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Yep. Adam ceased to have spiritual life the moment he sinned. And not only that. But all who are born or born having no life (spiritual) which is why they need born again.This is a case of you having to make it this way to fit your doctrines. Death is cessation of life otherwise its not death!
He did die. Actually he died twice on the cross.. And the second one, was of his own doing, If you read the text it says this.No, again if he didnt die you are still in your sins!
Yes. Why do you think Jesus allowed himself to die.. So he could PROVE to the world the father accepted his sacrifice in full. If jesus did not raise. everythign we do is futileAnd if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. 1 Corith 15:17
Dude. Your all over the place. you do not even understand what I said. this is for sure.You believe he did completely and utterly die then he was not raised which means you are still in your sins!
You can't run from this Eternally
well I would not ask you. You have not shown you can be a trustworthy person to ask spiritual things.You overlook a very important principle Eternally
the forgiveness of our sins is "through the forbearance of God" (Rom. 3:25).
This was to demonstrate his righteousness, because God in his forbearance had passed over the sins previously committed. 3:26 This was also to demonstrate his righteousness in the present time, so that he would be just and the justifier of the one who lives because of Jesus’ faithfulness. Ro 3:25–26.
If you don't understand what this means and you need further explanation simply ask!
See. You just proved it againCessation of life completely and utterly is a result of two things
1. Inherited mortality (i.e 1:3 concerning his Son who was a descendant of David with reference to the flesh Ro 1:3.)
2. Sin ( For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Ro 6:23.)
Yes, You should study more. Because you have missed the mark completely as to what it means to be born again, and why we need born again.All note sin is personified (wages) a technique Paul uses a lot in his writings
F2F
As note did you see how Paul places the reference to the flesh in relation to the Power of the Gospel? It's about as important subject a Christian get understand! What God did through Jesus Christ!
Quote please - I need to understand where you are getting this fromYep. Adam ceased to have spiritual life the moment he sinned. And not only that. But all who are born or born having no life (spiritual) which is why they need born again.
He did die. Actually he died twice on the cross.. And the second one, was of his own doing, If you read the text it says this.
John 19:30
So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.
Man did not kill Jesus, He chose what time he would "cease to live"
Yes. Why do you think Jesus allowed himself to die.. So he could PROVE to the world the father accepted his sacrifice in full. If jesus did not raise. everythign we do is futile
Here is what I think you believe.well I would not ask you. You have not shown you can be a trustworthy person to ask spiritual things.
But its ok, I understand exactly what it means..
See. You just proved it again
Physical death is not the wage of sin. Jesus told Nicodemus, he must be born again, why? When he is already alive? Because he was dead,
Jesus tells a group of people in John 5 that they have passed from death to life if they see and believe. Why? Because they were dead.
Paul said in eph that we who were dead, have been made alive.
So before you try to teach other. I would highly recommend you learn yourself.
Yes, You should study more. Because you have missed the mark completely as to what it means to be born again, and why we need born again.
You have taken the spiritual. and tried to make it physical. and in doing so. destroyed the gospel of Christ.
Well thats interesting, because for centuries now. people have been made alive spiritually, yet still suffer physical death.Spiritual death results in physical death…..
Not sure what this has to do with our conversation (the sons murder) but adam and eve both experienced spiritual death the moment they sinned. The things of God which they knew having walked with God for how many years? Became foolishness to them.Adam and his wife disobeyed God’s command, and suffered the stated penalty…..God did not stipulate the kind of “death” that would ensue, but they got to experience physical death for the first time when their firstborn murdered his brother in a premeditated act of jealous hatred….a product of the sin now inherent in their nature.
Oh I think they regained it.. Because being spiritually dead, yu have no contact with God. sin seperates you. God restored them, and he even taught them (and us) a lesson, the payment for sin, They experienced death for the first time when God killed an animal, and used that animals skin to cover their nakendess or their shame.. or in symbolic terms, their sin.Their spiritual death happened immediately, and caused a separation from God that they never regained. I am not sure if they ever knew the difference….
Oh I agree.but death has ruled as king in this world ever since…
Yes. But they were also spiritually alive, which in general terms just means they could enter Gods presence...yet neither spiritual or physical death were a part of God’s first purpose for mankind on this carefully prepared planet….he gave the first humans the mean to “live forever” in mortal flesh. (Gen 3:22-24)
And he did. Adam died spiritually the moment he sinned, Jesus died spiritually, we even know what hour, And what happened. He started screaming out in pain and agony, All the beating he took, he cried out not once, But the moment your and my sin was placed on his body. and the father punished him for those sins (spiritual death) jesus cried outIn understanding his role as “redeemer” we know that Christ had to die the same death as Adam…the “ransom” demanded an equivalent exchange….”a life for a life”….that is what atonement means….”at-one-ment”…one for one.
