THE KING/DOM IS COMING

[Zao is life]

"I am the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the Ending, says the Lord, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty. (Revelation 1:8 & 22:13)

John 18
36 My the kingdom is not of this the world [kosmos]: if my kingdom were of this the world [kosmos], then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now, of this present time [nun], is my the kingdom not from hence.

Revelation 11
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this the world [kosmos] are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Hebrews 2
8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him.

But now, of this present time [nun], we see not yet all things put under him.

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

John 14
22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world [kosmos]?

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

The Kingdom of the Messiah has been in this world since the Day of Pentecost, but it is not yet of this world.

His Kingdom is coming.

"Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is the one who watches and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.

--- And he gathered them into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. (Revelation 16:15-16)

THE REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST IS GIVEN TO THOSE WHO HAVE AN EAR TO HEAR (THE REST WILL NOT HEAR) WHAT JESUS SAYS TO THOSE WHO OVERCOME.

"He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give him to eat of the Tree of Life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.". (Rev.2:7)

I will him give power over the nations. (Rev.2:26-29)

He will not be hurt by the second death. (Rev.2:11)

I will not blot out his name out of the Book of Life, but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.(Rev.3:5-6).

I will grant him to sit with Me in My throne, even as I also overcame and have sat down with My Father in His throne. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. (Rev.3:18-22)

But,​

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++​

If anyone worships the beast and its image, and receives a mark in his forehead or in his hand, he also will drink of the wine of the anger of God, having been mixed undiluted in the cup of His wrath.

And he will be tormented by fire and brimstone before the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever. And they have no rest day or night, those who worship the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name. -– Revelation 14:9-11

All dwelling on the earth will worship it, those whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain, from the foundation of the world. -– Revelation 13:8​

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++​

John saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the Word of God, who had not worshiped the beast nor his image, nor had received his mark on their foreheads, nor in their hands, seated on thrones, and judgment was given to them.

And they were alive in their bodies [záō] and reigned with Christ a thousand years. -– Revelation 20:4, but the rest of the dead did not live again [anazáō] until the thousand years were finished.

This is the first resurrection of the body [anástasis]. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. The second death has no authority over these, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him a thousand years. -– Revelation 20:5

Záō = (humans who are) "alive in the body" in the New Testament (when it's not speaking about the living God).

Anazáō = “alive in the body again”.

Anástasis = “the resurrection of the body” in the New Testament (without exception).

Only those who have ears to hear, will hear. The rest will change its meaning to make it say what they will hear (what they want to hear), and so have they already all done.​

 

[Davidpt]

"I am the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the Ending, says the Lord, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty. (Revelation 1:8 & 22:13)

John 18
36 My the kingdom is not of this the world [kosmos]: if my kingdom were of this the world [kosmos], then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now, of this present time [nun], is my the kingdom not from hence.

Revelation 11
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this the world [kosmos] are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Hebrews 2
8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him.

But now, of this present time [nun], we see not yet all things put under him.

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

John 14
22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world [kosmos]?

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

The Kingdom of the Messiah has been in this world since the Day of Pentecost, but it is not yet of this world.

His Kingdom is coming.

"Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is the one who watches and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.

--- And he gathered them into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. (Revelation 16:15-16)

THE REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST IS GIVEN TO THOSE WHO HAVE AN EAR TO HEAR (THE REST WILL NOT HEAR) WHAT JESUS SAYS TO THOSE WHO OVERCOME.

"He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give him to eat of the Tree of Life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.". (Rev.2:7)

I will him give power over the nations. (Rev.2:26-29)

He will not be hurt by the second death. (Rev.2:11)

I will not blot out his name out of the Book of Life, but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.(Rev.3:5-6).

I will grant him to sit with Me in My throne, even as I also overcame and have sat down with My Father in His throne. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. (Rev.3:18-22)

But,​

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++​

If anyone worships the beast and its image, and receives a mark in his forehead or in his hand, he also will drink of the wine of the anger of God, having been mixed undiluted in the cup of His wrath.

And he will be tormented by fire and brimstone before the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever. And they have no rest day or night, those who worship the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name. -– Revelation 14:9-11

All dwelling on the earth will worship it, those whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain, from the foundation of the world. -– Revelation 13:8​

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++​

John saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the Word of God, who had not worshiped the beast nor his image, nor had received his mark on their foreheads, nor in their hands, seated on thrones, and judgment was given to them.

And they were alive in their bodies [záō] and reigned with Christ a thousand years. -– Revelation 20:4, but the rest of the dead did not live again [anazáō] until the thousand years were finished.

