There are 2 tribulation periods, the “first” is to the Jews

[Davy]

View attachment 49138

Nope -- BOTH periods, 1260 days (solar calendar) and 42 months (Lunar calendar) represent the SAME LATTER 3.5 years PERIOD of the Daniel 9:27 "one week".

Those in Christ are 'children of the day'!

Those of Satan's host are 'children of the night'!

 

[Earburner]

From the decree issued first by Cyrus, then ratified by King Artaxerxes to the anointing of Christ at 27 years of age is 483 years. The final week of Christ’s earthly ministry is divided from the beginning of His earthly ministry to His cross is 3 ½ days, ends with His resurrection three days (from Fri to Sun) after that, which ushers in everlasting righteousness (eternal life) for whosoever believes the Gospel as it begins to be sent out from Christ’s Church unto all the nations of the earth. The final week of Daniel’s prophecy was fulfilled through Christ from His anointing to His resurrection, all that Daniel prophesied of Him was fulfilled.

I'm not here to "preach to the choir" of believers of the Amil, but rather to those of the Pre-mil understanding, which is a huge chunk of church-ianity of today.
Towards them I asked the question:
"But, the question is: where is the 70th week?
It's a mystery.
Though you do know this, it is for others who disagree, that I am writing it again."

In my post #225, I said the same as you, but in a different way for one reason: I didn't go through the Artaxerxes "math mill", because there are those, and there are many, who interpret the words "cut off" as meaning the 70th week of 7 years was "cut off" by God, who then reattaches it to the end of time. Where did you think the false concept of their belief came from, for a "seven year tribulation"?
Now you know!
Here is one of the many of their false teachers:

Decoding Daniel’s Seventy-Weeks Prophecy

Daniel’s Seventy-Weeks prophecy contains vital information for understanding end-time events. Explore this ancient revelation with Dr. David Jeremiah.

davidjeremiah.blog

Edit:
Do you now see, that Christians who are falling for anything of a pretrib rapture, seven year tribulation, and/or a Premil KoG on earth, expecting a Gog&Magog event, are very far off course?

 

[Earburner]

Nope -- BOTH periods, 1260 days (solar calendar) and 42 months (Lunar calendar) represent the SAME LATTER 3.5 years PERIOD of the Daniel 9:27 "one week".

Those in Christ are 'children of the day'!

Those of Satan's host are 'children of the night'!

Unfortunately, both of you are wrong and far off track.
Though you both may not be made ready to hear this, I will say it anyways.
The "two anointed ones" were the "joint ministry" of John the Baptist (6 mos.) and Jesus (3 yrs.) Zech. 4:14.
So then, there are no literal human "two witnesses" to come in the future.

However, in what "Dougg" ref. In post #240, he may be correct in showing that God is going to allow the same length of time to Satan, as he (satan) did for "the two witnesses" of John and Jesus, which is 3.5 years (42 mos.). Edit: I see it as he does, because the same thought came to me a little over a year ago.

 

[Davy]

Unfortunately, both of you are wrong and far off track.
Though you both may not be made ready to hear this, I will say it anyways.
The "two anointed ones" were the "joint ministry" of John the Baptist (6 mos.) and Jesus (3 yrs.) Zech. 4:14.
So then, there are no literal human "two witnesses" to come in the future.

However, in what "Dougg" ref. In post #240, he may be correct in showing that God is going to allow the same length of time to Satan, as he (satan) did for "the two witnesses" of John and Jesus, which is 3.5 years (42 mos.). Edit: I see it as he does, because the same thought came to me a little over a year ago.

I don't mind hearing that, but I also don't mind knowing that is a false idea, and is very easy to disprove.

The events from Revelation 9:12 through Revelation 11:13, all occur within the 6th Trumpet and 2nd Woe period. (the Rev.10 chapter is parenthetical, a break with giving a detail showing it's all over by the 7th Trumpet).

Jesus comes on the 7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe, per Rev.11:13 forward.

What this does... is reveal beyond all doubt, the "two witnesses" appear and prophesy in Jerusalem in the LAST GENERATION on earth that will 'see' Jesus' future 2nd coming.

 

[Earburner]

I don't mind hearing that, but I also don't mind knowing that is a false idea, and is very easy to disprove.

The events from Revelation 9:12 through Revelation 11:13, all occur within the 6th Trumpet and 2nd Woe period. (the Rev.10 chapter is parenthetical, a break with giving a detail showing it's all over by the 7th Trumpet).

