There are 2 tribulation periods, the “first” is to the Jews

[Spiritual Israelite]

2 Thes. 2[11] And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth [Jesus Himself], that they might be saved.

> Did you know that there are more tares in the churches, than there are wheat??
This is what a "tare" looks like:
2 Tim. 2[5] Having a form of godliness, but denying the [Holy Spirit] power [infilling] thereof: from such turn away.
In other words their "christian" experience is "self willed" through their flesh, and NOT by the Holy Spirit's indwelling will. They spend their whole time and/or life COPYING Jesus!! They have a human faith in Jesus (and not "the faith of Jesus"), through "the wisdom of men", which is where our faith should NOT stand!! 1 Cor. 2:5.

[11] And for this cause [for being Lukewarm] God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Are you even reading anything I'm saying? You're not addressing anything I'm saying. You are coming across like you are saying that anyone who interprets Daniel 9:24-27 the way they do (putting the 70th week in the future) rejects the truth (which is Jesus - John 14:6 - and His gospel) and is not saved. Is that what you are intending to say? If so, then you have a different definition for salvation than scripture does. You can love Jesus and still be mistaken about end times doctrine. I consider end times doctrine to be among the "deeper things of God" and the "meat" or "solid food" that Paul wrote about in 1st Corinthians 2 and 3. Some "babes in Christ" are just not ready to understand things like this, but that doesn't mean they reject the truth and are not saved. Paul said such people are "in Christ", but they are spiritually immature.

 

[Earburner]

Are you even reading anything I'm saying? You're not addressing anything I'm saying. You are coming across like you are saying that anyone who interprets Daniel 9:24-27 the way they do (putting the 70th week in the future) rejects the truth (which is Jesus - John 14:6 - and His gospel) and is not saved. Is that what you are intending to say? If so, then you have a different definition for salvation than scripture does. You can love Jesus and still be mistaken about end times doctrine. I consider end times doctrine to be among the "deeper things of God" and the "meat" or "solid food" that Paul wrote about in 1st Corinthians 2 and 3. Some "babes in Christ" are just not ready to understand things like this, but that doesn't mean they reject the truth and are not saved. Paul said such people are "in Christ", but they are spiritually immature.

I gave the criteria for our FREE Gift of His salvation to us. Rom. 8:8-9 and Rev. 3:14-22.
And you think that I'm not reading what you write?? I am addressing it directly, but it doesn't fit to your liking.

 

[Earburner]

Are you even reading anything I'm saying? You're not addressing anything I'm saying. You are coming across like you are saying that anyone who interprets Daniel 9:24-27 the way they do (putting the 70th week in the future) rejects the truth (which is Jesus - John 14:6 - and His gospel) and is not saved. Is that what you are intending to say? If so, then you have a different definition for salvation than scripture does. You can love Jesus and still be mistaken about end times doctrine. I consider end times doctrine to be among the "deeper things of God" and the "meat" or "solid food" that Paul wrote about in 1st Corinthians 2 and 3. Some "babes in Christ" are just not ready to understand things like this, but that doesn't mean they reject the truth and are not saved. Paul said such people are "in Christ", but they are spiritually immature.

Please describe how a baptized person becomes a "babe" in Christ through the following:
Luke 11
[13] If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Acts 19
[1] And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
[2] He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
[3] And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
[4] Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
[5] When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
[6] And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

There are many "professing" christians who are baptized into a church for to be members, but few there be that seriously seek to be converted (born again) in Christ.
Which one is a "tare", and which one is "wheat"?

To become a "babe" in Christ, is a two stage process.
#1 To repent towards God, seeking HIS forgiveness of all sins, through faith in the sacrificial blood of Christ (atonement), and
#2 then to ASK FOR the FREE Gift of His Holy Spirit (the mind of Christ) to come into your life (sanctification)!! Luke 11:13; Rev. 3:20.

DID YOU know, as Acts 19:1-6 reveals it, that most professing christians are only half way saved/sealed through that process of the 2 stages, thus having not the Spirit of Christ, and therefore ARE none of his. Rom. 8:9.

That is the parabolic situation of "the Strongman" (satan), against Him who is "The STRONGER". All here should re-read Mat. 12:29; Mark 3:27; Luke 11:21-22, in conjunction with Mat. 12:43-45.