This is the first resurrection of the body [anástasis]. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. The second death has no authority over these, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him a thousand years. -– Revelation 20:5

Záō = (humans who are) "alive in the body" in the New Testament (when it's not speaking about the living God).

Anazáō = “alive in the body again”.

Anástasis = “the resurrection of the body” in the New Testament (without exception).

@Stewardofthemystery Only those who have ears to hear, will hear. The rest will change its meaning to make it say what they will hear (what they want to hear), and so have they already all done.​

But let's just throw a monkey wrench into all of this and insist the thousand years already began a cpl thousand years earlier. Now we have to be able to explain (Rev.3:18-22) for one. When we are already plainly told when Christ will sit on His own throne.

Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

Let's just ignore the 'then' in this verse while we are at it. That it doesn't mean, When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him. THEN shall he sit upon the throne of his glory. It instead means He has already been doing this for the past 2000 years, sitting upon the throne of His glory, rather than Him not doing this until this is fulfilled first---When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him

Not to mention. Christ overcame first, then He was rewarded. Amils, for example, have it backwards. They have everyone already being rewarded before they even fully overcome first. Keeping in mind there is such a thing as falling away, which then does not equal that they overcame. Why then do Amils have saints being rewarded with having already ovecome if in the end some don't even fully overcome, they fall away instead?

 

[tailgator]

Zion will be founded,soon after the king Babylon falls.


Isaiah 14
29 Rejoice not thou, whole Palestina, because the rod of him that smote thee is broken: for out of the serpent's root shall come forth a cockatrice, and his fruit shall be a fiery flying serpent.

30 And the firstborn of the poor shall feed, and the needy shall lie down in safety: and I will kill thy root with famine, and he shall slay thy remnant.

31 Howl, O gate; cry, O city; thou, whole Palestina, art dissolved: for there shall come from the north a smoke, and none shall be alone in his appointed times.

32 What shall one then answer the messengers of the nation? That the Lord hath founded Zion, and the poor of his people shall trust in it.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

But let's just throw a monkey wrench into all of this and insist the thousand years already began a cpl thousand years earlier. Now we have to be able to explain (Rev.3:18-22) for one. When we are already plainly told when Christ will sit on His own throne.

Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

Let's just ignore the 'then' in this verse while we are at it. That it doesn't mean, When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him. THEN shall he sit upon the throne of his glory. It instead means He has already been doing this for the past 2000 years, sitting upon the throne of His glory, rather than Him not doing this until this is fulfilled first---When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him

This is a very weak argument. Matthew 25:31-46 is about the day of judgment that will occur when He comes with His angels. He has not yet sat upon the throne of His glory to judge. What other scripture calls "the judgment seat of Christ" (Romans 14:10-12, 2 Cor 5:10). This does not mean that He does not begin to reign until then.

Scripture explicitly teaches that He has been reigning since His resurrection.

Matthew 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. 17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Ephesians 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Colossians 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who IS the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Not to mention. Christ overcame first, then He was rewarded. Amils, for example, have it backwards. They have everyone already being rewarded before they even fully overcome first. Keeping in mind there is such a thing as falling away, which then does not equal that they overcame. Why then do Amils have saints being rewarded with having already ovecome if in the end some don't even fully overcome, they fall away instead?

Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

His throne is in heaven. I don't claim that this happens while we are still physically alive. I believe this happens if we overcome by way of being faithful unto death and if we do that then our souls go to be with Him in heaven.

 

[Davidpt]

This is a very weak argument. Matthew 25:31-46 is about the day of judgment that will occur when He comes with His angels. He has not yet sat upon the throne of His glory to judge. What other scripture calls "the judgment seat of Christ" (Romans 14:10-12, 2 Cor 5:10). This does not mean that He does not begin to reign until then.

Scripture explicitly teaches that He has been reigning since His resurrection.

Matthew 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. 17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Ephesians 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Colossians 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who IS the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

His throne is in heaven. I don't claim that this happens while we are still physically alive. I believe this happens if we overcome by way of being faithful unto death and if we do that then our souls go to be with Him in heaven.

Why would Christ not be the pattern for how things are to be? Do you dispute any of the following? Meaning 1)-3)? My guess is no you do not.

---------------------------
1) Christ had to overcome this world first.

2) Then He had to put on bodily immortality.

3) Then He was rewarded with sitting upon the right hand of power.
------------------------------
As can be seen, 3) on this list is last not first. Per Amil though, 3) on this list is first rather than last.

Something to keep in mind. Even those who are alive and remain until the 2nd coming, they too put on bodily immortality when the dead in Christ do. Which obviously means they never fell away if they are included in the rapture instead.