Jesus comes on the 7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe, per Rev.11:13 forward.

What this does... is reveal beyond all doubt, the "two witnesses" appear and prophesy in Jerusalem in the LAST GENERATION on earth that will 'see' Jesus' future 2nd coming.

Many have not figured it out that Rev. 1 says that the Revelation came from God the Father, to Jesus, then His angel, who gave it to John in a series of visions, that didn't all come to him in one sitting. Who then had to hand write it all down, and then give it to the Seven churches.

So then, let's Look at Isa. 55:8-9, and get it clear in our limited human minds of "linear thinking", that God's thoughts are not like our thoughts, nor are His ways like our ways.

With God living in His Eternity, there is no such thing as TIME, except for what He makes of it, with our 24 hours of Day and Night etc. Therefore, He always thinks in the Past, Present and Future all at the SAME time, and as a result does speak accordingly.

Are all things in Revelation chronological? With our linear thinking, WE WANT it to be so,......but it's NOT!!

So then, not all of Revelation is Future.
In fact, much of it is now in the Past. Some of it is Present, always moving towards the future. But now we realize that the future is 2,024 years far less, than when it began with Jesus, thus having limited time left.

So, even in that, of what could be left for time, in God's Age of Grace, God says that "those days shall be shortened".
Why??
BECAUSE, man now has the power to destroy every living thing on the Earth.
Mat. 24
[22] And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh [animals included] be saved [spared]: but for the elect's sake [born again Christians] those days  SHALL be shortened.

Heb. 10
[23] Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)
[24] And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
[25] Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

 

[Davy]

Many have not figured it out that Rev. 1 says that the Revelation came from God the Father, to Jesus, then His angel, who gave it to John in a series of visions, that didn't all come to him in one sitting. Who then had to hand write all down, and then give it to the Seven churches.

Irrelevant to my previous post. John had already been shown about the last 3 Trumpets each having a Woe tied to them (Rev.8:13). And since Jesus' future return is shown starting on the 7th Trumpet - 3rd and final Woe per Rev.11:13 forward, that means the events just prior... to that happen on the 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe period. So that is not debatable.

So then, let's Look at Isa. 55:8-9, and get it clear in our limited human minds of "linear thinking", that God's thoughts are not like our thoughts, nor are His ways like our ways.

With God living in His Eternity, there is no such thing as TIME, except for what He makes of it, with our 24 hours of Day and Night etc. Therefore, He always thinks in the Past, Present and Future all at the SAME time, and as a result does speak accordingly.

Are all things in Revelation chronological? With our linear thinking, WE WANT it to be so,......but it's NOT!!

That's still irrelevant to my previous post.

I agree that not everything written in Christ's Revelation is chronological. Doesn't mean the last 3 Trumpet/Woe periods are not chronological, for they are. Because they are emphasized, it means the Church is to pay special... attention to them about the 'end'.

So then, not all of Revelation is Future.
In fact, much of it is now in the Past. Some of it is Present, always moving towards the future. But now we realize that the future is 2,024 years far less, than when it began with Jesus, thus having limited time left.

That above kind of thinking that "much of it is now in the Past" is totally UNTRUE, not Biblical.

Even Christ's 7 Messages to the 7 Churches are still... in effect for today's Churches. They serve today as measuring sticks to show what kind... of Church one is in, even though they were first given by Christ to 7 physical geographical Churches in Asia Minor in John's time.

Men's false doctrine called PRETERISM holds the erroneous idea that most of Christ's Book of Revelation is PAST history, when it is not. I was raised in that kind of mainstream church system, so I know it well, and realized how they strayed when God gave me the Holy Spirit urge to study His Word for myself.

So, even in that, of what could be left for time, in God's Age of Grace, God says that "those days shall be shortened".
Why??
BECAUSE, man now has the power to destroy every living thing on the Earth.
Mat. 24
[22] And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh [animals included] be saved [spared]: but for the elect's sake [born again Christians] those days  SHALL be shortened.

Heb. 10
[23] Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)
[24] And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
[25] Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

Still irrelevant to my previous post.

 

[rwb]

I'm not here to "preach to the choir" of believers of the Amil, but rather to those of the Pre-mil understanding, which is a huge chunk of church-ianity of today.
Towards them I asked the question:
"But, the question is: where is the 70th week?
It's a mystery.
Though you do know this, it is for others who disagree, that I am writing it again."

