What are the main doctrinal differences between Jehovah's Witnesses and mainstream Christianity?

[ReChoired]

Definitions such as these are inferred and nowhere in the Scripture is Jesus (the person) spoken of as being infinite.

Mat_11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.​

The Father is infinite. Follow the equative. The Son knoweth the infinite Father (all of Him).

In order for the Son to know (all of) the infinite Father, the Son must also be infinite.

The infinite Father knoweth the Son (all of Him), and no other finite being can as the Father can, which means the Son is also infinite, not finite.

Also, for the Father to be infinite, He must have always been the Father, lest He be evolutionary, mercurial.

For the Father to be infinite, the Son must also be infinite, having ever existed.

For the text to be inspired, and written like this, the Holy Ghost/Spirit must also be infinite to have witnessed this to know this to share this.

 

[face2face]

Mat_11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.​

I sure hope you are teachable ReChoired, we shall see!

As God’s own babe, all things are revealed to him John 3:35.

The Father loves the Son and has placed all things under his authority Jn 3:35.

Context is authority!!

And if you would consider the context which is the fourth time I've corrected you on this, you would know that All power is finally invested in him in Matthew 28:18

Then Jesus came up and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Mt 28:18.

And

1:20 This power he exercised in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms 1:21 far above every rule and authority and power and dominion and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come.

Eph 1:20–21.

So what does this teach you? Well, All Things (Authority) has been given to Jesus by His Father, none of which means he is God, only that God invested in him Authourity and Power which was clearly not previously his!

It's noted you didn't bold and underline "and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him"

The context (and audience) of the Lords Words is to counter the Pharisees who boasted their gifts were of God, handed down through successive generations, however the Lord's point is his was given to him direct! Can you see the implication?

So your point is rather void, if you also consider the same is said of his disciples!

10:14 “I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me—10:15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. Jn 10:14–15.

So yes, it is important to “be known unto God”

But if someone loves God, he is known by God 1 Cor 8:3.

This does not make me God ReChoired!

So the point is this; just as God gave knowledge and authority to Jesus His Son; Jesus in turn has and will do the same of his disciples!

Now they understand that everything you have given me comes from you, 17:8 because I have given them the words you have given me. They accepted them and really understand that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me. Jn 17:7–8.

Jesus is in exactly the same position as us only that he received the Word first!

And what of the last part of the verse you overlooked?

"and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him"

The Grk: “is willing to reveal”. RSV: “Chooses to reveal” - Jesus having comprehended the Father he will ‘reveal’ Him in the same spirit

I made known your name to them, and I will continue to make it known, so that the love you have loved me with may be in them, and I may be in them.” Jn 17:26.

So how does your equation work for you when it MUST include those of us who have been enlightened by the same Word?

Are you God also ReChoird?

The Father is infinite. Follow the equative. The Son knoweth the infinite Father (all of Him).

In order for the Son to know (all of) the infinite Father, the Son must also be infinite.

The infinte Father knoweth the Son (all of Him), and no other finite being can as the Father can, which means the Son is also infinite, not finite.

Also, for the Father to be infinite, He must have always been the Father, lest He be evolutionary, mercurial.

For the Father to be infinite, the Son must also be infinite, having ever existed.

Silly equation really.

F2F

 

[TheHC]

As one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, I state emphatically — and I speak for all of us — that Christ’s death is the only ransom for mankind! Only His death, and our displaying faith in its atoning value, is the basis for forgiveness of our sins, and for our opportunity to live again by means of the Resurrection!!

Yes, the wages of sin is death. Death is the price all humans pay for being sinful. (No torment.)

But that doesn’t make us live again!

Our opportunity / chance to live again, for both “the righteous and the unrighteous” (Acts 24:15), is only the resurrection, which is provided through Christ’s sacrifice!

 

[face2face]

As one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, I state emphatically — and I speak for all of us — that Christ’s death is the only ransom for mankind! Only His death, and our displaying faith in its atoning value, is the basis for forgiveness of our sins, and for our opportunity to live again by means of the Resurrection!!

Yes, the wages of sin is death. Death is the price all humans pay for being sinful. (No torment.)

But that doesn’t make us live again!

Our opportunity / chance to live again, for both “the righteous and the unrighteous” (Acts 24:15), is only the resurrection, which is provided through Christ’s sacrifice!

Liked your points

1. (No torment) - yes
2. only the resurrection - yes

@PS95 if the debt is paid, then there is no need for forgiveness...this/your model of atonement is in error, which is why I asked you what do you mean by "paid".

