represent him.. But you can not use this here

The same applies to "THE abomination that maketh desolate" in Daniel, of which was fulfilled by king Antiochus Epiphanes lV, of the Seleucid kingdom, during the Grecian Empire.
Jesus used that event also, to point to Himself.

Jesus said, When you see the Abomination of desolation. spoken of by Daniel. STANDING in the Holy Place (let the reader understand)

so he was pointing or talking to himself?

DO WHAT??

 

[Eternally Grateful]

This kind of belief is very prevalent.
Like Amill and the fable of a rapture to heaven, now added to by the unscriptural idea of the Cross being the abomination of desolation. Those theories are simply at variance with plainly stated scripture. Why even consider such nonsense?

As CTK says: one has to be wrong, when 2 people have differing beliefs. But with the proliferation of ideas on what could happen in the end times, it seems that everybody has a little right, like the Way to Salvation, and a lot wrong, about what the Lord has planned for the future of His people.
This state of affairs is unfortunate but understandable, as God could not have all and sundry knowing it all.
Only after the Day of the Lords fiery wrath, the day no one knows, will people then know Gods Plans. Isaiah 35:4-5, Isaiah 32:3-4, +

I can see this

When we think about it, The OT prophet spoke of a virgin birth. Imagine in all the OT version of christian chat rooms what people thought this would mean.

It was not until after the event, that we could really know for sure..

 

[Douggg]

dan 8: 12 was fulfilled by Antiochus epiphanies who was the greecian king who slaughtered a pig in the holy place

Antiochus IV was not the little horn person. The vision about the little horn person and the 2300 days are time of the end. Antiochus IV was not time of the end.

Daniel 8:17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Antiochus IV was not the little horn person. The vision about the little horn person and the 2300 days are time of the end. Antiochus IV was not time of the end.

Daniel 8:17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.

8 In[a] the third year of the reign of King Belshazzar a vision appeared to me—to me, Daniel—after the one that appeared to me the first time. 2 I saw in the vision, and it so happened while I was looking, that I was in Shushan,[b] the [c]citadel, which is in the province of Elam; and I saw in the vision that I was by the River Ulai. 3 Then I lifted my eyes and saw, and there, standing beside the river, was a ram which had two horns, and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher one came up last. 4 I saw the ram pushing westward, northward, and southward, so that no animal could [d]withstand him; nor was there any that could deliver from his hand, but he did according to his will and became great.


This chapter is about the 2 center gentile kingdoms

1. the verses above speak the Ram had two horns, one higher, this is media-persia
2. The one horn was higher, as history shows. The persian king was more powerful than the king of the medes.
3. Also, the persian king came later than the medes.
4. This also coincides with the bear, which was raised up on one side (Chapter 7)
5. The ram pushed west, north and south, and no one was able to withstand it, he did what he wanted,even conquering babylon

8 Therefore the male goat grew very great; but when he became strong, the large horn was broken, and in place of it four notable ones came up toward the four winds of heaven. 9 And out of one of them came a little horn which grew exceedingly great toward the south, toward the east, and toward the Glorious Land. 10 And it grew up to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and some of the stars to the ground, and trampled them. 11 He even exalted himself as high as the Prince of the host; and by him the daily sacrifices were taken away, and the place of [f]His sanctuary was cast down. 12 Because of transgression, an army was given over to the horn to oppose the daily sacrifices; and he cast truth down to the ground. He did all this and prospered.

1. Male goat grew very great, but at the height of its power the large horn was broken and 5 took its place.
2. Alexadrer the great quickly ran over the known world and conquered it with ease. However in the hight of his power he died
3. His kingdom was split into 4 kingdoms
4. Out of these 4 kingdoms. One in particular exerted power southward and eastward and toward the Glorious land (Israel)
5. He became a great persecutor of the people of God, And he set himself up as king over them,
6. He prohibited Israel from worshiping their God and demanding they worship him, even desecrating the temple by sacrificing a pig in the temple
7. History shows alexandar the great with great speed spread anf attacked the ram, and the ram could not withstand him,
8. It then showed his kingdom was given to 4 generals. one of which was Antiochus Epiphanies. who spread south and gained control over Israel.
9. This "little horn" caused sacrifice and burnt offering to cease by placing an abomination of desolation in the holy place and sacrificing it
10. The result of this was what we call the maccabean revolt. in which Israel rebelled.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Daniel 8 is about the ram and the goat (media-persia and greece)

dan 8: 12 was fulfilled by Antiochus epiphanies who was the greecian king who slaughtered a pig in the holy place.