In my post #225, I said the same as you, but in a different way for one reason: I didn't go through the Artaxerxes "math mill", because there are those, and there are many, who interpret the words "cut off" as meaning the 70th week of 7 years was "cut off" by God, who then reattaches it to the end of time. Where did you think the false concept of their belief came from, for a "seven year tribulation"?
Now you know!
Here is one of the many of their false teachers:

Decoding Daniel’s Seventy-Weeks Prophecy

Daniel’s Seventy-Weeks prophecy contains vital information for understanding end-time events. Explore this ancient revelation with Dr. David Jeremiah.

davidjeremiah.blog

Edit:
Do you now see that Christians, who are falling for anything of a pretrib rapture, seven year tribulation, and/or a Premil KoG on earth, expecting a Gog&Magog event, are very far off course?

I believe the 'mystery' that had been hidden, but now since Christ made known to mankind of faith is not the prophesy of Daniel's seventy weeks or the timing for the coming of Messiah. I believe what was hidden from Old is that Gentiles too would have access to the Kingdom of God and that the coming fullness of the Gentiles of faith being grafted into Christ (Good Seed) is how the 'Israel of God' shall be saved. And when the fulness of Gentiles have been saved, the seventh trumpet will begin to sound that time, symbolized a thousand years, given the Church for building the spiritual Kingdom of God in haven shall be finished. The only time remaining after that is Satan's little season during which the saints (both those who have died & those still alive) will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air, and the fire of God shall come down from heaven to destroy every living, breathing thing still on this earth.

 

[Earburner]

That above kind of thinking that "much of it is now in the Past" is totally UNTRUE, not Biblical.

Even Christ's 7 Messages to the 7 Churches are still... in effect for today's Churches. They serve today as measuring sticks to show what kind... of Church one is in, even though they were first given by Christ to 7 physical geographical Churches in Asia Minor in John's time.

Oh, but it is true! You just proved it. But you did not "hear by His Spirit" that God's words CAN MEAN Past, Present and Future, because He speaks from His Eternity
.

Men's false doctrine called PRETERISM holds the erroneous idea that most of Christ's Book of Revelation is PAST history, when it is not. I was raised in that kind of mainstream church system, so I know it well, and realized how they strayed when God gave me the Holy Spirit urge to study His Word for myself.

Do you think that you are the only one here, that has left "the wisdom of men" in "church-ianity"?? 1 Cor. 2:5.

Again, you are not hearing "the mind of Christ" about the past, present and future, concerning His thoughts and His ways.
He thinks in all three realms, ALL AT THE SAME TIME. HIS words in Revelation, is definitely by that concept. Again Isa. 55:8-9

When I say "earth" as our dwelling place, we see it as a planet.
However, when God sees "earth", as His dwelling place "whereIN dwells [His] righteousness", are His "thoughts" about the planet earth that is made New, or are His "thoughts" about [His] righteousness dwelling "IN our earthen vessels", that will be made New? 2 Cor. 4:7.

Could it be, that WE ourselves, who are of faith, ARE God's NEW earth, and Jesus Himself is NOW our New Heaven. That all depends on how God thinks, and NOT US.

So then, we all should, and must ask: How does God mean "in earth"?
Matt.6
[10] Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
Matt.28
[18] And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Luke.11
[2] And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.

If God means "earth" to be as it is described in 2 Cor. 4:7, then in each generation past, present and future, His will has, is and shall prevail for our Salvation, until the Day of Jesus' Glorious return from the Eternity of Heaven.

To be in the KoG, is to be in Jesus; to be in Jesus, is to be in the KoG.
Luke 17
[20] And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

 

[Earburner]

I believe the 'mystery' that had been hidden, but now since Christ made known to mankind of faith is not the prophesy of Daniel's seventy weeks or the timing for the coming of Messiah. I believe what was hidden from Old is that Gentiles too would have access to the Kingdom of God and that the coming fullness of the Gentiles of faith being grafted into Christ (Good Seed) is how the 'Israel of God' shall be saved. And when the fulness of Gentiles have been saved, the seventh trumpet will begin to sound that time, symbolized a thousand years, given the Church for building the spiritual Kingdom of God in haven shall be finished. The only time remaining after that is Satan's little season during which the saints (both those who have died & those still alive) will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air, and the fire of God shall come down from heaven to destroy every living, breathing thing still on this earth.