This might be a clue:
John 4
[23] But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit AND in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
[24] God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
The Truth of Jesus CANNOT be conveyed to anyone, who does not HAVE the Holy Spirit within them.

By the way, "David Jeremiah" is not a Babe in Christ. Does not David Jeremiah "prophesy in Christ's name"? Why does he have it so wrong?

Decoding Daniel’s Seventy-Weeks Prophecy

Daniel’s Seventy-Weeks prophecy contains vital information for understanding end-time events. Explore this ancient revelation with Dr. David Jeremiah.

davidjeremiah.blog

Edit:
Have you not understood the situation of Martha and Mary, and how Jesus spoke of them?? Luke 10:38-42.
Mat. 7
[20] Wherefore by their fruits [the Character of the Holy Spirit] ye shall know them.
[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
[22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not
prophesied in thy name? and
in thy name have cast out devils? and
in thy name done many wonderful works?
[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
WHAT?? Professing christians are workers of iniquity?? Yes, you heard right!
WHY??
They were never sealed by the Holy Spirit's indwelling, unto the Day of redemption.


And the many may think and say: "WHAT?!!, He said that TO US, and NOT to them, who DID NOTHING, EXCEPT to sit at His feet???"

Maybe all here should re-read the parable of the 10 virgins (Mat. 25:1-12), and learn that there are many tares (pseudo christians) in the churches, who operate and teach by "the wisdom of men", which is where your/our faith should NOT stand!!
1 Cor. 2
[5] That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power [authority] of God.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Please describe how a baptized person becomes a "babe" in Christ through the following:
Luke 11
[13] If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Acts 19
[1] And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
[2] He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
[3] And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
[4] Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
[5] When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
[6] And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

There are many "professing" christians who are baptized into a church for to be members, but few there be that seriously seek to be converted (born again) in Christ.
Which one is a "tare", and which one is "wheat"?

To become a "babe" in Christ, is a two stage process.
#1 To repent towards God, seeking HIS forgiveness of all sins, through faith in the sacrificial blood of Christ (atonement), and

#2 then to ASK FOR the FREE Gift of His Holy Spirit (the mind of Christ) to come into your life (sanctification)!!
DID YOU know, as Acts 19:1-6 reveals it, that most professing christians are only half way saved/sealed through that process of 2 stages, having not the Spirit of Christ, and therefore ARE none of his.
Rom. 8:9.

That is the parabolic situation of "the Strongman", against Him who is "The STRONGER". Mat. 12:29; Mark 3:27; Luke 11:21-22.

This might be a clue:
John 4
[23] But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit AND in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
[24] God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
The Truth of Jesus CANNOT be conveyed to anyone, who does not HAVE the Holy Spirit within them.

By the way, "David Jeremiah" is not a Babe in Christ. Why does he have it so wrong?

Decoding Daniel’s Seventy-Weeks Prophecy

Daniel’s Seventy-Weeks prophecy contains vital information for understanding end-time events. Explore this ancient revelation with Dr. David Jeremiah.

davidjeremiah.blog

Edit:
Have you not understood the situation of Martha and Mary, and how Jesus spoke of them?? Luke 10:38-42.
Mat. 7
[20] Wherefore by their fruits [of the Holy Spirit] ye shall know them.
[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
[22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not
prophesied in thy name? and
in thy name have cast out devils? and
in thy name done many wonderful works?
[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

And the many may think and say: "WHAT?!!, He said that TO US, and NOT to them, who DID NOTHING, EXCEPT to sit at His feet???"

Maybe all here should re-read the parable of the 10 virgins (Mat. 25:1-12), and learn that there are many tares (pseudo christians) in the churches, who operate and teach by "the wisdom of men", which is where your/our faith should NOT stand!!
1 Cor. 2
[5] That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power [authority] of God.

Good grief. Calm down. You're going to give yourself a heart attack the way you're getting all worked up here. You're talking to me like I said something offensive about your mother.

It seems that in your view the thief on the cross couldn't be saved and the ones Paul called "babes in Christ" in the following passage were not saved even though you can't be "in Christ" and not be saved.

1 Corinthians 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. 3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

 

[Earburner]

Good grief. Calm down. You're going to give yourself a heart attack the way you're getting all worked up here. You're talking to me like I said something offensive about your mother.

It seems that in your view the thief on the cross couldn't be saved and the ones Paul called "babes in Christ" in the following passage were not saved even though you can't be "in Christ" and not be saved.