I disagree. Daniel 8 wasnt about Antiochus or pig in the holy place in your literal narrative. The vision is a spiritual picture between congregation Israel and the kingdom of Satan.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I disagree. Daniel 8 wasnt about Antiochus or pig in the holy place in your literal narrative. The vision is a spiritual picture between congregation Israel and the kingdom of Satan.

please See post 287, I explained how it all worked out. I can continue to go through the rest of Chapter 8 if needed. and it will just further to boost that it was the historic figure or little horn of the greecian empire who did this

 

[Douggg]

9 And out of one of them came a little horn which grew exceedingly great toward the south, toward the east, and toward the Glorious Land. 10 And it grew up to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and some of the stars to the ground, and trampled them. 11 He even exalted himself as high as the Prince of the host; and by him the daily sacrifices were taken away, and the place of [f]His sanctuary was cast down. 12 Because of transgression, an army was given over to the horn to oppose the daily sacrifices; and he cast truth down to the ground. He did all this and prospered.

Daniel 8:9 is referring to the location of Greece, and from there the little horn person of the time of the end will head south east toward Israel.

Here is what is going to happen.

The little horn person in the end times, who is over ten kings of the fourth kingdom, the Roman Empire (of the end times), in Daniel 7:23-25, will, right before Gog/Magog happens, will stage his EU army in Greece to act as a deterrent.

It doesn't work and the Gog/Magog group goes ahead with the invasion and God supernatural destroys Gog's army.

In the aftermath, the little horn person with his strong EU army will head south east toward Israel. And on the premise of being a peace keeper for the region. Daniel 8:25, he destroys many by peace.

The little horn heading south and east toward Israel, is the prince that shall come in Daniel 9:26-27.

The Jews will think that the little horn person/prince that shall come is their long awaited messiah. And he will be anointed the King of Israel, by the false prophet of Revelation 13, who the Jews will think initially is the prophet Elijah (perhaps in spirit).

Being anointed the King of Israel, thought-to-be messiah is what makes the person the Antichrist.

Anitochus IV was not time of the end, not the little horn.

And, btw, Antiochus IV was not one of the four of Alexander's generals who split up Alexander's Greek Empire. Alexander died in 323 BC. Antiochus IV lived 215-164 BC. Antiochus IV was a later descendant of Seleucus 1 Nicator, who was one of the four generals that got part of Alexander's empire. Seleucus 1 Nicator founded the Seleucid empire.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Daniel 8:9 is referring to the location of Greece, and from there the little horn person of the time of the end will head south east toward Israel.

Here is what is going to happen.

It already happened.

Again, Dan 8 is about the middle 2 gentile beasts. Not the final one (rome) who will be in power in the last days..

You know what. I think we need to just agree to disagree.. Its not worth the fuss and division it cost when we have large disagreements..

 

[Douggg]

Again, Dan 8 is about the middle 2 gentile beasts. Not the final one (rome) who will be in power in the last days..

Daniel 8 starts off with a vision that Daniel had.

Daniel 8:3 is the ram, the persian empire.

Daniel 8:5 is the goat, the greek empire, with the notable horn as being Alexander the Great.

Daniel 8:8 is the great horn was broken (Alexander the Great died) and his Greek Empire split up into four lesser empires.

Daniel 8:9 out of one of the four lesser empires (the location of the nation of Greece) the time of the end little horn, will head south and east toward Israel.

-----------------------------------------------------

the little horn is time of the end, because Gabriel said so in Daniel 8:17.

16 And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision.

17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.

Now please note, in Daniel 8:17, Gabriel was not talking about the overall vision that Daniel had in Daniel 8. But the specific vision regarding the little horn in Daniel 8:11-13 concerning the daily sacrifice and the transgression of desolation.

11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.

12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Daniel 8 starts off with a vision that Daniel had.

Daniel 8:3 is the ram, the persian empire.

Daniel 8:5 is the goat, the greek empire, with the notable horn as being Alexander the Great.

Daniel 8:8 is the great horn was broken (Alexander the Great died) and his Greek Empire split up into four lesser empires.

Daniel 8:9 out of one of the four lesser empires (the location of the nation of Greece) the time of the end little horn, will head south and east toward Israel.

-----------------------------------------------------

the little horn is time of the end, because Gabriel said so in Daniel 8:17.

16 And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision.

17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.

Now please note, in Daniel 8:17, Gabriel was not talking about the overall vision that Daniel had in Daniel 8. But the specific vision regarding the little horn in Daniel 8:11-13 concerning the daily sacrifice and the transgression of desolation.