Maybe verse 8 in 1 Cor. 2:5-10 will help you to know that the mystery of the 1st coming of Jesus, was indeed "kept secret"** from the world, prior to His appearance.
1 Cor.
[5] That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
[6] Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
[7] But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom [Jesus, THE Truth], which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
[8] Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
[9] But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
[10] But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

** Note: Rom. 16
[25] Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

Concerning ALL OT prophecies about Jesus:
Ever since Jesus had come in the flesh, through the Gift of His Holy Spirit, we now have His understanding [His mind] of how to FIND HIM in the OT scriptures, including and especially the 70 weeks in Daniel.
John 5
[39] Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Please see my post #237 and 238, and you will understand how it is that many professing Christians foolishly believe that the 70th week was "cut off" by God., and will be reattached to the end times.

I'm well aware of that already. I just have never heard of anyone believing He was cut off in the 63rd week.

BTW, many Christians need to understand the truth of the 70th week, of which we DO understand and KNOW!! Many are severely duped by false teaching by church-ianity.

Yes, I am well aware of that.

Instead of writing them off, saying "Let's agree to disagree", try giving some help for their understanding, by revealing and sharing the "thinking process" of the Holy Spirit within you about Christ's completion of the 70th week.

I have done that MANY times and will continue to do so.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I apologize for sounding erradic to you in my delivery.
I shall now simplify it, according to Dan. 9:25-27
[25] Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem UNTO the Messiah the Prince shall be seven WEEKS [49 years]*, and threescore and two [62] weeks [434 years]: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
*Note: John 2[20] Then said the Jews, Forty and six [46] years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? [Do the math- Jesus was at the beginning of His ministry in the flesh for 3.5 years].

[26] And after threescore and two [62] weeks shall Messiah be cut off [crucified], but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
(^ hi-lited in Grey, because "the prince that shall come" is in 70AD, and is not part of the 70 week prophecy)..
[27] And he [Jesus] shall confirm the [New] covenant with many for 0NE week**: and in the midst of the week [by the sacrifice of himself] he [Jesus] shall cause the [Temple] sacrifice and the oblation to cease,...
**Note: a clue of Jesus' ministry in the flesh for 3.5 years, then after His resurection for the other 3.5 years (equalling ONE week).

Q. How many years are there in one prophetic week?
A. 7 years (7×1=7).

Q. How many years are there in 7 weeks?
A. 49 (7×7=49).

Q. How many years are there in 62 weeks?
A. 434 (7×62=434).

Q. How many years are there in 69 weeks?
A. 483 (7×69=483).

Q. When does the 70th week of 7 years take place?
A. After the end of the 69th week (483 years)

When we add the 70th week of 7 years to the 69 weeks of 483 years, the sum is 490 years. (7+483=490)

You know that I already know all of this, don't you? I can't imagine that you haven't seen any of my posts about this same subject or that you don't now what I believe. I'm pretty sure you do. No?

Herein lies the mystery:
According to the Gregorian calendar, the 490th year ended 3.5 years  AFTER Jesus' resurrection, which was at the end of the 70th week. That would be in the year of 3.5 AD.

Do you agree that Jesus was crucified in the midst of the 70th week?
If so, then good!

Of course I do.

Or do you see that He was "cut off" [crucified] AFTER the 62nd week (vs. 26)?

After the 62nd week which followed the first 7 weeks.

If so, then that is good also, because that would be absolutely true.
The 70th week is definitely well after 62 weeks.
< (Digest the little mystery of God's insertions, of how He kept things secret from the "wisdom of men").

You lost me again. What is the mystery exactly? You think it's a mystery that the 7 weeks come before the 62 weeks? If so, I just don't understand that.

So then, the 70th week came after the 69th week. Do you agree?

Of course. Goodness gracious.

Edit: Again, I apologize for sounding out of sorts to you, but please remember that there are Billions of professing Christians of "church-ianity" that have been and are being decieved into believing that the 70th week has been moved out into the far future, and therefore according to those who preach that lie and those who hear of it, they earnestly believe that the 70th week has not happened yet.