F2F

 

[TheHC]

I’m not sure what you mean…

@PS95 if the debt is paid, then there is no need for forgiveness...

We are imperfect, so we do need forgiveness, which only comes through faith in Jesus’ sacrifice.
But you know that…

I misunderstood you, right?

 

[face2face]

As one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, I state emphatically — and I speak for all of us — that Christ’s death is the only ransom for mankind! Only His death, and our displaying faith in its atoning value, is the basis for forgiveness of our sins, and for our opportunity to live again by means of the Resurrection!!

Yes, the wages of sin is death. Death is the price all humans pay for being sinful. (No torment.)

But that doesn’t make us live again!

Our opportunity / chance to live again, for both “the righteous and the unrighteous” (Acts 24:15), is only the resurrection, which is provided through Christ’s sacrifice!

Need to change this from a like to a love HC. I am not a JW but I would wholeheartedly agree with your post. I'm sure we would disagree on many other topics but I must say this one is essential for salvation!

F2F

 

[face2face]

I’m not sure what you mean…



We are imperfect, so we do need forgiveness, which only comes through faith in Jesus’ sacrifice.
But you know that…

I misunderstood you, right?

Yes, I included PS95 from another chat/thread. Christians here are obsessed with this idea of a ransom being paid / dept paid, as though its all been done...i.e. Christ has died "instead" of them etc.

Let me explain:-

This idea is flawed, for if Christ died "instead" of us, then we should not die (which we do); and if he paid the penalty naturally due us -- which is death -- he should not have risen (which he did).

So as you rightly say forgiveness is on the basis of faith - a right understanding of what God did in the body and life of His Son on that tree.

It's an involved subject to unpack one which would take some time and many posts. I've touched on the atonement a number of times, however most Christians do not want to talk about the Lords nature, or what God did in it.

F2F

 

[ReChoired]

I sure hope you are teachable ReChoired, we shall see!

Jesus was given authority by the Father, because He had given up such in taking on the "form of a servant", for before He was in "the form of God", and was "equal with God". No, the context is not just authority. It is about the knowing of the Father by the Son, and the Son by the Father, and the Holy Ghost knowing each, in infiniteness, that no created being can know as they do of one another. The Son sits on the same level with the Father in the eternal throne of Deity. No finite being ever could do this.

However, as you seem to believe that the Son came into existence in eternity past by some means of the Ancient of Days, that means you have an evolutionary 'god', a mercurial 'god', one that gains attributes over time, such as the attribute of "Father", which means you do not know that the other attributes of the Ancioent of Days are not also gained before it.

Additonally, no being that came into existence can pay for the sins of others of the infinite law of God, for their existence is not their own, but borrowed from one who gave it existence, and therefore are not their own. Only one equal with it, and as infinite, can.

Joh_8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

You have been faithfully warned. I leave you to what I have already shared.

 

[face2face]

Jesus was given authority by the Father, because He had given up such in taking on the "form of a servant", for before He was in "the form of God", and was "equal with God".

6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. Php 2:6–7.

The context is Son to Slave, not God to Slave!

Paul is speaking about the privileges he had as a Son he became the example of what Paul had previously written

2:3 Instead of being motivated by selfish ambition (mind) or vanity, each of you should, in humility (mind), be moved to treat one another as more important than yourself. Php 2:3.

Jesus having his Father as God could have used the benefits and privileges of a Son but choose in mind and thinking to become a servant!

You don't think Paul is talking about God becoming a man in nature here - ridiculous notions, nowhere taught in the Word. You have absolutely no context for this in the whole Epistle.

The context is having the mental disposition of a servant - it’s about the purpose in mind that we have in serving one another and Paul teaching the exact same of Christ. In mind, he became a servant though he were a Son.

No, the context is not just authority.

No, its Power given as well!

It is about the knowing of the Father by the Son, and the Son by the Father, and the Holy Ghost knowing each, in infiniteness, that no created being can know as they do of one another.

You are outside of the Inspired record with these views - it's important you know this ReChoired! Any limitations you place on God or Christ to uphold your dogma is not taken from His Word, but by men who have mused over and forced error upon it though in vain.

The Son sits on the same level with the Father in the eternal throne of Deity.

You are talking about the Glorified Son right? Be careful here ReChoired.

No finite being ever could do this.

You just read Revelation 1:18 - he was not finite when he ascended on High! I think you are seriously affected by manmade teachings.

