Daniel's Final "one week" of Daniel 9:27 Made Simple

[Eternally Grateful]

The daily sacrifice and burnt offering take place, not inside the sanctuary building, but in courtyard where the brazen altar are located.

Inside the temple sanctuary building are two chambers. The Holy chamber, and the Holy of Holies chamber, separated by a heavy veil, curtain.

No one actually goes inside the Holy of Holies chamber within the temple sanctuary building, except for the high priest, and then only one time a year.

we are talking the holy place. outside the building is not the holy place.

the literal holy place is the pkace right outside the most holy place. which is the place where the high priest makes atoneing sacrifice once a year.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The prince who shall come does not actually set up the abomination of desolation statue image himself.

I am sorry, But I do not see this in the text. Again, I try not to read to much into it

again, we have an example. and I believe for a reason. The little horn who did this very act in Dan 11.. so the jews would understand and know what to look for..

He is a root cause though of it happening.

I disagree.. He is the little horn who will do what his predecessor does.. Only this time it will nto be a pig

 

[covenantee]

Okay, and thanks for your thoughts.

Good day CTK.

Undoubtedly you can see that my question in post 236 is going unanswered.

Because the correct answer detonates any and all dispensational delusions regarding Daniel 9:24.

As you've recognized.

 

[Douggg]

we are talking the holy place. outside the building is not the holy place.

In Daniel 11:45, when the beast king makes his final stand....

Daniel 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

The temple complex surrounded by an outer and inner wall on the temple mount had an inner and outer court and a sanctuary building. Together they are called the temple.

In Matthew 21:12-14 in the outer court, Jesus cast out the money changers, and them doing a buisness of selling doves. He also healed the blind and lame in the outer court. Because it was considered a holy place.

12 And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,

13 And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.

14 And the blind and the lame came to him in the temple; and he healed them.

 

[CTK]

Good day CTK.

Undoubtedly you can see that my question in post 236 is going unanswered.

Because the correct answer detonates any and all dispensational delusions regarding Daniel 9:24.

As you've recognized.

Thank you and I hope to see your responses within this or other topics.. Best wishes always.

 

[Earburner]

THATS not an abomination
An abomination is an idel. a monster. an unclean thing, something that makes someone or something ceremoniously unclean.

Not according to Prov. 6:16-17.

Jesus said we will SEE it STANDING in the holy place.

And those who were present, when Jesus was "set up" on His cross, most surely did see the 7th abomination committed against God: "hands that shed innocent blood".

You can not see what you are describing standing in any holy place..

Psalm 24 [is about Jesus]
[1] The earth is the LORD's, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein.
[2] For he hath founded it upon the seas, and established it upon the floods.
[3] Who shall ascend into the hill of the LORD? or who shall stand in HIS holy place?
[4] He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully.
[5] He shall receive the blessing from the LORD, and righteousness from the God of his salvation.

> 1 Cor. 2
[13] Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Please see my post #221.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Daniel 9
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Acts 2
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.


Did the 3,000 of Daniel's people who received Christ in Acts 2 experience any of Daniel 9:24?

It boggles my mind that anyone can think Daniel 9:24 can be fulfilled apart from Christ's death and resurrection. How else can reconciliation be made for iniquity apart from His shed blood? There is no other way. Any doctrine which does not have His death within the 70th week is clearly a false doctrine since His death is a requirement for the things listed in Daniel 9:24 to be fulfilled and those things had to be fulfilled within the 70 weeks.

 

[CTK]

THATS not an abomination

An abomination is an idel. a monster. an unclean thing, something that makes someone or something ceremoniously unclean.

Jesus said we will SEE it STANDING in the holy place.

You can not see what you are describing standing in any holy place..

I might ask that you consider the definition or meaning of the word "abomination" that was used by Jesus - standing in the holy place or as in Mark, standing where it not ought to be, does refer to Jesus. Jesus was indeed looking forward to the cross where He would take on the sin of the world. He was baptized in the Jordan on the first day of His ministry, and went into the desert for 40 days to be tempted by the devil in 3 different ways. Jesus had and would never sin and, of course, would not disobey His Father and walk out of the desert "cleansed and made pure." Now, He would, from a Levitical point of view, be able to serve as our Passover Lamb, devoid of an inperfections, He sould serve as our High Priest who must also be pure and clean before going into the Sanctuary, He will also be our Temple, which also, according to the Levitical laws, must be declared clean and pure before the Passover feast. God would indeed be "clean and pure and devoid of any sin." But, when He took on the sin of the world, He was no longer clean. He was detestable in the eyes of God. He was, according to Leviticus 11:11, and unclean thing, and as Jesus Himself said to His disciples, you must drink my blood and eat my flesh.... Of course, this was symbolic, but Leviticus 11 does focus on the things one consumes - whether they are clean or unclean food.. Jesus, when He took on the sin of the world was not clean.