1 Corinthians 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. 3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

I am calm. To me, you are the one that's not, by how you replied to me in post #261: "Are you even reading anything I'm saying? You're not addressing anything I'm saying."
Though you are not seeing it, I am directly addressing what you say.

According to what I have said in post #263, why is (Dr.) David Jeremiah, who prophesies in Christ's Name, got it all wrong?
He is NOT a babe in Christ!

Why is he in agreement to "cutting off" the 70th week, and then attaching it to the "end days", calling it "The 7 year Great Tribulation"? How is it that he is so wrong?
My answer is: he operates through "the wisdom of men", and not by the authority of the Holy Spirit!

As for the thief on the cross, he was repentant, and believed in Jesus, whereby his confidence of faith was revealed, when he said the OC. key word: "Remember" me when you come into your kingdom".
Malachi 3:16.
You might want to consider that he was the first martyr who died in faith, under the NC. of Christ's Kingdom.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I am calm. To me, you are the one that's not, by how you replied to me in post #261: "Are you even reading anything I'm saying? You're not addressing anything I'm saying."

I was completely calm when saying that. I could not see how what you were saying had anything to do with what I said.

Though you are not seeing it, I am directly addressing what you say.

Well, we need to end this discussion soon then since neither of us are seeing what the other is saying. It's becoming a waste of time.

According to what I have said in post #263, why is (Dr.) David Jeremiah, who prophesies in Christ's Name, got it all wrong?
He is NOT a babe in Christ!

You are saying you think he is not a Christian? In terms of Bible prophecy, I would consider him a "babe in Christ" in terms of his low level of discernment when it comes to Bible prophecy, but he is probably a more mature Christian in other ways. I don't know everything that he believes.

Why is he in agreement to "cutting off" the 70th week, and then attaching it to the "end days", calling it "The 7 year Great Tribulation"? How is it that he is so wrong?
My answer is: he operates through "the wisdom of men", and not by the authority of the Holy Spirit!

Does this mean he lacks discernment about the things of God in every way, shape or form? Not necessarily. As I said, I know Christians who have the basics down pat and love Christ and serve Him faithfully, but don't really have a clue when it comes to Bible prophecy. Do you just completely discount their loyalty to Christ because of their false interpretation of Daniel 9:24-27? They are ignorant, not acting in willful rebellion against the word of God. Is there no grace and mercy in your beliefs?

As for the thief on the cross, he was repentant, and believed in Jesus, whereby his confidence of faith was revealed, when he said the OC. key word: "Remember" me when you come into your kingdom".
Malachi 3:16.
You might want to consider that he was the first martyr who died in faith, under the NC. of Christ's Kingdom.

Are you suggesting that people like David Jeremiah are not repentant of their sins? Who are you to say that? Do they purposely misinterpret Daniel 9:24-27? I don't believe so. But, you act like they do.

 

[Earburner]

I was completely calm when saying that. I could not see how what you were saying had anything to do with what I said.

Okay! WE were focused, and do agree on the 70th week being fulfilled 100% by Jesus.
So, I gave the example of the "DR.", who is not a "babe" in Christ.
I don't know about you, but I'm sure not going to trust a medical "Dr" who is a "babe" in open heart surgery, with their medical diagnosis for me to have open heart surgery by that Dr.

So then, as for the Dr. David Jeremiah, and his teaching about the "cutting off" of the 70th week, and attaching those 7 years (of Christ's ministry), to the end of time, they have formed their false concept of a "7 year Great tribulation". He has been teaching that false belief for many years.

Now, because we both do know the truth about the 70th week, by the Holy Spirit, we can truthfully say that the "Dr." is not teaching by the authority of the Holy Spirit, but rather by that which is fabricated through "the wisdom of men".
Without "batting an eye", we are safe to conclude that the "Dr." is a "false prophet".

Jesus, through Paul, emphatically tells us that your/our faith should NOT STAND in the wisdom of men, but rather in the power (authority) of God's Holy Spirit. 1 Cor. 2:5

Well, we need to end this discussion soon then since neither of us are seeing what the other is saying. It's becoming a waste of time.

Nothing about God's word is a waste of time, for correct understanding. Remember, through the Apostles, Jesus was speaking through them in the latter half of his 7 year ministry.