However, as you seem to believe that the Son came into existence in eternity past by some means of the Ancient of Days, that means you have an evolutionary 'god', a mercurial 'god', one that gains attributes over time, such as the attribute of "Father", which means you do not know that the other attributes of the Ancioent of Days are not also gained before it.

Christ is the firstborn from the dead; first begotten of the Father and is the New Creation whose was made alive and given life and secure redemption for himself and others who believe in him.

12 he (Jesus) entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption. Heb 9:12.

Because he was redeemed by his own blood you can also! If you say no, then you have no High Priest who was taken from among men, and you are in your sins!

It's becoming clear you have a godman and not a propitiation for sins.

Additonally, no being that came into existence can pay for the sins of others of the infinite law of God, for their existence is not their own, but borrowed from one who gave it existence, and therefore are not their own. Only one equal with it, and as infinite, can.

Wow what a mouth full! And with no quotes to support.

Answer: A sinless man can! Which is why the grave could not hold him and why he was exalted and "given" a name which is above every name.

You have a lot to learn about the true Jesus Christ.

Joh_8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

You have been faithfully warned. I leave you to what I have already shared.

The warning is for all

F2F

 

[Wrangler]

The Father is infinite. Follow the equative. The Son knoweth the infinite Father (all of Him).

In order for the Son to know (all of) the infinite Father, the Son must also be infinite.

You know you are inserting words into the text, right?

Also, your premise is wrong. Everthing that exists is finite, including the universe and God. God is bounded by his attributes. Love by justice. Grace by Judgement Day.

 

[David in NJ]

As one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, I state emphatically — and I speak for all of us — that Christ’s death is the only ransom for mankind! Only His death, and our displaying faith in its atoning value, is the basis for forgiveness of our sins, and for our opportunity to live again by means of the Resurrection!!

Yes, the wages of sin is death. Death is the price all humans pay for being sinful. (No torment.)

But that doesn’t make us live again!

Our opportunity / chance to live again, for both “the righteous and the unrighteous” (Acts 24:15), is only the resurrection, which is provided through Christ’s sacrifice!

Good Morning,

Here is something that every jw must come to BEFORE they die in order to receive SALVATION = Phil 2:10

Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.
Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name,
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,
and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Liked your points

1. (No torment) - yes
2. only the resurrection - yes

@PS95 if the debt is paid, then there is no need for forgiveness...this/your model of atonement is in error, which is why I asked you what do you mean by "paid".

F2F

He who believes (has faith) is not condemned

he who does not believe (have faith) is condemned already.

not sure what people make this so hard. its not rocket science

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes, I included PS95 from another chat/thread. Christians here are obsessed with this idea of a ransom being paid / dept paid, as though its all been done...i.e. Christ has died "instead" of them etc.

Let me explain:-

This idea is flawed, for if Christ died "instead" of us, then we should not die (which we do); and if he paid the penalty naturally due us -- which is death -- he should not have risen (which he did).

So as you rightly say forgiveness is on the basis of faith - a right understanding of what God did in the body and life of His Son on that tree.

It's an involved subject to unpack one which would take some time and many posts. I've touched on the atonement a number of times, however most Christians do not want to talk about the Lords nature, or what God did in it.

F2F

this shows a poor understanding of the cross.

1. The wage of sin is death (its not physical death, if it was, everyone who physically died. paid for their own sins) it is spiritual death
2. Jesus died spiritually on the cross. (My God My God why have you forsaken me0 in fact, he said it is finished before he died physically. Meaning the sin debt was paid in full at this time (the greek word tettelesti literally means "paid in full" but the interpreter wrote it is finished, In either case, the sin debt was already paid.
3. Since the sin debt is paid, God is free to offer his salvation to everyone, But he will not force it on you. He wants you to recieve it. If you do, you will be saved, If you do not, you will remain condemned. and will suffer the second death.

physical death is not the penalty of sin, it is one of the many results of sin. or consequences of sin..

 

[Wrangler]

He who believes (has faith) is not condemned

he who does not believe (have faith) is condemned already.

not sure what people make this so hard. its not rocket science

It's the next level of detail that gets you. In a recent exchange with @Aunty Jane, she kept wanting to go to the next level of detail in the hopes of landing on something divisive, rather than be content with unity among JW and other Christians.

Everyone believes in something. What does one have to specifically believe to not be condemned? And what does that mean? And how does that fit into every imaginable context? At some point, deconstructionism achieves its goal of unworkable meaninglessness.