The point being, all of these, the dead in Christ and those who are still alive when Christ returns, have overcome in this life, and then, just like Christ was, are rewarded with sitting upon the right hand of power.

Except it would look like this now. Christ returns and is then sitting upon the throne of His glory. Those that overcame are then rewarded with sitting upon the right hand of power, but not on the right hand of the Father in heaven, but on the right hand of Christ once He returns to the earth. Only Christ is worthy of sitting with the Father in the Father's throne. None of us are. But we will be worthy of sitting on the right hand of Christ upon the earth though, where the following, for one, is meaning exactly that. Keeping in mind that Matthew 25:31 undeniably gives us the timing of when Matthew 19:28 and Luke 22:30 initially begin.

Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Luke 22:30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Look what Matthew 19:28 records---in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory. Now look what Matthew 25:31 records---then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory. Anyone that would argue that the former is not meaning when the latter is meaning, is a perfect example of what pure doctrinal bias looks like.

And I didn't even use the OT in this case. I proved everything per the NT, yet you will still reject it, regardless.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Why would Christ not be the pattern for how things are to be? Do you dispute any of the following? Meaning 1)-3)? My guess is no you do not.

---------------------------
1) Christ had to overcome this world first.

2) Then He had to put on bodily immortality.

3) Then He was rewarded with sitting upon the right hand of power.
------------------------------
As can be seen, 3) on this list is last not first. Per Amil though, 3) on this list is first rather than last.

Something to keep in mind. Even those who are alive and remain until the 2nd coming, they too put on bodily immortality when the dead in Christ do. Which obviously means they never fell away if they are included in the rapture instead.

The point being, all of these, the dead in Christ and those who are still alive when Christ returns, have overcome in this life, and then, just like Christ was, are rewarded with sitting upon the right hand of power.

Except it would look like this now. Christ returns and is then sitting upon the throne of His glory. Those that overcame are then rewarded with sitting upon the right hand of power, but not on the right hand of the Father in heaven, but on the right hand of Christ once He returns to the earth. Only Christ is worthy of sitting with the Father in the Father's throne. None of us are. But we will be worthy of sitting on the right hand of Christ upon the earth though, where the following, for one, is meaning exactly that. Keeping in mind that Matthew 25:31 undeniably gives us the timing of when Matthew 19:28 and Luke 22:30 initially begin.

Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Luke 22:30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

And I didn't even use the OT in this case. I proved everything per the NT, yet you will still reject it, regardless.

Address my points first and then I will address yours. How many times have I had to tell you this? I'm not interested in being the only one who addresses the other's points.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

But let's just throw a monkey wrench into all of this and insist the thousand years already began a cpl thousand years earlier. Now we have to be able to explain (Rev.3:18-22) for one. When we are already plainly told when Christ will sit on His own throne.

Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

Let's just ignore the 'then' in this verse while we are at it. That it doesn't mean, When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him. THEN shall he sit upon the throne of his glory. It instead means He has already been doing this for the past 2000 years, sitting upon the throne of His glory, rather than Him not doing this until this is fulfilled first---When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him

While I wait for you to actually specifically address what I said in post #4, please tell me your understanding of Matthew 25:31-46. You agree that it's talking about something that will occur just after Jesus comes with His angels, I assume? And you agree that it shows both saved and lost people being gathered at the same time before Him at that point?

Would you agree that the kingdom prepared form the foundation of the world that the sheep/righteous inherit is the kingdom of God? If so, who do you believe the sheep represent who inherit the kingdom of God at that point?

 

[Davidpt]

"I am the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the Ending, says the Lord, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty. (Revelation 1:8 & 22:13)

John 18
36 My the kingdom is not of this the world [kosmos]: if my kingdom were of this the world [kosmos], then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now, of this present time [nun], is my the kingdom not from hence.

Revelation 11
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this the world [kosmos] are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Hebrews 2
8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him.

But now, of this present time [nun], we see not yet all things put under him.

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

John 14
22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world [kosmos]?

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

The Kingdom of the Messiah has been in this world since the Day of Pentecost, but it is not yet of this world.

His Kingdom is coming.

"Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is the one who watches and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.

--- And he gathered them into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. (Revelation 16:15-16)

THE REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST IS GIVEN TO THOSE WHO HAVE AN EAR TO HEAR (THE REST WILL NOT HEAR) WHAT JESUS SAYS TO THOSE WHO OVERCOME.

"He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give him to eat of the Tree of Life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.". (Rev.2:7)

I will him give power over the nations. (Rev.2:26-29)

He will not be hurt by the second death. (Rev.2:11)

I will not blot out his name out of the Book of Life, but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.(Rev.3:5-6).