You are saying you think he is not a Christian? In terms of Bible prophecy, I would consider him a "babe in Christ" in terms of his low level of discernment when it comes to Bible prophecy, but he is probably a more mature Christian in other ways. I don't know everything that he believes.

I am no judge of who is wheat and who is a tare, but I do know that God is going to send them strong delusion to believe a LIE.
You may not like or agree with my discernment in the following, but you should know that the biblical context is in the plural.
2 Thes. 2
[3] Let no man [plural] deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away [plural] first [from faith], and that [the] -TR Greek] man of sin [the natural man-plural] be revealed, the son of perdition [aka the natural man];
[4] Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he [plural] as God sitteth in the [potential] temple of God [man's temporary flesh], shewing himself that he [the natural man, the man of sin, the son of perdition-destruction-plural] is God.
[5] Remember ye not, that, when I [Jesus] was yet with you, I told you these things? [Parable of the strong man]

[6] And now ye know what withholdeth [the preaching of the gospel, during the Age of God's Grace] that he [satan] might be revealed in his time.
[7] For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
[8] And then shall that [the]-TRG] W wicked [plural] be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness [aka flaming fire] of his coming:
[9] Even him [those also], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
[10] And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they RECEIVED NOT the love of the truth [who is Jesus Himself], that they might be saved.
[11] And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
[12] That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

I am no judge, but Christ's words in ALL the NT shall judge all.
Anyone can be repentant of their sins (metanoia)- to change one's own mind. We often repent towards each other.
But, God requires that we be repentant towards Him (metanoeo)- to have "another" mind.

 Edit:
Now, as to Jesus speaking through Paul about "the son of perdition [destruction]", then we should know that Judas Iscariot was not going to be the only one, being that of many.
2 Thes. 1:7-10
[7] And to you who are troubled rest with us, WHEN the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
[8] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[9] Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
[10] WHEN he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
Luke 17:28-30
[28] Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
[29] But the same [24 hour] day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
[30] Even thus shall it be in the [24 hour] day WHEN the Son of man is revealed [in flaming fire].

In other words, in the Day of Jesus fiery return, it will be a simultaneous event of destruction/perdition for all the unsaved, but redemption for all who ARE SEALED by God's Holy Spirit.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Okay! WE were focused, and do agree on the 70th week being fulfilled 100% by Jesus.
So, I gave the example of the "DR.", who is not a "babe" in Christ.
I don't know about you, but I'm sure not going to trust a medical "Dr" who is a "babe" in open heart surgery, with their medical diagnosis for me to have open heart surgery by that Dr.

So then, as for the Dr. David Jeremiah, and his teaching about the "cutting off" of the 70th week, and attaching those 7 years (of Christ's ministry), to the end of time, they have formed their false concept of a "7 year Great tribulation", he has been teaching that false belief for many years.

Now, because we both do know the truth about the 70th week, by the Holy Spirit, we can truthfully say that the "Dr." is not teaching by the authority of the Holy Spirit, but rather by that which is fabricated through "the wisdom of men".
Without "batting an eye", we are safe to conclude that the "Dr." is a "false prophet".

Jesus, through Paul, emphatically tells us that your/our faith should NOT STAND in the wisdom of men, but rather in the power (authority) of God's Holy Spirit. 1 Cor. 2:5



Nothing about God's word is a waste of time, for correct understanding. Remember, through the Apostles, Jesus was speaking through them in the latter half of his 7 year ministry.

I am no judge of who is wheat and who is a tare, but I do know that God is going to send strong delusion to believe a LIE.
You may not like or agree with my discernment in the following, but you should know that the biblical context is in the plural.
2 Thes. 2
[3] Let no man [plural] deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away [plural] first [from faith], and that [the] -TR Greek] man of sin [the natural man-plural] be revealed, the son of perdition [aka the natural man];
[4] Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he [plural] as God sitteth in the [potential] temple of God [man's temporary flesh], shewing himself that he [the natural man, the man of sin, the son of perdition-destruction-plural] is God.
[5] Remember ye not, that, when I [Jesus] was yet with you, I told you these things? [Parable of the strong man]

[6] And now ye know what withholdeth [the preaching of the gospel, during the Age of God's Grace] that he [satan] might be revealed in his time.
[7] For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
[8] And then shall that [the]-TRG] W wicked [plural] be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness [aka flaming fire] of his coming:
[9] Even him [those also], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
[10] And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they RECEIVED NOT the love of the truth [who is Jesus Himself], that they might be saved.
[11] And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
[12] That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

I am no judge, but Christ's words in ALL the NT shall judge all.
Anyone can be repentant of their sins (metanoia)- to change one's own mind. We often repent towards each other.
But, God requires that we be repentant towards Him (metanoeo)- to have "another" mind.