 

[David in NJ]

It's the next level of detail that gets you. In a recent exchange with @Aunty Jane, she kept wanting to go to the next level of detail in the hopes of landing on something divisive, rather than be content with unity among JW and other Christians.

Everyone believes in something. What does one have to specifically believe to not be condemned? And what does that mean? And how does that fit into every imaginable context? At some point, deconstructionism achieves its goal of unworkable meaninglessness.

And what does that mean?

JESUS is the WAY the TRUTH the LIFE

And how does that fit into every imaginable context?

All things were made through the WORD, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

And what does that mean?

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation

And how does that fit into every imaginable context?

For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers.
All things were created through Him and for Him.
And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.

Since CHRIST created ALL things and ALL things come from Him then CHRIST is the MEASURE of ALL things that God has declared GOOD for us.
Therefore, whoever and whatever is not found to be in CHRIST is not worthy of the Kingdom of Heaven

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It's the next level of detail that gets you. In a recent exchange with @Aunty Jane, she kept wanting to go to the next level of detail in the hopes of landing on something divisive, rather than be content with unity among JW and other Christians.

Everyone believes in something. What does one have to specifically believe to not be condemned? And what does that mean? And how does that fit into every imaginable context? At some point, deconstructionism achieves its goal of unworkable meaninglessness.

I think Jesus said it better than I could.

10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? 11 Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man [b]who is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should [c]not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.


18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

 

[Aunty Jane]

Good Morning,

Here is something that every jw must come to BEFORE they die in order to receive SALVATION = Phil 2:10

Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.
Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name,
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,
and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

As one so addressed, my reply is to appeal to the obvious translation error of this passage, which I have addressed many times before, but for the sake of new readers I will address it again…

Phil 2:5-10 does not say what is implied by this error in translation…here’s why….

The NASB and the ESV render this passage more correctly….

“Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”

Please note the glaring anomalies in the interpretation of this well used passage of Scripture..…

1) Jesus existed in God’s ”form”….so, what “form“ does God have? The Bible says that “God is a spirit” (John 4:24) so Jesus existed in spirit form in heaven before being “sent” by his Father in human form to redeem mankind.

2) He did NOT regard “equality with God a thing to be grasped”….the very thought that he could ever achieve equality with his Father was never in his mind or thoughts even though his abilities in performing miracle might make some assume that he was a god….and want to worship him. Jesus plainly told the devil that God alone is to be worshipped. (Luke 4:8)

This happened to Paul when he was bitten by the serpent and did not die (Acts 28:6)..…or on another occasion when Paul and Barnabas healed a man, the people wanted to worship them as gods. (Acts 14:8-14)

3) Being humble as a human servant of his Father, Jesus was “obedient to the point of death”…..so to whom was he obedient?
Is God obedient to his equal self? Can an immortal God die?

4) After successfully completing his mission, Jesus returned to his Father in heaven and was “highly exalted“….can God highly exalt himself? And can he thereafter give himself “a name that is above every name” when God (Yahweh) already has a name above all others as “the Most High over all the earth” (Psalm 83:18)

5) So, “in the name of Jesus every knee will bow” (“kamptō”)…..does this mean worship? Or is bowing an act of respect as it was in Bible times?

6) How does this declaration by Paul finish?
”every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father”….

Christ’s whole mission was to glorify his Father…not himself.

And addressing Christ as “Lord” is not calling him “God” but is addressing him with a title of respect, which is what the word “Lord” in Greek, conveys.
“kyrios” also means….

1. the owner; one who has control of the person, the master
2. in the state: the sovereign, prince, chief, the Roman emperor
3. is a title of honour expressive of respect and reverence, with which servants greet their master” (Strongs)

In his capacity as redeemer, Jesus was a “servant” of his God and Father. He was also the “Master” of his disciples, as their teacher.

So perhaps all in Christendom who read that erroneaou passage in their translations of the Bible, should think again and see what it actually says, rather than what they want it to say….?

 

[Aunty Jane]

It's the next level of detail that gets you. In a recent exchange with @Aunty Jane, she kept wanting to go to the next level of detail in the hopes of landing on something divisive, rather than be content with unity among JW and other Christians.