I will grant him to sit with Me in My throne, even as I also overcame and have sat down with My Father in His throne. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. (Rev.3:18-22)

But,​

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++​

If anyone worships the beast and its image, and receives a mark in his forehead or in his hand, he also will drink of the wine of the anger of God, having been mixed undiluted in the cup of His wrath.

And he will be tormented by fire and brimstone before the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever. And they have no rest day or night, those who worship the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name. -– Revelation 14:9-11

All dwelling on the earth will worship it, those whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain, from the foundation of the world. -– Revelation 13:8​

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++​

John saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the Word of God, who had not worshiped the beast nor his image, nor had received his mark on their foreheads, nor in their hands, seated on thrones, and judgment was given to them.

And they were alive in their bodies [záō] and reigned with Christ a thousand years. -– Revelation 20:4, but the rest of the dead did not live again [anazáō] until the thousand years were finished.

This is the first resurrection of the body [anástasis]. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. The second death has no authority over these, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him a thousand years. -– Revelation 20:5

Záō = (humans who are) "alive in the body" in the New Testament (when it's not speaking about the living God).

Anazáō = “alive in the body again”.

Anástasis = “the resurrection of the body” in the New Testament (without exception).

@Stewardofthemystery Only those who have ears to hear, will hear. The rest will change its meaning to make it say what they will hear (what they want to hear), and so have they already all done.​

IMO, the following are also relevant to the OP.

Luke 19:11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.
12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return
Luke 19:15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.


Luke 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.

Guess what Luke 19:11 does not say? It does not say the kingdom of God should not literally physically appear. Nope, it doesn't say that. It instead explains why it does not immediately literally physically appear. Verse 12 being some of the reasons why. But what do some interpreters do? They twist verse 11 and have it meaning the kingdom of God never literally physically appears. They instead use the following to interpret it.

Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Either there is a contradiction here, or there are 2 aspects of this kingdom. Meaning that Luke 17:20-21 is being applied to the here and now, and that Luke 19:11 is being applied to the future and involves Christ literally bodily returning.

Which, BTW, is what Luke 21:27-31 is involving, the bodily return of Christ, that being why I brought that passage up as well. Because, for one, this in Luke 21:31--know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand--is not being applied to the here and now like Luke 17:20-21 is being applied. It is being applied like Luke 19:11 is being applied.

 

[Davidpt]

While I wait for you to actually specifically address what I said in post #4, please tell me your understanding of Matthew 25:31-46. You agree that it's talking about something that will occur just after Jesus comes with His angels, I assume? And you agree that it shows both saved and lost people being gathered at the same time before Him at that point?

Would you agree that the kingdom prepared form the foundation of the world that the sheep/righteous inherit is the kingdom of God? If so, who do you believe the sheep represent who inherit the kingdom of God at that point?

Per this context, the sheep represent the saved during the NT church era the fact it involves having a personal relationship with Christ. IOW, one can't have a personal relationship with Christ before He is even born first. Take the following, for example.

Matthew 25:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.


Take Adam, for example. Clearly, he is among the ones that inherit everlasting life, yet how does one apply verse 40, for example, to Adam? The sheep are the ones that hear and obey Christ. How can anyone hear and obey Christ before Christ is even born first? For example, things that Christ taught, such as the following.

Matthew 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.


This would be an example of hearing Christ then obeying Him. How could anyone before Christ was born hear what He said here and then obey it when it wasn't until after He was born first that He even said this to begin with?

 

[Zao is life]

But let's just throw a monkey wrench into all of this and insist the thousand years already began a cpl thousand years earlier. Now we have to be able to explain (Rev.3:18-22) for one. When we are already plainly told when Christ will sit on His own throne.

Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

Let's just ignore the 'then' in this verse while we are at it. That it doesn't mean, When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him. THEN shall he sit upon the throne of his glory. It instead means He has already been doing this for the past 2000 years, sitting upon the throne of His glory, rather than Him not doing this until this is fulfilled first---When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him

Not to mention. Christ overcame first, then He was rewarded. Amils, for example, have it backwards. They have everyone already being rewarded before they even fully overcome first. Keeping in mind there is such a thing as falling away, which then does not equal that they overcame. Why then do Amils have saints being rewarded with having already ovecome if in the end some don't even fully overcome, they fall away instead?

Yes. I agree. The Kingdom of Christ "is within you" can also be translated as "in your midst" and Jesus, who was in their midst was replying to those who had asked Him that question, indirectly telling them that though the Kingdom was in their midst they were so blind, they did not recognize who He was.
​

Matthew 12
28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. Matthew 12

Luke 17
20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

But aside from the above, Christ dwells in those who He purchased with His own blood who also believe in Him and receive His grace. Hence His Kingdom is in the world, but not of this world, just as He Himself said.