And, as I mentioned earlier, in Matthew, Jesus tells His disciples that "when you see the AOD standing in the holy place....spoken by the prophet Daniel....let the reader understand.... Here, Jesus is telling them He is their Messiah, their King, their Passover Lamb, He is the One that has been prophecised in the Scriptures...thus, that is exactly where a king should be found- standing in the holy place. But He also goes farther and in a way, triangulates His statement. In Mark, He is discusses as a suffering servant who "should not be found standing within the holy place." He is revealing another view of His coming and His mission and how we are to understand Him... He will be our king in Matthew AND our suffering servant in Mark... both of which will be found to be unclean on the cross. This way, these two statements can only be pointing to the Messiah and no one else.

So the term "abomination" is indeed appropriate to refer to the Messiah on the cross... and anything unclean is thrown out of the city... where the Messiah would be crucified. The Jews, those who committed this "most abominable" act will indeed be punished by God who will "make desolate" His presence from His people for the time of the Gentiles. But at the completion of this period, He will remove the blindness from their eyes and once again, be their God.

 

[Keraz]

So the term "abomination" is indeed appropriate to refer to the Messiah on the cross..

Thinking that Daniel 9:27, Daniel 11:31, and Matthew 24:15 were fulfilled by the Crucifixion of Jesus, is gross error and a serious misinterpretation of plainly stated scriptures.

It seems to me that people here are making desperate attempts to avoid the possibility that they will experience the trials of the end times, as is so comprehensively Prophesied throughout the Bible.
Some people are going to see it all. Many indications show how close we are now, to the Day the Lord will take action in His fiery wrath.

Knowing what will happen, is the best way to be prepared and be ready to stand firm in our faith thru it all.

 

[CTK]

Thinking that Daniel 9:27, Daniel 11:31, and Matthew 24:15 were fulfilled by the Crucifixion of Jesus, is gross error and a serious misinterpretation of plainly stated scriptures.

It seems to me that people here are making desperate attempts to avoid the possibility that they will experience the trials of the end times, as is so comprehensively Prophesied throughout the Bible.
Some people are going to see it all. Many indications show how close we are now, to the Day the Lord will take action in His fiery wrath.

Knowing what will happen, is the best way to be prepared and be ready to stand firm in our faith thru it all.

Well, everyone has the right to interpret and believe what they want to... There are no shortage of interpretations within "today's accepted interpretations." When I began to study Daniel, I thought it would be relatively easily. All the heavy lifting was accomplished by the truly brilliant scholars, academics and theologians - at least during the past 300 years or so. It was so easy reading how convinced they were of their interpretations, yet, there was absolutlly no consensus among any of this group. Even if one where to try and provide a clean separation within these talented folks, that being a "futurist" or a "preterist," there still was not much they agreed on within their own camp.

This was more than surprising to me since I had never read Daniel before and I thought I would quickly learn what these folks knew about Daniel. And this is when I realized that if these brilliant folks are that far apart in their interpretations (of the major prophecies in Daniel), then at least one of them is wrong. It was my intention to use their very different views and walk down the middle of this road taking advantage of each camp's interpretations and coming to my own conclusion on each verse. And the outcome was unbelievable. In so many cases both camps were and are completely wrong (in my opinion). One camp's approach is to match the actors and events in our history books to the verses (actors and events) in Daniel. And there are so many times that this is impossible because Daniel is not a history book and should not be confirmed or compared to them. On the other side, it was noted just how many important verses in Daniel were just too difficult to interpret, so they threw so many in the far future, some 2000 years later arguing they have definitely not taken place - can't be found in our history books so they are yet to happen.