The “next level” is detail explaining why we hold our beliefs and can back them up with Scripture. (1 Peter 3:15) Evidence cannot be superficial or unsubstantiated. Lives are involved here….in a similar way to those to whom Noah preached. (Matt 24:37-39)

I know what you want to believe Wrangler, but unless you can convince others of your reasons for “believing” you are in no better position than the demons who also “believe…and shudder” (James 2:18-20)
belief is not blind….it has to be based on solid scriptural evidence, which is always in short supply in your ‘one liner’ responses. Scripture is the measuring rod for all beliefs. You have to know WHAT you believe, but more importantly WHY you believe it.

Everyone believes in something. What does one have to specifically believe to not be condemned? And what does that mean? And how does that fit into every imaginable context? At some point, deconstructionism achieves its goal of unworkable meaninglessness.

There you go….questions were used by Jesus in order to get his disciples thinking along correct lines of reasoning….deeper than superficial things that can appear to be something they are not. Scripture explains Scripture.
Did Jesus use questions to “deconstruct” anything but the lies that the Jewish people had been fed for centuries? Are the lies believed in Christendom any different? They must be deconstructed because the faulty foundation on which their faith is built, is going to collapse and be destroyed. Any who cling to the preferred lies, rather than the inconvenient truth, will have no excuse to believe in a different God to the one served by his Christ and his first century disciples.

We are not all one big happy family Wrangler, and the whole reason for the preaching assignment we were given is to declare the truth, and to give people an opportunity to hear that truth….only the “sheep” will respond, and they will be in the minority, such is the success of the devil’s persuasive propaganda. (Matt 7:13-14: 21-23)

It’s the devil who hates the details because of the truth they expose.

 

[face2face]

this shows a poor understanding of the cross.

1. The wage of sin is death (its not physical death, if it was, everyone who physically died. paid for their own sins) it is spiritual death

This is a case of you having to make it this way to fit your doctrines. Death is cessation of life otherwise its not death!

2. Jesus died spiritually on the cross. (My God My God why have you forsaken me0 in fact, he said it is finished before he died physically. Meaning the sin debt was paid in full at this time (the greek word tettelesti literally means "paid in full" but the interpreter wrote it is finished, In either case, the sin debt was already paid.

No, again if he didnt die you are still in your sins!

And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. 1 Corith 15:17

You believe he did completely and utterly die then he was not raised which means you are still in your sins!

You can't run from this Eternally

3. Since the sin debt is paid, God is free to offer his salvation to everyone, But he will not force it on you. He wants you to recieve it. If you do, you will be saved, If you do not, you will remain condemned. and will suffer the second death.

You overlook a very important principle Eternally

the forgiveness of our sins is "through the forbearance of God" (Rom. 3:25).

This was to demonstrate his righteousness, because God in his forbearance had passed over the sins previously committed. 3:26 This was also to demonstrate his righteousness in the present time, so that he would be just and the justifier of the one who lives because of Jesus’ faithfulness. Ro 3:25–26.

If you don't understand what this means and you need further explanation simply ask!

Physical death is not the penalty of sin, it is one of the many results of sin. or consequences of sin..

Cessation of life completely and utterly is a result of two things

1. Inherited mortality (i.e 1:3 concerning his Son who was a descendant of David with reference to the flesh Ro 1:3.)
2. Sin ( For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Ro 6:23.)

All note sin is personified (wages) a technique Paul uses a lot in his writings

F2F

As note did you see how Paul places the reference to the flesh in relation to the Power of the Gospel? It's about as important subject a Christian get understand! What God did through Jesus Christ!

 

[face2face]

As one so addressed, my reply is to appeal to the obvious translation error of this passage, which I have addressed many times before, but for the sake of new readers I will address it again…

Phil 2:5-10 does not say what is implied by this error in translation…here’s why….

The NASB and the ESV render this passage more correctly….

“Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”

Please note the glaring anomalies in the interpretation of this well used passage of Scripture..…

1) Jesus existed in God’s ”form”….so, what “form“ does God have? The Bible says that “God is a spirit” (John 4:24) so Jesus existed in spirit form in heaven before being “sent” by his Father in human form to redeem mankind.

No Aunty, this is speaking about Jesus being in the likeness of God. Paul is not talking about nature in these verses, at all, he is taking about the image and likeness of Jesus (character) and how that likeness could have allowed him to be the Son of God with power though he made himself a slave.

This is a case of Paul drawing on Genesis principles which he often does and it suggests that Christ’s being en morphē theou should be understood as a reference to Adam’s being (in) the image of God and not nature!

As soon as you apply your notions to verse 6 above you change the entire context of Paul's thoughts and you leave the Bible story.

F2F