11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.

12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

I guess you did not see my request.

as for your comments.

Daniel 8: 9 is the splitting up of Alexanders kingdom between 4 of his generals.

One of them who happened to take over Israel.

There is nothing in this passage about the end of times, everything in this passage has already been fulfilled.

Rome defeats the goat. It is in power at the time of Christ. and will come to power again in the end of days.. when the future little horn will take over.

Antiochus epiphanies is a type of this future leader in that he also desecrated the temple. and cause sacrifice and burnt offering to cease. and he was also called a little horn

 

[Douggg]

Daniel 8: 9 is the splitting up of Alexanders kingdom between 4 of his generals.

No, it is Daniel 8:8 that is about the splitting up of Alexanders kingdom between 4 of his generals. The four generals divided up Alexander's Greek empire into four territories of four lesser empires.

Daniel 8:8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.

The little horn person in Daniel 8:9 in the end times will wax great out of one of the four territories, the one which is north and west of Israel. i.e. Greece, the eastern most nation of the EU.

---------------------------------------------

Which part of Daniel 8, do you think is time of the end ?

Daniel 8:17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.

 

[TribulationSigns]

please See post 287, I explained how it all worked out. I can continue to go through the rest of Chapter 8 if needed. and it will just further to boost that it was the historic figure or little horn of the greecian empire who did this

I already knew that. I have read many many many Preterist's positions, even Premillennialists', on their same old literal narrative on Daniel 8, yet I do not believe this is what God talked about. Since this thread is about Daniel 9:27 and it already has been plagued with different subjects, so I MAY start a new thread that focuses on Daniel 8 later, Lord willing.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No, it is Daniel 8:8 that is about the splitting up of Alexanders kingdom between 4 of his generals. The four generals divided up Alexander's Greek empire into four territories of four lesser empires.

Daniel 8:8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.

The little horn person in Daniel 8:9 in the end times will wax great out of one of the four territories, the one which is north and west of Israel. i.e. Greece, the eastern most nation of the EU.

---------------------------------------------

Which part of Daniel 8, do you think is time of the end ?

Daniel 8:17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.

No,

Daniel 9/9 focuses on Jerusalem. and who is in charge of jerusalem. All of the 4 beasts of Daniel concern their rule over jersualem.

Like I said. Everything in this passage has been proven to be historical events that actually took place.

and I also asked if we could agree to disagree.. because it is not going to get us anywhere. Like I told another member, I could continue on in chapter 8 and show how it is all past tense to us today

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I already knew that. I have read many many many Preterist's positions, even Premillennialists', on their same old literal narrative on Daniel 8, yet I do not believe this is what God talked about. Since this thread is about Daniel 9:27 and it already has been plagued with different subjects, so I MAY start a new thread that focuses on Daniel 8 later, Lord willing.

well I am not a preterist

I just have studied many years the book of daniel and revelation and other prophecies. Prophecy is actually my favorite subect (wuth the exception of history, and of course the gospel)

and I agree. we have gotten off topic. we should get back on. thank you for reminding us

 

[Douggg]

No,

Daniel 9/9 focuses on Jerusalem. and who is in charge of jerusalem. All of the 4 beasts of Daniel concern their rule over jersualem.

Like I said. Everything in this passage has been proven to be historical events that actually took place.

and I also asked if we could agree to disagree.. because it is not going to get us anywhere. Like I told another member, I could continue on in chapter 8 and show how it is all past tense to us today

Daniel 9/9 ? Do you mean Daniel 8:9 ?

If you don't want to discuss Daniel 8 with me, then okay. But I will comment on your posts when you make a reference to Daniel 8, that I think is incorrect.

Not all of Daniel 8 is past tense to us today. The parts about the little horn are time of the end and are still unfulfilled. The little horn person will be broke when he attempts to stand up against the Prince of princes - Jesus, in Daniel 8:25.

Daniel 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

 

[Douggg]

I already knew that. I have read many many many Preterist's positions, even Premillennialists', on their same old literal narrative on Daniel 8, yet I do not believe this is what God talked about. Since this thread is about Daniel 9:27 and it already has been plagued with different subjects, so I MAY start a new thread that focuses on Daniel 8 later, Lord willing.

Then start a new thread on Daniel 8, and be sure to identify which parts of Daniel 8 are time of the end.

 

[Douggg]

Daniel 8:11-13 is not a separate vision!

Yes it is. It is a specific vision within the overall vision that Daniel had. The text says...

Daniel 8:13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

It is all about the time of the end little horn's activities.