It wasn't until I threw away their approach - that being a secular one and one that might be labeld as an "historical" approach." God is not writing and simply recounting history and we just have to follow those kings, kingdoms and conflicts in our history books. Most of Daniel is prophetic and is messianic and is place WITHIN these 4 kingdoms. The kingdoms and their kings and their conflicts are NOT the story. The story is about God's plan of salvation / restoration for the Jews and mankind and the coming of His Messiah on the first day of the 70th week of the prophecy. If you look for the Messiah in these verses, you will find Him.

Now, if you would like to discuss, initially, 9:27 and how it speaks to the Messiah and not some mythical, antichrist boogeyman created by the little horn (papacy) in the 16th century, we can do that ... I don't know what your interpretations ... you might want to discuss them...

 

[covenantee]

I might ask that you consider the definition or meaning of the word "abomination" that was used by Jesus - standing in the holy place or as in Mark, standing where it not ought to be, does refer to Jesus. Jesus was indeed looking forward to the cross where He would take on the sin of the world. He was baptized in the Jordan on the first day of His ministry, and went into the desert for 40 days to be tempted by the devil in 3 different ways. Jesus had and would never sin and, of course, would not disobey His Father and walk out of the desert "cleansed and made pure." Now, He would, from a Levitical point of view, be able to serve as our Passover Lamb, devoid of an inperfections, He sould serve as our High Priest who must also be pure and clean before going into the Sanctuary, He will also be our Temple, which also, according to the Levitical laws, must be declared clean and pure before the Passover feast. God would indeed be "clean and pure and devoid of any sin." But, when He took on the sin of the world, He was no longer clean. He was detestable in the eyes of God. He was, according to Leviticus 11:11, and unclean thing, and as Jesus Himself said to His disciples, you must drink my blood and eat my flesh.... Of course, this was symbolic, but Leviticus 11 does focus on the things one consumes - whether they are clean or unclean food.. Jesus, when He took on the sin of the world was not clean.

And, as I mentioned earlier, in Matthew, Jesus tells His disciples that "when you see the AOD standing in the holy place....spoken by the prophet Daniel....let the reader understand.... Here, Jesus is telling them He is their Messiah, their King, their Passover Lamb, He is the One that has been prophecised in the Scriptures...thus, that is exactly where a king should be found- standing in the holy place. But He also goes farther and in a way, triangulates His statement. In Mark, He is discusses as a suffering servant who "should not be found standing within the holy place." He is revealing another view of His coming and His mission and how we are to understand Him... He will be our king in Matthew AND our suffering servant in Mark... both of which will be found to be unclean on the cross. This way, these two statements can only be pointing to the Messiah and no one else.

So the term "abomination" is indeed appropriate to refer to the Messiah on the cross... and anything unclean is thrown out of the city... where the Messiah would be crucified. The Jews, those who committed this "most abominable" act will indeed be punished by God who will "make desolate" His presence from His people for the time of the Gentiles. But at the completion of this period, He will remove the blindness from their eyes and once again, be their God.

The parallel synoptic counterpart to Matthew 24:14 is Luke 21:20. It identifies the abomination of desolation as the armies which desolated Jerusalem. The Holy Spirit inspired its inclusion in order to resolve any doubt as to the AOD's identity.

What would be your reason for not accepting Luke 21:20?

 

[CTK]

The parallel synoptic counterpart to Matthew 24:14 is Luke 21:20. It identifies the abomination of desolation as the armies which desolated Jerusalem. The Holy Spirit inspired its inclusion in order to resolve any doubt as to the AOD's identity.

What would be your reason for not accepting Luke 21:20?

If I understand you question, I am accepting Luke's recordings of this same event... Luke, unlike Matthew who writing to reveal to the Jews, that Jesus is and was their Messiah, their King. While in Mark, he is showing another view of Jesus to the Gentile nation as the suffering servant. But in Luke, who is writing to us as Jesus the man, is not referring to Daniel the prophet or standing or not standing in the holy place.


In the Gospel of Luke, Jesus's life is presented in a chronological order, highlighting His identity as the Son of Man and His mission to bring redemption to humanity. Luke carefully traces Jesus's genealogy back to Adam, emphasizing His deep connection with all people and His role as the ultimate redeemer. Throughout Luke's narrative, Jesus's dual nature as both fully human and divine is emphasized. While He embodies complete humanity, Luke also portrays Him as the divine Messiah through His teachings, miracles, and fulfillment of Old Testament prophecies.