Thanks for listening,

No problem, but I'm still not seeing where you are seeing a mystery. But, anyway, I certainly do agree that many Christians have been deceived by the false teaching of their being a long gap between the end of the 69th week and beginning of the 70th week. There is no basis whatsoever for that belief. The thing that I often point out that is just absolutely ridiculous and unacceptable about that teaching is that they don't have Christ's death falling within any of the 70 weeks even though His death is what brought about the fulfillment of the six things listed in Daniel 9:24. For example, how can there be any reconciliation for iniquity apart from the blood of Christ? Impossible! So, how can His death not fall within the 70 weeks during which the six things listed in Daniel 9:24 needed to be accomplished? It has to. Yet, many Christians deny that, which is just mind boggling.

 

[rwb]

Maybe verse 8 in 1 Cor. 2:5-10 will help you to know that the mystery of the 1st coming of Jesus, was indeed "kept secret"** from the world, prior to His appearance.
1 Cor.
[5] That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
[6] Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
[7] But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom [Jesus, THE Truth], which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
[8] Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
[9] But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
[10] But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

This passage does not say the coming of Christ was kept secret. All the prophets foretell of His coming. The point Paul is making that none could know before the coming of Christ is how 'faith' is not of the wisdom or power of man, but of God. Had they known the wisdom of God would be made known through supernatural faith through the power of the Holy Spirit as the Gospel is proclaimed to all the nations of the world, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory who alone reveals this truth through His Spirit. Natural man cannot know the things of the Spirit of Christ, it must be revealed to them.

** Note: Rom. 16
[25] Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

The hidden mystery that faith would be shown to people from ALL nations is revealed through the Gospel proclaimed in the power of the Holy Spirit. The mystery of how faith shall be imputed to ALL who believe was not known in ages past but becomes manifest as the Gospel is sent even to Gentiles. Because salvation of the Lord since the advent of Christ is not to the Jew only but to Gentiles who believe also.

Romans 16:25-26 (KJV) Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Concerning ALL OT prophecies about Jesus:
Ever since Jesus had come in the flesh, through the Gift of His Holy Spirit, we now have His understanding [His mind] of how to FIND HIM in the OT scriptures, including and especially the 70 weeks in Daniel.
John 5
[39] Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Yes, this knowledge, unknown in ages past, from the advent of Christ is now available to ALL (whosoever) believes! No longer would the OT prophets be limited to one nation.

Romans 3:1-3 (KJV) What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

Romans 3:29-31 (KJV) Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

 

[Earburner]

You know that I already know all of this, don't you? I can't imagine that you haven't seen any of my posts about this same subject or that you don't now what I believe. I'm pretty sure you do. No?


Of course I do.


After the 62nd week which followed the first 7 weeks.


You lost me again. What is the mystery exactly? You think it's a mystery that the 7 weeks come before the 62 weeks? If so, I just don't understand that.


Of course. Goodness gracious.


No problem, but I'm still not seeing where you are seeing a mystery. But, anyway, I certainly do agree that many Christians have been deceived by the false teaching of their being a long gap between the end of the 69th week and beginning of the 70th week. There is no basis whatsoever for that belief. The thing that I often point out that is just absolutely ridiculous and unacceptable about that teaching is that they don't have Christ's death falling within any of the 70 weeks even though His death is what brought about the fulfillment of the six things listed in Daniel 9:24. For example, how can there be any reconciliation for iniquity apart from the blood of Christ? Impossible! So, how can His death not fall within the 70 weeks during which the six things listed in Daniel 9:24 needed to be accomplished? It has to. Yet, many Christians deny that, which is just mind boggling.

To your post #251, immediately above^:
Thank you for helping us to form a united front of agreement in the Lords Truth.

By the Truth of His Holy Spirit within us, we have visually established His Truth against the "flood of lies" (Rev. 12:15-26), by them who are spiritually blinded about the past event of the 70th week of 7 years.

As a result of their blindness, they falsely and maliciously claim that God "cut off" that 70th week, AFTER the 62 weeks, only to be reattached by God at the end of time.
Is this the "strong delusion", that God shall send, for them to believe a lie??
It very well might be!! 2 Thes. 2:11.

By you revealing all of our discussion here in post #251, it is confirmation against them, who promote a lieing fabrication, that they are indeed all liars, speaking against the literal truth of when the 70th week was fulfilled, by Jesus Himself, 2,024 years ago.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

To your post #251, immediately above^:
Thank you for helping us to form a united front of agreement in the Lords Truth.

Which I have done many times, as I said. You're welcome.

By the Truth of His Holy Spirit within us, we have visually established His Truth against the "flood of lies" (Rev. 12:15-26), by them who are spiritually blinded about the past event of the 70th week of 7 years.