 Edit:
Now, as to Jesus speaking through Paul about "the son of perdition [destruction]", then we should know that Judas Iscariot was not going to be the only one, being that of many.
2 Thes. 1:7-10
[7] And to you who are troubled rest with us, WHEN the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
[8] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[9] Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
[10] WHEN he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
Luke 17:28-30
[28] Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
[29] But the same [24 hour] day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
[30] Even thus shall it be in the [24 hour] day when the Son of man is revealed [in flaming fire].

In other words, in the Day of Jesus fiery return, it will be a simultaneous event of destruction/perdition for all the unsaved, but redemption for all who ARE SEALED by God's Holy Spirit.

I don't agree with your strange doctrine that requires people to go through a number of stages in order to be saved. Your doctrine doesn't allow for someone like the thief on the cross to be saved or anyone who dies before having enough time to go through the supposed stages that one has to go through to be saved. You say you are no judge at the same time you are judging people. I don't want any part of that. There is only one Judge and it is Jesus (John 5:22). Let Him do His job and stop trying to do it for Him. Thankfully, He has a lot more grace than you apparently do.

 

[MatthewG]

Is it not possible that both happened within the same contextual generation of that time when Jesus was walking around? The first 1400 years were filled with struggles until Yeshua came and made things right. The message went to the Jewish people first, included during Pentecost, and then you have Paul being trained by Yeshua, and then the Gentiles were gone too. Are not both happening within the same contextual generation of that period?

 

[Earburner]

I don't agree with your strange doctrine that requires people to go through a number of stages in order to be saved.

That's too bad, because God specifically gives two simple direct instructions of the 2 STAGES, of how we are FORGIVEN through faith in Christ, and how we are SEALED by the Holy Spirit unto the Day of Redemption.
You do know the scripture that is in support of those TWO stages. 2 Peter 1:1-12
[10] Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election  SURE: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
#1 Personally repentantant towards God, seeking to have ones sins forgiven through faith by the shed blood of Christ.
#2 Willingly, by faith, to "open the door" of our inner self will, and inviting/asking for Christ to personally dwell within us, thereby taking up residence within us, being sealed by His Holy Spirit, thus having the Character/Mind of His Person, aka "the divine nature".

Your doctrine doesn't allow for someone like the thief on the cross to be saved or anyone who dies before having enough time to go through the supposed stages that one has to go through to be saved.

Phooey!! I gave you explicit details of the repentant thief's inner conviction of FAITH, ASKING for Christ to "Remember" him.
Malachi 3:16. And that He DID!!

You say you are no judge at the same time you are judging people. I don't want any part of that. There is only one Judge and it is Jesus (John 5:22). Let Him do His job and stop trying to do it for Him. Thankfully, He has a lot more grace than you apparently do.

I guess, you have already JUDGED it, and me. Welcome to the club!!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Phooey!! I gave you explicit details of the repentant thief's inner conviction, ASKING for Christ to "Remember" him.
Malachi 3:16. And that He DID!!

He didn't have to go through your multi-stage process to be saved, so that disproves what you're saying about the supposed stages of salvation as far as I'm concerned. Phooey back to you.

 

[Earburner]

He didn't have to go through your multi-stage process to be saved, so that disproves what you're saying about the supposed stages of salvation as far as I'm concerned. Phooey back to you.

By your choice of words: "strange doctrine", "number of stages" and "mult-stage", you are intentionally being derogative towards the 2 requirements of God, for our salvation.
#1 He repented and believed in Jesus.
#2 He asked forJesus to "remember" him.

It is apparent that you don't understand the thief's conviction of living under the OC. Malachi 3:16.

[16] Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.
[17] And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.