In Luke 21:20, Jesus prophesies the impending destruction of Jerusalem, a consequence of His rejection and crucifixion. This event signifies not only physical devastation but also a spiritual estrangement between God and His people. Luke’s portrayal of Jesus as the Son of Man and the destruction of Jerusalem underscores the central theme of Jesus’s identity and mission. Furthermore, Luke’s focus on Jerusalem suggests that the impact of Jesus’s crucifixion extends beyond the physical Temple to encompass the entire city and its inhabitants. While the crucifixion of an ordinary man would not result in spiritual or a physical desolation, the crucifixion of Jesus, who is both fully human and fully divine, carries profound implications. It symbolizes the rejection and betrayal of God's chosen Messiah, leading to a deep rupture in the relationship between God and His people.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

In Daniel 11:45, when the beast king makes his final stand....

Daniel 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

The temple complex surrounded by an outer and inner wall on the temple mount had an inner and outer court and a sanctuary building. Together they are called the temple.

In Matthew 21:12-14 in the outer court, Jesus cast out the money changers, and them doing a buisness of selling doves. He also healed the blind and lame in the outer court. Because it was considered a holy place.

12 And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,

13 And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.

14 And the blind and the lame came to him in the temple; and he healed them.

HOLY PLACE

not the court.

again, look at it like a jew would in the time of christ. Or in Daniels time, since daniel was given the prophecy

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

If I understand you question, I am accepting Luke's recordings of this same event... Luke, unlike Matthew who writing to reveal to the Jews, that Jesus is and was their Messiah, their King. While in Mark, he is showing another view of Jesus to the Gentile nation as the suffering servant. But in Luke, who is writing to us as Jesus the man, is not referring to Daniel the prophet or standing or not standing in the holy place.


In the Gospel of Luke, Jesus's life is presented in a chronological order, highlighting His identity as the Son of Man and His mission to bring redemption to humanity. Luke carefully traces Jesus's genealogy back to Adam, emphasizing His deep connection with all people and His role as the ultimate redeemer. Throughout Luke's narrative, Jesus's dual nature as both fully human and divine is emphasized. While He embodies complete humanity, Luke also portrays Him as the divine Messiah through His teachings, miracles, and fulfillment of Old Testament prophecies.

In Luke 21:20, Jesus prophesies the impending destruction of Jerusalem, a consequence of His rejection and crucifixion. This event signifies not only physical devastation but also a spiritual estrangement between God and His people. Luke’s portrayal of Jesus as the Son of Man and the destruction of Jerusalem underscores the central theme of Jesus’s identity and mission. Furthermore, Luke’s focus on Jerusalem suggests that the impact of Jesus’s crucifixion extends beyond the physical Temple to encompass the entire city and its inhabitants. While the crucifixion of an ordinary man would not result in spiritual or a physical desolation, the crucifixion of Jesus, who is both fully human and fully divine, carries profound implications. It symbolizes the rejection and betrayal of God's chosen Messiah, leading to a deep rupture in the relationship between God and His people.

So, are you saying you agree that Luke 21:20-24 is referring to the same event as Matthew 24:15-22 since you said "I am accepting Luke's recordings of this same event"? Which would then mean you are agreeing that Matthew 24:15-22 and Luke 21:20-24 are both about the destruction of Jerusalem and its temple in 70 AD?

 

[CTK]

So, are you saying you agree that Luke 21:20-24 is referring to the same event as Matthew 24:15-22 since you said "I am accepting Luke's recordings of this same event"? Which would then mean you are agreeing that Matthew 24:15-22 and Luke 21:20-24 are both about the destruction of Jerusalem and its temple in 70 AD?

What I am saying clearly, I hope, is that there is no doubt the AOD is referring to the cross - the rejection and crucifixion of their Messiah which not only will cause the destruction of the city, the Temple, the Sanctuary, a million of Jews in 70 AD, but it will cause God to turn away from His people for the next 2000 years. The most abominable act against our God by His people will "make desolate" Him from them.

Jesus is indeed referring to the cross in both Matthew and Mark, and also in Luke but Luke focuses on the destruction of the city, and the desolation. He does not refer to the Temple as does Mark or Matthew.

 

[Douggg]

HOLY PLACE

not the court.

The entire temple mount complex was considered by Jesus as "My Father's House".