As a result of their blindness, they falsely and maliciously claim that God "cut off" that 70th week, AFTER the 62 weeks, only to be reattached by God at the end of time.
Is this the "strong delusion", that God shall send, for them to believe a lie??
It very well might be!! 2 Thes. 2:11.

No! Goodness sakes. That verse relates to non-Christians! Don't turn one's interpretation of Daniel 9:24-27 into a salvation issue. We are saved by grace through faith in Christ and not by works, and not through having the correct interpretation of Daniel 9:24-27.

By you revealing all of our discussion here in post #251, it is confirmation against them, who promote a lieing fabrication, that they are indeed all liars, speaking against the literal truth of when the 70th week was fulfilled, by Jesus Himself, 2,024 years ago.

To lie is to purposely deny the truth. I'm not going to pretend like I'm the Judge and declare that people are purposely misinterpreting Daniel 9:24-27. I'd rather give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they are doing it by mistake out of ignorance. If anyone is doing that purposely then, for sure, God will deal with them.

 

[Earburner]

You lost me again. What is the mystery exactly? You think it's a mystery that the 7 weeks come before the 62 weeks? If so, I just don't understand that.

I wrote in #253:
"As a result of their blindness, they falsely
believe and maliciously claim that God "cut off" that 70th week, AFTER the 62 weeks, only to be reattached by God at the end of time.
Is this the "strong delusion", that God shall send, for them to believe a lie??
It very well might be!! 2 Thes. 2:11."

NOW you know, from what their concept of a 7 YEAR tribulation is coming from. They believe that God "cut off"/separated the 70th week, after the 62nd week, thus removing it from the chronology of the 69th week, and moved/attached that week far out into the future. Such a fabrication is religious insanity, and much of church-ianity has swallowed it, "hook line and sinker".
Edit:
Thanks for contributing in our most worthy discussion.
Being visible as it is, it may help by God's Holy Spirit, to persuade God's born again Saints, who may have become entwined in the "religious" lies of "church-ianity".

We can only pray, that they may escape from the error of their false fabrication, of a human "faith" brought on by "the wisdom of men". 1 Cor. 2:5

 

[Earburner]

Which I have done many times, as I said. You're welcome.


No! Goodness sakes. That verse relates to non-Christians! Don't turn one's interpretation of Daniel 9:24-27 into a salvation issue. We are saved by grace through faith in Christ and not by works, and not through having the correct interpretation of Daniel 9:24-27.


To lie is to purposely deny the truth. I'm not going to pretend like I'm the Judge and declare that people are purposely misinterpreting Daniel 9:24-27. I'd rather give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they are doing it by mistake out of ignorance. If anyone is doing that purposely then, for sure, God will deal with them.

To purposely deny the truth, is simply that they do not know Jesus personally through the Gift of God's Holy Spirit, of which was poured out/upon (Dan. 9:27; Acts 10:45) all of His Born Again Saints through faith.
And For THAT reason, in those scriptures, they don't see/discern, nor do they understand the mystery of Christ CONTAINED within the 70 weeks, and that of the 70th week.

Rom. 8:8-9 is the scripture that defines the sheep from the goats, aka the wheat from the tares.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I wrote in #253:
"As a result of their blindness, they falsely
believe and maliciously claim that God "cut off" that 70th week, AFTER the 62 weeks, only to be reattached by God at the end of time.
Is this the "strong delusion", that God shall send, for them to believe a lie??
It very well might be!! 2 Thes. 2:11."

You are taking 2 Thessalonians 2:11 out of context. I'm not going to join your effort to condemn saved people who are mistaken in their interpretation of Daniel 9:24-27. That verse is specifically about people who are not saved.

2 Thessalonians 2:9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

Can you see here how 2 Thess 2:11 is in relation to those who "refused to love the truth and so be saved"? Why are you trying to basically say that having the correct interpretation of Daniel 9:24-27 is a requirement for salvation, which is false? The truth that the people referenced there don't love and accept is the gospel of Jesus Christ, not the Bible passage of Daniel 9:24-27.

NOW you know, from what their concept of a 7 YEAR tribulation is coming from. They believe that God "cut off"/separated the 70th week, after the 62 week,

In essence, after the 69th week since they too believe the 7 weeks came prior to the 62 weeks.

thus removing it from the chronology of the 69th week, and moved/attached that week far out into the future. Such a fabrication is religious insanity, and much of church-ianity has swallowed it, "hook line and sinker".