Jesus did not just cry to fulfill prophecy, He cried because his relationship with his father and the spirit was broken. He no longer for the first time in eternity had that bond, that he had from long before the world was even created. and at that moment, not only did he have all of our sin on his body, not only was he suffering the wrath of God. but all of his physical pain and suffering immediately came to the forfront, because the spirit whcih sustained him was no longer in him..As a perfect sinless man, Jesus had no sin to cause spiritual death. His words were prophetic and impossible to utter once there was no breath left in him. Jesus on his execution stake asked this question, not because he did not know why his God, had forsaken him, but in order that prophecy might be fulfilled. The prophecy here was found in Psalm 22:1, which was written by David, who was a prophetic type of the Lord Jesus Christ in many respects.
As he was about to take his last breath, he confidently stated that his mission was successfully completed. He had indeed paid for the redemption of the whole human race….but alas, not all would accept the terms upon which it was given.
This is not found in scripture.Yes..offered but never forced….God appointed Jesus to be the judge of all humankind….those on earth at the time of his return in that capacity, will answer to him…..and those who have paid the penalty for sin with their own death (the wages of sin is death) will be still offered redemption even if they “practiced vile things”, by means of a resurrection. (John 5:28-29) This is not “the first resurrection”, which applies only to God’s elect (anointed ones) who are specifically chosen for a role in the heavenly kingdom as “kings and priests” (Rev 20:6)
not sure what to think of this, will need to ponder on it for awhileThe general resurrection of the dead does not occur until all wickedness on earth is eliminated by the coming of God’s Kingdom, to rule mankind as God intended from the beginning….when God’s will is “done on earth as it is in heaven”. (Matt 6:9-10)
Physical death was not in God’s original purpose for mankind on this earth….it was only to enter man’s experience if he disobeyed the only negative command there was. Yet Adam and his wife were not the first rebels…..defection came from a disgruntled spirit creature who in his magnificence, desired worship for himself. He could not attain it from creatures who were his equal in power, but the newly created humans could serve him as a god even if it was by deception. He deliberately targeted the woman to tempt the man into disobedience and once that was accomplished….he had them! Sinful mankind have been his pawns ever since….some willingly, others by deception.
With rebellion now in both realms, God had some decisions to make….would he destroy the rebels and start again? Or use the rebellion as a object lesson to create precedents for all eternity to come so that no rebel could ever challenged his rightful Sovereignty again….he would allow the devil to create a world where all humans would be caught in the act of being themselves…..but he never left them without his guidance….it was up to them to implement his recommendations and gain the promised reward….it was never forced.
As difficult as it has been to endure the lessons…they will never be endured in vain…as this will settle once and for all time the rightful Sovereignty of our Creator over his own creation. (Matt 24:13)
I did in my last post. Please read it. You have to admit though. the way Adam and Eve acted after they sinned, does that look like something major did not take place that the things of God are now foolish to themQuote please - I need to understand where you are getting this from
Oh I see. You know me, and what everyone thinks. So you claim to be God? Because Only God is omniscient.I'm certain you don't believe this...I'm guessing you believe Jesus essence wafted off to Heaven only to be rejoined with his body 3 days later. This is not Bible teaching if its the case.
see, this is why I normally do not even respond to you. You think you know what others believe, and just like right here, You so far off based your not even close.Here is what I think you believe.
A person without the knowledge of Christ and his sin covering name is dead - they have no Spirit in them and when the die they corrupt in the grave and completely cease to exist. You would call this spiritual death.
If that person is alive to God through entering the sin covering name of Christ and His Spirit is in you then he / she is spiritually alive.
Issue: If you believe every person has an immortal soul, some divine essence of God, how does this play into your doctrinal belief?
F2F
God spoke directly to him after he sinned. That's not spiritual life?Adam ceased to have spiritual life the moment he sinned.
I missed this. Yet, you consider yourselves Christians, yes?We hold NO doctrinal beliefs in common with Christendom
Wow!What are the main doctrinal differences between Jehovah's Witnesses and mainstream" Churchianity?