 

[covenantee]

What I am saying clearly, I hope, is that there is no doubt the AOD is referring to the cross - the rejection and crucifixion of their Messiah which not only will cause the destruction of the city, the Temple, the Sanctuary, a million of Jews in 70 AD, but it will cause God to turn away from His people for the next 2000 years. The most abominable act against our God by His people will "make desolate" Him from them.

Jesus is indeed referring to the cross in both Matthew and Mark, and also in Luke but Luke focuses on the destruction of the city, and the desolation. He does not refer to the Temple as does Mark or Matthew.

There is no mention of the cross in the verses associated with the AOD in Matthew, Mark, or Luke.

It is true that the AOD was judgment and punishment for Israel's rejection of Messiah, which included sending Him to the cross.

However, Luke specifically identifies the AOD as the armies which desolated Jerusalem.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Not according to Prov. 6:16-17.

lol. This is an abomination to God.

Not an abomination that makes a holy place in the wing of a temple desolate. And it is the same greek word.

An idol. Detestable thing, anhorance, something that makes the person or place unclean

And those who were present, when Jesus was "set up" on His cross, most surely did see the 7th abomination committed against God: "hands that shed innocent blood".\

But thats not an abomination that causes desolation, standing in the holy place.

Psalm 24 [is about Jesus]
[1] The earth is the LORD's, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein.
[2] For he hath founded it upon the seas, and established it upon the floods.
[3] Who shall ascend into the hill of the LORD? or who shall stand in HIS holy place?
[4] He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully.
[5] He shall receive the blessing from the LORD, and righteousness from the God of his salvation.

> 1 Cor. 2
[13] Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Please see my post #221.

Still does not prove your point

An abomination that causes desolation is an idol, unclean thing, something filthy which renders the holy place of a temple unclean. And causes sacrifice and burnt offering to cease because of the desolation

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The entire temple mount complex was considered by Jesus as "My Father's House".

Yes, I know this

But the temple had a “holy place“ and a “most holy place”

Exodus 26:33
And you shall hang the veil from the clasps. Then you shall bring the ark of the Testimony in there, behind the veil. The veil shall be a divider for you between the holy place and the Most Holy.

THE HOLY PLACE is where jesus said they will see this abomination that makes desolate..

 

[covenantee]

Not according to Prov. 6:16-17.

And those who were present, when Jesus was "set up" on His cross, most surely did see the 7th abomination committed against God: "hands that shed innocent blood".

Psalm 24 [is about Jesus]
[1] The earth is the LORD's, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein.
[2] For he hath founded it upon the seas, and established it upon the floods.
[3] Who shall ascend into the hill of the LORD? or who shall stand in HIS holy place?
[4] He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully.
[5] He shall receive the blessing from the LORD, and righteousness from the God of his salvation.

> 1 Cor. 2
[13] Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Please see my post #221.

See what happens when you point EG to Luke 21:20, which identifies the AOD that he's so desperately trying to find.

 

[Douggg]

Yes, I know this

But the temple had a “holy place“ and a “most holy place”

When you are saying temple - you are inferring the temple sanctuary building that was divided into two chambers, separated by thick heavy curtain.

But the entire temple complex is known as the temple. Go here to this Jewish site about the temple...https://templeinstitute.org/

From that site.... "The Temple Mount, in Hebrew Har Habayit, known in the Torah as Mount Moriah, is the holiest spot in the world for all mankind."

Exodus 26:33
And you shall hang the veil from the clasps. Then you shall bring the ark of the Testimony in there, behind the veil. The veil shall be a divider for you between the holy place and the Most Holy.

THE HOLY PLACE is where jesus said they will see this abomination that makes desolate..

Inside the temple sanctuary was the two chambers - one called the holy place and the other where the ark of the covenant was placed, the most holy place.

But the entire temple complex is also considered the holy place, because in Daniel 11:45, the temple mount was referred to as...

45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

Satan is going to indwell the abomination of desolation statue image that the false prophet will have made in Revelation 13:14-15.

For Satan to exposed for the the kings of the earth, and all them present that day, to see at Jesus's return - the abomination of desolation statue image must be out in the open - not inside a building.

Ezekiel 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

The statue image is going to go up in flames and turned to ashes - and there will be Satan on the temple mount for everyone present to see that day.