As regards the rest of what you say above (which I fully agree with), the thrust of the argument that was put forward to you regarding this by another poster (who has chosen to ignore me for a while, and me likewise him - hence my mentioning this to you), goes like this:

"Scripture explicitly teaches that He has been reigning since His resurrection".

Which is a false statement, and can only be believed through deliberate choice - because scripture, i.e what is written, explicitly teaches that though all authority in heaven and on earth has already been placed under His feet, yet we do not yet see it - meaning it is not yet the reality on the earth:

"At present we do not yet see all things under his control, but we see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by God's grace he would experience death on behalf of everyone."

The above is what scripture explicitly teaches (I did not invent it, or choose to believe it does not mean what it says).

The statement is written in Hebrews 2:8-9, which begins by saying,

"You put all things under his control." For when he put all things under his control, he left nothing outside of his control",

and then the author of the epistle qualifies his statement with:

"At present we do not yet see all things under his control, but we see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by God's grace he would experience death on behalf of everyone."

Revelation 1:5 - which was quoted to you as though it supports the false assertion which was put forward to you - merely reiterates the above statement in Hebrews with the words, "Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood".

In the Kingdom of Christ that is currently IN the world, we have been made kings and priests - but it's very clear that we do not now currently reign as kings - and Revelation qualifies these statements too with other statements such as,

He who overcomes and keeps My works to the end, to him I will give power over the nations.

Which of course we do not now have in the sense mentioned here:

To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me in My throne, even as I also overcame and have sat down with My Father in His throne.

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the Word of God,

and who had not worshiped the beast nor his image, nor had received his mark on their foreheads, nor in their hands. And they were alive in their bodies [záō] and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Quite clearly the above promises are all made to the people who overcame and kept His Word to the end.

The amount of false assertions that just one post can contain of what is supposedly "written" ("Scripture explicitly teaches that ..") when what is claimed is in fact not what is written or what it means, which get posted by those who can only make false assertions like this because they have changed the meaning of scripture to force scripture to comply with their own theology and beliefs, is always easily notable. It's also easily notable how they will begin such false assertions with statements like "Scripture explicitly teaches ..."

Hopefully the things you say will be addressed by anyone who argues against what you say (because this has not been the case until now).​

 

[Zao is life]

IMO, the following are also relevant to the OP.

Luke 19:11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.
12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return
Luke 19:15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.


Luke 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.

Guess what Luke 19:11 does not say? It does not say the kingdom of God should not literally physically appear. Nope, it doesn't say that. It instead explains why it does not immediately literally physically appear. Verse 12 being some of the reasons why. But what do some interpreters do? They twist verse 11 and have it meaning the kingdom of God never literally physically appears. They instead use the following to interpret it.

Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Either there is a contradiction here, or there are 2 aspects of this kingdom. Meaning that Luke 17:20-21 is being applied to the here and now, and that Luke 19:11 is being applied to the future and involves Christ literally bodily returning.

Which, BTW, is what Luke 21:27-31 is involving, the bodily return of Christ, that being why I brought that passage up as well. Because, for one, this in Luke 21:31--know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand--is not being applied to the here and now like Luke 17:20-21 is being applied. It is being applied like Luke 19:11 is being applied.

Yes. Scripture explicitly teaches in all these passages that though Christ has been given a name which is above all names and all authority in heaven and on earth placed under His feet, yet it is not yet a reality that we see - and this of course is not because He is "not able to" - but it's by His own choice.

It's just as you say above. Scripture explicitly teaches in so many ways and in so many places that the things prophesied about Him reigning over the nations with a rod of iron are not for this present Age.

"You are not permitted to know the times or periods that the Father has set by his own authority. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the farthest parts of the earth.
After he had said this, while they were watching, he was lifted up and a cloud hid him from their sight. As they were still staring into the sky while he was going, suddenly two men in white clothing stood near them and said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand here looking up into the sky? This same Jesus who has been taken up from you into heaven will come back in the same way you saw him go into heaven." (Acts 1:7-11).

@David in NJ @Davidpt LOL. I actually prefer not to start off a sentence with the assertion "Scripture explicitly teaches" like I did above because experience has taught me that when someone (anyone) starts off with an assertion like that, you can be almost sure that what he is about to assert is false, because the reason why people do that is to falsely imply that whatever they are about to say is therefore true, because "scripture explicitly teaches it".

So I only started this post with those words and added this to it to make that point. ​

 

[Davidpt]

"You are not permitted to know the times or periods that the Father has set by his own authority. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the farthest parts of the earth.
(Acts 1:7-11).