Edit:
> BTW, verse 17 above, is one of those "mysterious", "secretive" words about Jesus to come in His mortal flesh.
And so, when did God begin making up His Jewels?
Yes indeed! It was on Pentecost, but only after the shedding of Christ's blood and after His death and resurrection. ONLY THEN, could it be that anyone of OC or NC., have the permanent indwelling of God's Holy Spirit.<

You should listen to the words he said to the other thief who was NOT repentant, just before death.
Luke 23
[39] And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
[40] But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
[41] And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
[42] And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
[43] And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
Edit: in case you didn't notice, after the thief's repentant words to Jesus, Jesus hadn't yet mortally died. Only after His death and by His shed Blood, was the thief able to enter/allowed into paradise with Jesus.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

By your choice of words: "strange doctrine", "number of stages" and "mult-stage", you are intentionally being derogative towards the 2 requirements of God, for our salvation.

No, I am not.

#1 He repented and believed in Jesus.
#2 He asked forJesus to "remember" him.

Yes. This shows that both things can be done at the same time. You seemed to be talking about a person first going through one stage for some amount of time and then going through another stage after that for some amount of time until they eventually are saved and they're not saved unless they go through that process. Is that not what you were saying? I'm telling you, man, you are hard to follow sometimes. That's a fact.

 

[Earburner]

No, I am not.


Yes. This shows that both things can be done at the same time. You seemed to be talking about a person first going through one stage for some amount of time and then going through another stage after that for some amount of time until they eventually are saved and they're not saved unless they go through that process. Is that not what you were saying? I'm telling you, man, you are hard to follow sometimes. That's a fact.

I have known people, and so do you, who spend their whole life, going to church, become members, and never talk about God or Jesus.
Oh yes, they DO talk about their Religion and what they are DOING**, not because they don't believe in the historical Jesus, but rather through their Baptism by water, they never mentally or spiritually followed through by personally asking for Jesus Himself to come into their life, to be Baptized by His Holy Spirit.
He made the "call"!! Now they have to follow through to either accept their "election", or reject and ignore it.
In other words,They NEVER "opened the door" of their inner self, to ASK/INVITE Him INTO THEIR LIFE, to be their Savior TO THEM. Rev. 3:20.
Please see my Edit in post 272

There are many professing Christians that only go to the point of having their sins forgiven, and that is as far as they go!

Jesus "knocks on their door for one reason": for them to invite Him into their life. If they do not open THEIR door, He doesn't crash THEIR door in!!
All of such are the "lukewarm"!!
Rom. 8:9 applies to them.

"MANY are called, but few chosen."
** Note: It's TRULY about the story of "Martha and Mary".

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I have known people, and so do you, who spend their whole life, going to church, become members, and never talk about God or Jesus.
Oh yes, they DO talk about their Religion and what they are DOING**, not because they don't believe in the historical Jesus, but rather through their Baptism by water, they never mentally or spiritually followed through by personally asking for Jesus Himself to come into their life, to be Baptized by His Holy Spirit.

Look. I fully understand this and never said otherwise. Did I? No, I did not. What I'm saying is that we can't make that kind of determination about people just because they misinterpret some Bible prophecy. Instead, we make that kind of determination by their actions. Are they claiming to have Jesus as their Lord while they do nothing to serve Him and live a sinful and worldly lifestyle? That would suggest they are not true believers. By their fruits/actions we will know them, right? Not by their understanding of Daniel 9. Okay? Understand? If you can't understand what I'm saying then I don't know what else to tell you.

 

[Earburner]

I'm telling you, man, you are hard to follow sometimes. That's a fact!

All of 1 Cor. ch. 2 will explain it for you.

 

[Earburner]

Look. I fully understand this and never said otherwise. Did I? No, I did not. What I'm saying is that we can't make that kind of determination about people just because they misinterpret some Bible prophecy. Instead, we make that kind of determination by their actions. Are they claiming to have Jesus as their Lord while they do nothing to serve Him and live a sinful and worldly lifestyle? That would suggest they are not true believers. By their fruits/actions we will know them, right? Not by their understanding of Daniel 9. Okay? Understand? If you can't understand what I'm saying then I don't know what else to tell you.

The 70 week prophecy is a serious prophecy, for right upto the consummation (end of time).

Because of false teaching about the 70 weeks, there are numerous false doctrines running rampant, especially about people being given "2nd chances for salvation" during the unscriptural, misinterpreted future 1000 years, of Christ ruling on the earth.

And the criteria on that Day of His return, will be: many will NOT HAVE on a "Wedding Garment"
Rom. 8:9 will immediately apply to them!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The 70 week prophecy is a serious prophecy, for right upto the consumption (end of time).

Did I say it's not a serious prophecy? No. My goodness. Do you believe that a person is required to have the correct interpretation of Daniel 9:24-27 in order to be saved?