Yes, I agree, but how does that mean they are not Christians as you imply by associating a verse about non-Christians (2 Thess 2:11) with them? I am even more disturbed by your judgmental attitude towards those fellow Christians than I am about their false interpretation of Daniel 9:24-27.

Edit:
Thanks for contributing in our most worthy discussion.
Being visible as it is, it may help by God's Holy Spirit, to persuade God's born again Saints, who may have become entwined in the "religious" lies of "church-ianity".

We can only pray, that they may escape from the error of their false fabrication, of a human "faith" brought on by "the wisdom of men". 1 Cor. 2:5

You say here that these people we're talking about are "born again Saints", so why do you associate a verse that is about people who are not born again saints to them?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

To purposely deny the truth, is simply that they do not know Jesus personally through the Gift of God's Holy Spirit, of which was poured out/upon (Dan. 9:27; Acts 10:45) all of His, Born Again Saints through faith.
And For THAT, in those scriptures, they don't see/discern, nor do they understand the mystery of Christ CONTAINED within the 70 weeks, and that of the 70th week.

Rom. 8:8-9 is the scripture that defines the sheep from the goats, aka the wheat from the tares.

I am not joining your mission to condemn fellow Christians to hell for misinterpreting Daniel 9:24-27. I know sincere Christians who have the basics of Christianity down pat. They love others, love God, and serve Christ faithfully in many ways. But, some of them are just clueless about endtimes doctrine. Where does scripture teach that having the correct end times doctrine is a determining factor in salvation? Nowhere.

Do not judge/condemn or you will be judged by the same measure you are judging them (Matthew 7:1-2). Salvation is by grace through faith and not by works (Eph 2:8-10). It's not by having the correct interpretation of Daniel 9:24-27.

 

[Earburner]

You are taking 2 Thessalonians 2:11 out of context. I'm not going to join your effort to condemn saved people who are mistaken in their interpretation of Daniel 9:24-27. That verse is specifically about people who are not saved.

Not so!
This is the definition and criteria of who IS NOT saved: Rom. 8:8-9; Rev. 3:14-20.

Rom. 8
[8] So then they that are in the flesh [only] cannot please God.
[9] But ye are not in the flesh [only], but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is NONE of his.

Rev. 3
[14] And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
[15] I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot [undecided/uncommitted]:
I would thou wert cold or hot [decidedly committed].

[16] So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth [reject you from my presence].
[17] Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked [unclothed by God's Holy Spirit]:

[18] I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment /"robes", that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes [spiritual vision] with eyesalve [the mind of Christ], that thou mayest see [spiritually].
[19] As many as I love, I rebuke [reprove] and chasten [teach]: be zealous therefore, and repent.

[20] Behold, I stand at the door [of our self will], and knock: if any man hear my voice, and OPEN the door, I will come INTO him, and will sup [live, commune] with him, and he with me.
[21] To him that overcometh [death] will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame [death], and am set down with my Father in his throne.
[22] He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

 

[Earburner]

Can you see here how 2 Thess 2:11 is in relation to those who "refused to love the truth and so be saved"? Why are you trying to basically say that having the correct interpretation of Daniel 9:24-27 is a requirement for salvation, which is false? The truth that the people referenced there don't love and accept is the gospel of Jesus Christ, not the Bible passage of Daniel 9:24-27.

2 Thes. 2[11] And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received NOT the love of the truth [Jesus Himself], that they might be saved.

> Did you know that there are more tares in the churches, than there are wheat??
This is what a "tare" looks like:
2 Tim. 2[5] Having a form of godliness, but denying the [Holy Spirit] power [indwelling] thereof: from such turn away.
In other words their "christian" experience is "self willed" through their flesh, and NOT by the Holy Spirit's indwelling will. They spend their whole time and/or life COPYING Jesus!! They have a human faith in Jesus (and not "the faith of Jesus"), through "the wisdom of men", which is where our faith should NOT stand!! 1 Cor. 2:5.

[11] And for this cause [for being Lukewarm] God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Edit:
And that lie is: they who are of "the wisdom of men", have "cut off" (their word is "amputate") the 70th week (the 7 years of Jesus' ministry), and attached it to the end of time, calling it the 7 year Great Tribulation, when there is no such literal segment of time, defined in all the KJV Bible.
Are there those who "have come out of great tribulation"? Indeed there has, but out of each generation.