And the way some interpret that, they take that to be meaning this was fulfilled some mere days later during the feast of Pentecost. As if it makes sense that times and seasons can somehow fit within a period of time involving mere days, such as less than 2 months. Obviously, times and seasons involve more than a few mere days. That's just plain common sense.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Per this context, the sheep represent the saved during the NT church era the fact it involves having a personal relationship with Christ. IOW, one can't have a personal relationship with Christ before He is even born first. Take the following, for example.

Matthew 25:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

Why would it not also include OT saints who looked forward to His coming? So, you think the dead in Christ only include NT saints? When Moses and Elijah talked to Him at His transfiguration did He tell them "Sorry, guys, but you won't be inheriting eternal life in the kingdom prepared from the foundation of the world when I return in the future. That's just for NT saints."?

Have you never read this:

1 Corinthians 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

This says the spiritual Rock of those OT saints was Christ. But, you are trying to tell me they are not among the dead in Christ who will inherit the kingdom of God when He comes?

Do you believe any of the sheep who will inherit the kingdom of God at that point are mortals? If not, then what mortals exactly do you think will populate the earth at that point, as you believe will happen?

Take Adam, for example. Clearly, he is among the ones that inherit everlasting life, yet how does one apply verse 40, for example, to Adam? The sheep are the ones that hear and obey Christ. How can anyone hear and obey Christ before Christ is even born first? For example, things that Christ taught, such as the following.

Matthew 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

See above. There is no reason whatsoever to not include OT saints among the sheep who will inherit eternal life in the kingdom prepared from the foundation of the world. They belong to Christ every bit as much as NT saints do. As Paul taught, their spiritual Rock was Christ.

This would be an example of hearing Christ then obeying Him. How could anyone before Christ was born hear what He said here and then obey it when it wasn't until after He was born first that He even said this to begin with?

Read 1 Corinthians 10:1-4. You need to use spiritual discernment for these things instead of always only relying on your fallible human logic.

You didn't say who you believe the goats are. Based on your understanding of the sheep, is it your belief that the goats represent the unsaved during the NT era?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

And the way some interpret that, they take that to be meaning this was fulfilled some mere days later during the feast of Pentecost. As if it makes sense that times and seasons can somehow fit within a period of time involving mere days, such as less than 2 months. Obviously, times and seasons involve more than a few mere days. That's just plain common sense.

Who says that it involved "mere days"? Obviously, them being "witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth" would take years and not days. It began on the day of Pentecost, but they obviously did not preach the gospel "unto the uttermost part of the earth" within days of that time.

In Acts 1:8 Jesus was revealing to them that not only would the kingdom be restored to people in Israel, but would also extend to people in the entire world. And it would occur by the power of the Holy Spirit. They did not have a proper understanding of the kingdom of God yet at that time, so their question was based on their ignorance. They didn't yet know this:

Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Yes, we will inherit the kingdom of God in its fullness with immortal bodies in the future, but we're in the kingdom of God spiritually now.

 

[Davidpt]

You didn't say who you believe the goats are. Based on your understanding of the sheep, is it your belief that the goats represent the unsaved during the NT era?

How can you not know my position on that by now? I have been over it numerous times, haven't I?

I use context leading up to the sheep and goats judgment to help me determine who the goats are meaning. After all, isn't context relevant when trying to determine the meaning of something? I think it is. Not only do I think it is, I know it is. What is the context of Matthew 24:40 through Matthew 25:30? Is it not profitable servants of Christ vs unprofitable servants of Christ? And the fact you agree NOSAS is Biblical, it makes no sense that if you can't see that being the context pertaining Matthew 24:40 through Matthew 25:30. I'm not saying you don't. I'm saying, in the event you don't for some reason, I don't see it making sense the fact you already agree NOSAS is Biblical.

It is crystal clear that the servants per Matthew 24:40 through Matthew 25:30 are professed servants of Christ during the NT church era while Christ is away, thus because He had ascended back into heaven. No way does anything involving Matthew 24:40 through Matthew 25:30 involve anyone other than professed servants of Christ while He is away. None of His professed servants per any of those verses are meaning Adam, Daniel, Ezekiel, so on and so on. And we need to remember that when we get to the part in Matthew 25 involving the sheep and goats judgment.

It might be the reason Daniel 12:2 says some rise to everlasting shame, meaning the unprofitable servants of Christ during the NT church era. Whether that can work with Premil I'm not sure since it would mean some of the unsaved dead also rise during the 2nd coming. But it wouldn't necessarily have to mean all of the unsaved dead rise at that particular time, though.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

How can you not know my position on that by now? I have been over it numerous times, haven't I?