Because of false teaching about the 70 weeks, there are numerous false doctrines running rampant, especially about people being given "2nd chances for salvation" during the unscrptural future 1000 years, of Christ ruling on the earth.

And the criteria on that Day of His return, will be: many will NOT HAVE on a "Wedding Garment"
Rom. 8:9 will immediately apply to them!

Actually, the false teaching about the 70 weeks is not used to support premil, but rather is used to try to support pretrib. So, it is used to teach a false doctrine that people will be given 2nd chances for salvation during a supposed future 7 year period of tribulation.

 

[Earburner]

Did I say it's not a serious prophecy? No. My goodness. Do you believe that a person is required to have the correct interpretation of Daniel 9:24-27 in order to be saved?


Actually, the false teaching about the 70 weeks is not used to support premil, but rather is used to try to support pretrib. So, it is used to teach a false doctrine that people will be given 2nd chances for salvation during a supposed future 7 year period of tribulation.

I know that you know. I am not trying to convince you about the 70 week prophecy. We both agree to the only truth about it.

Unfortunately billions have become corrupted, by a purposeful misapplication, of "cutting off" the 70th week, and then applying it to the end of time, as being a 7 year Great Tribulation,
That's a delusion to believe a lie.

Therefore, right here and now, is a good time to reveal the One truth about it, that Jesus fulfilled everything about those 7 years, so that OTHERS CAN KNOW.

NO! The belief of a future, literal 1000 year rule of Christ on earth is 100% fiction. That concept seriously believes that people will still be able to come to Christ for salvation.
That's a delusion to believe a lie!

Heb. 9[28] So Christ was once offered to bear** the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time **without sin [bearing sin no more] unto salvation.
Edit:
The Rapture,
The 7 year Great Tribulation, whether it is:
Pre-trib.,
Mid-trib.,
Post-trib.,
Pre-milleniium-on earth, or
Post-millenium-on earth,
It's ALL a delusion to believe a lie!

WHY??
It all stems from their corruption of the 7 year, 70th week, by "the wisdom of men".

And, it is God who is sending the strong delusion for them to believe a lie. 2 Thes. 2:11

> From the MW dictionary:

delusion​

noun​

de·lu·sion di-ˈlü-zhən​

dē-​

Synonyms of delusion​

1a: something that is falsely or delusively believed or propagated.

> From the Strongs: "delusion"-
Strong's Number - G4106
Greek: πλάνη
Transliteration: planē
Pronunciation: plan'-ay
Definition: Feminine of G4108 (as abstraction); objectively- fraudulence; subjectively- a straying from orthodoxy or piety: - deceit to deceive delusion error.
KJV Usage: error (7x), to deceive (1x), deceit (1x), delusion (1x).
Occurs: 10
In verses: 10

 

[Earburner]

Go ahead, go to the following thread for some delusional info of how (and we know why) others believe in the way that they do. All because they DON'T understand by the Holy Spirit, who the 7 years of the 70th week is all about.

A shorter 16-hour day for the 2nd half of the Tribulation?

I believe that on “Day One” of the 7 Year Tribulation Period two major astronomical events will occur: 1. The earth’s orbital speed will increase resulting in a return to the ancient 360 day calendar year. (7 yrs x 360 = 2520 days of Tribulation) 2. The moon’s orbital speed will slightly...

www.christianityboard.com

Remember, they who are of the world are deluded and deceived already.
Q. So then, who is it that CANNOT be deceived?
A. The VERY elect.
Mat. 24
[24] For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Edit:
Do you know why the VERY elect can't be deceived? They literally do have the Gift of God's Holy Spirit, and ARE NOT half way STOPPED on the road for the forgiveness of their sins!!

Yes, through faith in the blood of Christ, WE ARE ALL made to be holy, BUT for a Holy God, Who would take up permanent residence within us, We MUST OPEN THE DOOR, and ASK/invite him to come INTO our life.
Luke 11:13; Rev. 3:20.

Did you know, that as much as the sacrifice of Christ was for us all, it was equally necessary for God the Father.
Without the shed blood of Christ, God the Father could NEVER permanently dwell within us!!!

Are all here "born again", or are you only half way home, aka "half baked", stopped at the blood of Christ, and INCOMPLETE, playing around in "church-ianity"??
How incomplete?
Rom. 8[9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.