EVERYTHING!
God asked Adam where he was. Did adam not try to hide?God spoke directly to him after he sinned. That's not spiritual life?
remember, at one time they believed only 144000 would get to heaven, They had to increase this number because they were losing members, because everyone looked and figured corectly, that if they were right, there is already 144000 so no one else could be acceptedI missed this. Yet, you consider yourselves Christians, yes?
Wow!
Not an answer to my question. Not sure what it has to do with the OP.God asked Adam where he was. Did adam not try to hide?
Again, not an answer to the question that they consider themselves Christian.at one time they believed only 144000 would get to heaven,
But it is an answer.Not an answer to my question. Not sure what it has to do with the OP.
It is a reply.But it is an answer.
An answer to the yes or no question would be yes or no.God spoke directly to him after he sinned. That's not spiritual life?
God asked Adam where he was. Did adam not try to hide?
Then my answer is no. Which I tried to explainIt is a reply.
An answer to the yes or no question would be yes or no.
Not true, God spoke to Israel while they were in the wilderness, There was no evidence of spiritual life.Yes, God talking to you indicates a spiritual life.
No it does not.No, even if God is directly talking to you, it does not mean you have a spiritual life.
People do it all the time, because many times a yes and no question can not be directly answered without a reason being given as to why.. it is leaves it open to interpretation.HINT: You cannot answer a question with a question.
Unfortunately, most believe the errors over truth.Even after His resurrection, the Christians referred to Jesus as God’s “Servant.” (In their prayer addressed to “Sovereign Lord” (who, according to them, wasn’t Jesus) at Acts 4:24-30, twice they referred to Jesus, as God’s “holy servant”!
This was after his resurrection, so he wasn’t “limited by His human nature”, which is the excuse so often given.
They did not worship Jesus; the “Sovereign Lord” they prayed to, was Jesus’ Father. No other.
And the following is tied to your statement, maybe it’ll enlighten you, too (I can only hope):
“Grasped”… now this is close; but “asserted” is not supported at Philippians 2:6…
And the ASV…
“Grasped”, again.
This is what the Greek verb used here, “har•pag’mon”, means: to grasp for, violently reach for, snatch, steal. Never does it mean to ‘hold onto’.
Hopefully y’all can see the application… it does not support any idea of Jesus’ Godship; it’s in agreement with the rest of the context: of Jesus being obedient, and God - His Father - exalting him “to a superior position.”
Grief, @Aunty Jane, @tigger2, & @Keiw … and @face2face … Some of these biased translators have really twisted it, haven’t they? (But context will usually straighten it out.)
Taking away the unique supreme ONEness that rightfully belongs solely to our Father, Jehovah. Exodus 20:2-4; Deut. 6:4
Unfortunately most believe the errors over truth.Even after His resurrection, the Christians referred to Jesus as God’s “Servant.” (In their prayer addressed to “Sovereign Lord” (who, according to them, wasn’t Jesus) at Acts 4:24-30, twice they referred to Jesus, as God’s “holy servant”!
This was after his resurrection, so he wasn’t “limited by His human nature”, which is the excuse so often given.
They did not worship Jesus; the “Sovereign Lord” they prayed to, was Jesus’ Father. No other.
And the following is tied to your statement, maybe it’ll enlighten you, too (I can only hope):
“Grasped”… now this is close; but “asserted” is not supported at Philippians 2:6…
And the ASV…
“Grasped”, again.
This is what the Greek verb used here, “har•pag’mon”, means: to grasp for, violently reach for, snatch, steal. Never does it mean to ‘hold onto’.
Hopefully y’all can see the application… it does not support any idea of Jesus’ Godship; it’s in agreement with the rest of the context: of Jesus being obedient, and God - His Father - exalting him “to a superior position.”
Grief, @Aunty Jane, @tigger2, & @Keiw … and @face2face … Some of these biased translators have really twisted it, haven’t they? (But context will usually straighten it out.)
Taking away the unique supreme ONEness that rightfully belongs solely to our Father, Jehovah. Exodus 20:2-4; Deut. 6:4
I've found Eternally's doctrine rather confusing as though they think in absolutes. The fact God provided a covering for sin taught them he would deal with sin. They continued to provide sacrifices and maintain a dependency on God. This is seen in the story of Cain and Abel.God spoke directly to him after he sinned. That's not spiritual life?