Maybe a few times, but it's been a long time so I don't recall exactly how you interpret it. What I'm trying to get at here is where do the mortals come from that you believe will populate the earth after the second coming of Christ? It can't be the sheep who inherit "life eternal" (Matt 25:46) in the kingdom of God at that point because mortal "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God" (1 Cor 15:50). So, what I'm really getting at is trying to find out who you think will be the mortals who populate the earth after Christ returns. So, who are they?

I use context leading up to the sheep and goats judgment to help me determine who the goats are meaning. After all, isn't context relevant when trying to determine the meaning of something? I think it is. Not only do I think it is, I know it is.

Of course context is very important. As is keeping all of scripture in mind whenever interpreting any passage of scripture.

Scripture teaches that all people will one day stand before the judgment seat of Christ to give an account of themselves.

Romans 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. 12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

In case you don't think that is talking about all people having to stand before the judgment seat of Christ, consider that Paul referenced this passage there:

Isaiah 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. 23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. 24 Surely, shall one say, in the Lord have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.

Notice here that even those "that are incensed against" God and "shall be ashamed" of themselves will bow before Him at that time. They will acknowledge that Jesus is Lord at that point to their shame because they failed to repent when they had the chance and they will be cast into the lake of fire.

Phillippians 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

What is the context of Matthew 24:40 through Matthew 25:30? Is it not profitable servants of Christ vs unprofitable servants of Christ? And the fact you agree NOSAS is Biblical, it makes no sense that if you can't see that being the context pertaining Matthew 24:40 through Matthew 25:30. I'm not saying you don't. I'm saying, in the event you don't for some reason, I don't see it making sense the fact you already agree NOSAS is Biblical.

Why do you think that the context of Matthew 25:31-46 can only be determined by what is written just previous to it rather than what is written in ALL of scripture? How about Matthew 13:36-43 and Matthew 13:47-50? Do those not have all people being judged at the same time at the end of the age? Can those not be used to help determine the context of Matthew 25:31-46? I certainly believe so. Passages like Romans 14:10-12, John 5:28-29, John 6:40 and John 12:48 also need to be taken into account. Also, Jesus said "He who is not with me is against me" (Mathew 12:30), so He divided all people into two groups. Those who were with Him and those who were against Him.

It is crystal clear that the servants per Matthew 24:40 through Matthew 25:30 are professed servants of Christ during the NT church era while Christ is away, thus because He had ascended back into heaven. No way does anything involving Matthew 24:40 through Matthew 25:30 involve anyone other than professed servants of Christ while He is away. None of His professed servants per any of those verses are meaning Adam, Daniel, Ezekiel, so on and so on. And we need to remember that when we get to the part in Matthew 25 involving the sheep and goats judgment.

Your line of reasoning is so narrow. Why? Yes, Jesus did want to make it clear that those who think they are Christians, but are not, and will say "Lord, Lord, open to us" when He comes (Matt 25:11, Luke 13:25), will be cast out to where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. He will tell them that He doesn't know them. But, that doesn't mean that Matthew 25:31-46 has to have that same context. It does not mean that the goats can only represent those who think they are Christians but are not.

When else can this happen:

Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left....41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Except for when this happens:

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. 11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them....15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Those passages are clearly referring to the same event. Surely, there will not be two separate times when unbelievers are cast into the lake of fire. That makes no sense. Matthew 25:31-46 indicates that the timing of that is when Christ comes with His angels and Revelation 20:10-15 indicates that it will occur after the thousand years (and Satan's little season).

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It might be the reason Daniel 12:2 says some rise to everlasting shame, meaning the unprofitable servants of Christ during the NT church era. Whether that can work with Premil I'm not sure since it would mean some of the unsaved dead also rise during the 2nd coming. But it wouldn't necessarily have to mean all of the unsaved dead rise at that particular time, though.

You are really showing your doctrinal bias here. You clearly are trying to figure out a way to make Daniel 12:2 fit with your premil doctrine instead of trying to interpret it objectively.

First of all, Daniel 12:2 does not say only some of the unsaved dead rise at that time. To assume that the word "many" there means "many, but not all" is a mistake. The word "many" is translated from the Hebrew word "rab" which does NOT mean "many, but not all". It refers to a large number which could refer to all of something or not. It is translated as "many", "much" or "great" in the Old Testament. The word itself does not indicate one way or another whether it's talking about all or some, but not all of something.

Here are examples where that Hebrew word "rab" refers to all of something, of which there were "many".

Genesis 21:33 And Abraham planted a grove in Beersheba, and called there on the name of the Lord, the everlasting God. 34 And Abraham sojourned in the Philistines' land many (rab) days.