We don’t know how long Adam was alone without a mate whilst God had assigned him to name all the animals.....it was seeing all those creatures with a mate that caused Adam to wonder why he did not have one. It was then that God decided it was time to give Adam what he desired...”bone of his bone and flesh of his flesh”. And he was completely besotted by her....his perfect compliment...the one that made him complete.Not sure what this has to do with our conversation (the sons murder) but adam and eve both experienced spiritual death the moment they sinned. The things of God which they knew having walked with God for how many years? Became foolishness to them.
Eve blamed the serpent....but Adam actually blamed God for giving him the woman.Eternally Grateful said:They tried to hide from God. they forgot he was all knowing.
They tried to cover their nakedness They forgot God can see all things
they blame shifted by trying to blame each other. they forgot God knows all things and they could not get anything past him.
That is not what God told them at all......he said “in the day you eat from it you will surely die”.....Not only this, God told them both, in the moment you eat of this, you will die.
Well if they did not die in that moment, God is also now a liar. and he decieved them..
They were cut off from any personal contact with their Creator, but his purpose in connection with them would go ahead because he appointed a spokesman to speak in his place....the very same mediator who has always spoken for God....the one who became Jesus the man on earth. Every time God spoke directly to sinful humans, it was through his mediator.Oh I think they regained it.. Because being spiritually dead, yu have no contact with God. sin seperates you. God restored them, and he even taught them (and us) a lesson, the payment for sin, They experienced death for the first time when God killed an animal, and used that animals skin to cover their nakendess or their shame.. or in symbolic terms, their sin.
Yes, a very important prophesy indeed...but one shrouded in mystery until Jesus came and revealed its true meaning and suffered the “heel” wound from which God recovered him. The fatal head wound will not be administered until God has finished with the devil for good.But we have this promise, that although we are all dead in adam, In Christ, we can all be made alive. Jesus prety much gave the gospel right there in Gen 3: 15.. the first prophecy of what he would do to restore mankind to God
There is only one way for humans to receive forgiveness...and that was under God’s temporary arrangement of sacrifice to atone for sins. There is not one mention of Adam and his wife offering a sacrifice for their sin because there was no basis upon which to forgive them. They did not make a mistake....their sin was wilful and deliberate and therefore unforgivable. There was no sinful nature to blame.But they were also spiritually alive, which in general terms just means they could enter Gods presence..
You completely misunderstand the reason for Jesus last outcry.....if God’s protective spirit had not been withdrawn at that last moment, Jesus could not have died and offered his life for mankind.....Jesus felt that protection leave him to suffer the final part of the heel wound.....Adam died spiritually the moment he sinned, Jesus died spiritually, we even know what hour, And what happened. He started screaming out in pain and agony, All the beating he took, he cried out not once, But the moment your and my sin was placed on his body. and the father punished him for those sins (spiritual death) jesus cried out
“Gave up the ghost”....what a misleading expression that is.....there is no “ghost”...what Jesus gave up was his last “breath”....the one thing between life and death.After this was done, He asked for water. and gave up the ghost. saying in a fact, it is finished..
Oh dear, that paints a very different picture to the reality....he was a human being, suffering what any human would suffer under the same circumstances. He was badly beaten and his flesh torn and bleeding. Roman soldiers drove nails through his flesh, hands and feet....he had a thorny crown imbedded in his head, but prophesy was fulfilled because he died without having a single bone broken. The two men executed with him, both had their legs broken as it was customary to hasten death at the end of a long torture so that the bodies could be disposed of.Jesus did not just cry to fulfill prophecy, He cried because his relationship with his father and the spirit was broken. He no longer for the first time in eternity had that bond, that he had from long before the world was even created. and at that moment, not only did he have all of our sin on his body, not only was he suffering the wrath of God. but all of his physical pain and suffering immediately came to the forfront, because the spirit whcih sustained him was no longer in him..
The Bible argues with you.....sin’s wages is death.....so at death one has paid the penalty for sin. Christ’s sacrifice does indeed give all the dead a second chance. As Jesus said....This is not found in scripture.
Spiritual death is eternal. UInless in this lifetime you recieve the gift of salvation.
there is no second chance.
Please do....the Bible is one story from Genesis to Revelation.....what we lost in the beginning, Christ’s sacrifice brings back for us.....everlasting life in paradise on earth, ruled by the only righteous government that the human race has ever had.....this is something to look forward to, is it not? (Rev 21:2-4)not sure what to think of this, will need to ponder on it for awhile