This is talking about all of the days which "Abraham sojourned in the Philistines' land", of which there were "many".

Genesis 37:31 And they took Joseph's coat, and killed a kid of the goats, and dipped the coat in the blood; 32 And they sent the coat of many colours, and they brought it to their father; and said, This have we found: know now whether it be thy son's coat or no. 33 And he knew it, and said, It is my son's coat; an evil beast hath devoured him; Joseph is without doubt rent in pieces. 34 And Jacob rent his clothes, and put sackcloth upon his loins, and mourned for his son many (rab) days.

In this passage it talks about how Jacob mistakenly thought that his son Joseph had died and it refers to all of the days that he mourned for his son, of which there were "many".

Exodus 5:4 And the king of Egypt said unto them, Wherefore do ye, Moses and Aaron, let the people from their works? get you unto your burdens. 5 And Pharaoh said, Behold, the people of the land now are many (rab), and ye make them rest from their burdens.

In this passage Pharoah refers to all of the Israelite slaves who were in Egypt and indicates that the number of them were "many".

So, there is no reason to assume that Daniel 12:2 is only talking about some of the dead being raised. Would you try to say that only some believers will be raised at that point? Paul made it clear that all believers will be raised when Jesus comes (1 Corinthians 15:22-23).

Also, we can trust Jesus to have understood what Daniel 12:2 means. And He said this:

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Jesus said the hour is coming when ALL of the dead will be resurrected. He did not say that two hours are coming when the dead will be resurrected. It's clear to me that John 5:28-29 and Daniel 12:2 are referring to the same thing.

What scripture can you use to support the idea of both believers and unbelievers being resurrected at the same time more than once in the future? There is none.

 

[Timtofly]

In case you don't think that is talking about all people having to stand before the judgment seat of Christ, consider that Paul referenced this passage there:

Since you say Jesus is reigning with authority now, would not each believer stand before that judgment seat each time they enter heaven upon physical death?

You want Jesus to be reigning now, but think we all have to wait to be judged? All have been judged, and now also symbolically sit in judgment with Christ, in the heavenly kingdom. That has been ongoing since the Cross. The thief was the first to stand before God that day.

Paul was talking to the church, and telling them, the church had to all stand before God and Christ, and give an account. Not that the lost would go to heaven and give an account. The lost never go to heaven in any Scripture. Yet you seem to imply they will.

When Jesus comes with all his angels, that throne will be in Jerusalem. They will still be physically alive. None of the sheep and goats in this account have physically died. That is an erroneous assumption you force into the text. They are gathered alive from all nations. Nations do not exist in the grave, nor in heaven. Why would goats be rounded up from nations in heaven?

The sheep do inherit the earth. These sheep don't go to Paradise, nor are they part of the church that was already glorified. The sheep are those who are mentined here:

"until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled." Revelation 6:11

The sheep are redeemed, so fellow brethren. They will be removed from Adam's dead corruptible flesh (killed as they were) , but the sheep are not glorified. The sheep will have permanent incorruptible physical bodies, and rule and reign over their offspring for a thousand years. The part about procreation not available, was for the redeemed in Paradise post the Cross.

That does not mean they did not have physical bodies, because they did, as all received the first resurrection, a physical body. Paradise was not filled by procreation. Paradise was filled hour by hour, day by day, year by year, from redeemed souls leaving earth, and entering God's permanent incorruptible physical body. It was not done by physical means (made by human hands) . It was done by God upon physical death.


Now those sheep would be translated to not see death, like Enoch and those at the rapture, but these sheep would not enter Paradise, but would wait on the sea of glass, until the 7th Trumpet stops sounding.

The putting on of white robes only happens one time in all of creation. That is the only single event the church is still waiting for. We are never told if those sheep are ever glorified. They will still live outside of the New Jerusalem, even in the NHNE. Or they will live inside, and be glorified. Either point is an assumption. We know there are people living outside of the New Jerusalem, representing all the nations of the earth. Revelation 21:24-27

"And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life."

We can see that nations still exist, something that does not define the church, as there is no such distinction in the church. Nations are not inside the New Jerusalem. They are redeemed souls outside of the city representing the entire earth. Now explain how billions can be outside if there is no 1,000 year reign, and you have all humanity dead at the Second Coming. Do some get cast out of the New Jerusalem, and revert back to nations?

The only explanation some can give is the church is currently the New Jerusalem, and Revelation 21 is just another view of the church age, instead of chronologically after Revelation 20. Is there never going to be a new creation, since that interpretation does away with any new creation, but turns Revelation 21 into a spiritual concept? People must think there is just total annihilation, and we are only in God's mind for eternity?